Motorway speed limits.

R.O.R

koutoubia wrote: »

Gardai with another checkpoint on the motorway Saturday am. M1 South J5.

Is that what they were doing? We were on the road early ish on Saturday - had to go up and over J5 South as the road was closed. Looked like they were starting to pack up as we were coming off that junction.

Henry Ford III

I think the 120kph limit is fine. You can make great progress on the system at that speed.

Lane discipline, particularly on the M50, is a huge problem however.

TheChizler

Squeeonline wrote: »

Ah come on. Germany also has 20x the population and far far more road milage. Give me the number of deaths per 1000 km of motorway. Your numbers are not comparable.

They did. There's enough information there to work out the relative difference.

dudara

I don't havve an issue with the 120 kmph limit. I use my cruise control to travel around 128 kmph and I'm easily in the top 5% of people moving along the road as my speed is overall consistent. I don't think adding more speed would help massively.

In theory it might be more fun to drive faster, but in reality, you'd probably be limited due to the ability of the general Irish driver.

What we do need, as many posters have pointed out, is improved education, observation and enforcement.

Seth Brundle

Another factor that can influence speed limits is fuel consumption.
Faster limits encourageso faster speeds (obviously) which in turn reduces fuel consumption
http://www.eea.europa.eu/themes/transport/speed-limits

TheChizler

kbannon wrote: »

Another factor that can influence speed limits is fuel consumption.
Faster limits encourageso faster speeds (obviously) which in turn reduces fuel consumption
http://www.eea.europa.eu/themes/transport/speed-limits

Did you mean the exact opposite?

Scipio_Hib

120 km/hr is enough - it's the lane hogging and poor lane discipline that gunges up the works.

Seth Brundle

TheChizler wrote: »

Did you mean the exact opposite?

Yeah, typo*
Faster = lower consumption.


* eating a lovely lunch and not concentrating

visual

kbannon wrote: »

Yeah, typo*
Faster = lower consumption.


* eating a lovely lunch and not concentrating

Hope your not hogging up overtaking lane eating lovely lunch )))

_Kaiser_

I'd say 140 would probably be a good compromise myself. There are several motorways in this country that are practically deserted for long stretches where doing 120 feels like you might as well walk. I do drive a "big-engined" comfortable mileage muncher though - in a 1.3 petrol it's a very different feeling!

For roads like the M50/N40 and N7 there should be variable limits that adjust depending on factors like traffic volume, road/weather conditions etc.. during peak hours 80 km/h may be more appropriate at certain points, but at 3/4am in the morning there's no reason 120-140 shouldn't be permissible. Of course this being Ireland they'd more likely just reduce it to 60 km/h for 24 hours a day!

Seth Brundle

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I'd say 140 would probably be a good compromise myself. There are several motorways in this country that are practically deserted for long stretches where doing 120 feels like you might as well walk. I do drive a "big-engined" comfortable mileage muncher though - in a 1.3 petrol it's a very different feeling!

Whilst you may be able to manage 140km/h, most Irish drivers would not manage these speeds and would in some cases become a danger on the road.
I'd be more in faviour of smart policing whereby the gardai turn a blind eye to someone exceeding the speed limit on a motorway were the conditions to suit it.

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

For roads like the M50/N40 and N7 there should be variable limits that adjust depending on factors like traffic volume, road/weather conditions etc.. during peak hours 80 km/h may be more appropriate at certain points, but at 3/4am in the morning there's no reason 120-140 shouldn't be permissible. Of course this being Ireland they'd more likely just reduce it to 60 km/h for 24 hours a day!

Variable speed limits would make sense.
I've driven the M50 at the dead of night and it doesn't make sense. By having electronic speed limit signs interacting with the existing traffic counters, they should be able to manage this.

visual wrote: »

Hope your not hogging up overtaking lane eating lovely lunch )))

Why not?
I pay my road tax! I can drive where I like, how I like!
Oh, and I posted that message from my phone too!

koutoubia

Henry Ford III wrote: »

I think the 120kph limit is fine. You can make great progress on the system at that speed.

Lane discipline, particularly on the M50, is a huge problem however.

IMO
The M50 isnt too bad but M1 is appaling.
On a daily basis where it opens to 3 lanes after the Donabate turn you consistently get people sitting in the middle lane at under 100kph where everything else except trucks are moving at well over 100.

mikeecho

Delete

Apologies for any previous post that may have caused offence.

mikeecho

I hope everyone here acknowledges that there is very little police enforcement on motorways, thus you can drive with immunity.

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I've driven from cork to Donegal and I didn't meet a speed trap, robot van or gosafe van, and ditto on the return journey.

The sooner ppl realised that Ireland has little or no road enforcement, they might stop complaining about the one time they got caught because of their own inattentiveness.

Boskowski

CiniO wrote: »

How do drivers get away with driving at much higher speeds on 2 lane motorways in Germany?
I'd risk saying that most unrestricted sections are 2 lanes. It's even safer to drive fast on 2 lanes than 3 lanes as there's less possible scenarios to happen.

I don't know really whether unrestricted stretches are mostly in 2, 3 or 4 lanes, but of course large parts are not unrestricted in the first place. Its unrestricted where its safe to do so.
And while you get people driving over 200 km/h I find that most people will drive between 130 km/h and 180 km/h.
Even when I was a very young fella I found over 180 km/h for any prolonged periods can be very tiring. If your car is not built for it and you're a bit on the on the edge with it gets even worse.

Lane discipline is a lot better but an autobahn that is busy but not quite busy enough to slow things down can seem a very scary place to the untrained eye.

Jesus.

mikeecho wrote: »

I hope everyone here acknowledges that there is very little police enforcement on motorways, thus you can drive with immunity.
I've driven from cork to Donegal and I didn't meet a speed trap, robot van or gosafe van, and ditto on the return journey.The sooner ppl realised that Ireland has little or no road enforcement, they might stop complaining about the one time they got caught because of their own inattentiveness.

That's fair enough but it kinda sounds like you're complaining

CiniO

Victor wrote: »

A few things:
* In Germany, the driving test is arduous and it can take two years and thousands of euros to get your driving licence. In Ireland, it also takes two years and thousands of euros, but that's because people don't take it seriously.
* In Germany, people tend to follow the rules.

Probably that's true. But there are still idiots on the road, even in Germany.
Also remember that Germany are quite in the middle of Continent, and there is huge amount of drivers there, who are either tourists from abroad, or imigrants who moved to Germany recently, or just people travelling for business etc. All from different countries where driving standards might be much worse. And somehow this doesn't cause instance havoc.

* Until recently, Germany had highish levels of road deaths.
* In 2012, 358 people died on German motorways, 5 died on Irish motorways. that's 72 times the level of motorway deaths, with only 18 times the population and 12 times the amount of motorway.

If that data is real, that would actually suggest that indeed German motorways are much more dangerous.
One thing though I can't see there, is how much motorways in Germany are used to motorways in Ireland. F.e. amount of km driven by all vehicles on motorways per year.
I guess, that this factor would wipe out the result, putting Irish motorways probably equally safe to German ones.

CiniO

kbannon wrote: »

Whilst you may be able to manage 140km/h, most Irish drivers would not manage these speeds and would in some cases become a danger on the road.

Boskowski wrote: »

I don't know really whether unrestricted stretches are mostly in 2, 3 or 4 lanes, but of course large parts are not unrestricted in the first place. Its unrestricted where its safe to do so.
And while you get people driving over 200 km/h I find that most people will drive between 130 km/h and 180 km/h.
Even when I was a very young fella I found over 180 km/h for any prolonged periods can be very tiring. If your car is not built for it and you're a bit on the on the edge with it gets even worse.

Lane discipline is a lot better but an autobahn that is busy but not quite busy enough to slow things down can seem a very scary place to the untrained eye.

Here's some interesting facts.

I'm only guessing now, but my estimate is that while at the moment vast majority of drivers drive a good bit below 120km/h on motorways in Ireland at the moment, if we abandoned the speed limit, this wouldn't change. They would still cruise at 90km/h, 100km/h, 110km/h or whatever suits them.
Most people are not fond of driving fast, and are rather afraid of doing so.
Those who aren't usually don't care about speed limits and drive faster anyway.
That's why I said in the very beginning that I don't think abandoning speed limits would influence safety on motorways at all.

Driving at higher speeds is uneconomical, and very tiring.
At 160km/h most cars would burn nearly double the amount of fuel which would be burnt at 100km/h. How many people can afford that?

Driving at 160km/h or more requires really great engagement in driving. There's not much time left for chatting to the passenger, fiddling with a radio, etc.. You just need to sit holding your wheel properly, observing road far ahead and being ready to react right away. It is really tiring.
After doing nearly 400km in Germany in 2.5 hours I was absolutely wrecked, as I had to keep about 200km/h most of the time.

For those reasons, I believe vast majority of people would not drive above 110-130km/h even if there were no limit.

booooring!

Minimun speed limit of 80 km/h should be set. Old people doing 60 km/h or less is an accident waiting to happen.

I also see someone talking about new drivers and lack of expierence. Plenty of new drivers are better drivers after passing the test than people who have been driving 20 years and vice versa. A lot of idiots in both categories as well.

Speed limit should be increased depending on engine size. Do you really want a punto or corsa or something driving on the motorway at 160 km/h.

On a motorway I know it's usually 150 km/h I go and ones I don't I stick to the speed limit.

CiniO

There's a good example from Poland where motorway speed limit was increased 4 years ago from 130km/h to 140km/h.

Results:
- No increase in accidents, deaths or injuries on motorway. There was even a small decrese, despite fact that motorway network was extended.
- Average speed people normally travel on motorways has actually decreased.

And that's my observations. If you drive at 140km/h on Polish motorway, you are faster than 95% of vehicles, and slower than 5% of vehicles. At 120km/h you are still faster than about 80% of vehicles. So in general vast majority drive way slower than speed limit, and only a handfull exceed it, even though no one is going to get fined until they exceed 150km/h as there is 10km/h leeway taken by police.

People just can't afford to drive faster and even if they can, they can't be bothered to concentrate as much to be able to drive that fast.

CiniO

booooring! wrote: »

Minimun speed limit of 80 km/h should be set.

This can not be done, as there is already maximum speed limit of 80km/h set for many vehicles.
What would you expect them to do? Drive at exactly 80km/h as anything else like 79km/h or 81km/h would be illegal?

Speed limit should be increased depending on engine size. Do you really want a punto or corsa or something driving on the motorway at 160 km/h.

That's nonsense. Nearly every modern car is suitable to safely drive at such speeds even if it's small like punto or corsa.
I've done some crazy speeds in small cars like cinquecento and never had any problems.

FortySeven

The other day I got stuck behind a nun who thought that she should stop in the outside lane whilst indicating left to get to the off ramp, I had my hazards on as soon as I realised she was going to stop for real and was blowing the horn and flashing the lights as car after car swerved to the inside lane to avoid us. I was close to getting out and running for it when traffic eased and she was able to make the turn. I was shaking like a leaf. Not funny.

I love driving and think 120kph is comical for modern cars and roads but, and it is a huge flashing light but, there are people on the roads who should not be let out on a bicycle, I see them daily. The speed limits are there for them. The rest of us have to just live with the wasted time and penalty points.

booooring!

CiniO wrote: »

This can not be done, as there is already maximum speed limit of 80km/h set for many vehicles.
What would you expect them to do? Drive at exactly 80km/h as anything else like 79km/h or 81km/h would be illegal?


That's nonsense. Nearly every modern car is suitable to safely drive at such speeds even if it's small like punto or corsa.
I've done some crazy speeds in small cars like cinquecento and never had any problems.

So you think that's it's not a bit dangerous in the slightest for someone to be going 50 km/h on the motorway? Your argument is like why even set a max speed limit? What are people going to drive at 121 km/h? Im talking about cars and not trucks by the way.

And yes it is safer to be doing higher speeds in a more powerful car than a small car struggling as better breaking power, turning power, better acceleration, better grip at higher speeds. A

CiniO

booooring! wrote: »

So you think that's it's not a bit dangerous in the slightest for someone to be going 50 km/h on the motorway?

It's not ideal if someone does that, but I can't see how could there be a law against it. Sometimes there genuinely is a need for someone to drive slower.
I've never heard of any country, where motorway minimal speed limit would be as low high as 80km/h.

Your argument is like why even set a max speed limit? What are people going to drive at 121 km/h?

I don't really understand that.
Just try to answer how would you see legislation putting minimum limit at 80km/h and maximum limit at 80km/h for some vehicles. How do you imagine this can be achieved?

Im talking about cars and not trucks by the way.

All right. What's the difference? So you say trucks can drive slower, but car's can't?
BTW - I wasn't talking about trucks as well - they are actually limited to 90km/h on motorways not 80km/h.

And yes it is safer to be doing higher speeds in a more powerful car than a small car struggling as better breaking power, turning power, better acceleration, better grip at higher speeds. A

Small car can have the same good braking, the same good grip, and the same good turning power as bigger car. It can also be more powerful, but I can't see any argument why more powerful car would be more suitable for higher speeds in safety point of view.
Yes - it is more comfortable to do 160km/h in big engines big vehicle, than 1 litre tiny car. But from safety point of view I can't see a difference except in case if you crash you are way more likely to die in small car.

legomanx51v

mikeecho wrote: »

I hope everyone here acknowledges that there is very little police enforcement on motorways, thus you can drive with immunity.

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I've driven from cork to Donegal and I didn't meet a speed trap, robot van or gosafe van, and ditto on the return journey.

The sooner ppl realised that Ireland has little or no road enforcement, they might stop complaining about the one time they got caught because of their own inattentiveness.

Tell that to the Gard with a speed gun hiding behind a mud ramp on the M8 about 50km out from cork.
143kph on a dry sunny summers day at 11.30am in a 3.0 diesel. No leeway at all. 3 points and fine. Screw 'em.

legomanx51v

CiniO wrote: »

But from safety point of view I can't see a difference except in case if you crash you are way more likely to die in small car.

When else is safety important, if not in the event of a crash??

CiniO

legomanx51v wrote: »

When else is safety important, if not in the event of a crash??

It's obvious that in small vehicle every crash will have much more effect on chances of surviving of its occupants than in a bigger, heavier car.
It's just a risk people are taking by driving small cars.

But driving small vehicle doesn't affect chances of being involved in a crash, as small car can brake, handle and accelerate the same good or better than much bigger and much more powerful cars.

redlead

A lot depends on what car that you are driving too. If I'm driving my Yarris I feel that 110 is the most comfortable speed for it as it just doesn't have the same road holding as a bigger car. If I'm driving my Passat I could comfortably drive 160. If I could change the limit I would put it up to 130 but wouldn't want a lot of people out there doing much more than that. My cruising speed was always 140 but just stick to 120 now as the Gardaí seem obsessed with racking up cash on the motorways.

novarock

legomanx51v wrote: »

Tell that to the Gard with a speed gun hiding behind a mud ramp on the M8 about 50km out from cork.
143kph on a dry sunny summers day at 11.30am in a 3.0 diesel. No leeway at all. 3 points and fine. Screw 'em.

If he clocked you at 143, then your speedo was probably reading 150+ due to the general inaccuracy of them. This is why outside lane hoggers who are sticking to the 120 reading on their car are a pain in the arse.

Realistically, our limit is 120, The Gardai don't seem interested unless you break 140, and most drivers are perfectly safe at 130.

Mister Jingles

What is/are the leniency of go safe vans on motorways generally ?