Is lifting weights pointless if I don't bulk?

deadybai

I am currently going to the gym on week four of a 12 week weight lifting program. I am confused as what to do.

First off I'm 6ft 2in 22 male and weigh about 185 pounds. My goal is to do weights for next years GAA season in order to get stronger. In January I am going to work on my cardio before the season gets underway.

I have read loads of things on cutting and bulking and still dont fully understand it. I understand you have to eat roughly 3000+ calories in order to put on muscle and at the same time fat.

Now as I am 13'2 stone I am an ideal weight but I probably have too much fat and not enough muscle.

I currently have MYfitnessPal tracking my food and I eat roughly around 2500 calories a day while having a 40/30/30 split for my macros.

Is the gym a waste of time if I dont bulk and then cut later?

Any help would be really appreciated as I dont understand what I should be eating.

Zillah

Think of calories as money your body spends. The food you eat is the income, and everything that costs calories are expenditures. Your normal bills (keeping you alive, warm and breathing) are the vast majority of it.

Your body needs X amount of calories to maintain everything as it is. X is different for everyone. Let's say your body needs 3,000. To grow muscle your body needs extra calories to fuel that muscle growth - it's an extra expense. So you would need to eat a little more than 3,000 per day so that there is a little bit left over for spending on muscle growth.

Someone like me who doesn't play competitive sports can just cram in 3500+ per day to make sure I'll grow as much muscle as I can as fast as I can, and if my bodyfat goes up a bit it's not the end of the world. I can go on a calorie deficit later (cut) to drop the bodyfat - again with no competitive concerns.

So you have a few choices: you can keep eating exactly what you need every day and keep lifting weights and you'll probably eventually notice a very slow increase in muscle mass and a decrease in body fat, but it could be a little frustrating - but you're not exactly wasting your time, no.

Or you could eat just a little bit extra so you have some spare calories and over time your weight and muscle mass will increase slowly. You won't wake up one day and have the lads calling you fatty.

All that said, you could just do a full blown "eat lots" bulk over the winter, gain decent muscle and some extra body fat, and then go on a calorie deficit for a couple of months before the season begins to get the body fat back down. It takes quite a bit of educating yourself and planning/discipline to get good results in a reasonable time, so I'd consider getting a trainer to go through all of this with you so that you're gaining everything you can from your gym time. Also you're not going to see any major results in one season - 2016 could see some improvements, but keep in mind your goal for the 2017 season too.

(Side note: at your weight X is probably around 2,800 once you factor in exercise. I'd say MyFitnessPal might be underepresenting your intake a little)

Alf Veedersane

It depends on what you want as well. Do you just want to be stronger or do you want to be bigger and stronger?

Also, if you're going to bulk, I don't think the best way to go about it is to just eat a sh*t ton purely because you will end up putting on too much fat and that just hinders gainz because it reduces insulin sensitivity.

deadybai

Zillah wrote: »

Think of calories as money your body spends. The food you eat is the income, and everything that costs calories are expenditures. Your normal bills (keeping you alive, warm and breathing) are the vast majority of it.

Your body needs X amount of calories to maintain everything as it is. X is different for everyone. Let's say your body needs 3,000. To grow muscle your body needs extra calories to fuel that muscle growth - it's an extra expense. So you would need to eat a little more than 3,000 per day so that there is a little bit left over for spending on muscle growth.

Someone like me who doesn't play competitive sports can just cram in 3500+ per day to make sure I'll grow as much muscle as I can as fast as I can, and if my bodyfat goes up a bit it's not the end of the world. I can go on a calorie deficit later (cut) to drop the bodyfat - again with no competitive concerns.

So you have a few choices: you can keep eating exactly what you need every day and keep lifting weights and you'll probably eventually notice a very slow increase in muscle mass and a decrease in body fat, but it could be a little frustrating - but you're not exactly wasting your time, no.

Or you could eat just a little bit extra so you have some spare calories and over time your weight and muscle mass will increase slowly. You won't wake up one day and have the lads calling you fatty.

All that said, you could just do a full blown "eat lots" bulk over the winter, gain decent muscle and some extra body fat, and then go on a calorie deficit for a couple of months before the season begins to get the body fat back down. It takes quite a bit of educating yourself and planning/discipline to get good results in a reasonable time, so I'd consider getting a trainer to go through all of this with you so that you're gaining everything you can from your gym time. Also you're not going to see any major results in one season - 2016 could see some improvements, but keep in mind your goal for the 2017 season too.

(Side note: at your weight X is probably around 2,800 once you factor in exercise. I'd say MyFitnessPal might be underepresenting your intake a little)

Thanks for the reply. Very informative.

So when you talk about mass your are talking about size and strength not just strength? A bulk will make you look bigger but doesn't necessarily mean you are stronger? Am I correct in saying that? If I maintain what I am currently at I will get stronger but I will only notice a small change in size?

Zillah

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

It depends on what you want as well. Do you just want to be stronger or do you want to be bigger and stronger?

Also, if you're going to bulk, I don't think the best way to go about it is to just eat a sh*t ton purely because you will end up putting on too much fat and that just hinders gainz because it reduces insulin sensitivity.

Yah, when I say full blown "eat lots" bulk I do mean eating extra good food, it's not an excuse to be guzzling coke and cakes.

Alf Veedersane

deadybai wrote: »

Thanks for the reply. Very informative.

So when you talk about mass your are talking about size and strength not just strength? A bulk will make you look bigger but doesn't necessarily mean you are stronger? Am I correct in saying that? If I maintain what I am currently at I will get stronger but I will only notice a small change in size?

Extra calories are needed to build muscle. You can't make something out of nothing.

But the muscles aren't automatically strong. You use the calories to build the muscle and then you make the muscle strong.

Zillah

deadybai wrote: »

Thanks for the reply. Very informative.

So when you talk about mass your are talking about size and strength not just strength? A bulk will make you look bigger but doesn't necessarily mean you are stronger? Am I correct in saying that?

When I talk about mass I mean how heavy you are, and when I say muscle mass I mean how much muscle your body has. A bulk makes you both bigger and stronger - assuming you are doing your gym work. Muscle strength and muscle size are generally proportionate - you can't really get bigger without getting stronger. Apparently you can get stronger without getting much bigger but I don't know much about that end of things - maybe Alf will elaborate.

If I maintain what I am currently at I will get stronger but I will only notice a small change in size?

If you work hard in the gym and don't eat extra food you will slowly get a little leaner and a little stronger while staying roughly the same total weight.

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Extra calories are needed to build muscle. You can't make something out of nothing.

But the muscles aren't automatically strong. You use the calories to build the muscle and then you make the muscle strong.

This is the end of things I don't really understand. How on Earth could you work a muscle in a way that makes it bigger but doesn't make it stronger? Like, what rep/set combination does that?

(also, is this not a bit of a side point that is likely just to confuse OP?)

Alf Veedersane

Zillah wrote: »

Apparently you can get stronger without getting much bigger but I don't know much about that end of things - maybe Alf will elaborate.

Improving technique, neural adaptation and motor unit recruitment. That kind of thing.

Alf Veedersane

Zillah wrote: »

This is the end of things I don't really understand. How on Earth could you work a muscle in a way that makes it bigger but doesn't make it stronger? Like, what rep/set combination does that?

(also, is this not a bit of a side point that is likely just to confuse OP?)

Phrased it badly. Of course its more likely to be stronger but the relationship between bigger and stronger isn't 1-to-1.

And for sport, bigger isn't always better. It is a side point though but not totally irrelevant.

ThinkProgress

deadybai wrote: »

I am currently going to the gym on week four of a 12 week weight lifting program. I am confused as what to do.

First off I'm 6ft 2in 22 male and weigh about 185 pounds. My goal is to do weights for next years GAA season in order to get stronger. In January I am going to work on my cardio before the season gets underway.

I have read loads of things on cutting and bulking and still dont fully understand it. I understand you have to eat roughly 3000+ calories in order to put on muscle and at the same time fat.

Now as I am 13'2 stone I am an ideal weight but I probably have too much fat and not enough muscle.

I currently have MYfitnessPal tracking my food and I eat roughly around 2500 calories a day while having a 40/30/30 split for my macros.

Is the gym a waste of time if I dont bulk and then cut later?

Any help would be really appreciated as I dont understand what I should be eating.

Imo I don't think you should focus solely on strength training until january.

Apart from anything else there is really no need to abandon cardio completely in order to increase strength, you can easily do both and achieve great results.

And obviously more so because you mentioned wanting to lose some body fat too... so that's another reason not to abandon cardio work.

If I were you, I would do circuit/interval style training with a heavy emphasis on bodyweight strength exercises. You can do this anywhere really, but ideally you will need some room to do running/sprint work as well.... so a football pitch or running track would be ideal.

Short 50-80 meter sprints at max intensity will be great for improving power/speed/explosiveness and will really help you for GAA season. (even better if you could do hill sprints).

I always found the best strength work to do for a field sport such as GAA is bodyweight exercises. They build excellent functional strength, which is what you need for a sport like that. (push-ups, sit-ups, squat jumps, lunges, chin-ups etc etc)

The advantage of most of those movements too, is that you don't need any equipment for most of them either and you can include them while you're doing the cardio work. (which will help to closely mimmick many of the movements you might perform during a GAA game)

Regarding your diet: If you want to lose bodyfat, you will have to start creating a calorie deficit. I wouldn't worry about bulking as you should not be trying to gain size as this will not aid you much when playing GAA.

It's improved strength you should be focusing on, not increasing your size.

I've been in your situation... it can seem a bit confusing. Hope that helps!

deadybai

ThinkProgress wrote: »

Imo I don't think you should focus solely on strength training until january.

Apart from anything else there is really no need to abandon cardio completely in order to increase strength, you can easily do both and achieve great results.

And obviously more so because you mentioned wanting to lose some body fat too... so that's another reason not to abandon cardio work.

If I were you, I would do circuit/interval style training with a heavy emphasis on bodyweight strength exercises. You can do this anywhere really, but ideally you will need some room to do running/sprint work as well.... so a football pitch or running track would be ideal.

Short 50-80 meter sprints at max intensity will be great for improving power/speed/explosiveness and will really help you for GAA season. (even better if you could do hill sprints).

I always found the best strength work to do for a field sport such as GAA is bodyweight exercises. They build excellent functional strength, which is what you need for a sport like that. (push-ups, sit-ups, squat jumps, lunges, chin-ups etc etc)

The advantage of most of those movements too, is that you don't need any equipment for most of them either and you can include them while you're doing the cardio work. (which will help to closely mimmick many of the movements you might perform during a GAA game)

Regarding your diet: If you want to lose bodyfat, you will have to start creating a calorie deficit. I wouldn't worry about bulking as you should not be trying to gain size as this will not aid you much when playing GAA.

It's improved strength you should be focusing on, not increasing your size.

I've been in your situation... it can seem a bit confusing. Hope that helps!

Thanks for the reply. It is confusing :P .

The reason why Im only doing strength training at the moment is because the season is just over (unfortunately ) and kinda want to take a break for a few weeks with all the ruining . I currently do a half an hour brisk incline walk after my workout for cardio but as the season comes closer Im going to start doing more intense stuff. Once January rolls round the club will be doing fitness training twice a week so my idea was to do this while doing my own cardio on the 'off days'.

I got injured at the end of last year so basically missed the post/preseason stuff and when I got back I found it difficult to mix my own strength training with gaa training. I would barley be able to pick up the hurl because my arms would be wrecked from the weights the day before :pac:

I think that Im probably too weak at the moment which is why Im doing weights instead of bodyweight but when I do increase my strength I can start doing body weight stuff then.

Killgore Trout

Having tried bodyweight work and weight training I believe that the best and quickest way to gain strength is to do weight training.

BW stuff is grand if you have zero budget, can't pay for the gym or have some weird ideological objection to weights. But be prepared for less progress.

Programmes like Starting Strength are perfect to work in with your sport specific training with minimal disruption. I've used it while getting some pretty tough swimming sessions in without any issues.

(which will help to closely mimmick many of the movements you might perform during a GAA game)

IMO you don't want your strength training to mimic sport-specific movements. As in I wouldn't want to my weight work to mimic my swimming as it would actually be disruptive to the swimming movements I'm used to. You want big compound movements that generally improve your whole body's strength.

Eat plenty - unless you start lashing on the flab. Tbh getting too big is never a problem. Getting slightly more muscular is going to be a side effect of strength training. Find me one person who has done a decent strength training program and complained about getting too big.

tastyt

I have to agree with what was said regarding bodyweight training.

Your a decent size weight wise and you will be suprised at how strong you can become with bodyweight exercises. Have a look at the progressive bodyweight exercises online and there is more than enough resistance/weight for a GAA player to reach his goals.

As was said already it is also very functional training that will help with onfield movements. Show me somebody that can do 15+ pull ups or a pistol squat and il bet you have a pretty strong athletic body on your hands.

( this is by no means a " stay away from weights " post as they certainly have their place in sports and will make you stronger. I just believe you should master and be able to lift your own body properly before progressing to heavy weights )

ODEON123

Well you will look bigger if you have less fat and put on muscle if that makes sense, like you will be more defined because of less fat so muscle is protruding more

Remeber that you dont need to look strong to be strong, I recommend benching, dumbell press, squats, deadlifts as the basic type of excercise and expand with harder types of squats etc like bulgarian split squat and just train normally to lose weight and body fat

MightyMandarin

ThinkProgress wrote: »

Imo I don't think you should focus solely on strength training until january.

Apart from anything else there is really no need to abandon cardio completely in order to increase strength, you can easily do both and achieve great results.

And obviously more so because you mentioned wanting to lose some body fat too... so that's another reason not to abandon cardio work.

If I were you, I would do circuit/interval style training with a heavy emphasis on bodyweight strength exercises. You can do this anywhere really, but ideally you will need some room to do running/sprint work as well.... so a football pitch or running track would be ideal.

Short 50-80 meter sprints at max intensity will be great for improving power/speed/explosiveness and will really help you for GAA season. (even better if you could do hill sprints).

I always found the best strength work to do for a field sport such as GAA is bodyweight exercises. They build excellent functional strength, which is what you need for a sport like that. (push-ups, sit-ups, squat jumps, lunges, chin-ups etc etc)

The advantage of most of those movements too, is that you don't need any equipment for most of them either and you can include them while you're doing the cardio work. (which will help to closely mimmick many of the movements you might perform during a GAA game)

Regarding your diet: If you want to lose bodyfat, you will have to start creating a calorie deficit. I wouldn't worry about bulking as you should not be trying to gain size as this will not aid you much when playing GAA.

It's improved strength you should be focusing on, not increasing your size.

I've been in your situation... it can seem a bit confusing. Hope that helps!

I'd question anything Mr 'Chicken is a fibre source' says here.

Increasing size will most definitely help any GAA player, assuming they're already lean-ish. The vast majority of inter-county players carry a decent amount of size nowadays, because it is a more physical game than before.
Regarding 'functional strength', bodyweight exercises are not the only ones for this. If you have access to a gym OP, I strongly recommend you to do squats, deadlifts and bench press as these will help you more than squat jumps or bodyweight lunges. Adding weight to the amount you're lifting over a period of time is a better way to gain strength than strictly bodyweight exercises, although pull-ups and dips are still good exercises.

Sprints are good for improving your sprints, but if you want to build explosiveness and power, then power cleans are much better for this. It's no wonder that sprinters, bobsledders and other athletes who want to increase their explosiveness spend a hell of a lot of time in the gym practising olympic lifts, squats and deadlifts.

As you are a beginner, I wouldn't worry too much about getting fat on a bulk. Aim for roughly 1lb a week gain, and you shouldn't gain much fat. I remember I gained about 25lbs over 6 months and I was actually a bit leaner than I was when I started. Make the most of those 'noob gains' while you can.

ThinkProgress

Killgore Trout wrote: »

BW stuff is grand if you have zero budget, can't pay for the gym or have some weird ideological objection to weights. But be prepared for less progress.

So no money or an "ideological objection" (??) to weights are the only reasons you can see for doing bodyweight strength training? And if something costs less, it must be less effective? :rolleyes:

And less progress in what respect? Size? Strength? (BW movements create very fast results in functional strength)

IMO you don't want your strength training to mimic sport-specific movements.

That seems logical... lol Why would you want to build functional strength that could help you function more efficiently in your sport? (what a crazy notion) :pac:

Getting slightly more muscular is going to be a side effect of strength training.

No sh!t sherlock! haha

MightyMandarin wrote: »

I'd question anything Mr 'Chicken is a fibre source' says here.

Yeah, whatever you do don't judge each point on it's own merits... like an intelligent analytical human being! Just judge them based on a previous point you disagreed with. How very mature and intelligent of you!

Increasing size will most definitely help any GAA player

Strength should be the priority over size for a sport that requires high mobility.

Regarding 'functional strength', bodyweight exercises are not the only ones for this. If you have access to a gym OP, I strongly recommend you to do squats, deadlifts and bench press as these will help you more than squat jumps or bodyweight lunges. Adding weight to the amount you're lifting over a period of time is a better way to gain strength than strictly bodyweight exercises, although pull-ups and dips are still good exercises.

I'm not saying those exercises you suggested are bad for a GAA player to do occasionally, but I really don't see how you can call benchpresses, deadlifts etc "functional strength" for a GAA player? lol

I'd love for you to explain how those exercises add functional strength for a sport where most of the movements are performed at high speed??

Unless of course you don't understand what functional strength is?

Maybe their opponent might jump on their back while they're getting up from the ground, and they'll need heavy weighted squats to mimmick that scenario?

Sprints are good for improving your sprints, but if you want to build explosiveness and power, then power cleans are much better for this. It's no wonder that sprinters, bobsledders and other athletes who want to increase their explosiveness spend a hell of a lot of time in the gym practising olympic lifts, squats and deadlifts.

True, but they spend a hell of a lot more time doing sprints than doing weights in the gym... (there could be a logical reason for that... hmm I wonder?)

Lifting weights is excellent for supplementing most sports. But if you want to get sports specific strength, you have to try to replicate the movements you do in that sport as well.

What you want is strength without too much size/bulkiness. This is the kind strength you want to build for a sport like GAA.

And here's an example of the amazing potential of bodyweight training to achieve that goal. (frank medrano - bodyweight strength expert)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFPsvF3UOdo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvJHw64fxgQ

MightyMandarin

ThinkProgress wrote: »

Yeah, whatever you do don't judge each point on it's own merits... like an intelligent analytical human being! Just judge them based on a previous point you disagreed with. How very mature and intelligent of you!



Strength should be the priority over size for a sport that requires high mobility.



I'm not saying those exercises you suggested are bad for a GAA player to do occasionally, but I really don't see how you can call benchpresses, deadlifts etc "functional strength" for a GAA player? lol

I'd love for you to explain how those exercises add functional strength for a sport where most of the movements are performed at high speed??

Unless of course you don't understand what functional strength is?

Maybe their opponent might jump on their back while they're getting up from the ground, and they'll need heavy weighted squats to mimmick that scenario?



True, but they spend a hell of a lot more time doing sprints than doing weights in the gym... (there could be a logical reason for that... hmm I wonder?)

Lifting weights is excellent for supplementing most sports. But if you want to get sports specific strength, you have to try to replicate the movements you do in that sport as well.

What you want is strength without too much size/bulkiness. This is the kind strength you want to build for a sport like GAA.

And here's an example of the amazing potential of bodyweight training to achieve that goal. (frank medrano - bodyweight strength expert)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFPsvF3UOdo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvJHw64fxgQ

I didn't just disagree with you, everyone did, because what you said was 100% completely flat-out wrong. Anyone can have an opinion, but when your opinion is akin to saying the sky is green, I think it's time to ignore any 'advice' you give.

Strength and size are incompatible? Those powerlifters, olympic lifters, strongmen, gymnasts, GAA players, Rugby players, American footballers etc. must be doing it completely wrong so. And before you turn around and claim they're immobile, Olympic lifters have some of the best mobility of all athletes.

They absolutely are functional for any athlete looking to improve their physical performance. Even if they're just to stop muscular imbalances (they serve a purpose much more than just that) one can never have too strong a deadlift or bench press in GAA or in life.

You realise where power and acceleration come from yes? Acceleration=Force/Mass. If one is stronger, they can apply more force, meaning they can accelerate faster than if they are weaker. Power has to come from somewhere. Oly lifters and other athletes who focus on power have a strong base to build it from. It's physically impossible to snatch 100kg, when your backsquat is only 80kg, so what good is trying to focus on increasing power if there's no strength base to derive it from?

Actually you'd be surprised how little time sprinters and bobsledders spend on the track vs. time in the gym. A guy from my local gym was a bobsledder and has competed for Ireland, and he spoke about how much more their training was geared towards getting stronger and more powerful in the gym rather than spending hours and hours on the track or doing sprint sessions. Yes, sprinting was important for analysing technique, but there's only miniscule amounts of technical changes to make when you're at that level, whereas you can always build on your strength and power.

You seem to be under the belief/notion that increased size is bad for GAA players. If that were the case then I guess guys like Aidan O'Shea, James O'Donoghue and Sean Cavanagh wouldn't be top-level players because they're 'too bulky'.


As an aside, I refrained from inserting any sarcastic or snide remarks about some of the, quite frankly, idiotic things you said in your last post. It's not my style and I don't see how it benefits any argument/discussion. You evidently don't have the sort of maturity required to do this, unfortunately.

Mellor

tastyt wrote: »

Show me somebody that can do 15+ pull ups or a pistol squat and il bet you have a pretty strong athletic body on your hands.

I really wish that was true. :P


As for bodyweight vrs weights. It's a stupid argument.
The best approach is to do both. Suggesting somebody does soley one, or the other is just stupid imo.

If the OP is still reading, do following imo;
Train strength and power: Use resistance, both weights and bodyweight
Work on your mobility, a lot
Train you cardiovascular systems: tempo runs, intervals and repeat sprints.

I'd struggle to see how somebody could find a fault with the above. But no doubt they will.

ThinkProgress wrote: »

IMO you don't want your strength training to mimic sport-specific movements.

That seems logical... lol Why would you want to build functional strength that could help you function more efficiently in your sport? (what a crazy notion) :pac:

Lifting weights is excellent for supplementing most sports. But if you want to get sports specific strength, you have to try to replicate the movements you do in that sport as well.

Replicated the sports movement specific under resistance is generally regard as a pretty bad idea. That's what the previous poster was referring to I'd imagine.
It might sound good at first. But it’s fairly stupid when you think about it.

Sports specific training is fine, great even. But adding load to sports specific movements to taking it to a ridiculous degree.
Sports specific training doesn’t not equate to sports specific movements.
It sounds good on paper, adding load to something specific like swinging a golfclub or throwing a ball to make the movement “faster”. But it doesn’t work, in fact it’s been shown to have to opposite effect. Studies have shown that warming up first with loaded bats/clubs results in slower swings with the regular one. Having a baseball pitcher throw a 1kg baseball won’t make his regular throw faster – there is a reason the pro’s don’t train like that. It was likely tried out at one stage.
The reason is performing these movements under resistance affects the mechanics of the movement. It also a affects the CNS recruitment of muscles.

That’s not what function sports training is about.

some info here

I'm not saying those exercises you suggested are bad for a GAA player to do occasionally, but I really don't see how you can call benchpresses, deadlifts etc "functional strength" for a GAA player? lol
I'd love for you to explain how those exercises add functional strength for a sport where most of the movements are performed at high speed??
Unless of course you don't understand what functional strength is?

Functional strength as a concept has been bastardised to the degree that it’s a meaningless phrase these days. There is no one sensible definition of functional strength that I’ve.
I can definitely consider deadlifts to be functional. You obvious don’t. So what is “functional strength” in your opinion.

And here's an example of the amazing potential of bodyweight training to achieve that goal. (frank medrano - bodyweight strength expert)

Frank Medrano established his based with weights. He was training with weights for 4 years before he moved to bodyweight stuff.
Even then, he says it’s mostly bodyweight, not even solely bodyweight.

You Mirin?

If you need 4,000+ cals to bulk you'll honestly be much happier and more successful if you take more of an iifym approach to hitting your macros. Obviously don't go crazy and eat pizzas or fried foods everyday, but try to eat as well as you can and if you feel like it and it'll fit in with how many calories you've left to get then there's no harm having a McDonald's or whatever choice of food you'd like. You'll understand more if you're someone who's tried bulking on over 4,000 calories. I think people who haven't will be unaware of just how much food that can be.


When it comes to cutting just be sure to clean up your diet and if you must you could have a small cheat meal each week or every couple of weeks if you can hold out. Unless you're planning to compete in bodybuilding there's honestly no point in putting yourself through the pain and agony that trying to stick to an absolutely perfect, clean diet can cause. You'll have guys who're natural that'll avoid eating out with friends every once in a while or eating with family because they're worried about their macros.


Other than that, train for strength until you're happy with your strength levels and then decide if you want to train for size or continue gaining strength.

Tar.Aldarion

It's not pointless, you will get stronger, I am getting much stronger when I lift and I've been losing weight for over a year consistently, albeit been slacking off weights for ages due to injury. You get much stronger without getting bigger, I guess especially at the start.

Killgore Trout

Mellor wrote: »

Replicated the sports movement specific under resistance is generally regard as a pretty bad idea. That's what the previous poster was referring to I'd imagine.
It might sound good at first. But it’s fairly stupid when you think about it.

Sports specific training is fine, great even. But adding load to sports specific movements to taking it to a ridiculous degree.
Sports specific training doesn’t not equate to sports specific movements.
It sounds good on paper, adding load to something specific like swinging a golfclub or throwing a ball to make the movement “faster”. But it doesn’t work, in fact it’s been shown to have to opposite effect. Studies have shown that warming up first with loaded bats/clubs results in slower swings with the regular one. Having a baseball pitcher throw a 1kg baseball won’t make his regular throw faster – there is a reason the pro’s don’t train like that. It was likely tried out at one stage.
The reason is performing these movements under resistance affects the mechanics of the movement. It also a affects the CNS recruitment of muscles.

That’s not what function sports training is about.

some info here

Exactly what I meant, thanks.

ODEON123

Mellor wrote: »

I really wish that was true. :P


As for bodyweight vrs weights. It's a stupid argument.
The best approach is to do both. Suggesting somebody does soley one, or the other is just stupid imo.
olely bodyweight.

Your 100% right, pistol squats arent overly difficult I can do a few once you have good balance and can squat a reasonable amount you can do them no bother

Yer Aul One

I have never cut before, well not intentionally. What alterations in people's work out do they apply during the cut?

Interested to know if people alter training plans and/or lift lighter weight, concentrate more on cardio etc. (Say for someone predominantly training strength, weight and bodyweight, with a light focus on cardio. Lifts 5 times a week which includes 2 leg days. Lifting roughly 70-75% 1RMs. Goal to continue to get stronger but lose some excess weight for the Bondi summer)

Can you feel like you have less energy to hit your usual numbers? How long would a cut usually last?

I don't think this is hijacking the thread because its such a similar question but apologies if it is construed that way.

You Mirin?

Yer Aul One wrote: »

I have never cut before, well not intentionally. What alterations in people's work out do they apply during the cut?

Interested to know if people alter training plans and/or lift lighter weight, concentrate more on cardio etc. (Say for someone predominantly training strength, weight and bodyweight, with a light focus on cardio. Lifts 5 times a week which includes 2 leg days. Lifting roughly 70-75% 1RMs. Goal to continue to get stronger but lose some excess weight for the Bondi summer)

Can you feel like you have less energy to hit your usual numbers? How long would a cut usually last?

I don't think this is hijacking the thread because its such a similar question but apologies if it is construed that way.

The most important change is cals. The best thing to do is try to do a very slow, gradual cut by eating at a deficit of ~250 but a lot of people can't or choose not to because then they mightn't be as lean and reach their ideal bf% in time for what they're cutting for. Instead, to quicken the cut a bit, lots of people will go for deficits of 500 or even more. Either is fine, really, and will get your results but with a higher deficit it's possible to lose a bit more muscle than you would with a lower deficit. If I was cutting I'd probably do it over 8-12 weeks but if I reached my ideal bf% before then I'll just start maintenance.


Honestly, unless you plan on competing, the best thing to do for most people is avoid cutting and bulking, cutting and bulking over and over. If you're fatter than you want to be and also want to gain muscle then cut down to your ideal bf% and then lean bulk indefinitely. If you're a skinny guy who already has an ideal bf% then just begin lean bulking indefinitely. From here, over time, adjust your cals to maintain and stay within the regions of your ideal bf%.


I wouldn't change much with regards to the split during a cut, just be sure to always be lifting with intensity, good form and stay consistent. For cardio, I do jumping rope and the only thing I'd change for this during a cut is doing HIIT with it instead of just skipping until I'm tired/bored like I normally do. Jumping rope is honestly the best cardio to do HIIT with, by the way, and it's definitely the most fun and enjoyable as well because of the linear progression in the skill it requires that makes it feel rewarding (like when you can do crossovers and different tricks etc.)

Yer Aul One

You Mirin? wrote: »

Jumping rope is honestly the best cardio to do HIIT with, by the way, and it's definitely the most fun and enjoyable as well because of the linear progression in the skill it requires that makes it feel rewarding (like when you can do crossovers and different tricks etc.)

You ever find it hard on the knees? Coincidentally I picked up the rope for the first time in a couple of years only a couple of days ago. I wasn't very good but enjoyed it.

You Mirin?

Yer Aul One wrote: »

You ever find it hard on the knees? Coincidentally I picked up the rope for the first time in a couple of years only a couple of days ago. I wasn't very good but enjoyed it.

Not really. I know it can be hard on the knees and even damaging but that'd only be if you did it excessively. Short 15-20 minute sessions are more than enough and get my heart going much more than any jog. I never liked cardio until I started doing it, now I look forward to it almost as much as I do chest day lol. Most people could easily do it in their living room or kitchen while playing music or have something on the TV.

Mellor

Yer Aul One wrote: »

I have never cut before, well not intentionally. What alterations in people's work out do they apply during the cut?

Interested to know if people alter training plans and/or lift lighter weight, concentrate more on cardio etc. (Say for someone predominantly training strength, weight and bodyweight, with a light focus on cardio. Lifts 5 times a week which includes 2 leg days. Lifting roughly 70-75% 1RMs. Goal to continue to get stronger but lose some excess weight for the Bondi summer)

I keep up the strength work. Focusing on maintaining my 5RM, and even adding reps or weight to it if possible.
Adding some metcon type high tempo sessions, and some sort cardio block (run, rower, assualt bike, etc).
These can ve separate session, ie 2/3 days strength, 2/3 Metcons.
Or everyday can be a strength session followed my a metcon/cardio.

Where abouts in Bondi do you train?

Yer Aul One

Mellor wrote: »

I keep up the strength work. Focusing on maintaining my 5RM, and even adding reps or weight to it if possible.
Adding some metcon type high tempo sessions, and some sort cardio block (run, rower, assualt bike, etc).
These can ve separate session, ie 2/3 days strength, 2/3 Metcons.
Or everyday can be a strength session followed my a metcon/cardio.

Where abouts in Bondi do you train?

Hey mate, I did notice before you were in Sydney, I was going to PM you to ask where to get cheap protein (ended up using the old reliable MyProtein).
I have a work gym in the CBD and I have a temporary membership for SNAP Fitness. I went into Fitness First (Platinum) and Anytime Fit Fitness for trials but didn't love them. Anytime was basic and FF was stuffed full of posers.
Where do you train, any recommendations (just here 4 weeks now).

Mellor

Yer Aul One wrote: »

Hey mate, I did notice before you were in Sydney, I was going to PM you to ask where to get cheap protein (ended up using the old reliable MyProtein).
I have a work gym in the CBD and I have a temporary membership for SNAP Fitness. I went into Fitness First (Platinum) and Anytime Fit Fitness for trials but didn't love them. Anytime was basic and FF was stuffed full of posers.
Where do you train, any recommendations (just here 4 weeks now).

Did MyProtein deliever to sydney? That's new.
I usually use bulkpowders. But its not as cheap and MP.

Snap is ok. cheap membership, but limited more equipment.
Anytime has the benefit of 25 hours, not really a plus for me.
Fitness platinum in bondi is full of posers. Especially in the dumbell/mirror area. But there's an olympic area out the back that's barely used. Platforms, bumper plates, oly bars, two big racks. (this is where I train atm).

There's another Fitness First on spring street, this is being renovated at the moment. Getting something like $160k in equipment next week. I'll prob move to that one once it's finished. It was always the grittier of the two in Bondi, less posers.
If you are in the CBD check out FitnessFirst Bond street.

Pretty sure FF, snap, and anytime all let you use multiple locations. Best option is probably who ever has a gym near your house and near work.

ThinkProgress

MightyMandarin wrote: »

Actually you'd be surprised how little time sprinters and bobsledders spend on the track vs. time in the gym.

The bad ones maybe. Usain Bolt spends FAR more time on the track than in the gym!

You seem to be under the belief/notion that increased size is bad for GAA players.

Too much bulk will be bad yes. It will slow you down in a sport like GAA... but I never said upper body strength was not valuable. (it's about getting the balance right)

The vast majority of the physical training you should be doing for a sport like GAA would be cardio-based. Supplementing this with a modest amount of strength work is fine... (and useful if done intelligently).

But cardio-based work should make up the vast majority of your training. In an ideal scenario, you would incorporate strength exercises into your cardio workouts. (rather than doing sessions that are exclusively strength-based)

Mellor wrote: »

So what is “functional strength” in your opinion.

I would consider bodyweight movements as more functional than using external resistance from weights. Bodyweight strength exercises use your own body for resistance... which is closer to what you might encounter in a match.

I never said they perfectly replicated the movements in your chosen sport, but some might be similar. I'm not disregarding lifting weights. (I've repeated that several times in this thread, but people still seem to think I am)

Tbh, I think pure strength work in general should not be a major component in training for a sport like GAA. It should only be used to supplement the main cardio-based work. And if done intelligently, can certainly be beneficial.

It should never replace your cardio work. It should only be additional training.

I've seen guys who did no strength work out jump and out muscle bigger guys, simply because they were fitter and sharper and had superior energy levels.

That's not intended as an anti-strength training remark. Like I said, if done in moderation as supplemental training... it certainly can have a valuable place in someone's program.

Frank Medrano established his based with weights. He was training with weights for 4 years before he moved to bodyweight stuff. Even then, he says it’s mostly bodyweight, not even solely bodyweight.

I never said it was solely bodyweight. But he favors mostly bodyweight training... and he also does cardio alongside most of his workouts.

I think the combination of bodyweight style workouts and HIIT cardio is partly the reason why he has such a lean well proportioned physique. (He also used to compete in track & field AFAIK)

He is strong, but not bulky. That should be what most GAA players are aiming for with their strength training. (imho anyway)

Mellor

ThinkProgress wrote: »

I would consider bodyweight movements as more functional than using external resistance from weights. Bodyweight strength exercises use your own body for resistance... which is closer to what you might encounter in a match

That doesn't really answer the questions. Saying BW is more functional is fine. But it doesn't explain what you think "functional strength" actually is.
As I said above, it's been bastardised endlessly and to me the phrase is virtually meaningless.

I'm a big fan of BW exercises but I don't think you are any more likely to encounter Pull-ups, handstands...etc in a match compared to presses, deadlifts etc

colossus-x

I think it's really sad that the ball team sports players think it's just a matter of how strong you are.

In rugby I can understand it ( to a degree ) but in GAA? Does skill, aptitude and passion not count anymore or had it been reduced to all brawn.

UnitedWeStand

deadybai wrote: »

I am currently going to the gym on week four of a 12 week weight lifting program. I am confused as what to do.

First off I'm 6ft 2in 22 male and weigh about 185 pounds. My goal is to do weights for next years GAA season in order to get stronger. In January I am going to work on my cardio before the season gets underway.

I have read loads of things on cutting and bulking and still dont fully understand it. I understand you have to eat roughly 3000+ calories in order to put on muscle and at the same time fat.

Now as I am 13'2 stone I am an ideal weight but I probably have too much fat and not enough muscle.

I currently have MYfitnessPal tracking my food and I eat roughly around 2500 calories a day while having a 40/30/30 split for my macros.

Is the gym a waste of time if I dont bulk and then cut later?

Any help would be really appreciated as I dont understand what I should be eating.

Some advice here is relevant. All you need to eat to get big is protein. That's what makes muscles grow when you rip them during a workout. If you aim for around 150g of protein a day for your age you'll grow. Ignore people mentioning carbs or fats they do not have anything to do with muscle growth. Especially carbohydrates they are only used for energy. Fat does play a role in certain cellular processes but for muscle growth? Simply, eat around 150g of protein. You will see results, that's what's needed for repairing muscle tissue providing your workout was sufficient.

Blacktie.

UnitedWeStand wrote: »

Some advice here is relevant. All you need to eat to get big is protein. That's what makes muscles grow when you rip them during a workout. If you aim for around 150g of protein a day for your age you'll grow. Ignore people mentioning carbs or fats they do not have anything to do with muscle growth. Especially carbohydrates they are only used for energy. Fat does play a role in certain cellular processes but for muscle growth? Simply, eat around 150g of protein. You will see results, that's what's needed for repairing muscle tissue providing your workout was sufficient.

Lol.

Do you not need these useless carbs for energy and glycogen stores? Or the useless fat for maintaining testosterone levels? And calorie surplus? Sure who cares about that it's all just broscience really isn't it :rolleyes:

Tar.Aldarion

"What age are you"
"oh thats about 150g of protein so!"

UnitedWeStand

Blacktie. wrote: »

Lol.

Do you not need these useless carbs for energy and glycogen stores? Or the useless fat for maintaining testosterone levels? And calorie surplus? Sure who cares about that it's all just broscience really isn't it :rolleyes:

Carbohydrates are the most natural energy source for the body. They are the primary energy source for muscle tissue as it is broken down so easily for glycolysis.

However, both protein and fats can enter the muscles and be used for energy. Carbohydrates are not the only source. The better thing about consuming fats for energy is that excess fat isn't necessarily going to be stored as body fat due to fats role in so many cellular processes. Carbohydrate however if taken in excess will only be stored as fat.

Cheers for the condescending reply by the way.

MightyMandarin

UnitedWeStand wrote: »

Some advice here is relevant. All you need to eat to get big is protein. That's what makes muscles grow when you rip them during a workout. If you aim for around 150g of protein a day for your age you'll grow. Ignore people mentioning carbs or fats they do not have anything to do with muscle growth. Especially carbohydrates they are only used for energy. Fat does play a role in certain cellular processes but for muscle growth? Simply, eat around 150g of protein. You will see results, that's what's needed for repairing muscle tissue providing your workout was sufficient.

This is nonsense. Protein is incredibly important for building muscle, but it's meaningless if your caloric intake is minimal. I can eat 150g of protein a day if I eat about 5 chicken breasts, but I sure as hell won't build muscle doing that. Why? Because instead of the protein being used to repair my muscle fibres, it'll be used as a source of energy and burned just like 150g of carbs or fats would.

Personally, I don't pay too much attention to how much fats or carbs I eat, as long as my calories are high, but I most certainly cannot eat 2500calories worth of chicken breasts each day.

Also, what has age got to do with calculating his optimal protein intake? A a silly point to make imo.

Zillah

UnitedWeStand wrote: »

Cheers for the condescending reply by the way.

You kind of earned it, friend.
(see post immediately above mine)

ThinkProgress

Mellor wrote: »

That doesn't really answer the questions. Saying BW is more functional is fine. But it doesn't explain what you think "functional strength" actually is.
As I said above, it's been bastardised endlessly and to me the phrase is virtually meaningless.

I'm a big fan of BW exercises but I don't think you are any more likely to encounter Pull-ups, handstands...etc in a match compared to presses, deadlifts etc

I wouldn't say its meaningless. It just perhaps means something slightly different to different people. If you've ever climbed a rock wall, you'll be familiar with the idea of functional strength. (bulkiness is not an advantage in that scenario)

Useful strength... that's the simplest way I could describe it. Which of course means something different to everyone.

A GAA player (imo) would benefit more from dynamic strength training with a higher intensity than your average gym weight training program would provide.

That's not to say lifting weights is useless. I just consider BW training superior for producing lean well balanced strength without the bulkiness.

colossus-x wrote: »

I think it's really sad that the ball team sports players think it's just a matter of how strong you are.

In rugby I can understand it ( to a degree ) but in GAA? Does skill, aptitude and passion not count anymore or had it been reduced to all brawn.

Skill and high level cardio fitness will still always be paramount in a sport such as GAA. The role of upper body strength is overplayed quite a bit. (although not irrelevant obviously)

Blacktie. wrote: »

Lol.

Do you not need these useless carbs for energy and glycogen stores? Or the useless fat for maintaining testosterone levels? And calorie surplus? Sure who cares about that it's all just broscience really isn't it :rolleyes:

People go a bit mad with the whole calorie surplus idea. Even doing crazy stuff like forcing themselves to eat extra calories when they're not hungry! Calorie surplus advice really only applies to high level bodybuilders looking to gain massive amounts of body mass.

The average guy in the gym looking to add a bit of muscle shouldn't be eating a huge calorie surplus or doing crazy stuff like drinking weight gainers etc...

Eat good quality food (don't overeat), train intelligently, rest well... your body will look great.

Alf Veedersane

ThinkProgress wrote: »

Calorie surplus advice really only applies to high level bodybuilders looking to gain massive amounts of body mass.

The average guy in the gym looking to add a bit of muscle shouldn't be eating a huge calorie surplus or doing crazy stuff like drinking weight gainers etc...

You can be in a surplus without being in a huge surplus.

Calorie surplus advice applies to anyone looking to add muscle.

deadlybuzzman

ThinkProgress wrote: »

People go a bit mad with the whole calorie surplus idea. Even doing crazy stuff like forcing themselves to eat extra calories when they're not hungry!

If I didn't force myself to eat or do tricks like eat really fast so my body doesn't get time to register when I'm full, I would be at least 6 to 9 kg lighter than I am now and I'm a long way from being big.
There's a lot of things being talked about as if theyre absolutes that are set in stone when really people vary too much for that to be so.
Some sports coach's that know their stuff are hesitant to use heavy weights but will use light weights explosively. But I've played football against GAA players that were bigger than me but that I could hold off, turn and bully quite easily because I was stronger.
In short I exploited their weakness. Would they be better GAA players if they weren't so easy to push around? Absolutely

ThinkProgress

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

You can be in a surplus without being in a huge surplus.

Calorie surplus advice applies to anyone looking to add muscle.

You can, but in a gym culture that encourages that "lift big - eat big" mantra... it's difficult for people to have discipline and self control. Besides I would consider calorie surplus advice to be a highly debatable practice in general for gaining strength.

I have very good strength levels without any bulk. I've never intentionally consumed surplus calories - I just eat according to my appetite.

Many of the guys I follow in the world of BW training, rock climbing etc don't follow any kind of calorie surplus. The example I gave earlier of frank medrano - I've never read anything about him eating surplus calories to gain strength.

This guy: Denis Minin. (famous ukrainian BW calisthenics trainer)



I've never read anything about him eating a calorie surplus. He's also against using supplements and only consumes real whole foods.

He also doesn't believe in counting reps or sets. He trains for volume and strength endurance too. (very similar to the training style of many rock climbers). He has also mentioned doing some gymnastics and boxing training... and is a big proponent of cardio training in general too.

The idea that you must consciously consume surplus calories on a regular basis in order to gain strength and muscles is a bit of a myth imo. (I see too many examples that contradict that advice for it just to be a coincidence)

Eating big will give you strength, but not the type of useful strength that's needed in something like GAA which also requires high mobility.

deadlybuzzman wrote: »

If I didn't force myself to eat or do tricks like eat really fast so my body doesn't get time to register when I'm full, I would be at least 6 to 9 kg lighter than I am now and I'm a long way from being big.
There's a lot of things being talked about as if theyre absolutes that are set in stone when really people vary too much for that to be so.
Some sports coach's that know their stuff are hesitant to use heavy weights but will use light weights explosively. But I've played football against GAA players that were bigger than me but that I could hold off, turn and bully quite easily because I was stronger.
In short I exploited their weakness. Would they be better GAA players if they weren't so easy to push around? Absolutely

Exactly. It's about strength not necessarily size or bulk.

But there are many other factors that come into play when you talk about functional strength. Not just merely the size of the muscles.

Most situations on a GAA pitch won't require static strength movements. They will require dynamic movements.

This is where all-round fitness and conditioning comes in. And the style of strength work you do. Do you have the fitness, mobility, agility, flexibility etc to use what strength you have during a game?

Do you have strength endurance? No good having big muscles if they weigh you down too much and reduce your stamina during a game! How do you get strength endurance...?

Doing heavy static compound lifts in the gym and eating big is NOT a good way of achieving the type of strength required for something like GAA.

Alf Veedersane

ThinkProgress wrote: »

You can, but in a gym culture that encourages that "lift big - eat big" mantra... it's difficult for people to have discipline and self control. Besides I would consider calorie surplus advice to be a highly debatable practice in general for gaining strength.

I have very good strength levels without any bulk. I've never intentionally consumed surplus calories - I just eat according to my appetite.

Many of the guys I follow in the world of BW training, rock climbing etc don't follow any kind of calorie surplus. The example I gave earlier of frank medrano - I've never read anything about him eating surplus calories to gain strength.

This guy: Denis Minin. (famous ukrainian BW calisthenics trainer)



I've never read anything about him eating a calorie surplus. He's also against using supplements and only consumes real whole foods.

He also doesn't believe in counting reps or sets. He trains for volume and strength endurance too. (very similar to the training style of many rock climbers). He has also mentioned doing some gymnastics and boxing training... and is a big proponent of cardio training in general too.

The idea that you must consciously consume surplus calories on a regular basis in order to gain strength and muscles is a bit of a myth imo. (I see too many examples that contradict that advice for it just to be a coincidence)

Eating big will give you strength, but not the type of useful strength that's needed in something like GAA which also requires high mobility.

Frank Medrano would have to eat a surplus to build muscle. You don't need to eat at a surplus to increase strength. Building muscle and increasing strength aren't the same thing.

Building muscle and increasing strength don't have to have result in reduced mobility.

Mellor

ThinkProgress wrote: »

You can, but in a gym culture that encourages that "lift big - eat big" mantra... it's difficult for people to have discipline and self control.

I think the issue is that you are arguing against the above mantra, when it doesn't really exist here. Sure its probably the norm on BB.com, but it's not really wheel out here.
The only people here that eat big are those where it's directly condicive to their goals.
And virtually the only time a person is recommend to eat more, when the specifically want to put on weight (the same thread pops up regularly, the skinny guy who can't put on weight)

Besides I would consider calorie surplus advice to be a highly debatable practice in general for gaining strength.

I have very good strength levels without any bulk. I've never intentionally consumed surplus calories - I just eat according to my appetite.

... I've never read anything about him eating surplus calories to gain strength.

The idea that you must consciously consume surplus calories on a regular basis in order to gain strength and muscles is a bit of a myth imo.

Has anybody said you need to eat surplus calories to gain strength? I don't certainly don't think that you do.

Surplus calories for gaining mass (fat mass or lean mass)
Strength training for getting stronger.

It all depends on the goals. If you want to get stronger, but not bigger (say for sports) then you'd probably wouldn't bulk.
On the other hand, if the goal was to get as strong as possible, regardless of size. Then the obvious choice is to bulk and get bigger and even stronger.

power pants

well that's just confirmed it, it is my work colleague.

Zillah

power pants wrote: »

well that's just confirmed it, it is my work colleague.

Flash the gunz the next time you walk past him.

power pants

he's always eyeing them up tbf, think he feels inadequate but he is adamant, 10 cals, lots of protein zero carbs will get you huge.

the other gem is never train to failure when doing reps, puts too much pressure on your CNS. best to avoid

ThinkProgress

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Frank Medrano would have to eat a surplus to build muscle. You don't need to eat at a surplus to increase strength. Building muscle and increasing strength aren't the same thing.

Building muscle and increasing strength don't have to have result in reduced mobility.

He doesn't though. (or at least he doesn't make a conscious effort to do so from what I've read)

If you're looking to gain decent strength levels and a degree of muscularity, while maintaining all-round fitness... eating big is neither necessary or useful. (yet it seems to be given out by many people as general one-size-fits-all type advice)

Strength training is a delicate balancing act. If you abuse it, and also eat surplus calories... you'll start to develop unbalanced fitness/physique and among other things, yes, reduce your mobility.

It depends what you mean by mobility though. A gymnast has great mobility within a certain range of motions for a short duration. But their size and body type would restrict them in some other movements. I've seen this first hand with a friend of mine, and tbh I never really would have believed it until I seen it.

I would have always considered gymnasts to be agile and mobile enough not to struggle at any movements, but in my experience it's really not the case.

To have really great mobility, it's better to be light. Having large heavy muscles (particularly upper body) is going to reduce mobility to some degree. (and hence stamina too)

Mellor wrote: »

I think the issue is that you are arguing against the above mantra, when it doesn't really exist here. Sure its probably the norm on BB.com, but it's not really wheel out here.
The only people here that eat big are those where it's directly condicive to their goals.
And virtually the only time a person is recommend to eat more, when the specifically want to put on weight (the same thread pops up regularly, the skinny guy who can't put on weight)

I think it does exist here. But it's not the only thing I've taken issue with... there are other things closely linked with that too.

Has anybody said you need to eat surplus calories to gain strength? I don't certainly don't think that you do.

That's part of the problem... many people bundle the two things up together. (in fairness it's usually unintentional)

And many people come on here looking for advice, but not fully understanding what they want/need... which adds to that confusion.

There are people on here that I'm fairly certain train specifically for aesthetics. (muscular aesthetics). But many of those same people are giving strength advice to athletes who need a slightly different type of training.

Mr. CooL ICE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVVUtV5W85I

Alf Veedersane

ThinkProgress wrote: »

He doesn't though. (or at least he doesn't make a conscious effort to do so from what I've read)

If you're looking to gain decent strength levels and a degree of muscularity, while maintaining all-round fitness... eating big is neither necessary or useful. (yet it seems to be given out by many people as general one-size-fits-all type advice)

You talk about bulking as if it's similar to Eric Cartman taking Weight Gain 4000 and waddling around shouting "BEEFCAKE".

You also seem to be assuming that people lump strength and size together.

There's nothing wrong with bulking for the right reasons and to the right extent. There are plenty of people that could improve their performance by adding muscle to their frame for their sport. It doesn't have to reduce mobility or speed.

And if Frank Medrano wants to add muscle he has to eat in a surplus. He's not a snowflake. That doesn't mean he has to necessarily make a conscious effort to track it nor does it mean that because he doesn't state it explicitly he doesn't do it.

Mellor

ThinkProgress wrote: »

He doesn't though. (or at least he doesn't make a conscious effort to do so from what I've read)

If you're looking to gain decent strength levels and a degree of muscularity, while maintaining all-round fitness... eating big is neither necessary or useful. (yet it seems to be given out by many people as general one-size-fits-all type advice)

In order to build muscle, you need an energy surplus, that's a undeniable biological fact.
I suppose its also a fact from a physics point of view. You can't create mass/energy from nothing, only change its form, etc.

You seam to be equating an energy surplus with "eat big to get big". I don't know if this is on purpose to create a strawman, or you genuinely are confusing the two.

If Frank Medrano increased lean mass at some point, he was in energy surplus to do so. Since then, his maintenance calories were also higher.

A gymnast has great mobility within a certain range of motions for a short duration. But their size and body type would restrict them in some other movements. I've seen this first hand with a friend of mine, and tbh I never really would have believed it until I seen it.

I would say I don't believe it, but I don't really know what you are refering to.
Can you describe it?

To have really great mobility, it's better to be light. Having large heavy muscles (particularly upper body) is going to reduce mobility to some degree. (and hence stamina too)

At a certain point, tissue mass can impact mobility, in certain regards. For example, knee flexion is limited by the mass of both the hamstring and calves. I agree there.
But for most joints, mass isn't the limiting factor. For example hip flexion and extension will reach end limit long before quds/glutes/hammers get in the way. Unless you are a contortionist, its not the issue for most people.

That's part of the problem... many people bundle the two things up together. (in fairness it's usually unintentional)

There's nothing wrong with the bundling them together if it suits the goal.
And if check around most beginner thread, bigger and stronger is a common goal.

There are people on here that I'm fairly certain train specifically for aesthetics. (muscular aesthetics).

I'm sure there are too. THere's nothing wrong with that, if thats what they want.

But many of those same people are giving strength advice to athletes who need a slightly different type of training.

Really? Don't think I've seen that often. do you have any examples?