RWC'15 Pool D: Ireland vs Italy, RWC. KO Sunday 4:45PM TV3/ITV1

Yeah, I'm not going with the positivity here.

Italy are an ordinary team that aren't going well the last while. We regularly beat them much more convincingly and handsomely in matches of varying importance.

This game was meant to see raised intensity and a progression of our world cup preparations and campaign. Looked like another warm up with our seconds. Are the lads still trying to mind themselves for the big tests?

At this level, on this stage, you don't turn on or off. You are on or you go home. Time for excuses are over and we shouldn't be making any excuses after today. We were poor at a time when we absolutely can't afford it anymore. No "get one bad game out of our system" no "we needed a good test before France", we need to absolutely destroy teams like Italy if we expect to advance.

Right now I'm realigning my expectations to the quarters, and just hope that today was some complete anomaly and we go further.

On to the game.

Front row were not great, scrum had issues and didn't dominate, Best took 30 minutes to warm up but then went quite well. Ross didn't have a great day at the office, McGrath didn't have much impact and same for the subs. Cronin went well out of the front row subs but Healy..., Healy, I dunno, getting a bit worried as he is playing like someone who is worried they are going to break.

POC had moments in the row, was inconsistent and has had 4 - 5 games back to back where he has produced moments but not created a lot of impact over 60 - 80 minutes. Henderson again carried well and deserves his starting berth, Toner was impressive from the bench but Henderson has moved ahead for probably most types of games at this point.

Back row were not dominant. SOB carried the best, broke the gainline every time he had ball in hand and was probably the only forward to do so. Heaslip worked very hard, carried and delivered ball well but didn't dominate at the breakdown and failed to cover as much ground as he usually does in support play, will be disappointed. O'Mahony was not nearly as bad or as good as the last 30 pages would have you believe. He had a couple of excellent moments, but between these moments he didn't impact the game and his discipline was poor, resulting in a yellow card which thankfully didn't cost us.

As for the backs, Bowe has to be under considerable pressure now, he was not composed at all. Kearney had some good physical exchanges with the Italians that he dominated but otherwise didn't have much time on the ball (and didn't seem to try and create time). Both of our half backs had poor games, but Murray had a complete mare.

Henshaw was fine but not spectacular and I expect he will have his name in an injury report at some stage over the next two days as he seemed to be carrying a knock from 15 minutes in. Earls was a big let down in centre, didn't distribute well (and I'm not referring to the butchered offloads) and gave us little go forward ball in traffic so not sure what he added at all. Also if you are going to line up and smash someone in the tackle, don't bounce of their shoulder when they aren't even looking at you. Don't think he fared badly defensively but Payne all day every day for me, if not Fitz.

Zebo like our wings got little ball, but he didn't come into the game much and when he had the opportunities to counter attack he did what Kearney does only much worse.

No one really had great games today, Henderson and Sexton were decent and SOB probably not far off but the rest not up to their standards. I'm quite concerned now, performance just isn't a switch like this, not at this level. Hope I'm completely wrong.

One further major frustration. The TV3 panel. If they can't be objective, they should get someone else in. It was embarrassing and heavily provincially biased around questions of leadership and performance. Worse still it was apologetic for the performance. Munster, Ulster, Leinster and Connacht should collectively be able to put together a team to absolutely eviscerate a collaboration of Zebre, Treviso and a couple of others.

This evening pushed my thoughts towards a hidden belief I keep in a back part of my mind that culturally Ireland lack self belief when it matters most. The provinces have proved this wrong, and our last two six nations have proved this wrong and I had put this thought to bed. I hope this world cup campaign proves this wrong.

A quote that I often revert to and reflect on: "And so, onwards... along a path of wisdom, with a hearty tread, a hearty confidence.. however you may be, be your own source of experience". I used to reflect on this before competitions to force myself to remember all the good performances instead of fearing the poor ones. We've had much more to be happy about the last 24 months, but things haven't been ecstatic the last three and that now is bringing my hidden concerns back to the fore.

Onwards Ireland. Time to restore the belief.

Bridge93

awec wrote: »

IMO SOB has played like a busted flush this tournament so far. If any back row is at risk of losing a starting place I'd say he's the most likely.

On the other hand he could really turn it on against France. I don't think our tactics of continual kicking the ball and aversion to holding it in hand really help players like him.

O' Brien was very good against Canada, didn't play against Romania and was OK to good today. How has he been playing like a busted flush? He isn't even remotely close to losing his place.

sydthebeat

awec wrote: »

IMO SOB has played like a busted flush this tournament so far. If any back row is at risk of losing a starting place I'd say he's the most likely.

On the other hand he could really turn it on against France. I don't think our tactics of continual kicking the ball and aversion to holding it in hand really help players like him.

SOB was my back row player of the day!!!

ever time he carried he made hard yards, had 2 turnovers and tackled anything that came his way.

feargale

efb wrote: »

This is going to be tighter than some thought...

Denarium cadet.

blinding

How about Toner and Henderson in the second row and Give Paul O'Connell a much needed rest.

The old boy is getting on a bit !

Irish_rat

noway12345 wrote: »

What's our A game? Kick up in the air all the time and chase, the same back line move ie the wrap around. The maul? We have no attacking thread that's hard to read or defend for the top teams. Are we hiding some other moves? Saving them? Highly unlikely.

As I've said many times, our A game is giving the opposition a torrid time up front. If we are to beat France we have to bully them in the scrum, rucks, line-out and the mauls.

Our back line doesn't matter if we don't get any of that right.

awec

Basically when our kicking game doesn't work to perfection we look absolutely clueless. There is no plan B.

Actually there kind of is a plan B. Try the Sexton loop over and over again and hope the opposition have forgotten about it since the last attempt.

AbusesToilets

awec wrote: »

IMO SOB has played like a busted flush this tournament so far. If any back row is at risk of losing a starting place I'd say he's the most likely.

On the other hand he could really turn it on against France. I don't think our tactics of continual kicking the ball and aversion to holding it in hand really help players like him.

Look at how he's being used though. He being forced to carry in the tight, carrying 2-3 defenders. Similar to what Heaslip usually does. He has always done best in the wider channels where he can get some momentum and get 1 on 1 with defenders. Don't know why he hasn't been better utilised in that fashion.

Tox56

Tox56 wrote: »

SOB did well with a lot of terrible ball, I cant understand the stick he is getting on here

The stick he is getting came directly from Keith Wood in response to a question about Peter O'Mahony's performance and you are going to hear all about it all week.

I genuinely hope he get's called out for it as much as Matt did for his ill informed comments about Payne.

irishbucsfan

awec wrote: »

Basically when our kicking game doesn't work to perfection we look absolutely clueless. There is no plan B.

Actually there kind of is a plan B. Try the Sexton loop over and over again and hope the opposition have forgotten about it since the last attempt.

Nah, that's not it. We barely pursued our kicking game in the first half. The problems we had came outside of that part of our game.

It was only when we went after the kicking game that we moved into a position of dominance. The problem was trying to keep the ball in hand in our own half against an Italian team who thrive in defense in opponents halves. What were we thinking and why were we so slow to adapt.

KingBrian2

We have to remember we are onto the grander powers France, New Zealand, Australia and South Africa. Even Wales and Argentina are tough aggressive teams. I thought all this week Italy are being totally underestimated. It is not a question of being good or bad they had to win to stay in. England was demolished and people felt they would hold the trophy. Lets just go through the permutations here if we lose to France were still in but have to play New Zealand.

Ireland v the All Blacks in a semi is 50-50. It practically is a final for us. Nobody should be under any illusions that to win the tournament a big performance from the best side will do it. At the moment we have seen only the pool stages. Argentina is a prospect that we all want but they will also be very difficult. These matches will be tough for us and for our opponents. We have to accept that we have our best team and when they want they can produce magic.

Tigerandahalf

I think Joe Schmidt's gameplan has been about conservative rugby. Don't make the offload if we could lose possession or face a counter attack. That makes you hard to beat when your set piece is solid. But you need to win and kick penos.
It does nothing for SOB's game where his strengths lie in running onto offloads in space. As a first up receiver he just gets chopped down.
POM was defintely the best in the backrow today. Heaslip plays a very conservative game and in fairness to him he makes very few errors, something Joe loves.
Sexton for me could do a lot more. He is a big unit and has pace. He should be attacking the line a lot more.
I wouldn't move Henderson to 6. He isn't mobile enough and you would lose his effectiveness in the tight areas around rucks and mauls.
While Earls played ok today I still think he makes too many basic errors. Tommy Bowe looked wrecked at the end today and in truth our wing choices aren't great.
Jack McGrath was quiet today as was Ross. Nathan White was poor turning over ball on at least one occasion.
France game will be tight but I think we will do it. France aren't great in recent times.

efb

feargale wrote: »

Denarium cadet.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqyixwqiCag

Christy42

Right sweeping changes are unlikley. We had a bad game and got away with it. Time to fix it for next week. Remember that these players have all had good games before and can again. No point in judging them on one 80 minute spell when no one really covered themselves in glory. That said I thought Murray controlled the game well at the end. Giving it to someone to run with wasn't going to do any good so may as well kick it. A lot of players had good moments but really don't think anyone impressed for most of the match. Too many players just seemed to disappear.

Bad game but they will work on it and hopefully be better for France. It really seemed odd how much ground we gave each and every time the Italians went out the back. Was there some worry about our defense? I was also confused as to when players stopped before contact and looked for someone to pass to before getting knocked back by a steamrolling Italian. Unless you are sure tuck it up and bulldoze into them and at least get front foot ball.

Tompatrick

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

I think Joe Schmidt's gameplan has been about conservative rugby. Don't make the offload if we could lose possession or face a counter attack. That makes you hard to beat when your set piece is solid. But you need to win and kick penos.
It does nothing for SOB's game where his strengths lie in running onto offloads in space. As a first up receiver he just gets chopped down.
POM was defintely the best in the backrow today. Heaslip plays a very conservative game and in fairness to him he makes very few errors, something Joe loves.
Sexton for me could do a lot more. He is a big unit and has pace. He should be attacking the line a lot more.
I wouldn't move Henderson to 6. He isn't mobile enough and you would lose his effectiveness in the tight areas around rucks and mauls.
While Earls played ok today I still think he makes too many basic errors. Tommy Bowe looked wrecked at the end today and in truth our wing choices aren't great.
Jack McGrath was quiet today as was Ross. Nathan White was poor turning over ball on at least one occasion.
France game will be tight but I think we will do it. France aren't great in recent times.

Yes this is the point. Schmidt-ball may only get us so far. Overuse of the box kick, predictable mauling and choke tackles galore coupled with an over drilled backline who can't make a play without it being pre ordained by his Joe-ness are all well and good against lesser teams. But it's hard to see us progressing to semis using Schmidt-ball.

pickarooney

That was probably the worst game of the World Cup so far, by we can expect more of the same as the tournament goes on. Grim, repetitive, uninspired rugby, grinding out a win and boring all but the directly invested.

If Italy can so easily identify our three tactics (I'm not sure box kicking counts as an actual tactic) then we're goosed. They had our number at every maul, were expecting each inside pass and had a man waiting to catch the tap down from the garryowen. Shame for them they had no real attacking plan of their own.

Honestly, this kind of rugby doesn't deserve any rewards.

Christy42

Christ I know we had a bad game but how quickly people are turning against Joe and the team is impressive. One bad game that we still won. Get over it. The man has won a trophy every season he has been on the Island whether it was with Ireland or Leinster. We have also hung with the best in the world with Schmidt-ball so let us see how far it gets us.

I for one still stand by them and feel they have the skills and the coach to do well.

.ak

Schmidtball...

total former

Christy42 wrote: »

Christ I know we had a bad game but how quickly people are turning against Joe and the team is impressive. One bad game that we still won. Get over it. The man has won a trophy every season he has been on the Island whether it was with Ireland or Leinster. We have also hung with the best in the world with Schmidt-ball so let us see how far it gets us.

I for one still stand by them and feel they have the skills and the coach to do well.

Who is turning on him? Who?

Bridge93

One game and we're now boring, predictable, useless and going to lose to France (who have been average too). How quickly people turn their opinions upside down
7 hours ago everyone was discussing the tactics to employ when we met Australia in the semis
Criticising the performance is one thing but the overreaction to this is mad. Australia are the only team to play well consistently so far.

Cronin The Destroyer

Very disappointing. Team did not look world class at all. After seeing Oz play England, and after watching the match today, I'm realigning my expectations for the World Cup somewhat.

We've a great team when they are fully focused/fit, but they will need to improve by about 300% just to get parity with France next week.

Yellow card aside, I thought POM was very good. Henderson is fast becoming an integral part of the team. Won't be long before we're not able to imagine not starting him. Great at breaking the gainline, powerful carries, smart at rolling away, not giving away penalties etc.

Thought Cronin looked good when he came on, and thought Best was decent in second half. Also Toner was good. Earls was good, but I wouldn't have him in the centre unless I had to. No slight on him, he did his absolute best, which was good enough on the day.

Thought Conor Murray and Sexton were sub par by their standards. And therein lies the problem. Basically we lack an edge in attack atm. Too much drifting. Too much carrying into contact. And Sexton's inside pass won't win us the world cup on its own.

Positives: We didn't let in a try. No injuries. We progress to quarters. Henderson/POM.

Christy42

total former wrote: »

Who is turning on him? Who?

TomPatrick and Pickarooney for starters (just glancing on this page). Entirely over the top reactions to a single bad game. I am sure there are others on different pages they were just the closest. Seriously, who was arguing about us having a bad selection of wingers before this match or had declared that there was no way "Schmidt Ball" (save me) could get us to a quarter final (in spite of us beating SA and Aus with it as well as the two six nations trophies).

ThisRegard

.ak wrote: »

Schmidtball...

Lol, I was just going to ask are people going to try make this mentaller phrase a "thing" now.

Bridge93

Italy who played quite well still only scored 9 points. I know their **** up of a lineout may have helped that but that's still a decent effort defensively.

KingBrian2

Christy42 wrote: »

Right sweeping changes are unlikley. We had a bad game and got away with it. Time to fix it for next week. Remember that these players have all had good games before and can again. No point in judging them on one 80 minute spell when no one really covered themselves in glory. That said I thought Murray controlled the game well at the end. Giving it to someone to run with wasn't going to do any good so may as well kick it. A lot of players had good moments but really don't think anyone impressed for most of the match. Too many players just seemed to disappear.

Bad game but they will work on it and hopefully be better for France. It really seemed odd how much ground we gave each and every time the Italians went out the back. Was there some worry about our defense? I was also confused as to when players stopped before contact and looked for someone to pass to before getting knocked back by a steamrolling Italian. Unless you are sure tuck it up and bulldoze into them and at least get front foot ball.

I must say does the fact that our lines were not breached once not count for anything. Critics were annoyed and rightly we allowed Canada and Romania to score against us but this match was low score affair. Not too many opportunities to get tries. The blue jerseys disrupted us time and time again lets remember we kept the Assisi contained. They countermanded our frequent attacks yet we shoved them back into their own half.

I realise we have to point out the flaws we made and definitely we totally messed up on the maul. I still say the result shows that despite a poor match we still won comfortable. Time for the players to unleash their passions and strengths when taking on tougher opposition. France are for the taking and will be tested by us. The courage of Italy allowed them to dominate the territory, they will be disappointed in loss of momentum.

rrpc

ThisRegard wrote: »

Lol, I was just going to ask are people going to try make this mentaller phrase a "thing" now.

Please no. Let it die now.

Thanos

OK just back from the pub (so may not be thinking straight) but for me the forwards ( for the most part) were average, but the backs were not at the races.
Sexton was not in the game and should have been subbed at 50ish, and one or two others at 60 65 mins.......
I know Italy were up for this but Ireland did not look at the races, and seemed to be in another minow game they just had to win.
Next week is so much more and I hope that was a wake up call..........

thomond2006

One tactic that didn't work was the repeated use of an inside ball to a player/winger running a hard line. At times it coughed up the ball.

total former

Christy42 wrote: »

TomPatrick and Pickarooney for starters (just glancing on this page). Entirely over the top reactions to a single bad game. I am sure there are others on different pages they were just the closest. Seriously, who was arguing about us having a bad selection of wingers before this match or had declared that there was no way "Schmidt Ball" (save me) could get us to a quarter final (in spite of us beating SA and Aus with it as well as the two six nations trophies).

It was a bad performance but the main issue, the lack of penetration and variety in attack has been an issue for a long time now.

We have been playing a very limited game for a while now, we struggled to score tries against Canada and Romania, today's display did not come out of the blue.

I think it's fair enough to raise concerns at this stage. We have to improve.

CurryFlavoured

Bridge93 wrote: »

Italy who played quite well still only scored 9 points. I know their **** up of a lineout may have helped that but that's still a decent effort defensively.

Yep, we were solid and have only conceded 2 tries so far - 1 a giveaway v Canada and another in the last min v Romania. Defence isn't an issue but we looked toothless today with ball in hand. With Earls wide, Kearney and Payne back and Murray not playing horrendous we should improve v France but our back 5 is never going to blow top teams away. Not that that's an excuse v Italy but its what we are as a team.