Senile Richard Dawkins falls deeper into the rabbit hole of popular hatred

Vomit

lawlolawl wrote: »

I love that Dawkins breaks religious people by making them look so utterly foolish that they have to attack every single thing that he does "wrong".

Sorry guys, he has come up with numerous extensively explained reasons as to why you are basically children believing in Santy Claus.

A perfectly reasonable man living in a world full of buffoons.

You've walked in here expecting a Theist VS Atheist debate. This is not one. Maybe read the OP??

lawlolawl

Vomit wrote: »

You've walked in here expecting a Theist VS Atheist debate. This is not one. Maybe read the OP??

It's always good to have that debate just to show religious people what utter fools they are.

I'll support pretty much anyone who publicly ridicules them or shows them the error of their ways. Religious people are holding back society on a planetary scale.

Technocentral

Vomit wrote: »

Yes, this is a point I've made in the past- ivory tower atheism is ALL that Dawkins cares about nowadays, and it doesn't matter to him who he associates with or who or what he appears to support. A little awareness would go a long way with Dawkins, but he's in his own bubble.

Like the Palestinian people?

" Dawkins said that "can you explain why Palestinian Arabs should be the ones to pay for Hitler's crimes? You surely aren't going to stoop to some kind of biblical justification for picking on that land rather than, say, Bavaria or Madagascar?[73] Dawkins also expressed anger over Israeli actions during the 2014 Israel–Gaza conflict. He tweeted, "[t]he extent of the destruction in Gaza is obscene. Poor people. Poor people who have lost their homes, their relatives, everything.""

Also a big supporter of gay rights and anti monarchy, stuff that most liberal/left types also advocate. He just rightly hates religious extremists of any type.

One eyed Jack

lawlolawl wrote: »

I love that Dawkins breaks religious people by making them look so utterly foolish that they have to attack every single thing that he does "wrong".

Sorry guys, he has come up with numerous extensively explained reasons as to why you are basically children believing in Santy Claus.

A perfectly reasonable man living in a world full of buffoons.

We're not talking Emperors new clothes here, the man is a cantankerous old fart, he hasn't broken anyone, merely made himself look foolish to the point where more people who identify as atheist are seeking to dissociate themselves from his almost parodying representation of atheism.

The man just doesn't draw the same attention he used to, and when that validation has waned, he has to get more and more extreme, and the veil of intellectualism that hid his seething bitterness is falling away to reveal the hateful, spiteful little man underneath.

The Backwards Man

Nothing I like better than reading a thread filled with mature, rational, eloquently composed debate of a Monday evening.

lawlolawl

One eyed Jack wrote: »

We're not talking Emperors new clothes here, the man is a cantankerous old fart, he hasn't broken anyone, merely made himself look foolish to the point where more people who identify as atheist are seeking to dissociate themselves from his almost parodying representation of atheism.

The man just doesn't draw the same attention he used to, and when that validation has waned, he has to get more and more extreme, and the veil of intellectualism that hid his seething bitterness is falling away to reveal the hateful, spiteful little man underneath.

He should be bitter, we all should.

Religion has made an absolute balls of society and held it back hundreds if not thousands of years with its idiocy.

Damn right and people should be bitter about this childish nonsense.

Look at most of the military conflicts in the world at the moment. A bunch of cavemen getting worked up about perceived sleights to their magic man.

Vomit

Technocentral wrote: »

Like the Palestinian people?

" Dawkins said that "can you explain why Palestinian Arabs should be the ones to pay for Hitler's crimes? You surely aren't going to stoop to some kind of biblical justification for picking on that land rather than, say, Bavaria or Madagascar?[73] Dawkins also expressed anger over Israeli actions during the 2014 Israel–Gaza conflict. He tweeted, "[t]he extent of the destruction in Gaza is obscene. Poor people. Poor people who have lost their homes, their relatives, everything.""

Good for him- yet here he is sitting down with Bill Maher, who holds the opposite viewpoint to what you just quoted, nodding along with his absurdities because he knows that he's on TV yet again with a platform.

Donkey Oaty

The Backwards Man wrote: »

Nothing I like better than reading a thread filled with mature, rational, eloquently composed debate of a Monday evening.

I've a feeling that little rascal Sean Thomas/Tom Knox - or at least somebody inspired by him - may have had a hand in starting this thread...

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/seanthomas/100225278/revealed-how-i-posed-as-a-left-wing-nutjob-on-the-guardians-comment-is-free-and-got-away-with-it/

karaokeman

I lost my respect for him when he said women bearing a child with Down Syndrome should intently abort.

Vomit

lawlolawl wrote: »

He should be bitter, we all should.

Religion has made an absolute balls of society and held it back hundreds if not thousands of years with its idiocy.

Damn right and people should be bitter about this childish nonsense.

Look at most of the military conflicts in the world at the moment. A bunch of cavemen getting worked up about perceived sleights to their magic man.

Yes yes, the toothfairy, Santa Claus, Jesus..etc. That's all well and good, but you've strayed into the wrong debate- older atheists are now embarrassed by that teenage rhetoric. It was fun and clever at first when the atheist movement found its legs, but we're on to the next stage now: How to promote atheism without looking like BNP/UKIP militant hate mongers. It's tough when you still have pseudo-intellectuals like Bill Maher with soapboxes.

Technocentral

Vomit wrote: »

Good for him- yet here he is sitting down with Bill Maher, who holds the opposite viewpoint to what you just quoted, nodding along with his absurdities because he knows that he's on TV yet again with a platform.

Maybe, unlike you, he can chat to people who's views he doesn't 100% agree with. :roll eyes:

Show me any proof he's ever directed abuse at anyone because of their race? Its all got to do with taking on the horrifically malevolent force know as religion that is keeping this world in the stone age, fair ****s to him, some lunatic will try to murder him for his bravery some day.

RobertKK

I just want to say I love the title of this thread.

One eyed Jack

lawlolawl wrote: »

He should be bitter, we all should.

Religion has made an absolute balls of society and held it back hundreds if not thousands of years with its idiocy.

Damn right and people should be bitter about this childish nonsense.

Look at most of the military conflicts in the world at the moment. A bunch of cavemen getting worked up about perceived sleights to their magic man.

That'll be people then, as opposed to the ideology itself, which causes conflict. People who hold conflicting ideologies are always going to come into conflict, and if it wasn't religion, it'd be something else, like ohh, I don't know, any number of other ideologies.

The issue isn't religion itself. The issue is people, and 6.9 billion people who are religious don't particularly care to fight about it, they just want to be able to get on with their lives, but when the things they believe in are threatened, why shouldn't they fight for what they believe in?

Atheism has never been the cause of any world conflicts, simply because there's nothing to fight for! That's a boast I've never quite been able to get my head around. Perhaps I'm just too stupid, right?

Perhaps.

drugstore cowboy

I used to love Bill Maher's hbo show but his right wing ideas have gotten worse these last few years.

Technocentral

drugstore cowboy wrote: »

I used to love Bill Maher's hbo show but his right wing ideas have gotten worse these last few years.

What rightwing views, he's totally the opposite, now if you're an atheist you are automatically rightwing, bollocks?:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/06/19/bill-maher-blames-right-wing-media-for-charleston-they-present-a-really-twisted-view.html

"Bill Maher’s gloves came off on Friday, as the host of HBO’s Real Time with Bill Maher slammed the right wing for influencing the warped worldview of Dylann Roof, the vile terrorist who shot nine African-Americans to death in a historic black church in Charleston, South Carolina, in order to, he said, “start a race war.”

Specifically, Maher criticized right-wing media, including conservative-leaning news organizations like Fox News, The Drudge Report, and The Daily Caller, for helping to mold the racist mind of Roof. "

One eyed Jack

Technocentral wrote: »

Maybe, unlike you, he can chat to people who's views he doesn't 100% agree with. :roll eyes:

Show me any proof he's ever directed abuse at anyone because of their race? Its all got to do with taking on the horrifically malevolent force know as religion that is keeping this world in the stone age, fair ****s to him, some lunatic will try to murder him for his bravery some day.

That'll never happen, for the simple reason that doing so would turn Dawkins into a martyr, and nobody wants that. He's tried to play the persecuted martyr card all his life, and people are tired of his shtick.

There needs to be a more modern movement of atheism again that associates itself less with trying to be intellectual and all the rest of it, and associates itself more with humanity. Right now Dawkins is failing miserably in this regard, and is doing more damage to the image of atheism than anything he is doing to promote atheism as an attractive alternative to theism.

drugstore cowboy

One eyed Jack wrote: »

That'll never happen, for the simple reason that doing so would turn Dawkins into a martyr, and nobody wants that. He's tried to play the persecuted martyr card all his life, and people are tired of his shtick.

There needs to be a more modern movement of atheism again that associates itself less with trying to be intellectual and all the rest of it, and associates itself more with humanity. Right now Dawkins is failing miserably in this regard, and is doing more damage to the image of atheism than anything he is doing to promote atheism as an attractive alternative to theism.

He has a good friend in Bill with his ott anti Islam rants. Billy boy has become the type of person he spent years lampooning.

Merrion

If you are looking for an alternative guide on your path to atheism, maybe Douglas Adams or Jim Al-Khalili would be better suited to your needs?

Junkyard Tom

Didn't Bill Maher support the invasion of Iraq? Some fucking liberal he is.

If he had a pair of liberal balls he'd take on the wholesale crushing of dissent in Universities that's the routine practice of Zionist/Pro Israel ultra-nationalist elements. People have lost their jobs for not toeing the line.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHqou7SP9wI

Letree

Vomit wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvvQJ_zsL1U

My last shred of respect for Dawkins has finally disappeared. Here we have two 'heroes' of popular media knocking over some nicely placed strawmen, creating a new concept from their asses, the "Regressive Leftist" and giving each other a pretty cringy and congratulatory 69 over having both recognised and named this concept. *Applause* Let's hear it for these heroes of the intelligentsia! Bravo.

These two men have totally different reasons for hating Muslims. Dawkins is politically unaware, only caring about the ivory tower atheist agenda, and Bill Maher is using him. In this clip, Maher looks like he's struggling to appear calm and intellectual- you can almost see the dummy within waiting to make a quip about the 47 virgins.

Truly frightening how this kind of conservative attitude is masquerading as progressive- conflating Islam with jihadism and extremism. There are literally billions of peaceful Muslims and guess what- they have a right to be Muslim if they want!! Every 'era' has a group of people in the spotlight of 'acceptable hatred' - how about this once we stand up, as real liberals, and say ENOUGH! Muslims are ordinary people FFS! They are not all bearded men in caves plotting against the rest of us.

Bottom line- you cannot bully and harrass people into believing like you believe! Let's examine the 'racism' part-- turns out a great majority of Muslims are in/from the middle-east, and by a totally unrelated co-incidence, we (in the west) are at war with them and are occupying their countries. I wonder why we've turned on them! Oh right...they are trrrrrrrists!

Damn these men. And Bill Maher- the tw*t who applauds every time Israel carpet bombs thousands of children. If anyone gets a free pass, it's THAT country. Why? Well, because they are just another white European colony "civilising" a lesser people.

History..same sh*t, over and over...

I agreed with every word they said in that video. Particularly liked the reference to bee keepers outfit.

wes

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Didn't Bill Maher support the invasion of Iraq? Some fucking liberal he is.

If he had a pair of liberal balls he'd take on the wholesale crushing of dissent in Universities that's the routine practice of Zionist/Pro Israel ultra-nationalist elements. People have lost their jobs for not toeing the line.

I have no time for Maher, he is a big supporter of Israel, and imho a massive hypocrite due to this, who his happy to support one set of crazies as it suits him.

He is also an anti vaxer to boot, so hardly someone in position to call anyone irrational.

Kaiser Sosay

Vomit wrote: »

Maher looks like he's struggling to appear calm and intellectual

I really wouldn't make the mistake of associating Bill Maher, with someone who possesses any kind of intelligence.

Michael OBrien

Vomit wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvvQJ_zsL1U

My last shred of respect for Dawkins has finally disappeared. Here we have two 'heroes' of popular media knocking over some nicely placed strawmen, creating a new concept from their asses, the "Regressive Leftist" and giving each other a pretty cringy and congratulatory 69 over having both recognised and named this concept. *Applause* Let's hear it for these heroes of the intelligentsia! Bravo.

These two men have totally different reasons for hating Muslims. Dawkins is politically unaware, only caring about the ivory tower atheist agenda, and Bill Maher is using him. In this clip, Maher looks like he's struggling to appear calm and intellectual- you can almost see the dummy within waiting to make a quip about the 47 virgins.

Truly frightening how this kind of conservative attitude is masquerading as progressive- conflating Islam with jihadism and extremism. There are literally billions of peaceful Muslims and guess what- they have a right to be Muslim if they want!! Every 'era' has a group of people in the spotlight of 'acceptable hatred' - how about this once we stand up, as real liberals, and say ENOUGH! Muslims are ordinary people FFS! They are not all bearded men in caves plotting against the rest of us.

Bottom line- you cannot bully and harrass people into believing like you believe! Let's examine the 'racism' part-- turns out a great majority of Muslims are in/from the middle-east, and by a totally unrelated co-incidence, we (in the west) are at war with them and are occupying their countries. I wonder why we've turned on them! Oh right...they are trrrrrrrists!

Damn these men. And Bill Maher- the tw*t who applauds every time Israel carpet bombs thousands of children. If anyone gets a free pass, it's THAT country. Why? Well, because they are just another white European colony "civilising" a lesser people.

History..same sh*t, over and over...

This comment is not just a response but my frustration venting at this whole topic.
The bulk of muslims are not in the middle east, we are not at war with MOST muslim countries (we as in the West) and muslims have been killing each other and minorities since the very beginning of their religion or treating minorities as 2nd class citizens. They can have extra motivations to hate the UK or USA for their military actions, but the religion provides ample reason to despise the west (and north, south and east) and other muslims that don't see eye to eye with them. The religion itself is set up with conspiracies and victimhood in it's core doctrines (Much like fundamental christians see satan behind everything).

What is a "moderate" muslim, I have heard the term, but is it ever actually investigated? What does it mean to be moderate in this regard? Not a trite response about someone's mother not being a jihadi but in depth explanation.
Most people who comment never bother to actually take time to research Islam or understand that actions and commitment to doctrines are layered depending on the situation. They can be completely placid yet still radical, all it takes is the situation to change and the rules of behaviour can change.
Asking simplistic questions gives inaccurate views on how radical muslims can be. Things like "do you think apostates should be killed" are oversimplistic and the "no" responses can also include muslims that think apostates should be tortured, maimed and imprisoned or exiled instead (as stated in the quran if someone is spreading mischief in Islamic lands). A lie of omission is still a lie.

Islam is NOT just a religion, it is a complete way of life that includes religious aspects. This is often overlooked when culture or politics is blamed. Islam influences culture and visa versa, as it also does in politics. They cannot be separated in clear black and white terms, they are shades of grey.
Of course Islam is not unique in this (Hindu caste system for example), but the media seem to be very reluctant to acknowledge that and apologists like Reza go to great lengths to obfuscate those facts too.
Constantly attacking any critic of Islam as some kind of puppet of the west is nonsense, conflating such criticism with bigotry is fallacious and both Dawkins and Maher see the greatest victims of Islam as being muslims themselves, especially women and children.
Frankly the men are also equally victims but that is often overlooked as deliberate misogyny from our culturally recently enlightened perspectives, when, again if one looked at what Islam teaches, it is a lot more complicated than that.

Do people think Islam needs reform? If so, then getting people to acknowledge its flaws is the first step. You cannot reform a religion if most will not admit it has flaws and sees even trying to reform as one of the worst sins in Islam (putting oneself above the laws of allah, essentially making oneself "god").

If you take the religion seriously then reform is heretical, so the question remains, what does being a "moderate" muslim even mean? Does it mean something like reformed judaism? Atheist jews that like some of the traditional rituals but the theology is decoration? Is that what we expect will actually work?

Donkey Oaty

Michael OBrien wrote: »

Things like "do you think apostates should be killed" are oversimplistic and the "no" responses can also include muslims that think apostates should be tortured, maimed and imprisoned or exiled instead (as stated in the quran if someone is spreading mischief in Islamic lands). A lie of omission is still a lie.

This is very true, and a lot depends on how the question is framed.

For example:

"Do you think people should be free to choose and practice their own religion in peace?"

will generally get a very different response to:

"Do you think that if a Sharia court finds somebody guilty of crimes such blasphemy, treason or apostasy, the punishment should be enforced according to Koranic principles?"

WarZ

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

Young? Thanks for the compliment OP.

Unfortunately it seems there are a lot of betas around the internet trying to get a pity ride from some hairy-armpitted rad-fem by proving how righteous to the cause they are.

People with conservative and racist views have been proven to have lower intelligence and tend to be beta males.

To be conservative and racist is to be fearful of anything different. Scared beta males essentially who are terrified of anything that doesn't look and act like them.

steddyeddy

Fleawuss wrote: »

Another anti Dawkins thread. Another anti atheist thread. Another let's pretend religion isn't made up bs thread. Poor old AH: pray for it, now and in its last agony.

For someone who's anti-religion you seem very quick to elevate Dawkins to the realm of god of the atheists.

cowboyBuilder

Sorry OP, what is bad about this ?

Dawkins here talking absolute sense - did you post the wrong link maybe ?

Dawkins has said some silly stuff lately on Twitter but this one is spot on.

DarkyHughes

Vomit wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvvQJ_zsL1U

My last shred of respect for Dawkins has finally disappeared. Here we have two 'heroes' of popular media knocking over some nicely placed strawmen, creating a new concept from their asses, the "Regressive Leftist" and giving each other a pretty cringy and congratulatory 69 over having both recognised and named this concept. *Applause* Let's hear it for these heroes of the intelligentsia! Bravo.

These two men have totally different reasons for hating Muslims. Dawkins is politically unaware, only caring about the ivory tower atheist agenda, and Bill Maher is using him. In this clip, Maher looks like he's struggling to appear calm and intellectual- you can almost see the dummy within waiting to make a quip about the 47 virgins.

Truly frightening how this kind of conservative attitude is masquerading as progressive- conflating Islam with jihadism and extremism. There are literally billions of peaceful Muslims and guess what- they have a right to be Muslim if they want!! Every 'era' has a group of people in the spotlight of 'acceptable hatred' - how about this once we stand up, as real liberals, and say ENOUGH! Muslims are ordinary people FFS! They are not all bearded men in caves plotting against the rest of us.

Bottom line- you cannot bully and harrass people into believing like you believe! Let's examine the 'racism' part-- turns out a great majority of Muslims are in/from the middle-east, and by a totally unrelated co-incidence, we (in the west) are at war with them and are occupying their countries. I wonder why we've turned on them! Oh right...they are trrrrrrrists!

Damn these men. And Bill Maher- the tw*t who applauds every time Israel carpet bombs thousands of children. If anyone gets a free pass, it's THAT country. Why? Well, because they are just another white European colony "civilising" a lesser people.

History..same sh*t, over and over...

Well it's a thanks from me. I don't mind Dawkins too much but I ****ing hate that twat Bill Maher. One thing I started noticing about him after he makes a "joke" he looks towards he audience to see if they clap or laugh fast enough & when he does look at them they get the message "oh it's time to clap or laugh or both. "

DarkyHughes

Technocentral wrote: »

What rightwing views, he's totally the opposite, now if you're an atheist you are automatically rightwing, bollocks?:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/06/19/bill-maher-blames-right-wing-media-for-charleston-they-present-a-really-twisted-view.html

"Bill Maher’s gloves came off on Friday, as the host of HBO’s Real Time with Bill Maher slammed the right wing for influencing the warped worldview of Dylann Roof, the vile terrorist who shot nine African-Americans to death in a historic black church in Charleston, South Carolina, in order to, he said, “start a race war.”

Specifically, Maher criticized right-wing media, including conservative-leaning news organizations like Fox News, The Drudge Report, and The Daily Caller, for helping to mold the racist mind of Roof. "

He said right-wing views not radical right-wing views. What would be considered right-wing in the UK would almost be considered the Democrats position in the US who themselves are moving more & more to the right.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9RBXlE86Ng

^ That's US right. And it's as mental as it sound & looks. I can't imagine any UK Tory acting that mental.

DarkyHughes

drugstore cowboy wrote: »

I used to love Bill Maher's hbo show but his right wing ideas have gotten worse these last few years.

It happens to a lot of people when they get old they move to the right. Unless your Tony Benn.