Klitschko is the pound for pound best boxer in the world

sxt

And it's about time. Klitschko was a categorically more dominant champ then Mayweather, a boxer who never ducked anybody

http://www.elpasotimes.com/story/sports/2015/10/09/klitschko-assumes-pound--pound-mantle/73653150/

walshb

Too right he is. He has to meet all comers. No other weight division can claim this. Wlad is p4p up there.

walshb

Rigo has done next to nothing to be so high on that list. Hasn't moved weight, and has one solid win on his ledger. Ridiculous placing. I'd put Lomachenko ahead of him.

Andre 3000

Roman Gonzalez is the real #1. The guy he's fighting on Saturday is better than most pound for pound fighters best win. His win against Sosa is a phenomenal win. And his win against Estrada is remarkable too considering Estrada is a top 10 p4p as well.

I'd agree that Rigo hasn't done a lot recently but Lomachenko has done tap all to even warrant top 20. You cannot count amateur achievements in professional boxing.

walshb

Andre 3000 wrote: »

Roman Gonzalez is the real #1. The guy he's fighting on Saturday is better than most pound for pound fighters best win. His win against Sosa is a phenomenal win. And his win against Estrada is remarkable too considering Estrada is a top 10 p4p as well.

I'd agree that Rigo hasn't done a lot recently but Lomachenko has done tap all to even warrant top 20. You cannot count amateur achievements in professional boxing.

Loma at least challenged himself. Fought a seasoned pro in his first fight, giving away a lot of weight in the process. Also fought and beat an excellent Russell.

Andre 3000

walshb wrote: »

Loma at least challenged himself. Fought a seasoned pro in his first fight, giving away a lot of weight in the process. Also fought and beat an excellent Russell.

I agree but he has achieved not near enough to be ranked P4P. The guy has 5 fights. You cannot be ranked p4p for that imo. If that was the case, Naoya Inoue should be top 5, but again he hasn't even fought 10 fights. Although Loma is one of the best amateurs of all time (arguably the greatest), you cannot consider him for the pro P4P just yet. I have no doubt he'll be there very soon though.

walshb

Andre 3000 wrote: »

I agree but he has achieved not near enough to be ranked P4P. The guy has 5 fights. You cannot be ranked p4p for that imo. If that was the case, Naoya Inoue should be top 5, but again he hasn't even fought 10 fights. Although Loma is one of the best amateurs of all time (arguably the greatest), you cannot consider him for the pro P4P just yet. I have no doubt he'll be there very soon though.

I agree.

Frank Bullitt

http://espn.go.com/boxing/story/_/id/11873997/memory-lamon-brewster-loss-drives-wladimir-klitschko

Great read on how the Brewster loss has changed Wlad. Good insight to him.

magma69

sxt wrote: »

And it's about time. Klitschko was a categorically more dominant champ then Mayweather, a boxer who never ducked anybody

http://www.elpasotimes.com/story/sports/2015/10/09/klitschko-assumes-pound--pound-mantle/73653150/

I have him p4p 2 after Chocolatito.

Saying he was a categorically more dominant champ than Mayweather is an embarrassing comment.

walshb

magma69 wrote: »

Saying he was a categorically more dominant champ than Mayweather is an embarrassing comment.

No, it's not. Look at their respective records. Wlad faces all comers. Floyd doesn't. I would lend more weight to that. It's subjective. Floyd has had 49 fights in his 18-19 year career. Wlad has had almost 20 more fights against the best HWs on earth. I am not going waste time looking at Floyd's career, but for me his level of opposition over the past few years has been good, nothing approaching great.

Remove the 0 from Floyd and he has nothing to challenge Wlad with as regards career IMO. Yes, won titles at different weights. So what. Wlad is the man at all weights. End of.

Edit: I realize that your comment was in response to the OPs claim.

magma69

walshb wrote: »

No, it's not. Look at their respective records. Wlad faces all comers. Floyd doesn't. I would lend more weight to that. It's subjective. Floyd has had 49 fights in his 18-19 year career. Wlad has had almost 20 more fights against the best HWs on earth. I am not going waste time looking at Floyd's career, but for me his level of opposition over the past few years has been good, nothing approaching great.

Remove the 0 from Floyd and he has nothing to challenge Wlad with as regards career IMO. Yes, won titles at different weights. So what. Wlad is the man at all weights. End of.

Edit: I realize that your comment was in response to the OPs claim.

You're talking absolute rubbish.

For starters, he didn't take on all comers because there was only one other excellent heavyweight in his era and he didn't fight him (excusable as it's his brother) but the fact still remains he didn't take on all comers like you claimed.

Secondly, Wlad got knocked out in two of his title fights against bang average fighters. Sanders who had never won or defended a proper world title before or after and whose best win after Wlad is who?

This is akin to Floyd getting knocked out by a fighter like DeMarcus Corley :pac:

More dominant eh?

Furthermore, how many great fighters did he face? What fighters were ranked p4p when Wlad faced them?...................Oh yeah none.

Now let's see what p4p fighters Floyd faced:
Corrales
Hatton
Marquez
Mosley

Wladimir didn't make it into the top 10 p4p list until 2010, because he was fighting such bang average contenders. Floyd was p4p in 2000, ten years before Wlad despite going pro at the same time.

You say he fought everyone, why didn't he rematch his two losses then? Floyd has one controversial fight and immediately gave him a rematch and beat him convincingly.

Honestly, you're talking absolute shít. I'm putting you on my ignore list now btw. I'm not wasting any more time reading your crap.

walshb

I would have answered you, but the fact that you have blown a gasket on an internet forum because of a discussion, and the fact that I'm now on your ignore list..:rolleyes:, I'll leave it there!

Frank Bullitt

magma69 wrote: »

You're talking absolute rubbish.

For starters, he didn't take on all comers because there was only one other excellent heavyweight in his era and he didn't fight him (excusable as it's his brother) but the fact still remains he didn't take on all comers like you claimed.

Secondly, Wlad got knocked out in two of his title fights against bang average fighters. Sanders who had never won or defended a proper world title before or after and whose best win after Wlad is who?

This is akin to Floyd getting knocked out by a fighter like DeMarcus Corley :pac:

More dominant eh?

Furthermore, how many great fighters did he face? What fighters were ranked p4p when Wlad faced them?...................Oh yeah none.

Now let's see what p4p fighters Floyd faced:
Corrales
Hatton
Marquez
Mosley

Wladimir didn't make it into the top 10 p4p list until 2010, because he was fighting such bang average contenders. Floyd was p4p in 2000, ten years before Wlad despite going pro at the same time.

You say he fought everyone, why didn't he rematch his two losses then? Floyd has one controversial fight and immediately gave him a rematch and beat him convincingly.

Honestly, you're talking absolute shít. I'm putting you on my ignore list now btw. I'm not wasting any more time reading your crap.

Have a snickers pal.

Miccoli

Klitschko doesnt even come close to Floyd.

Needlederm

Miccoli wrote: »

Klitschko doesnt even come close to Floyd.

He does in fairness.

walshb

Miccoli wrote: »

Klitschko doesnt even come close to Floyd.

Absolute nonsense that you could claim that one of histories most dominant ever HWs can't compare to a SFW- WW fighter.

cowzerp

Wlad is 1 of the best heavyweights ever, he is so far ahead of his opposition that it makes them look bad when in reality he is just so good, personally i think both are close to even and both get downplayed at times.

Miccoli

walshb wrote: »

Absolute nonsense that you could claim that one of histories most dominant ever HWs can't compare to a SFW- WW fighter.

De La Hoya , Pacquiao , Cotto and Mosley vs Tony Thompson and David Haye. Add in 3 shocking loses to journeymen. Wlad is a good bit behind mayweather in terms of achievements.

walshb

Miccoli wrote: »

De La Hoya , Pacquiao , Cotto and Mosley vs Tony Thompson and David Haye. Add in 3 shocking loses to journeymen. Wlad is a good bit behind mayweather in terms of achievements.

Yeah, a blown up FW Pacman (after poncing around for 6 years avoiding), a shot Mosley, a past it Oscar, who many thought won, and Cotto who?

Simple: Wlad has been the HW champ for years. Beating any man at any weight. He's had many more fights than Floyd, as well as many more wins. Floyd has the 0, that's about it. Calzaghe also had the 0, as have others. Wlad has got to be prepared to face any man on earth. Floyd does not. That on its iwn trumps anything Floyd, or many other lower weight fighters have achieved.

Oh, and if Floyd ever stepped in the ring with Wlad he'd get decimated. Floyd deserved his kudos, but he's just another fighter who was successful in his era.

As for Wlad's losses? Big deal. Ali lost to an 8 fight Spinks. Many greats that more than compare to Floyd have had losses to so called unknown fighters.

Miccoli

walshb wrote: »

Yeah, a blown up FW Pacman, a shot Mosley, a past it Oscar, who many thought won, and Cotto who?

Simple: Wlad has been the HW champ for years. Beating any man at any weight. He's had many more fights than Floyd, as well as nany more wins. Floyd has the 0, that's about it.

Oh, and if Floyd ever stepped in the ring with Wlad he'd get decimated. Floyd deserved his kudos, but he's just another fighter who was successful in his era.

As for Wlad's losses? Big deal. Ali lost to an 8 fight Spinks. Many greats that more than compare to Floyd hsve had losses to unknown fighters.

Obviously he would lose , wlad is about 100 pounds heavier than Floyd they have weight classes for a reason. What would you say is Wlads best victory?

walshb

Miccoli wrote: »

Obviously he would lose , wlad is about 100 pounds heavier than Floyd they have weight classes for a reason. What would you say is Wlads best victory?

He has had several good victories. As cowzerp mentioned, it's his dominance in making his victims look ordinary that tricks people into thinking that the opposition aren't all that good. His clear win over Povetkin in recent years was impressive.

walshb

Bottom line is that anyone claiming that Wlad can't compare to Floyd hasn't the first fooking clue about this sport.

Miccoli

walshb wrote: »

He has had several good victories. As cowzerp mentioned, it's his dominance in making his victims look ordinary that tricks people into thinking that the opposition aren't all that good. His clear win over Povetkin in recent years was impressive.

Struggles to have a victory that would even get in Floyds top 5. Not his fault but the heavyweight division was an embarrasment for the last 10 years.

walshb

Miccoli wrote: »

Struggles to have a victory that would even get in Floyds top 5. Not his fault but the heavyweight division was an embarrasment for the last 10 years.

That's nonsense. You are fixated on name recognition it seems.. Wlad's resume is every bit as good as Floyd's, and no matter what anyone says they cannot escape the blatant fact that Wlad meets all comers. Floyd does not. That will always trump Floyd.

What is Floyd's signature win? His toughest and best win? No name stands out for me when you break it down. Some solid wins, but no way do they automatically trump Wlad's.

ASOT

walshb wrote: »

oh, and if Floyd ever stepped in the ring with Wlad he'd get decimated. Floyd deserved his kudos, but he's just another fighter who was successful in his era.

For someone who shows so much insight into the sport this is possibly the most retarded statement iv seen on Boards, jesus man.

Miccoli

walshb wrote: »

That's nonsense. You are fixated on name recognition it seems.. Wlad's resume is every bit as good as Floyd's, and no matter what anyone says they cannot escape the blatant fact thst Wlad meets all comers. Floyd does not. That will always trump Floyd.

What is Floyd's signature win? His toughest and best win? No name stands out for me when you break it down. Some dolid wins, but no way do they automatically trump Wlad's.

I agree with you that Floyd doesnt meet all comers , but at the end of the day hes beaten the most world champions ever , beaten numerous p4p fighters all while never being beaten , only knocked down once and only looked like losing a couple of times.

walshb

ASOT wrote: »

For someone who shows so much insight into the sport this is possibly the most retarded statement iv seen on Boards, jesus man.

How so? Are you saying it's untrue? And before you try to dig yourself out of the hole, we know Wlad is bigger and heavier. So what? My sentence is just a simple claim, that's all. That if Floyd got in the ring with Wlad he'd be decimated. Nothing retarded (inappropriate description) with that belief. On the contrary, it makes perfect sense

walshb

Miccoli wrote: »

I agree with you that Floyd doesnt meet all comers , but at the end of the day hes beaten the most world champions ever , beaten numerous p4p fighters all while never being beaten , only knocked down once and only looked like losing a couple of times.

I rate him highly. I don't think he rates higher than Wlad and others.

What is your view of his best wins? I bet I and others could easily pick holes in those wins just like you blanket slated the HW division in Wlad's reign.

walshb

Not sure why some people start these threads. The OP is a Klitschko maniac. Very rarely posts about any other fighters. Posts a heap of Klitschko loving threads and then fooks off? 0 posts on his own thread......

As regards P4P it depends on your opinion of it. Mine: Wlad is the quintessential p4p number 1. No matter what lbs are put in front of him he crushes. Ward, Kovalev, GGG, Rigo, Cotto, Mayeather, Pacquiao, Thurman, Khan, Povetkin, Fury, Stevenson, Garcia et al. None of them, bar Fury stand a chance.

Miccoli

walshb wrote: »

I rate him highly. I don't think he rates higher than Wlad and others.

What is your view of his best wins? I bet I and others could easily pick holes in those wins just like you blanket slated the HW division in Wlad's reign.

He dominated all of his biggest fights bar De la hoya. Most did very well to even win 3/4 rounds . Also who other than Wlad would you rate over Mayweather?

walshb

Miccoli wrote: »

He dominated all of his biggest fights bar De la hoya. Most did very well to even win 3/4 rounds . Also who other than Wlad would you rate over Mayweather?

Through history?

Btw, he did not dominate all fights bar Oscar. I had him losing to JLC in fight 1. And, fight 1 against crude Maidana was far from dominant.

Andre 3000

walshb wrote: »

Not sure why some people start these threads. The OP is a Klitschko maniac. Very rarely posts about any other fighters. Posts a heap of Klitschko loving threads and then fooks off? 0 posts on his own thread......

As regards P4P it depends on your opinion of it. Mine: Wlad is the quintessential p4p number 1. No matter what lbs are put in front of him he crushes. Ward, Kovalev, GGG, Rigo, Cotto, Mayeather, Pacquiao, Thurman, Khan, Povetkin, Fury, Stevenson, Garcia et al. None of them, bar Fury stand a chance.

Are you honestly saying that Wlad deserves extra credit because he'd destroy the likes of Rigondeaux and Manny? No f*cking sh*t Sherlock, he's like three times their size.

And the Povetkin win was anything but impressive. He should have been DQ'd for it.

walshb

Andre 3000 wrote: »

Are you honestly saying that Wlad deserves extra credit because he'd destroy the likes of Rigondeaux and Manny? No f*cking sh*t Sherlock, he's like three times their size.

And the Povetkin win was anything but impressive. He should have been DQ'd for it.

Well, he certainly should not be penalised because he dwarfs them and would crush them. HWs for far too long have been penalised when discussing these 'futile' p4p discussions. Dealing in more obvious facts we can place Wlad at the top of the tree, as those below HW can't touch him physically, and as regards wins and longevity and record, he is deserving of top spot IMO.

He destroyed Povetkin. Disqualified? Don't be stupid.

Andre 3000

walshb wrote: »

Well, he certainly should not be penalised because he dwarfs them and would crush them. HWs for far too long have been penalised when discussing these 'futile' p4p discussions. Dealing in more obvious facts we can place Wlad at the top of the tree, as those below HW can't touch him physically, and as regards wins and longevity and record, he is deserving of top spot IMO.

He destroyed Povetkin. Disqualified. Don't be stupid.

Nobody is penalising him. But to suggest he's better simply because he's a few feet taller and over 100lbs heavier is idiotic. It makes no sense and it's a highly flawed point. P4P doesn't mean if Wlad was to fight Manny or Floyd as they are now, who would win. There's no point to that. P4P is to serve as an equal playing field...make Floyd bigger/Wlad smaller and see how fighters do. Take away weight/size advantages.

And it's not being stupid, it's probably the ugliest and most embarrassing boxing fight I have ever seen. The referee destroyed the possibility of a great HW fight from happening because he let Wlad get away with absolute murder the whole fight.

walshb

I know what p4p is. It's a futile exercise. So very silly.

Miccoli

walshb wrote: »

Through history?

Btw, he did not dominate all fights bar Oscar. I had him losing to JLC in fight 1. And, fight 1 against crude Maidana was far from dominant.

Yeah he was lucky to get the win vs Maidana but Mosley, Marquez , Canelo and even pacquaio to an extent were dominated.

sxt

Miccoli wrote: »

Yeah he was lucky to get the win vs Maidana but Mosley, Marquez , Canelo and even pacquaio to an extent were dominated.

I think klitschko had a far more dominant reign than Mayweather, and you are having trouble to come to terms with this? maybe?

walshb

Miccoli wrote: »

Yeah he was lucky to get the win vs Maidana but Mosley, Marquez , Canelo and even pacquaio to an extent were dominated.

Yes, but look at the opposition. JMM was a LW moving up. Mosley was shot to bits. Canelo was a good win, but forced to get to 152 for the fight. Mayweather's camp say he came up with this idea. That's nonsense. It was a condition set by team Mayweather.

As to Manny. A smaller man, and he was not dominated. A glorified tag boxing sparring session, with many people giving the win to Manny.

Like I said, we can pick holes in Floyd's wins and opposition and achievements just as much as you have done regarding Wlad.

ASOT

walshb wrote: »

How so? Are you saying it's untrue? And before you try to dig yourself out of the hole, we know Wlad is bigger and heavier. So what? My sentence is just a simple claim, that's all. That if Floyd got in the ring with Wlad he'd be decimated. Nothing retarded (inappropriate description) with that belief. On the contrary, it makes perfect sense

Because its an absolutely pointless belief, obviously he'd decimate him like you said he's bigger and heavier. I just don't see your reasoning for mentioning it, Wlad would also decimate Katie Taylor, Nevin, GGG, Ward and anyone else who was massively below him size and weight wise it just seems pointless to even mention it.

walshb

ASOT wrote: »

Because its an absolutely pointless belief, obviously he'd decimate him like you said he's bigger and heavier. I just don't see your reasoning for mentioning it, Wlad would also decimate Katie Taylor, Nevin, GGG, Ward and anyone else who was massively below him size and weight wise it just seems pointless to even mention it.

That is fine. Better than your OTT kind of rant. I mentioned it more to point out the silliness of the whole p4p debate. I came at it from a different angle. Wlad meets and beats all men, no restrictions. For me that trumps any of the other lower weight claimants to be called the best at p4p.

boxer.fan

walshb wrote: »

Through history?

Btw, he did not dominate all fights bar Oscar. I had him losing to JLC in fight 1. And, fight 1 against crude Maidana was far from dominant.

Even Floyd knows that JLC won their first fight. Anyone who thinks Floyd win that is on drugs

walshb

Parisian Pavlova wrote: »

It defeats the purpose of p4p ranking then, Wladimir from Mid 30's on has been more impressive than Mayweather, but Mayweather has been more impressive when comparing say 33 and younger. I don't think it's fair to negate Mayweather's career achievements because his last 6 fights or so weren't very impressive. He's been a champion since he was 21, peak Mayweather was a stunning boxer. He simply aged like everyone does eventually so his level dropped.

Ali, Sugar Ray Leonard and many other top boxers were being beaten by nobodies in their late thirties. Mayweather found a way to win, something the others couldn't do.

A well past it and shook Ali was beaten by an insane performance by an Olympic champion. A fight he avenged. Ray was not beaten by a nobody, unless you want to claim that Terry Norris was a nobody? From my recollection Norris was hot property back in 1991. A beast of a boxer puncher close to his prime.

sxt

Vladimir is dominating his division in a more dominating fashion than other boxer In any other division. He has been doing this for ten years now. If that is not grounds for no 1 p4p, I don't know what is.. At 37, in 2013,he beat the number 1 contender by 13 points on all three score cards away from home

If Vlad was from Kansas, America rather than Kiev, Ukraine! I'm pretty sure he would be number one in every American boxing magazine.

Chocolatito

The heavyweight division had been very bad for a good while, that is why Klitschko isn't #1 pound for pound. Beating up the likes of Mormeck, Pianeta and Leapai doesn't get you the number 1 pound for pound spot. Leapai landed 10 punches in the 5 rounds he fought Klitschko, Klitschko landed 147 punches. Is that sign of Klitschko being a totally awesome boxer? No, it's a sign of horrid competition.

The Heavyweight division has been getting a bit better lately and Klitschko has gotten a couple of good wins, but we're talking about #1 P4P here. Before there was no good competition, no there is Fury, Joshua, Parker etc so that's good.

StringerBell

You sounded like you might know what you were talking about, until you got to the last line.

Miccoli

So wlad better than floyd ?

Andre 3000

Miccoli wrote: »

So wlad better than floyd ?

Floyd is retired so he's irrelevent in this conversation. It does clear up any misconceptions that people might have had claiming someone other than Roman Gonzalez is the best boxer on the planet

Miccoli

Andre 3000 wrote: »

Floyd is retired so he's irrelevent in this conversation. It does clear up any misconceptions that people might have had claiming someone other than Roman Gonzalez is the best boxer on the planet

No hes not

Andre 3000

Miccoli wrote: »

No hes not

Floyd himself has reiterated he is retired several times in the last week alone. Let it go.

Miccoli

Point stands that Klitschko doesnt compare to Mayweather, And roman gonzalez is not the best boxer on the planet. Golovkin,Ward,Kovalev,Rigondeaux all better

Andre 3000

Miccoli wrote: »

Point stands that Klitschko doesnt compare to Mayweather, And roman gonzalez is not the best boxer on the planet. Golovkin,Ward,Kovalev,Rigondeaux all better

Ward I'd agree on but he needs to fight again. Golovkin, not a chance..hasn't fought top opposition to prove his worth. Kovalev is up there but Gonzalez has done a lot more in a shorter time frame. Rigo also needs to fight more and fight better opposition. Gonzalez is clearly the top guy in Boxing atm