2012 Fluence ze new to me.

heliguyheliguy

I collect my new to me 2012 Fluence ze tomorrow with 256 kilometers on the clock.
So new to this I don't even know what to ask..
Can you share any advise and or tips..
My commute is 92kms but I have access to 4 charge points near my destination.

Dexter1979

Did you do your commute before as part of your test drive? Is it 92km each way or return?

The lack of Fast Charger compatibility is an issue for travel beyond the range of a charge.

Was a Renault Zoe on PCP an option?

Bigus

Apparently as said above you can't fast charge a Fluence , are you aware of this ?

heliguyheliguy

It's 46 Kim's each way with 8 hours between legs. So I should be ok.
No I was not aware it could not fast charge what does that mean? can I still use the 22kw chargers as they seem to be most popular ones?

cros13

heliguyheliguy wrote: »

It's 46 Kim's each way with 8 hours between legs. So I should be ok.
No I was not aware it could not fast charge what does that mean? can I still use the 22kw chargers as they seem to be most popular ones?

You can connect to a 22kW chargepoint, but the Fluence will only take 3.6kW. A 0-100% charge will take 8 hours.

Most modern EVs can rapid charge at 50-100kW, giving the ability to charge from 0-80% in around 20 minutes. That's what allows us to do long journeys. The 22kW's see so little use ESB has stopped installing new ones and is exclusively installing rapid chargers.

The Fluence was designed for battery swapping stations to be built by the israeli company Better Place. They went bust and everyone realised battery swapping is a terrible idea and rapid charging is more than sufficient.

The Fluence hasn't been made since Better Place went belly up.
It's not a bad car per se. But compared to a 2011 Leaf or 2012 ZOE it's underpowered and a lot less practical.
The battery lease is a terrible millstone around it's neck and wipes out a lot of the savings. It's indefinite so it can make selling the car on very difficult and you will never own the battery.
It's also unnecessary considering modern EV batteries lose at worst 2% of capacity a year and come with 8 year warranties.

If you got a good deal (which for those 2012 Fluences means €4000) and you are replacing an ICE vehicle it's a perfectly fine vehicle for commuting or running around town.
You just can't do long journeys with it because of the lack of rapid charging and I'd be very wary of signing that battery lease.

TBH a 2nd hand Leaf is a better buy for your first EV, costs quite a lot more initially but you don't have a €70/month lease to pay, you can rapid charge, you have a solid resale value and full support from Nissan. They all still have a powertrain warranty too.
If they ever drop the mandatory battery lease I'd consider purchasing a Fluence as a runabout for my mum, my Dad has run my old 141 Leaf for the last 6 months so they have that for the longer journeys. I've made a couple of offers to dealers but Renault is still not allowing them to waive the battery lease.

Dexter1979

heliguyheliguy wrote: »

It's 46 Kim's each way with 8 hours between legs. So I should be ok.

Yes, you will be fine.

heliguyheliguy wrote: »

No I was not aware it could not fast charge what does that mean? can I still use the 22kw chargers as they seem to be most popular ones?

It means the car will take 6 - 8 hours to charge no matter where you plug in. This limits its use as a primary car but as a commuter car out makes sense. 96km should even be doable without charging at work.

Did you buy one without a battery lease?

heliguyheliguy

Dexter1979 wrote: »

Did you buy one without a battery lease?

Didn't know that was an option.


I to think the leaf is the better car but it's out of my price range for now.

Soarer

Did you get a full warranty, or is it the balance of the original 5 year one?

Dexter1979

heliguyheliguy wrote: »

Didn't know that was an option.

I think there are a few around without but unsure of how many. If you weren't offered it yours has a battery lease.

Did you even take it for a test drive considering you don't know about the lack of fast charging.

I never had the pleasure. It's meant to be a comfy car.

Roen

I test drove one back when they were first brought to the country.
Really liked it. Certainly didn't feel under powered.

sgalvin

Roen wrote: »

I test drove one back when they were first brought to the country.
Really liked it. Certainly didn't feel under powered.

I bought a 2012 about 2 weeks ago and am delighted with it. Parking sensors, satnav, heating timer, Bluetooth etc. Mine had a much lower mileage, it was nearly a shame to drive it! Have put 800km on since.

My round trip to work is 60km which uses 50% of battery with headlights on wipers as required and heat at 21 degC. Average speed is 50 km/h. I am not a martyr and don't like the cold and am not interested in making my life difficult.

It takes 4 hrs to recharge to full when I get home. The closest rapid charger to me is 25km away and is not on my way to work so a fast charge would be a feature but not really any benefit to me.

As a commuting car is absolutely perfect easy to drive, soft ride and pulls really well and can preheat in the morning.
On a damp road I went to overtake a couple of tractors gave it a bootful and got wheelspin which did catch me off guard. I had a leaf out for 3 days and don't remember it being majorly different.

Throttle response does seem easier to use, there is less regen but it is soother for it particularly in traffic.

Would highly recommend one as a commuter. I do travel to Dublin (275km) about 8 times/year which we go by petrol. I don't think it's a journey I'd want to attempt taking in 2 rapid charges with 3 young kids for the sake of €60.

I look at the cost of running a car as an ongoing cost whether leased or financed so it's an overall figure that really matters and for my use it made sense. Also free parking and charging in Cork city is a great bonus.

Best of luck with it but no one will even notice it's electric!

heliguyheliguy

Well I picked it up today lunchtime
It had 75% charge and a displayed range of 48 kms.
I plugged it in on Mark street and card validation failed (oh no what Have gotten myself into) so i called esb and very nice guy says he can't communicate with the station and suggested I try another, so i drove up to Merrion square and all went well, it said 2 hours to full charge so of i popped and back two hours later to fully charged but now displaying 68kms range wtf!
anyways away home i went and 50kms later at home i now have 45kms range. This will take some getting used to.
but its so quiet and nice to drive I love the single peddle driving, awesome.
Hopefully the range estimates will get better.

Btw, the the guy at esb said he would send someone to look at the mark street charger, but its still showing up on the app as working..

heliguyheliguy

heliguyheliguy wrote: »

I collect my new to me 2012 Fluence ze tomorrow with 256 kilometers on the clock.
So new to this I don't even know what to ask..
Can you share any advise and or tips..
My commute is 92kms but I have access to 4 charge points near my destination.

Congrats, any EV that replaces an ICE is always a good thing.

If you can charge at work then this should not be an issue over 8hr work day. Find out if you can get a work charge point installed.

You may have to pay for public charging next year but I think this for now is only for fast chargers, also check if you need to pay for parking as this could work out very expensive.

heliguyheliguy

sgalvin wrote: »

I bought a 2012 about 2 weeks ago and am delighted with it. Parking sensors, satnav, heating timer, Bluetooth etc. Mine had a much lower mileage, it was nearly a shame to drive it! Have put 800km on since.

My round trip to work is 60km which uses 50% of battery with headlights on wipers as required and heat at 21 degC. Average speed is 50 km/h. I am not a martyr and don't like the cold and am not interested in making my life difficult.

It takes 4 hrs to recharge to full when I get home. The closest rapid charger to me is 25km away and is not on my way to work so a fast charge would be a feature but not really any benefit to me.

As a commuting car is absolutely perfect easy to drive, soft ride and pulls really well and can preheat in the morning.
On a damp road I went to overtake a couple of tractors gave it a bootful and got wheelspin which did catch me off guard. I had a leaf out for 3 days and don't remember it being majorly different.

Throttle response does seem easier to use, there is less regen but it is soother for it particularly in traffic.

Would highly recommend one as a commuter. I do travel to Dublin (275km) about 8 times/year which we go by petrol. I don't think it's a journey I'd want to attempt taking in 2 rapid charges with 3 young kids for the sake of €60.

I look at the cost of running a car as an ongoing cost whether leased or financed so it's an overall figure that really matters and for my use it made sense. Also free parking and charging in Cork city is a great bonus.

Best of luck with it but no one will even notice it's electric!

Hi and its great to hear from another owner.
Do you mind if I ask a few questions.
how long did it take to get your cards from the esb and the renault services setup. how do you get it to preheat?

heliguyheliguy

Deleted User wrote: »

Congrats, any EV that replaces an ICE is always a good thing.

If you can charge at work then this should not be an issue over 8hr work day. Find out if you can get a work charge point installed.

You may have to pay for public charging next year but I think this for now is only for fast chargers, also check if you need to pay for parking as this could work out very expensive.

I have the use of a parking space so that's not a concern. but I will at least for now have to make use of on street charging.
I hope to put it on charge in the morning and move it to my space at lunch time.
time will tell if that works out, it would be ideal if I can get the range up to do the round trip without charging but ill make do if not. its still worth a bit of hassle not burn my way in and out of the city.

sgalvin

heliguyheliguy wrote: »

Well I picked it up today lunchtime
It had 75% charge and a displayed range of 48 kms.
I plugged it in on Mark street and card validation failed (oh no what Have gotten myself into) so i called esb and very nice guy says he can't communicate with the station and suggested I try another, so i drove up to Merrion square and all went well, it said 2 hours to full charge so of i popped and back two hours later to fully charged but now displaying 68kms range wtf!
anyways away home i went and 50kms later at home i now have 45kms range. This will take some getting used to.
but its so quiet and nice to drive I love the single peddle driving, awesome.
Hopefully the range estimates will get better.

Btw, the the guy at esb said he would send someone to look at the mark street charger, but its still showing up on the app as working..

Cycle through the menus with the right stalk to get to the kWh per 100km figure. Press and hold the top stalk button to reset.
Do the same with the trip recorder and the total kWh used.

It calculates an average over the last 200 km. Range will be bang on from then.
Mine was showing 300 kWh/100 km when I collected!

sgalvin

heliguyheliguy wrote: »

Hi and its great to hear from another owner.
Do you mind if I ask a few questions.
how long did it take to get your cards from the esb and the renault services setup. how do you get it to preheat?

I have a home charger so haven't contacted the esb yet.
Cycle through the menus with the car stopped and pick the advanced menu. You should see a 1 and a 2 times. These are adjusted by press and holding the top stalk button to edit a time. 1 is morning 2 is evening.
Before you turn off the motor on the heater is a button with a fan and numbers 1,2 on it. This cycles through preheat time1, time2 and off. Press until it has a one in the display. Turn off the key, plug in and go to bed.
Note it only works after the battery is fully charged so unless you charge at home it won't operate.

heliguyheliguy

sgalvin wrote: »

I have a home charger so haven't contacted the esb yet.
Cycle through the menus with the car stopped and pick the advanced menu. You should see a 1 and a 2 times. These are adjusted by press and holding the top stalk button to edit a time. 1 is morning 2 is evening.
Before you turn off the motor on the heater is a button with a fan and numbers 1,2 on it. This cycles through preheat time1, time2 and off. Press until it has a one in the display. Turn off the key, plug in and go to bed.
Note it only works after the battery is fully charged so unless you charge at home it won't operate.

I've reset the kw\100kms and the trips and the heater times. thank you.
I have ordered the home charger but will have to wait for that to be fitted.
For now I'm charging with the so called granny lead, battery is at 50% and saying 7 hours to full charge.

heliguyheliguy

Soarer wrote: »

Did you get a full warranty, or is it the balance of the original 5 year one?

just the balance.

heliguyheliguy

heliguyheliguy wrote: »

I have the use of a parking space so that's not a concern. but I will at least for now have to make use of on street charging.
I hope to put it on charge in the morning and move it to my space at lunch time.
time will tell if that works out, it would be ideal if I can get the range up to do the round trip without charging but ill make do if not. its still worth a bit of hassle not burn my way in and out of the city.

I'd say you will get away with it, you mention city driving, so will you see much speeds above 80 Kph ? The heater isn't as efficient as the heat pump in the mid to high spec 131+ Leaf but I would say it's within range if you're not driving a lot beyond 100 Kph in the coldest of weather.

You'd be surprised how much 1-2 hrs will get you on the charge point, and it will be better for the battery to keep it topped up rather than run it very low.

heliguyheliguy

Deleted User wrote: »

I'd say you will get away with it, you mention city driving, so will you see much speeds above 80 Kph ? The heater isn't as efficient as the heat pump in the mid to high spec 131+ Leaf but I would say it's within range if you're not driving a lot beyond 100 Kph in the coldest of weather.

You'd be surprised how much 1-2 hrs will get you on the charge point, and it will be better for the battery to keep it topped up rather than run it very low.

Its Navan to dublin city center so i pretty much see all types of driving.
the bulk of millage is at 80kph on the navan road, with a short burst Of 120kph from dunboyne to blanchardstown and then its pretty much stop and go into the city center.

heliguyheliguy

heliguyheliguy wrote: »

Its Navan to dublin city center so i pretty much see all types of driving.
the bulk of millage is at 80kph on the navan road, with a short burst Of 120kph from dunboyne to blanchardstown and then its pretty much stop and go into the city center.

Yeah no problem with charging , do see though if you can get a charge point installed at work.

Any backup plan if the charge point is ICE'd or in use ?

heliguyheliguy

Deleted User wrote: »

Yeah no problem with charging , do see though if you can get a charge point installed at work.

Any backup plan if the charge point is ICE'd or in use ?

There is about a dozen charge points around Merrion Sq, getting a power point near my parking space might be a plan b, I will have to look into that, it would also save me shuffling during the day.

heliguyheliguy

heliguyheliguy wrote: »

There is about a dozen charge points around Merrion Sq, getting a power point near my parking space might be a plan b, I will have to look into that, it would also save me shuffling during the day.

Yeah that's good, you'll have no problem with street charging, just 2 hrs will give you plenty of range and it's good to keep it topped up.

737max

how much did the fluence cost and how much monthly for lease on battery? are they doing deals on the few demo models which remain?

heliguyheliguy

737max wrote: »

how much did the fluence cost and how much monthly for lease on battery? are they doing deals on the few demo models which remain?

They are doing some great deals, but you'll have work on that yourself with the dealer.
The battery lease costs from 82 to 109 / month depending on millage.

unkel

I started a thread on a '12 Fluence ZE recently, so I am interested in these

heliguyheliguy wrote: »

They are doing some great deals, but you'll have work on that yourself with the dealer.

So you are not willing to share with us what you paid for it? Ah go on.

cros13 wrote: »

If you got a good deal (which for those 2012 Fluences means €4000)

€4k seems extraordinarily good value even for a vehicle with some severe limitations. Have you any personal experience of cars selling for this? I'd sure be interested if I could pick one up for around this money.

cros13

unkel wrote: »

€4k seems extraordinarily good value even for a vehicle with some severe limitations. Have you any personal experience of cars selling for this? I'd sure be interested if I could pick one up for around this money.

Yup, I know two people who got one recently. both from different Dublin Windsor dealers. One paid €4k and the paid €4.5.

The problem from my perspective is that battery lease. I thought it was less but €82/month is a lot of money.

Much rather go to the UK and pick up a Peugeot iOn, Citroen C-Zero or Mitsubishi iMiev for £5-6k with no battery lease and rapid charging.

unkel

Thing is I would need a 5 seater car at least a full size bigger than those 3. Even a Zoe would be on the small side, but possibly ok.

sgalvin

unkel wrote: »

Thing is I would need a 5 seater car at least a full size bigger than those 3. Even a Zoe would be on the small side, but possibly ok.

I had a clio estate and a captur for week each and a forward facing child seat and 2 booster seats was very tight. Ok for a holiday but not for everyday use. The Fluence is a bit wider and makes it a lot easier.

It's all down to whether you actually need quick charge and the value you place on being able to quick charge.

If you don't really need it they are very cheap for what they are and savings do buy a lot of battery leasing.

People have an aversion to renting/leasing things in general, houses etc.
Yes you don't own it in the end but you carry no risk in the interim.
If you do have a battery failure you don't actually have a choice who you buy a replacement from or what they charge you.

But when you buy any car you are already committing to tax insurance fuel/electricity service repairs out of warranty and of course significant depreciation which you pay throughout the time you own it. How it is sliced up or how often its paid doesn't really matter

unkel

Aye, €1000 battery lease but just €120 tax (compared to €720 on a pre '08 €4k 2l ICE car) and easily save €100 on insurance

That makes the ZE €300 more expensive. Then there is the fuel saving even at a very low mileage.

And the maintenance saving, no oil changes needed, no cambelt

Bottom line is even at low mileage you will save several hundred to maybe a grand or so a year in total cost of ownership (presuming both the €4k Fluence and a similar value ICE car will depreciate to near zero over a few years)

And for that you are driven a '12, not a '07 reg car

sgalvin wrote: »

If you do have a battery failure you don't actually have a choice who you buy a replacement from or what they charge you.

Well that's actually the one good thing with the Fluence ZE

If the battery fails, Renault will replace it free of charge...

heliguyheliguy

Did any of you know that Damien Maguire is working with evtv to build a fast charging setup that can be retro fitted to any ev.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFZcxqg7r7s

cros13

unkel wrote: »

If the battery fails, Renault will replace it free of charge...

Many owners have had issues getting the battery replaced. One owner in Austria i think had 6 months of arguing with renault before they replaced his battery.... during which he had to pay the lease.

unkel

cros13 wrote: »

Many owners have had issues getting the battery replaced. One owner in Austria i think had 6 months of arguing with renault before they replaced his battery.... during which he had to pay the lease.

Any link? I'd have Renault in the small claims court in weeks, not months

cros13

unkel wrote: »

Any link? I'd have Renault in the small claims court in weeks, not months

http://www.renaultzeforum.com/forums/Thread-First-Fluence-battery-replacement

unkel

Did you read any of that? They are bought batteries and they are struggling to get a replacement under warranty. They all wished they had leased the batteries instead

heliguyheliguy

Well week one and all is well, mostly.

On the good side the car is now guestimating 100 km's range after an overnight charge.
This turns out to be more like 120 km's as after my 92 km round trip I still have 25 km range displayed, I'm very happy with this as even after one week most of the range anxiety is gone as my commuting needs seem to well within the ability of the car..

The bad news is that I learned the hard way that Dublin city council is no fan of electric cars and will clamp you even while charging, (I guess that's why all the spaces are empty.

stesaurus

Lol did you think parking was free?

heliguyheliguy

heliguyheliguy wrote: »

The bad news is that I learned the hard way that Dublin city council is no fan of electric cars and will clamp you even while charging, (I guess that's why all the spaces are empty.

Well if it was free you wouldn't have found a space to park, proves paying for leccy or parking works ! keeps them for for people who need them .

A hard lesson learned !

heliguyheliguy

I did yes its free in Navan while your charging.
Is it just in Navan?

heliguyheliguy

heliguyheliguy wrote: »

I did yes its free in Navan while your charging.
Is it just in Navan?

Carlow Town is free while charging too and a few other places. Some places in Dublin too.

stesaurus

It's quite sporadic
http://www.irishevowners.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=111&sid=96d8c876d01121a41c70eeeb59c7fba0

Gumbo

heliguyheliguy wrote: »

Well week one and all is well, mostly.

On the good side the car is now guestimating 100 km's range after an overnight charge.
This turns out to be more like 120 km's as after my 92 km round trip I still have 25 km range displayed, I'm very happy with this as even after one week most of the range anxiety is gone as my commuting needs seem to well within the ability of the car..

The bad news is that I learned the hard way that Dublin city council is no fan of electric cars and will clamp you even while charging, (I guess that's why all the spaces are empty.

DCC are very pro EV cars, we have 3 of them for staff use on a booking basis. I post about the fluence in the EV Facebook page. But it's well known that you have to pay for parking, even while charging. That's a rookie mistake that you hopefully won't make again

Our 2 fluences display 90isk KM on a full charge and that with people hoping in and out without any due regard to their well being. I'd say it would do more with a one owner car.

We also have the Kangoo EV too.

unkel

Please do share any / all of your experiences with the Fluences ZE on your fleet, kceire. Much appreciated!

Any battery issues? What age are the cars and what mileage is on them?

Gumbo

unkel wrote: »

Please do share any / all of your experiences with the Fluences ZE on your fleet, kceire. Much appreciated!

Any battery issues? What age are the cars and what mileage is on them?

I'll check again next week.
I've posted a bit on the FB group with pics etc and average consumption so etc but as I mentioned it's a staff group car, so anybody can use them once booked in advance so the averages would not be reset all that often.

They are a nice car, little bit light at the front but they look 'normal' so that goes a long any for somebody considering an EV.

Nice spec too with leather, Bluetooth and colour screen sat nav.

The range is not great but I think that could be improved by a one owner car as you can reset the computer and it should recalibrate to your driving style as opposed to us and our drive it like we stole it attitude

heliguyheliguy

MUNSTER:

County Cork
Cork city : 4 hour free parking while charging in any of the Q Parks
Free parking (and bus ride) in Black Ash park and ride (Need to apply for a membership card, email drive4zero@corkcity.ie for more info)

County Waterford
Waterford city : Free while charging
Tramore : Free while charging

County Limerick
Limerick City: Must pay and display

County Clare
Ennis: Free while charging

County Tipperary
Clonmel : Must pay and display

LEINSTER:

Dublin city council
Dublin: Must pay and display

County Wilcklow
Bray : Free while charging

County Carlow
Carlow town : Free while charging

County Wexford
Wexford town : Free while charging
Enniscorthy: Free while charging

County Meath
Navan : Free while charging
Kells : Free while charging

CONNACHT:

County Mayo
Castlebar : Free while charging

ULSTER:

OTHER:
Railway Stations : Must pay
Luas Park and Ride Sites : For Luas users only, must pay

Credit for compiling this list goes to loverenault on the irishevowners dot com forum.

And to s.welstead for trying to link to the list..

Roen

heliguyheliguy wrote: »

MUNSTER:

County Cork
Cork city : 4 hour free parking while charging in any of the Q Parks
Free parking (and bus ride) in Black Ash park and ride (Need to apply for a membership card, email drive4zero@corkcity.ie for more info)

County Waterford
Waterford city : Free while charging
Tramore : Free while charging

County Limerick
Limerick City: Must pay and display

County Clare
Ennis: Free while charging

County Tipperary
Clonmel : Must pay and display

LEINSTER:

Dublin city council
Dublin: Must pay and display

County Wilcklow
Bray : Free while charging

County Carlow
Carlow town : Free while charging

County Wexford
Wexford town : Free while charging
Enniscorthy: Free while charging

County Meath
Navan : Free while charging
Kells : Free while charging

CONNACHT:

County Mayo
Castlebar : Free while charging

ULSTER:

OTHER:
Railway Stations : Must pay
Luas Park and Ride Sites : For Luas users only, must pay

Credit for compiling this list goes to loverenault on the irishevowners dot com forum.

And to s.welstead for trying to link to the list..

If you are implying that parking is free while charging in Wexford it's not.
I rang up about it and was told I'd need a ticket.
Also spoke to someone that was fined in enniscorthy while charging.

That said the official line is one thing. Sometimes no one bothers tell the staff on the ground. Can you post a link for the above source please?
At the very least it would be something you could appeal in if you were hit with a fine.

heliguyheliguy

I think boards is blocking the link, but the details to where i got the information are at the bottom.

heliguyheliguy

https://www.dropbox.com/s/3jw85rjb3u7e8sm/Parking%20Free%20or%20not%20while%20charging.docx?dl=0

Here is a link to the email from wexford cc saying that it free while charging.. (think that's what it says)

Roen

Cheers,

All that says is that the majority of clerks in Wexford were in favour of free parking while charging, not that anything is enacted. That letter also doesn't have a date and things may have changed.

Based on what they told me a few weeks back and meeting someone that was fined while charging I wouldn't rely on it.

I'll try nab a warden next week and ask him, then post back.

garg

I was told by DCC that it is free to park if the charge point parking space is painted green? Is this not true? Also all train station points are free if you are in the box and the car is plugged in.