The Peds Peddler - 400m & The Mile

IvoryTower

Right Boardies, after my first year running I've decided it's now my main sport. The plan is to get as good as possible at my two favorite distances with a few other races thrown in for fun. This log is to help with boredom at work and to be able to spot where my training is going right/wrong!

I took part in a graded meet during the summer and decided 400m was my favourite distance so that will be the main focus. My club do a mile trial every 6 weeks and I love it, so that will be my secondary focus.

I started track training after that graded meet and found it very tough on my calves, so I'm currently in the midst of cross country *light* training with the hope that when the indoors come around my body will be more able to train hard.

My pb's are 58.2 for the 400m and 5.23 for the mile(2 weeks ago). My first 400m was 61.4 in May and my first mile was 5.48 in February. I also have 20.25 for 5k which I hope to beat at the end of this CC training.

Let's do this

Notwork Error

Solid times there for someone new enough to running Ivory Tower, you've got some good speed. All the best with the goals and the log!:)

happygoose

That's a great starting point IT, 400 pb in Drogheda IIRC? Think I was in that race.

I like the logs in/around these events, they are few and far between. I'm focusing on something similar myself. It looks like you could get yourself into strong times particularly at the lower end based on your 400.

What's your background, age, plan, targets etc.?

IvoryTower

Hi happygoose, I'm 33 in Jan. I finished playing Sunday league football last Christmas before taking up running somewhat half arsed. After the graded meet I started doing 2 of the 3 weekly club track sessions. The plan now is to continue the cc training until november(louth novice 2moro), then join the club's indoor training group and really give it a good effort. I can't wait, give me 400m training over a 5 mile tempo run any day!

My diet is woeful and I don't do any other training although I'm not in bad shape. I have a family so I don't plan on spending more than 3-4 days training. I'll have a look for your log, chivitos is the only short distance one I follow at the moment.

Targets, 20min 5k , I've wanted to beat this all year! I might sign up for jingle bells to try beat it. 5 min mile would be amazing, I'm someway off that I'd imagine. Then I guess sub 58 for 400m to start, I'm not really sure how fast ill improve at this, the lower 50's would be nice in the long run

Edit: yes drogheda, did you win that race? Do you have a log?

Chivito550

IvoryTower wrote: »

Hi happygoose, I'm 33 in Jan. I finished playing Sunday league football last Christmas before taking up running somewhat half arsed. After the graded meet I started doing 2 of the 3 weekly club track sessions. The plan now is to continue the cc training until november(louth novice 2moro), then join the club's indoor training group and really give it a good effort. I can't wait, give me 400m training over a 5 mile tempo run any day!

My diet is woeful and I don't do any other training although I'm not in bad shape. I have a family so I don't plan on spending more than 3-4 days training. I'll have a look for your log, chivitos is the only short distance one I follow at the moment.

Targets, 20min 5k , I've wanted to beat this all year! I might sign up for jingle bells to try beat it. 5 min mile would be amazing, I'm someway off that I'd imagine. Then I guess sub 58 for 400m to start, I'm not really sure how fast ill improve at this, the lower 50's would be nice in the long run

Great to see another sprint log.

Personally, I don't think you should be doing cross country. Obviously you want to get fit during winter, but I don't know any 400 runner here or in Australia from my experiences who do it. You want to get fit in a specific manner. Lots of hills, and 300m reps, 500-400-300, 200m fartlek sessions. That kind of thing. It's also good to have one speed session per week over winter to help maintain those fast twitch fibres. By doing XC you are developing the slow twitch fibres. A long run once a week during winter is good, around 5k or so. You could even do a cross-country race as a long run, but actually training for it in not sure is the best way forward for 400m. It will have you fit, but not the right type of fitness.

Best of luck anyway. If you are planning on racing over the mile a lot then cross country makes sense, but mile training will inhibit your 400m. Rarely do you see people do a 400-800 double, so a 400-Mile double is ambitious.

IvoryTower

It is very much cc light. They do 5 mile tempos, I do 3, they do 1000s on the track and I do 800s with the faster guys. Then a parkrun sat and lsr sun. I had a lot of calf trouble over the summer, it really feels like they've gotten a lot stronger in the last 2 months so I don't mind doing this training. There would also be no one to train with if I was doing 400 specific work now cause literally everyone in the club is doing cc! I much prefer group training, even starting a few seconds before/after someone on a lap makes me push mucheck harder than if I try to do it alone

Krusty_Clown

I would've thought that for someone who doesn't have a background in running, a season of XC would provide a very solid starting point/running strength grounding, before moving to more specific sprint training. Your points about slow twitch versus fast twitch are well made, but IvoryTower isn't moving from one sprint season to another. He's basically starting out, so I'd have thought that the XC would provide basic muscular stimulus that will help with injury prevention, develop some aerobic capacity (while not useful for 400m, it'll be useful for specific training sessions) running economy etc. It may be counter-productive in the short term for a 400m, but beneficial longer term for a longer lasting running 'career'. Certainly it'll improve his mile time, which is way out of whack with his 400m.

Chivito550

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

I would've thought that for someone who doesn't have a background in running, a season of XC would provide a very solid starting point/running strength grounding, before moving to more specific sprint training. Your points about slow twitch versus fast twitch are well made, but IvoryTower isn't moving from one sprint season to another. He's basically starting out, so I'd have thought that the XC would provide basic muscular stimulus that will help with injury prevention, develop some aerobic capacity (while not useful for 400m, it'll be useful for specific training sessions) running economy etc. It may be counter-productive in the short term for a 400m, but beneficial longer term for a longer lasting running 'career'. Certainly it'll improve his mile time, which is way out of whack with his 400m.

Yeh it will make him a better all round runner, but won't do much for his 400m in the short term.

To be honest, it's not even necessary to have a base in cross country before starting sprint training. I had absolutely none, other than a marathon cycle, which I'd be hesitant to count as being in any way beneficial, particularly given how I trained, and the fact I did very little for long periods after the marathon, before I started training properly.

I think for a beginner, my approach in my first season worked well. Mostly speed endurance, much of it not on a track, and lots of hills, and bodyweight core work. That gave me a good base going into my second season where I joined a group and started weights and faster track work.

happygoose

I guested there, beaten into 2nd by a short head that day! Thinking of logging now, I can't comment on here without showing my own hand! Good to have a few more on here with a 400/800/1500 focus.

You're in a great place for a guy starting out and I'd go with what you're intending to do. You'll gain loads by doing XC / chasing times on the road in terms of fitness and developing the heart & lungs in order to adapt to the demands of Athletics. Whilst Chivito is right about the fast twitch stuff you've more to gain in terms of aerobic development over the winter than you have to loose in terms of turning intermediate fibres into slow fibres, they'll all come back once you start training specifically next year. I think specifics are less important until you find what event you really enjoy, after a few months or a year. Generally its what you're best at.

Make sure it's fun anyway, the XC season is hard fun, and the Indoors can be a dry run for the outdoor season and that same race in Drogheda which you can win in 2016.

A 54 won the National Masters 400 this year IIRC, 4 seconds in two years time is very doable!

IvoryTower

Very motivating, appreciate it! What age are you? You're probably not far off that time yourself?

dna_leri

Make sure you try a few 800s too - only way to find out your best event is trial and error.

IvoryTower

dna_leri wrote: »

Make sure you try a few 800s too - only way to find out your best event is trial and error.

Will do, I missed the graded meet that had the 800 due to calf injury, was hoping to do d9 a clean sweep of the short distances

IvoryTower

Louth novice today

6k around 2 football pitches. 8 laps

The plan was to stick with the 2 guys I do my tempo run with because they tend to do it faster and longer than me, so I thought it would be a good day to keep up with them.

Lap 1-3

We started at the back and it took off at a nice steady pace, it felt comfortable, I normally start a 5k way a lot faster than I can manage for the rest of the race so this made a change as I had the lads to pace me

Lap 4-6

Past the half way point and I felt really good, possibly too good but I was afraid to push on in case I was getting ahead of myself. At this stage one of our guys had dropped back so I was just shadowing the other fella

Lap 7-8

Towards the end of lap 6 I knew I had to push on, my friend was labouring and I still felt really good so I pushed on for the last 2 laps, past quite a few people but it was hard to know if I was lapping people or actually passing someone ahead of me! With a lap to go I pushed hard, was able to sprint by another 4-5 people with relative ease, I clearly had too much in the tank.


Aftermath.

Delighted to see a team from the club came first. In hindsight, I should have went at my own pace. It seems while I struggle to keep up in the tempo session's with the 20min 5k group, I can go a lot harder when there's a race involved. So a bit disappointed but it was a fun day and a great day for the club.

IvoryTower

Mon - Rest. I was still annoyed about how I ran the novice so I went and signed up for the Longwood 5k this Sunday, not sure if that was a good idea but looking forward to it nevertheless. I have since realised that Longwood is an hours drive!

Tues - My legs were still a little sore from the novice so I went to the gym for the first time in 3 months for a light session

Wed - Ouch. What happens when you havent lifted a weight in 3 months? DOMS! At least I got rid of a few cobwebs. The missus has given the go ahead for weekly Monday night gym, WOO!

Thurs- 5 x 800 with 2 min rest on grass, approx 3min for each. also got new runners, asics ds racer 10, my first non big road running type runners

Fri Going to do some foam rolling & stretching later , still sore from the gym!

I've swapped out my morning cheerios for eggs & bacon in an effort to get more protein in. My diet is woeful but i'll try to tackle it meal by meal.

Roll on Sunday

IvoryTower

Longwood 5k


So I signed up to this to make up for my disappointing run in the novice. The goal was a PB with ultimate goal being the sub 20. My current pb is 20.25 in September but it was on a perfectly flat course that was around 150m short. I only ran once since last Sunday so I was well rested.

I was armed with a Garmin I had yet to use and my first pair of racing flats so I was expecting big things! I spoke to fellow boardie overpronator beforehand and he recommended going out easy and finishing strong so that was the plan. I was going to run the first 2-3k steady and then push on.

KM 1

Lots of people surged ahead of me at the start, every child and their granny flew by! I got a bit of a shock but I stuck with the plan to keep it steady, about 300 metres in they were all bolloxed! Kept it going, only sped up slightly to get away from a woman who's breathing and running technique made me feel rather uncomfortable. 4.11 sounded okay so stuck with the plan.

Elevation -2m 4.11 /km

KM 2

Nothing much to report here, plodding along, 4.15 seemed okay but was I was getting a bit worried now that it might be too much to make up, with this I started to pick it up a little knowing that I could go all out after 3k

Elevation -3m 4.15 /km

KM 3

Came to a small country road which had been blocked by runners on both sides of it so I stepped it up and passed them using the grass in the middle of the road. Kept this pace up knowing 3k mark was around the corner where the fun would begin. As I run mostly on the track all I could think of is when it gets to a mile i'll be okay cause it's only 4 laps of the track!

Elevation 2m 4.08 /km

KM 4

So around the corner I came and couldn't believe my eyes, the 3k marker half way up a hill! I had a little giggle to myself cause overpronator had said the strategy would work unless the last 2k were up a hill! I had it in my head I was pushing on from here so off I went, the hills didn't stop though, the road just seemed to go up and down from here until about the last 500m

Elevation -1 3.57 /km

KM 5

Like I said the hills kept coming, I can't really remember how many or how bad, it certainly wasn't flat though. Eventually I came to the 400m sign, again all I could think was it's one lap of the track so all out. Felt really bad here though, really considered stopping or at least jogging to the end, just kept pushing, a quick glance at the clock but it was the time for the 10k which confused the **** out of me! when I got home the times had been uploaded and to my relief I had got a 4 second pb of 20.21.

Elevation 5m 3.48 /km


Sub 20 before Christmas? Maybe not, but Jingle bells is my best hope!

IvoryTower

Mon - TRX

I tried to go easy on the leg work, still strained my left hamstring. Really annoyed about this, there was no warm up in the class, urgh.

Tues - 30 min slow to try and loosen up

Not really the training session I had in mind. I'm thinking I should leave out most of the leg work in the next TRX class, maybe one set of squats and build it up slowly week by week so that I can still train properly on Tuesday nights.

Wed - Rest

chemicalfred

IvoryTower wrote: »

It is very much cc light. They do 5 mile tempos, I do 3, they do 1000s on the track and I do 800s with the faster guys. Then a parkrun sat and lsr sun. I had a lot of calf trouble over the summer, it really feels like they've gotten a lot stronger in the last 2 months so I don't mind doing this training. There would also be no one to train with if I was doing 400 specific work now cause literally everyone in the club is doing cc! I much prefer group training, even starting a few seconds before/after someone on a lap makes me push mucheck harder than if I try to do it alone

Hi Ivorytower, I just came across your training log....I'm in DDAC and am delighted to hear of someone interested in these distances. There is a sprint group in the club and they are focussed on training for the track season which begins with the Leinster Indoor championships early in the new year. There are people doing everything from 100m to 800m in the group. If you put up a post on the Members page on FB I'll reply to it and let you know about training times etc.

IvoryTower

Hi chemicalFred, I'm aware of the group, definitely joining it when they start training. I was training with 800-1500 group in the summer with Ian & Co. Im hugh c by the way in case you know me

chemicalfred

IvoryTower wrote: »

Hi chemicalFred, I'm aware of the group, definitely joining it when they start training. I was training with 800-1500 group in the summer with Ian & Co. Im hugh c by the way in case you know me

Great stuff Hugh hope to see you joining up when your Cross Country season is finished. We are just doing base endurance at the moment

IvoryTower

See you then cf really looking forward to it


Thurs - 5 x 800 3 min each

Calf and hamstring niggle feel slightly better. Still thinking about running shercock 5k at the Weekend. Only worry is that it could be very hilly

Chivito550

I see you've mentioned your diet a bit. When you say it is terrible, how bad are we talking? What specific stuff do you eat?

IvoryTower

At my worst which is a lot of the time a day could be

Breakfast:Cereal
Break:Chocolate
Lunch:Fast food/ chicken wrap/roll
4pm:Chocolate
Dinner: meat, veg, spuds/chips, sometimes fast food/pizza
After that: More chocolate/fizzy drink

I bet that's worse than you would've guessed!

So as you can see, proper chocolate addict! I changed breakfast to eggs/bacon for the last week and thats going well. Removing choc/fizz from today. I have tried that a few times, sometimes lasting weeks but fully off the wagon at the moment! I feel like I've more of a reason now with the running so I'm hoping that helps. I'll even keep a log of it here to keep pressure on myself not to give in. I don't think I can manage small amounts, it just leads to more

Myles Splitz

IvoryTower wrote: »

At my worst which is a lot of the time a day could be

Breakfast:Cereal
Break:Chocolate
Lunch:Fast food/ chicken wrap/roll
4pm:Chocolate
Dinner: meat, veg, spuds/chips, sometimes fast food/pizza
After that: More chocolate/fizzy drink

I bet that's worse than you would've guessed!

So as you can see, proper chocolate addict! I changed breakfast to eggs/bacon for the last week and thats going well. Removing choc/fizz from today. I have tried that a few times, sometimes lasting weeks but fully off the wagon at the moment! I feel like I've more of a reason now with the running so I'm hoping that helps. I'll even keep a log of it here to keep pressure on myself not to give in. I don't think I can manage small amounts, it just leads to more

Have found that mint and herbal tea's (berry etc) can be good for the sweetness substitution in terms of the dealing with the fizzy drinks.

IvoryTower

Thanks myles I will try that, it's going to be a tough few weeks

chemicalfred

Eggs for breakfast is a good one. The protein will make you feel fuller for longer. Cereal is full of sugar. Porridge (without) sugar isn't a bad one either. I'm fond of chocolate myself but try and substitute milk chocolate for the really dark stuff 85% cocoa

IvoryTower

Thanks cf, I don't really like dark chocolate but I might try some again if I'm struggling

3rd day off the junk


Sunday - Shercock 5k

Hardest 5k you will ever do. All hills, mostly up. 22.21, marking it down as a tough training session! There's a 5k in navan next week I'll probably attempt. It's also a quite a hilly town though so not expecting any favours from it


Monday

Rolling & stretching AM
Gym PM for some light weights

dintbo

IT, I had to make some big changes to my diet a couple of years back. Changing from milk to dark chocolate was one of the things I did. It took a few days but I quickly became accustomed to the taste. Buy decent quality stuff, you won't eat much of it anyway!

IvoryTower

I may give it a try, how do you know its decent?

Got 80% in lidl, higher percentage for better stuff I take it!

dintbo

Higher percentage does mean better quality but there can also be a big difference between brands. The lidl stuff is good, but you can't beat some green and blacks IMO.

lenny palmer

Good race report on the longwood 5k. This is my local race and us a bit more hilly than it states. I was one that you passed around the 3k mark. Your went storming passed, I think you were the only one who passed me for the run. I got a pb as well. It turned out to be a good day for running

tang1

IvoryTower wrote: »

There's a 5k in navan next week I'll probably attempt. It's also a quite a hilly town though so not expecting any favours from it

Worst of the hills in Navan are in the first half, two decent climbs in close succession. After its relatively flat and quick going.

IvoryTower

Hi lenny, I don't think I mentioned how perfect the weather was, It doesn't get much better! Well done on your pb, if im doing 5ks this time next year ill certainly do it again.

I done the shercock 5k yesterday and I had messaged them previous to ask was there many hills, they replied to say there was one hill. I was a bit skeptical but it turns out there's one hill but it's about 3k long!

IvoryTower

tang1 wrote: »

Worst of the hills in Navan are in the first half, two decent climbs in close succession. After its relatively flat and quick going.

Thanks tang that's good to know

chemicalfred

Well done in the 5k Ivory tower. Looking at your 400m PB you've got real potential. Are you over 35 (Masters) yet? It takes a couple of years to get accustomed to training for that distance and reaching your potential but you have a very good base. Hope to see you in the track group soon

pconn062

Not running Louth XC senior next weekend?

IvoryTower

pconn062 wrote: »

Not running Louth XC senior next weekend?

Nope, I was only ever doing the novice, the "cc" training is just to get some fitness for the track in the new year. I was told if I wanted to race to stick with 5k(so I'm doing as many as possible!)

Chivito550

Don't get caught up in that cross country for too long. Split 400s, 300 reps, 200s, 150s is the key to good 400m running, and over the winter lots of hills of 150-300 reps, and things like 500-400-300-200.

IvoryTower

Hi Chivito, I believe the track work starts after the senior cross country next weekend. Can't wait, give me 200 meter reps over a 5 mile tempo everyday!

IvoryTower

Tues - Pickups average 7.45 pace, ran with a slower group this week because I would only drop out if I ran with the cc group, felt nice to complete a tempo run! I should have ran with these from the start and I wouldn't have dropped out of so many runs

Wed - Roll & stretch

Thurs - 4 x 800 3.07, 2.57, 2.57, 2.56


The bull run 5k is on Sunday in Navan. Hopefully I can get a pb and that will set me up for a solid months training which WILL get me sub 20 at jingle bells! There's a pretty big hill at the end of the first km in Navan so i'm trying to decide what way to approach this race.

I guess the highlight of my week is that I haven't had any junk food other than some dark chocolate. No dairy choc, crisps, fizzies, fast food, cakes,ice cream, basically anything I eat too much of. I feel pretty good about it and confident I can keep it going. Next up is bringing my own lunch into work starting Monday. Lots of googling of work lunch ideas today.

tang1

Well done on the sub 20.

IvoryTower

tang1 wrote: »

Well done on the sub 20.

Thanks tang, appreciate it!

IvoryTower

Sunday


Navan Bull Run 5k

So I forgot to reset my garmin from last weeks race so it's only use was to tell me how far I had ran which was probably for the best anyway.

KM 1 & 2

You start by going downhill. I let the hill take me and of course ended up in 3rd going around the corner! Then down the road you go back up the hill, a bunch of about 5 lads passed me on it. It's not the worst hill, nice and early as well so you don't feel like you're killing yourself to get up it.

KM 3 - 5

Very flat and slightly downhill at times. Not being overly familiar with the streets of Navan the finish line took me a bit by surprise. I heard a crowd cheering so kicked on and next thing you know you come around the corner and it's all over! I looked up to see the clock and couldnt' believe it was sub 20 so gave it absolutely everything for the last 100. 19.44 PB, a very happy man.


Louth Senior Cross Country

Wow, what a buzz! This was my first time at a cc event(other than my half ass participating in novice). I see cross country in a completely different light now. There were so many duels going on it was brilliant to watch. It was also great to see so many track runners in the top 10, I would love to get involved next year. The guy from Dunleer who won it ran 32 min, 10k, on grass! My club won overall in both mens and womens so a great day for us. A few pints last night to celebrate and a nice little hangover to remind me why I don't miss drinking every weekend!

IvoryTower

Tues

Not feeling the best, sore throat, man flu on route. No more Sunday pints, not worth it. Decided to do some 400s as I couldn't bear the thought of tempo run on my own with this dose.

I had the outside lane on the track and done 5 x 400 with 3-4 min breaks

74, 79, 79, 76, 72

I was thinking high 70's beforehand but it was a bit all over the place. The last lap felt the best of the lot! Probably wasn't warmed up enough.

IvoryTower

Still dosed, managed 3 x 1000, 4.25. Packed it in on the 4th, should have done 800s or stayed in bed

Mile trial on tues so will only run the weekend if I feel a bit better

Chivito550

IvoryTower wrote: »

Still dosed, managed 3 x 1000, 4.25. Packed it in on the 4th, should have done 800s or stayed in bed

Mile trial on tues so will only run the weekend if I feel a bit better

Better off not to be training when sick. You'll only make it worse. If you must do something then do light core work.

Doing sets of 800s instead of 1000s is not going to be any easier on the body, assuming the 800s would be run quicker than the 1000s.

You planning doing indoor season? Races most weekends in Athlone from early January to early March.

IvoryTower

Hi Chivito, everyone in the club does the mile trial next week and then our training plans are given out the following week based on results and targets.

I've no idea how the indoors work. is there any point in going to Athlone if your pb is 58 sec? I'm assuming being in the senior category this would mean coming last. I suppose I have 2-3 months to get it down first but still be way off the mark

pconn062

We have a few from the club heading down to your time trial next Thursday, haven't run a mile since February!

IvoryTower

Good to hear pconn. It's usually free but I believe they're raising money for Irish cancer society next week so maybe have a few euros with you! I'll be there both Tues and Thurs. Most of our top group are running it on Thursday so you'll be in good company!

Well done in DKIT by the way, i'm sure it wasn't the result you were hoping for but that was still a great time for a 10k and on a tough grass course to boot. I'll hopefully do it next year, it was a great buzz to watch

Chivito550

IvoryTower wrote: »

Hi Chivito, everyone in the club does the mile trial next week and then our training plans are given out the following week based on results and targets.

I've no idea how the indoors work. is there any point in going to Athlone if your pb is 58 sec? I'm assuming being in the senior category this would mean coming last. I suppose I have 2-3 months to get it down first but still be way off the mark

Run your own race and don't worry about what others are doing. Regular racing experience is the way to improve, rather than ducking out of races out of fear.

Some indoor races you might have others around you. Things like Nationals is a different story. I personally wouldn't worry about it, and just get out and race.

IvoryTower

That seems like good advice, i'll certainly have to try out a few races. Have you gone to many of the indoor races yourself? How did you find them in comparison to the outdoor events? Harder? I assume there's different tactics seen as there's 2 laps and lots of bends!

chemicalfred

There's usually a track meet in AIT before Christmas. They call it the 'baseline' event. Its usually odd distances like 150, 300 and 600m. Keep an eye on the club facebook page Ivorytower we usually get told about it beforehand. Its a good one to get a feel for the indoor track. Later in the season next year, Morton stadium, Tallaght and Irishtown have a graded track series with loads of distances to choose from. you'll get loads of experience before you hit Masters category!