Future proof Home Charging

BoatMad

Deleted User wrote: »

Yes but the installation is another matter, I know roughly the cost of the components.

Mount em yourself. It's not difficult

BoatMad

In several cases I've found people being given a portable EVSE with Shuko plugs and using a 2-pin 10A travel adapter with no ground.

Sure the RCD would save them , if not Darwin's law applies anyway. In your stated case obviously the evse in the cable wasn't performing a ground test

cros13

Even just covering doing the easy stuff like mounting the panels and then getting someone to do the electrical and conduit work if you are nervous.

BoatMad

The OP is looking at installing three phase, buying an EV in a few years when 11-22kW and still home charged using AC Tesla Model 3s will be about. I have a preference for Type 2 both because I like the physical design (and I own two EVs, one that uses J1772 and one that uses type 2 mennekes, so I have experience of both to back my opinion) and because my next EV whether it's a Model S or Model 3 will probably have three phase 22kW charging. Type 2 mennekes can also deliver DC without the additional DC pins introduced by CCS.

I don't see a future for in-car chargers.( other then emergency small ones ) It makes no sense to carry around a dead weight . DC charging will predominate and that will include home charging. Ultimately the EV will be supplied with a DC wall wart !! , electronics are cheap. As battery power increases the whole reasoning for in-car chargers falls apart.

The future is dc

cros13

BoatMad wrote: »

In your stated case obviously the evse in the cable wasn't performing a ground test

Just refused to charge until a three-pin shuko adapter was used, so the portable EVSE was checking the ground. I'm fairly sure the car does too, seen some mentions of ground related errors from other european i3 owners.

J1772 became IEC 61851 mode 1 and I have a nagging half-memory that there were changes to the grounding requirements between the two. That's before mode 2 added the RCD to the EVSE.

cros13

BoatMad wrote: »

I don't see a future for in-car chargers.( other then emergency small ones ) It makes no sense to carry around a dead weight . DC charging will predominate and that will include home charging. Ultimately the EV will be supplied with a DC wall wart !! , electronics are cheap. As battery power increases the whole reasoning for in-car chargers falls apart.

The future is dc

Sure... but we need economies of scale, standardisation and wide availability. At the moment people still need to be able to hook to AC at mom and dads house with the minimum of additional equipment.

BoatMad

cros13 wrote: »

Sure... but we need economies of scale, standardisation and wide availability. At the moment people still need to be able to hook to AC at mom and dads house with the minimum of additional equipment.

Yes , but not 22kw AC charging. Single phase relatively low power will have a place for a while yet.

Ultimately EVs will need little on-route charging and where that is needed , it will be a high powered paid for DC charging facility.

You don't need standardised DC charging if the car company gives you the DC charger to mount on your wall.

Even today you can get medium power CHardemo units for about 3000 dollars a tiny percentage of a tesla .

But I agree in the meantime , it will be combinations , however I was informed recently the ESB only see fast DC charging as worth installing now.

cros13

I'm kinda coming up against some issues early because I own two EVs. Part of my objection to tethered chargers are that several times I've arrived at hotels and business having been assured they have a charger and low on juice to find a tethered charger with the wrong connector for the vehicle. It is really frustrating to have a perfectly good 32A EVSE sitting on the wall yet have to throw a extension cord out a 2nd story window, weatherproof all the connections to the best of my ability in driving rain at 2AM and charge at 8A.
Mode 3 on Type 2 mennekes is the EU standard, and if it's a socket everyone can use it. And the EU standard for DC is over type 2 or CCS. That's what's been submitted to CENELEC, that's what most vehicle manufacturers from Tesla to BMW to GM agree on, Nissan/Mitsubishi et al. just need to get with the program.

I don't look at an EVSE or DC charger as vehicle specific, it's more a piece of fixed infrastructure. I was mainly looking at smart evse because I have a vision of cementing the type 2 sockets into the wall.

ESBs biggest problem at the moment is a lack of resources for eCars. DC rapids are the place to spend those limited resources at the moment.

Long term it would be nice to see on-street charging return for apartment dwellers etc. but for the moment we need doubling up of rapids at popular locations, the odd ancient PoS SGTE replaced and expansion of CCS.

BoatMad

BoatMad wrote: »

however I was informed recently the ESB only see fast DC charging as worth installing now.

They shouldn't over look the advantages of AC.

Perhaps the AC points are not used that much ? With the 32 amp charger in the Leaf it makes them much more valuable to have. With the 16 amp you don't get nearly as useful charge. The Zoe charging at 22 Kw is really convenient.

I've to go to the airport Sunday night and I'm thinking about taking the Diesel. The Airport Topaz charger is in a horrible spot , what were they thinking ?

Anyway, if the short term had 32 amp EVSE's it would make charging a lot more convenient there on site but the 16 amp are absolutely useless for me. an 80% charge is going to be pretty tight getting back nearly 90 kms. So I either Charge to 90+ % or charge to 80% and again at Naas for 5-10 mins. Not so sure Z Germans would appreciate that.

So the easy thing to do is take the diesel for the 180 Km round trip. I'm half thinking about changing to the 30 kwh Leaf, but I would probably loose too much after just 1 year and 25,000 Odd kms . But something I will check out.

BoatMad

The siting of chargers is a different issue. The fact is even with a 6k6 charger the AC charge is too much of a delay, especially since few ACs have much in the way of roadside entertainment while you wait. I see from the list ESB have committed to8 or 10 more DC chargers including M11 gorey service ( brill ) . Certainly looking at east coast journeys , and a 30 kW leaf , I see no use for AC charging other then home, I simply haven't the that sort of time to spare. If I can't do the route via fast chargers I won't do it at all ( Excepting long stay , ie hotels etc )

As EVs increase the need for quick DC charging becomes even more acute , as you need the bloke to be gone in a reasonable time, not plugged for hour(s) or more

I think you need to have the car first and then decide whether you think getting into a charged car is more convenient than waiting for a DC charge or for someone to finish before you .

I have found several AC points very convenient. The option should be there.

BoatMad

Deleted User wrote: »

I think you need to have the car first and then decide whether you think getting into a charged car is more convenient than waiting for a DC charge or for someone to finish before you .

I have found several AC points very convenient. The option should be there.

After 1000 km of very varied EV driving I'm happy I've characterised what I need. I' see almost no situation , unless forced , to access slow roadside AC charging. I simply won't make that kind of journey.

At home, absolutely,at present AC single phase charging is where it's at. ( as it is in hotels and other long stay situations )

I'm not discounting AC charging , just saying that it will be a minority of users outside long stay charging situations

cros13

Deleted User wrote: »

Yes but the installation is another matter, I know roughly the cost of the components.

This diagram from Deutsche Bank is what I was looking for earlier in the conversation.
Just to give the current context costs are now below the 2016 estimate for good german equipment.
You can find chinese panels and inverters below the 2017 estimate.

That still doesn't tell me what it would cost to install by an Irish installer. Probably ripped off.

cros13

ah... sure....DIY... couple of youtube videos and a ladder....

what could go wrong?

Do you never sleep Cros?

hexosan

My roofer installed the brackets for €300 (there's a bit of work cutting slates around the flashing kit for each bracket), another €200-300 to install the racking & panels and the electrican will be another €100-200 to run the cabling and wire the inventor to the distribution panel.

So your looking at €800-1000 for the install. I priced a PV installer originally and I think he wanted €1200-1500 but that didn't include wiring up the invertor would of still needed the electrican for that.

hexosan

cros13 wrote: »

ah... sure....DIY... couple of youtube videos and a ladder....

what could go wrong?

I would agree that it's mainly a DIY job but I doubt the average DIYer would be capable of fitting the flashing kit around each bracket. Roofer had to cut three slates per flashing and refit slates flush. Not an easy job and its labour intensive. Plus last thing you want is your roof leaking after your new panels are installed.

Once the brackets are up its only a matter of bolts the racking to the brackets (not rocket science) then lift the panels up with teleporter (available for free to me) bolt the panels to the racking each one is plug and play clipped together and back to a flashing kit on the roof where the wires are ran inside to the attic where the invertor is located. Then the sparks takes over.