Eir rural FTTH thread

Gwynston

What model number of Fritz!box is the best value/performance option to get better WiFi?
Looking around, some are quite expensive, but I think I read that the one supplied by other FTTH providers is closer to €100, but I'm not sure the model number.

Marlow

Gwynston wrote: »

What model number of Fritz!box is the best value/performance option to get better WiFi?
Looking around, some are quite expensive, but I think I read that the one supplied by other FTTH providers is closer to €100, but I'm not sure the model number.

It depends on what features you want.

For FTTH, your choices are the 4040, 7560 and 7582.

4040 has no VoIP and DECT base. So pure wifi+router. Should retail around 90 EUR.

7560 has VoIP, DSL modem (and Gbit/s WAN option), DECT base, analogue port etc. Retails about 120 EUR.

7582 .. is the top model ... and don't even ask about pricing .. 200 EUR range.

/M

shigllgetcha

Gwynston wrote: »

What model number of Fritz!box is the best value/performance option to get better WiFi?
Looking around, some are quite expensive, but I think I read that the one supplied by other FTTH providers is closer to €100, but I'm not sure the model number.

Couldnt you just buy a router and use the F2000 just as a bridge?

Marlow

shigllgetcha wrote: »

Couldnt you just buy a router and use the F2000 just as a bridge?

Wireless is not the only issue with the F2000.

/M

KeRbDoG

shigllgetcha wrote: »

Couldnt you just buy a router and use the F2000 just as a bridge?

Couldn't you just use any router (with wifi or not) which has an ethernet (gigabit ideally) WAN port with a FTTH service or am I missing something the F2000 does that special?

Marlow

KeRbDoG wrote: »

Couldn't you just use any router (with wifi or not) which has an ethernet (gigabit ideally) WAN port with a FTTH service or am I missing something the F2000 does that special?

- Needs to bit Gbit/s ...because all FTTH is more than 100 Mbit/s.
- Needs to support 802.1q on the WAN port (VLAN), because the PPPoE session on both OpenEIR FTTC, FTTH and SIRO FTTH gets established on Vlan 10 (opposed to untagged traffic).

Otherwise, yes, you can replace it with anything above, that can deal with those 2 requirements.

/M

banjopeter

Gwynston wrote: »

What model number of Fritz!box is the best value/performance option to get better WiFi?
Looking around, some are quite expensive, but I think I read that the one supplied by other FTTH providers is closer to €100, but I'm not sure the model number.

The box Digiweb supply is the Fritz!Box 7560
I've had no issues with it, as opposed to the F2000 , which my neighbours have found very unsatisfactory, necessitating the use of wifi extenders.

KeRbDoG

Marlow wrote: »

- Needs to bit Gbit/s ...because all FTTH is more than 100 Mbit/s.
- Needs to support 802.1q on the WAN port (VLAN), because the PPPoE session on both OpenEIR FTTC, FTTH and SIRO FTTH gets established on Vlan 10 (opposed to untagged traffic).

Otherwise, yes, you can replace it with anything above, that can deal with those 2 requirements.

/M

Many devices out there that can replace the F2000 completely so

sean72

Well the news just gets worse in my FTTH/C story. A neighbour who is closer to the cabinet than me (200m versus my 450m) tells me shes getting 27mb/s. I thought that 30mb/s was the minimum to even be part of this rollout.

So the trundle downhill from my 1000mb excitement, to 100mb, to up to 50mb, has now reached a new 'low' literally.

My install is next week

The Cush

sean72 wrote: »

Well the news just gets worse in my FTTH/C story. A neighbour who is closer to the cabinet than me (200m versus my 450m) tells me shes getting 27mb/s. I thought that 30mb/s was the minimum to even be part of this rollout.

200m from the cabinet would be closer to 100 Mbps, close to the cabinet but connected to the exchange most likely.

FTTC/VDSL (up to 100 Mbps) speed vs. copper line distance

sean72

The Cush wrote: »

200m from the cabinet would be closer to 100 Mbps, close to the cabinet but connected to the exchange most likely.

FTTC/VDSL (up to 100 Mbps) speed vs. copper line distance

Yeah I have seen this before but then once the cabinet went active and you enter phone numbers from my local area into the eir line checker, it says speeds up 50m. So that was the first alarm bell... but for whatever reason poor copper, connections etc the speed just gets lower and lower.

However, I thought at a bare minimum it had to be 30mb? We must have the worst copper in Ireland ---

Bored Accountant

sean72 wrote: »

However, I thought at a bare minimum it had to be 30mb? We must have the worst copper in Ireland ---

'High Speed Broadband' is being considered 30mb.
The national Broadband plan etc is that everyone would have greater than 30mb broadband.

If you are supplied with a speed less than 30mb, but according to the NBP are to be delivered in the 300k, I would be contacting NBP so say eir aren't meeting their commitment.

sean72

sean72 wrote: »

Yeah I have seen this before but then once the cabinet went active and you enter phone numbers from my local area into the eir line checker, it says speeds up 50m. So that was the first alarm bell... but for whatever reason poor copper, connections etc the speed just gets lower and lower.

However, I thought at a bare minimum it had to be 30mb? We must have the worst copper in Ireland ---

I didn’t ask my neighbour if they gotten the Eir TV box as part of her package. I think she did mention she was interested in this before though. If she has Eir TV don’t they dedicate some bandwidth to these boxes?

Ultimanemo

And when you are 4200 metres away from the exchange?

ED E

sean72 wrote: »

Well the news just gets worse in my FTTH/C story. A neighbour who is closer to the cabinet than me (200m versus my 450m) tells me shes getting 27mb/s. I thought that 30mb/s was the minimum to even be part of this rollout.

So the trundle downhill from my 1000mb excitement, to 100mb, to up to 50mb, has now reached a new 'low' literally.

My install is next week

sean72 wrote: »

I didn’t ask my neighbour if they gotten the Eir TV box as part of her package. I think she did mention she was interested in this before though. If she has Eir TV don’t they dedicate some bandwidth to these boxes?

There's something bringing that cab down. The minimum PSD/freq settings give you a 70Mb service which close premises should make.

Her like is likely a 34Mb line set to 28Mb for stability for TV, a requirement. When each STB is on it allocates 4-8Mb for itself so you take that away from the stable profile. That means a 50Mb line can become 40Mb -4, -4 ,-4 giving a final 28Mb for internet use in the most extreme cases.

Ultimanemo wrote: »

And when you are 4200 metres away from the exchange?

ADSL2+ instead. 24Mb at 0m, 0.5Mb at 5km, 2 or 3 at 4km.

The Cush

ED E wrote: »

ADSL2+ instead. 24Mb at 0m, 0.5Mb at 5km, 2 or 3 at 4km.

My brother is on ADSL2+, line length 4.4+ kms, modem syncs at just over 7 Mbps, consistent 5-6 Mbps since the exchange went NGA.

ED E

The Cush wrote: »

My brother is on ADSL2+, line length 4.4+ kms, modem syncs at just over 7 Mbps, consistent 5-6 Mbps since the exchange went NGA.

It varies a lot at those ranges. Parts of north Galway with weird routing but no homes at all syncing at 8.2km! But its not normal so I give conservative estimates. Especially when the copper network needs TLC.

sean72

ED E wrote: »

There's something bringing that cab down. The minimum PSD/freq settings give you a 70Mb service which close premises should make.

Her like is likely a 34Mb line set to 28Mb for stability for TV, a requirement. When each STB is on it allocates 4-8Mb for itself so you take that away from the stable profile. That means a 50Mb line can become 40Mb -4, -4 ,-4 giving a final 28Mb for internet use in the most extreme cases.



ADSL2+ instead. 24Mb at 0m, 0.5Mb at 5km, 2 or 3 at 4km.

Thanks a million for the detailed explanation. Can I ask one final question. As I did not order Eir TV I imagine that I can get higher speed as I won’t have bandwidth set aside.

The Cush

ED E wrote: »

It varies a lot at those ranges. Parts of north Galway with weird routing but no homes at all syncing at 8.2km! But its not normal so I give conservative estimates. Especially when the copper network needs TLC.

Just a quick question on line distance measurement, an open eir technician at our house carrying out a line repair last year measured the line distance at 4483m with a handheld meter, how accurate is such a measurement and can this vary with line noise, bad connections etc.?

ED E

sean72 wrote: »

Thanks a million for the detailed explanation. Can I ask one final question. As I did not order Eir TV I imagine that I can get higher speed as I won’t have bandwidth set aside.

I'd expect both of you to get higher speeds. It may just be a case of the neighbour having useless bell wire inside the house.

Best bet is let them install and test it, if its very low ask the tech should you not get more and to please check it. Often enough they disconnect old cabling while fitting and vastly improve figures (the limit cant be raised until a new test is done though).

The Cush wrote: »

Just a quick question on line distance measurement, an open eir technician at our house carrying out a line repair last year measured the line distance at 4483m with a handheld meter, how accurate is such a measurement and can this vary with line noise, bad connections etc.?

The numbers we look at on here are signal based (attenuation, SNRM, etc) and can be way out of whack but depending on what kit he's using he's doing POTS testing with the MTAU board in the exchange. That tests line capacitance (don't ask me to explain exactly what that is, thats for the electrical engineers) but its on the lower level of voltage/resistance over the loop. So if you put a DSL filter in the wrong place you'll get 63.5dB attenuation as it kills the signal but the capacitance will still show the correct length (say 1km instead of 5+).

Those test are really on fooled by breaks (value will be too low) or bad joints where it may read a little high. They're also based on entirely uniform cabling which in a network with 30yo cabling and new stuff isnt 100% accurate but I'd call it so close as it doesnt matter.

Update: Capacitance is measured on both legs too so the tech can tell if its nicked say half way down one leg if he's awake.

Ultimanemo

Thank you all for the replies

The Cush

ED E wrote: »

The numbers we look at on here are signal based (attenuation, SNRM, etc) and can be way out of whack but depending on what kit he's using he's doing POTS testing with the MTAU board in the exchange. That tests line capacitance (don't ask me to explain exactly what that is, thats for the electrical engineers) but its on the lower level of voltage/resistance over the loop. So if you put a DSL filter in the wrong place you'll get 63.5dB attenuation as it kills the signal but the capacitance will still show the correct length (say 1km instead of 5+).

Those test are really on fooled by breaks (value will be too low) or bad joints where it may read a little high. They're also based on entirely uniform cabling which in a network with 30yo cabling and new stuff isnt 100% accurate but I'd call it so close as it doesnt matter.

Update: Capacitance is measured on both legs too so the tech can tell if its nicked say half way down one leg if he's awake.

Great reply, thanks. A repository of knowledge as always.

The high horse brigade

KeRbDoG wrote: »

Many devices out there that can replace the F2000 completely so

Just becase a device has a gigabit Wan port doesn't mean it can NAT at gigabit speeds

ED E

^ Very true, of late we've had two posters buy expensive higher end hardware and had problems with just that.

KeRbDoG

ED E wrote: »

^ Very true, of late we've had two posters buy expensive higher end hardware and had problems with just that.

Would be great to see the devices which had problems listed like the FTTC alt. devices are, a quick look at my current device running (Asus RT-AC3200) tomato with a gig WAN port and supports 802.1q/VLAN setting on that port. Fingers crossed

Update/timeline of works on my road (local road off regional road);
07-06-2017 - Ground works completed, blow tubes at start of each local road
30-10-2017 - KN vans out cutting trees around overhead cable routes between poles on local fiber routes
14-11-2017 - KN vans out, starting to cable between poles on road
15-11-2017 - Cabling strung and the large splice boxes are up on the poles. Splicing most likely not done but hopefully in the coming days

'Live' date is March'18 so say the fibrepower@openeir.ie folks but the OpenEir site says second half of 2017 , so I won't hold my breath. Haven't checked to see if the 'D' poles have been replaced or not.

cnocbui

We are down for spring 2017. I am not aware that even ground works have ever been done, so spring 2018 is probably more like it going by that timeline. All a bit weird as poles were replaced many months ago and nothing since.

turbbo

cnocbui wrote: »

We are down for spring 2017. I am not aware that even ground works have ever been done, so spring 2018 is probably more like it going by that timeline. All a bit weird as poles were replaced many months ago and nothing since.

My area down for Winter 2018 - nothing has been done not even a slanty pole replaced. Does that mean 2019? The rollout seems to be very much behind as Navi mentioned earlier.

Bored Accountant

turbbo wrote: »

My area down for Winter 2018 - nothing has been done not even a slanty pole replaced. Does that mean 2019? The rollout seems to be very much behind as Navi mentioned earlier.

My area was down for Winter 2017. On last map update was changed to Winter2017/Spring2018. About 4 weeks noticed a bit of work going on around the underground ducts. In last fortnight ducting has appeared out of all the undergrounds ready to have the fibre fed through.

All the polls where splitters are going to be have little 'post it notes' nailed to them with the splitter details.



They will hardly last the whole winter on the poles, so hoping that means they will be along pretty soon to string the fibre on put up the splitters.

ads20101

ads20101 wrote: »

Hi chaps /chapesses in the know...

My house is down for Autumn / Winter 17 ftth.

The KN lads started digging holes and popping the lovely fibre through from last Thursday.

They have been working over the w/e and they are currently digging a hole only a few yards from my house.

So, what I am asking is, from your experience, how long does it take from the hole digging bit to allowing orders to be processed?

Ta

Well they dug a hole, went away....

and then yesterday evening they returned!!

This time to dig a far bigger hole in exactly the last place they dug.

They are still here nearly 24hrs later.

Its a tad tricky getting in and out of my drive but I'm sure it'll be worth it in the end.

Marlow

The high horse brigade wrote: »

Just becase a device has a gigabit Wan port doesn't mean it can NAT at gigabit speeds

ED E wrote: »

^ Very true, of late we've had two posters buy expensive higher end hardware and had problems with just that.

KeRbDoG wrote: »

Would be great to see the devices which had problems listed like the FTTC alt. devices are, a quick look at my current device running (Asus RT-AC3200) tomato with a gig WAN port and supports 802.1q/VLAN setting on that port. Fingers crossed

With SIRO, the providers actually have to prove during lab-test before deploying services, that they can provide the speeds they want to provide, using "a" router they use.

Serious providers would have tested the whole range of routers they have.

The Fritz!Box 7560 does Gbit/s speeds, without problems.

As SIRO and OpenEIR use the same FTTH platform, that gives a good idea and is comparable.

There are some of the devices out there, while having Gbit/s ports, that don't have the CPU power to pass Gbit/s speeds.

The Gbit/s port only means, it can pass more than 100 Mbit/s. It doesn't mean it can route Gbit/s at wire speed.

Give you an idea about some more complex router, that some businesses could use:
Routerboard hAP ac = max 350 Mbit/s
Routerboard 2011UiAS = max 600 Mbit/s
Routerboard 1100AHx4 = Gbit/s and up.

These are fairly complex routers and in the same price range (or more) than for example the Fritz!Box 7560. But they first 2 are not geared for full Gbit/s routed/nat'd. Just examples, that I've tested first hand.

/M