Has Galway overtaken Limerick?

Hunchback

I think I recall the last time that there was a census hearing that on the day that the census was being done, there was some sort of a sporting event in Dublin. It might have been a Munster rugby game I think.

Anyway, I remember hearing a radio DJ saying that it would actually have in important effect insofar as a large proportion of the population of Limerick would be out of their home city when the census was being done, with the consequent effect that the numbers declared in the census for Galway city would reflect that it had the third highest population of anywhere in Ireland, ahead of Limerick.

Ever since then I get the sense that whenever someone on the radio, or television is referring to cities in Ireland, they refer to Galway third and then Limerick fourth, if at all.

Has anybody else noticed this? Is is the case that Ireland at large have more of an affinity for Galway than Limerick and are only too happy to do this? Has Galway a more prominent space in the public mindset? Like, Birmingham has a bigger population than Manchester but you always think of Manchester first...

Into The Blue

Baraics Pollox wrote: »

Galway, less of a depressing kip than Limerick.
Manchester, less of a depressing kip than Birmingham.

All four are much of a muchness

osarusan

2011 census had Limerick at 91454 people and Galway at 76778.

I would have thought that Limerick was still viewed as Ireland's 3rd biggest city, but not paid much attention really.

Poor Uncle Tom

Fog, It's all just fog.....

A lot of limericks population is outside the city boundary. Galway city has a bigger population than Limerick city. You can't count the people who don't actually live in the defined area of the city.

Galway is officially Ireland's 3rd city.

keithclancy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JORbaMkp0NI

JohnFalstaff

I travel down to both Limerick and Galway with work a few times a year. The city centre of Limerick is probably larger than Galway's, but there always seems to be something happening in Galway - that might account for the amount of publicity Galway gets.

biko

Tbh, Limerick feels much more like a city than Galway does - and I love Galway to bits.

Tarzana2

Natasha Spicy Pinhole wrote: »

A lot of limericks population is outside the city boundary. Galway city has a bigger population than Limerick city. You can't count the people who don't actually live in the defined area of the city.

Galway is officially Ireland's 3rd city.

And yet it feels like a town. Limerick feels much more like a city.

Edit: And you're wrong actually. Limerick has a higher population within city limits than Galway, and has a much bigger metro population.

Baraics Pollox

I've retracted my earlier statement, too harsh!

As a Dub, I always felt Galway more superior to Limerick. This is probably something simply due to the relative scales of the whole counties. I think Galway has more going for it too. Any time I've been to Limerick I've thought it feels bet down and a bit rougher. They're my reasons anyway.

Silentcorner

Natasha Spicy Pinhole wrote: »

A lot of limericks population is outside the city boundary. Galway city has a bigger population than Limerick city. You can't count the people who don't actually live in the defined area of the city.

Galway is officially Ireland's 3rd city.

Limericks city boundary no longer exists, the metropolitian area now has a population of 102,000, this excludes the 15-20,000 people living in South East Clare which is essentially part of the city.

Limerick is, and always was the states 3rd largest urban area.

There is a very curious tale between these two cities.

One gets f**ked by media every chance it gets.
The other gets treated the exact opposite...it's weird.

Galway always was a provincial town, and has the cultural relevance that reflects this, it also has the historical relevance of a provincial town. Now, I hasten to add, that even though I find Galway a bit too one dimensional for my taste, it clearly is a very popular place to visit/live.

Galway is treated very well by national media, way better than Cork or Waterford, with every festival and cultural event highlighted and amplified.

Limerick was always been a little city with a global aspect that is reflected both its history and culture.

The media does not do Limerick city justice, it has conditioned Irish people to think of Limerick in a particular narrow narrative...it is a shame, it is completely unpretentious city, very creative and has a long track record in innovation and is a much more affluent city than people realise.

Paramite Pie

Well county Galway apparently has 256,000 people overall -- so if more of those move into the city boundaries (inevitable due to urbanization) it'll over take Limerick eventually.

Limerick is sadly overlooked for jobs and investment though.

c_man

All partitionists in this thread. Belfast kicks Cork into third place :pac:

hmmm

Galway has always presented itself as a cultural location, whereas Limerick has more of an industry focus, so naturally Galway seems to get more air-time on the media. There's a lot more jobs in Limerick and the hinterland (which would overlap with Cork) and the population is a good bit bigger.

The problem with Limerick is that they stuffed the city centre full of social housing, and most people with money or any drive have long since moved to the suburbs. It's a warning for the future of Dublin city centre.

Silentcorner

hmmm wrote: »

Galway has always presented itself as a cultural location, whereas Limerick has more of an industry focus, so naturally Galway seems to get more air-time on the media. There's a lot more jobs in Limerick and the hinterland (which would overlap with Cork) and the population is a good bit bigger.

The problem with Limerick is that they stuffed the city centre full of social housing, and most people with money or any drive have long since moved to the suburbs. It's a warning for the future of Dublin city centre.

Limericks social housing policy was borrowed from Dublin, the council estates were built outside the city centre breaking up very socially integrated city centre neighbourhoods...Dublin City Centre's social issues are much much greater than Limericks already...senior politicians in Limerick at the time pleaded not to build the social housing in isolated parts of the outskirts of the city because of the issues that were emerging in Dublin in the 60s/70s....

The only issue in Limerick City centre was the poor quality of accommodation that was build during the Celtic Tiger, and Limerick is no different to any other city including Dublin (Priory Hall/Longboat Quay) in that regard...no different at all....

Again, you have bear in mind, that every problem in Limerick has been amplified to create the illusion that other cities don't have the same issues...it seems to have worked! That is not to say that Limerick city doesn't have issues by the way.

realdanbreen

c_man wrote: »

All partitionists in this thread. Belfast kicks Cork into third place :pac:

We are not talking about British cities.

beardybrewer

Ok, which one of you jokers edited Wikipedia??

Balmed Out

I completely agree it's like there's a media campaign to promote Galway over limerick. Even on boards people talk as of its Ireland's third city.

Even my phone automatically gives Galway a capital G but limerick a small l. Coincide or conspiracy?

John Doe1

Limerick feels like a small city kinda like Derry.
Galway feels more like a large town like Dundalk, Kilkenny Etc.

Media definitely affects perception, Letterkenny for instance has a larger population than Sligo and similar population to Athlone yet a lot of people down south would not really think that i'd imagine.

the dark phantom

realdanbreen wrote: »

We are not talking about British cities.

That's a bit rich coming from the real dan breen

myshirt

About the true capital of Ireland, I always thought the saying below gave the story:

Limerick was, Dublin is, and Cork will be.
So not even a mention of Galway.

According to RTE, everything that happens in this country happens in Dublin. The fact is it doesn't.

brice_nobes

Baraics Pollox wrote: »

I've retracted my earlier statement, too harsh!

As a Dub, I always felt Galway more superior to Limerick. This is probably something simply due to the relative scales of the whole counties. I think Galway has more going for it too. Any time I've been to Limerick I've thought it feels bet down and a bit rougher. They're my reasons anyway.

limerick is a less affluent city , its had an awful time of it since the crash , galway had no recession at all and is booming for a couple of years now

brice_nobes

Silentcorner wrote: »

Limericks city boundary no longer exists, the metropolitian area now has a population of 102,000, this excludes the 15-20,000 people living in South East Clare which is essentially part of the city.

Limerick is, and always was the states 3rd largest urban area.

There is a very curious tale between these two cities.

One gets f**ked by media every chance it gets.
The other gets treated the exact opposite...it's weird.

Galway always was a provincial town, and has the cultural relevance that reflects this, it also has the historical relevance of a provincial town. Now, I hasten to add, that even though I find Galway a bit too one dimensional for my taste, it clearly is a very popular place to visit/live.

Galway is treated very well by national media, way better than Cork or Waterford, with every festival and cultural event highlighted and amplified.

Limerick was always been a little city with a global aspect that is reflected both its history and culture.

The media does not do Limerick city justice, it has conditioned Irish people to think of Limerick in a particular narrow narrative...it is a shame, it is completely unpretentious city, very creative and has a long track record in innovation and is a much more affluent city than people realise.

while i agree that the media is kinder to galway , galway really does do incredibly well with what it has , this despite being located in the area of the country which has one of the smallest populations , if you go outside galway city , the next nearest population is athlone or ennis , limerick has all of tipperary , north kerry , etc , yet its still weak economically

the city of culture thing last year was an opportunity to sell itself , they done nothing with it , i hear its governed awfully

You Mirin?

Galway feels like a town

Tarzana2

brice_nobes wrote: »

galway had no recession at all

Yeah right. Everywhere in the country was affect by the recession. Dublin was affected and it's the strongest part of the country, economy-wise. No way was Galway special in all of this.

Silentcorner

brice_nobes wrote: »

limerick is a less affluent city , its had an awful time of it since the crash , galway had no recession at all and is booming for a couple of years now

A city which is hugely dependent on tourism got a massive whack from the recession, as everyone pulled back on non essential spending including weekends away.

For instance, during the racing festival (which gets blanket tv coverage despite the poor quality of the actual meet) in 2007, Galway welcomed 217,000 people all spending on average of X amount per head, by 2012 that figure crashed to 135,000 spending less than X amount per head....that is what a recession does to a tourist town.

It was a nationwide economic depression, not a single town, city or region escaped it...

I agree, Galway does well with what it has, but it is helped hugely in perceptions terms by the National Media.

Limerick has always been one of the most affluent areas of the country and still is, despite the recession and its social issues...like I said earlier just because it is unpretentious doesn't mean it is not affluent, likewise, just because a city is pretentious doesn't mean it has wealth...only just over 10 short years ago Galway was lagging behind the rest of the country, along with the Border regions and the Midlands and received financial aid in terms of funding to help it catch up.

brice_nobes

Silentcorner wrote: »

A city which is hugely dependent on tourism got a massive whack from the recession, as everyone pulled back on non essential spending including weekends away.

For instance, during the racing festival (which gets blanket tv coverage despite the poor quality of the actual meet) in 2007, Galway welcomed 217,000 people all spending on average of X amount per head, by 2012 that figure crashed to 135,000 spending less than X amount per head....that is what a recession does to a tourist town.

It was a nationwide economic depression, not a single town, city or region escaped it...

I agree, Galway does well with what it has, but it is helped hugely in perceptions terms by the National Media.

Limerick has always been one of the most affluent areas of the country and still is, despite the recession and its social issues...like I said earlier just because it is unpretentious doesn't mean it is not affluent, likewise, just because a city is pretentious doesn't mean it has wealth...only just over 10 short years ago Galway was lagging behind the rest of the country, along with the Border regions and the Midlands and received financial aid in terms of funding to help it catch up.

the cost of housing is usually a good gauge as to how affluent a place is

limerick is 30% cheaper for housing than galway and eighteen months ago was 40% cheaper

Silentcorner

The cost of housing is an indicator of nothing other than what local people are prepared to pay for housing...you will not see a single economist in the world who agrees with you...I can't believe we haven't copped onto that one.

And the housing market is so dysfunctional in this country, I could just as effectively argue that housing prices are more of an indicator as how gullible people are. (we would both be wrong)

Remember, an awful lot of Limerick residents also have 2nd properties and holiday homes in Co Clare/Co Kerry...the city empties out every July and August more than any other Irish city...

outsidein98

As a Dub with Limerick connections who lives on Galway. I have an interest. I do think Galway gets a lot of good PR in a way that Limerick never does. But really it's a big town rather than a city, sorry Galway people but it's true. Limerick is a proper city and it does suffer from city problems. Galway is really rather small from the perspective of a Dubliner. It's a great place to live, friendly, open and very little crime. Plus it has the advantage of being near to Connemara. But there's a bit of a small town mentality that persists. My wife couldn't wait to get out of the place when she was younger.

Someone earlier mentioned it escaped the worst of the recession and that is my observation too. It is a prosperous town/city.

Plus it has to be said that it's reputation as a place to go among Dubliners, who like it or not are a huge influence on a city's reputation, Cork people take note! You would be amazed how many Dublin flags appeared around the county, often in odd rural places, often with Galway flags alongside during the recent finals.

I have sarcastically referred to it as the westernmost Dublin suburb and the to hear some of the accents. You might think D4.

Limerick on the other hand has the drug problem. As a kid I was amazed to see, on visits to my cousins in Limerick, rough estates and poverty just like in Dublin. It's stab city rep is unfair but you can't ignore the issues.

I do think in the end Galway will overtake or match Limerick population wise. It's a good place to live and that draws people. It might in the end spoil the place but time will tell.

But finally I do prefer Dublin. You can take the man out of Dublin.........

Silentcorner

I think we can all agree, the Dubs in particular love Galway, ahead of Cork, Waterford, and Limerick.

Indeed, in my experience the South Dubs actually really dislike Limerick with its unpretentious nature, I know in rugby circles there is a very deep dislike on both sides, I wonder is that at the heart of the differences in how the media treat both cities.

I mean, no one I know in Limerick has any problem with the Cork based Irish Examiner, or the Galway based TG4...

Because it is clear that media create perceptions, it is clear that media treat both cities in two very different ways, creating two very different perceptions....are the South Dubs (where most of Irish media are based) that parochial? I think they are...

Whatever about Limericks well documented social issues, I do object to use of that horribly crass nickname the media have attached to the city...I sometimes can't believe that Irish people think nothing of using it...

Roquentin

the actual city centre of limerick is far bigger than galway.

Tigerbaby

cannot stand Galway and its "airs"

I loved Limerick; real people, real goodness.

thats it !

Roquentin

correct me if im wrong, but i would imagine galway city population is growing faster than limericks.

c_man

Roquentin wrote: »

correct me if im wrong, but i would imagine galway city population is growing faster than limericks.

Look, I'm doing as much riding as possible but I'm only one man.

road_high

biko wrote: »

Tbh, Limerick feels much more like a city than Galway does - and I love Galway to bits.

Was in Limerick city centre for the first time in probably a decade last January and I was struck by the amount of development that had gone with very big buildings, offices and shops.
Galway would be a more like a smaller town in that regard, but much nice ambience over all.

brice_nobes

Tigerbaby wrote: »

cannot stand Galway and its "airs"

I loved Limerick; real people, real goodness.

thats it !

very smug place alright

brice_nobes

Silentcorner wrote: »

The cost of housing is an indicator of nothing other than what local people are prepared to pay for housing...you will not see a single economist in the world who agrees with you...I can't believe we haven't copped onto that one.

And the housing market is so dysfunctional in this country, I could just as effectively argue that housing prices are more of an indicator as how gullible people are. (we would both be wrong)

Remember, an awful lot of Limerick residents also have 2nd properties and holiday homes in Co Clare/Co Kerry...the city empties out every July and August more than any other Irish city...

saying that the cost of housing is no indicator of affluence flies in the face of logic when applied to almost any part of any city you can name

beit blackrock in dublin , kensington in london , malibu in los angeles

everyone might be wrong and you might be right but there is definatley a correlation between wealth levels and house prices

Silentcorner

brice_nobes wrote: »

saying that the cost of housing is no indicator of affluence flies in the face of logic when applied to almost any part of any city you can name

beit blackrock in dublin , kensington in london , malibu in los angeles

everyone might be wrong and you might be right but there is definatley a correlation between wealth levels and house prices

I understand the temptation to think that it is an indicator, and I am not on my own, economists agree with me, or more like I agree with them...

It's like basing the affluence of a city on the amount of Michelin Star restaurants...

If you combine the house prices in Limerick, with the value of the holiday homes that extend all the way up the West Coast of Clare and Kerry (and these things come in at a minimum of €30,000, can cost up to €250,000) then you'll find that Limerick people have a higher spend on property....we just get better bang for our buck...

You cannot compare Irish house prices with anywhere else in the world, we suffered from the biggest property crash in the OECD...we still are no where near recovering from that...

Silentcorner

brice_nobes wrote: »

while i agree that the media is kinder to galway , galway really does do incredibly well with what it has , this despite being located in the area of the country which has one of the smallest populations , if you go outside galway city , the next nearest population is athlone or ennis , limerick has all of tipperary , north kerry , etc , yet its still weak economically

the city of culture thing last year was an opportunity to sell itself , they done nothing with it , i hear its governed awfully

I respectfully disagree it was a massive success, by any metric you care to mention, you may not have heard about it, I imagine you depend on media to inform you of whether it was a success or not...it simply reinforces my original point...two cities treated completely differently in media.

brice_nobes

Silentcorner wrote: »

I respectfully disagree it was a massive success, by any metric you care to mention, you may not have heard about it, I imagine you depend on media to inform you of whether it was a success or not...it simply reinforces my original point...two cities treated completely differently in media.

my partner is from limerick and both her and her family claim it was a damp squib last year bar the huge french granny , i actually like limerick but think it woefully underperforms on every level compared to galway

i think limerick has more going for it than galway in many ways as its hinterland is huge by comparisson with galway , it really needs to get its act together

brice_nobes

Silentcorner wrote: »

I understand the temptation to think that it is an indicator, and I am not on my own, economists agree with me, or more like I agree with them...

It's like basing the affluence of a city on the amount of Michelin Star restaurants...

If you combine the house prices in Limerick, with the value of the holiday homes that extend all the way up the West Coast of Clare and Kerry (and these things come in at a minimum of €30,000, can cost up to €250,000) then you'll find that Limerick people have a higher spend on property....we just get better bang for our buck...

You cannot compare Irish house prices with anywhere else in the world, we suffered from the biggest property crash in the OECD...we still are no where near recovering from that...

your choosing arbitary factors to back up your points IMO , i dont know what percentage of limerick city folk own holiday homes and whether is way above the percentage of galway or other places , il stick with my assertion that house prices in an area is a pretty solid gauge of how affluent the place is , from darndale to dalkey , this gauge holds up pretty well

im not getting into a broader debate about the housing boom and crash here , there are many views

Silentcorner

brice_nobes wrote: »

my partner is from limerick and both her and her family claim it was a damp squib last year bar the huge french granny , i actually like limerick but think it woefully underperforms on every level compared to galway

i think limerick has more going for it than galway in many ways as its hinterland is huge by comparisson with galway , it really needs to get its act together

But most events had excellent attendances, like all 350 events...over 750,000 people attended the events...that is massive...the production quality of the events was very impressive...

I don't know how people are convinced the city underperforms on every level...it simply doesn't...most Limerick people, can afford to buy or rent property within a 10/15 drive of where they grew up...most people can obtain solid employment...and get there in a 15/20 minute drive...the jobs that were lost in Dell in 09 have been replaced...

The city has one of the highest levels of disposable income in the country http://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/disposable-income-finally-rises-but-only-in-dublin-30213663.html

A lot of people buy season tickets for Munster Rugby whose state of the art stadium is a short drive or long walk from anywhere in the city...

A lot of people attend the many art galleries that are always exhibiting...a lot of people attend one of the 3 theatres and the various events they hold...

A lot of people get out into the likes of Dolans and gets to see what is an excellent grassroots music scene...

A lot of people play sport in the number of the excellent sporting facilities the city has...

A lot of people attend the University which has one of the best campusus in the country...

25,000 people go to 3 Level Institutions in the city...

A lot of people, 10,000 to be exact, recently cleaned up the city making it cleaner than Dublin, Cork and Galway...

It seems the whole city empties out every July and August and heads off to the coast...

Now the city is far from perfect, and can always improve, and has some serious social issues in pockets of the suburbs, but we are are not washing our babies in the Shannon just yet!!!

The perception of Limerick, and the reality of Limerick are two very different entities...

osarusan

City centre is a bit crap though.

All the malls outside the city have gutted it.

Silentcorner

brice_nobes wrote: »

your choosing arbitary factors to back up your points IMO , i dont know what percentage of limerick city folk own holiday homes and whether is way above the percentage of galway or other places , il stick with my assertion that house prices in an area is a pretty solid gauge of how affluent the place is , from darndale to dalkey , this gauge holds up pretty well

im not getting into a broader debate about the housing boom and crash here , there are many views

The irony of you accusing me of using arbitrary factors....by all means believe what you want to believe...Limericks property market has always been the most stable, the prices didn't rise as much as other cities, and it didn't fall as deep either...it has always been a conservative market...

dreamers75

A city should have a millon people and an international airport.

Both Limerick and Galway are large villages, nice ones tho.

Silentcorner

dreamers75 wrote: »

A city should have a millon people and an international airport.

Both Limerick and Galway are large villages, nice ones tho.

Limerick had a population of 1million...but most were murdered in the gang wars between 2000-2009...swear to god!!

Hunchback

outsidein98 wrote: »

As a Dub with Limerick connections who lives on Galway. I have an interest. I do think Galway gets a lot of good PR in a way that Limerick never does. But really it's a big town rather than a city, sorry Galway people but it's true. Limerick is a proper city and it does suffer from city problems. Galway is really rather small from the perspective of a Dubliner. It's a great place to live, friendly, open and very little crime. Plus it has the advantage of being near to Connemara. But there's a bit of a small town mentality that persists. My wife couldn't wait to get out of the place when she was younger.

Someone earlier mentioned it escaped the worst of the recession and that is my observation too. It is a prosperous town/city.

Plus it has to be said that it's reputation as a place to go among Dubliners, who like it or not are a huge influence on a city's reputation, Cork people take note! You would be amazed how many Dublin flags appeared around the county, often in odd rural places, often with Galway flags alongside during the recent finals.

I have sarcastically referred to it as the westernmost Dublin suburb and the to hear some of the accents. You might think D4.

Limerick on the other hand has the drug problem. As a kid I was amazed to see, on visits to my cousins in Limerick, rough estates and poverty just like in Dublin. It's stab city rep is unfair but you can't ignore the issues.

I do think in the end Galway will overtake or match Limerick population wise. It's a good place to live and that draws people. It might in the end spoil the place but time will tell.

But finally I do prefer Dublin. You can take the man out of Dublin.........

By any chance were those Dublin colours you spotted in Headford County Galway? Cuz as far as I know, their Club flag colours are the same as the Dublin flag.

I remember driving through and thinking 'well, this is not so bad, we're not that hated after all'. And then my bubble was officially burst by a friend ..

questionmark?

Always thought Limerick had great potential but it just doesn't click really. Just isn't the buzz around the place that other cities have. Pity really.

RobertKK

This is the order in which towns were declared cities on the island of Ireland.
1. Dublin
2. Cork
3. Limerick
4. Waterford
5. Kilkenny
6. Derry
7. Belfast
8. Galway
9. Armagh
10. Newry
11. Lisburn

Realt Dearg Sec

dreamers75 wrote: »

A city should have a millon people and an international airport.
.

According to whose definition?

Totally Tropical

Perry Square, John Square, the Crescent, the grid system of the streets, the georgian architecture and the river front.The architectural spender of Limerick city versus Eyre Square and a few cobbled side streets.I don't mean to disrespect Galway but it's just a bigger version of Ennis with chronic traffic problems!I don't mind Galway but it's more of a paddywhackery tourist town than a city.Limerick is a more genuine and urban city than Galway.Limerick is an either take it or leave it we are who we are sort of place and that's what i love about it.