Whats the difference between PND and just being mentally worn out?

Nicman

Hi,
My baby is 7 months old I am still on maternity leave. I had a very traumatic birth, hemorrhaging afterwards, in and out of consciousness for an hour and a half and needing transfusions, and also there were some incidents during the labour. I didn't bong with the baby for some time. I tried for 3 weeks to breastfeed with zero milk (due to the trauma I now know) with a big hungry crying baby.He then went on to have colic and after that ended we had a couple of enjoyable nights although he never really slept well. the last 2-3 months he has had a run of ear infections & viruses and I am feeling increasingly low, teary, angry, irritable and not very stable being honest. I had put the labour out of my head but lately it keeps flashing back in my mind and really upsets me.I can't talk about it because i feel like if i start crying I'll never stop. When friends tell me they're pregnant instead of feeling elated for them I feel sick to the stomach and can't breathe - I feel afraid for them.
The last few weeks I've found myself thinking horrible thoughts about my baby and feeling detached from him alot. I was always great for getting out with him but the last couple of months I try to avoid it as it's just hassle with his crankiness and feeding.
So my question is how the hell can you know if you've had postnatal depression all along and just done well at masking it, or are these feelings the result of exhaustion and being overwhelmed? I don't enjoy my baby anymore, I don't look forward to anything (eg our first christmas together)...anyone else experience this or have any advice or thoughts?

lolademmers

God you poor thing you've really been through the mill. Sounds similar labour wise to a friend of mine. She was diagnosed with PND but now they think she had post traumatic stress disorder. Have you spoke to a doctor or health nurse? Have you family and friends near by that can help out?

bp

I would talk to your GP and have a read of the pnd tread here (will try get it).

I had a tough labour (not really as bad as yours) and found the bond slow to form.

Try get out with friends (and no baby) to find a bit of the old you.

Good luck and remember this happens to a lot of women, people just dont talk about it

bp

I cannot post the link but if you look for all threads started by neyite (a moderator - listed down the bottom) you will see it

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=94641667

Nicman

lolademmers wrote: »

God you poor thing you've really been through the mill. Sounds similar labour wise to a friend of mine. She was diagnosed with PND but now they think she had post traumatic stress disorder. Have you spoke to a doctor or health nurse? Have you family and friends near by that can help out?

How did they come around to realise it was PTSD and the differences between the two? I forgot to add that I do feel guilty and remind myself every day of all the people who have lost babies or have babies with disabilities and how lucky we are to have a healthy baby- I try to rationalise this in my head over and over...
I haven't spoken to my GP I don't know why, I feel embarrassed I suppose. There's no way I would talk to family or friends, when my labour even came up and how it was they always immediately saif things like "well aren't you fine now and you've a healthy baby and that's all that matters"... in other words "that's enough of that talk now get over it"! My sisters don't want to know and unknown to herself my mother always compares saying things like "well she just gets on with it" (ie just shut up and get on with it) or "she's better able to cope with less sleep than you are"

Nicman

bp wrote: »

I would talk to your GP and have a read of the pnd tread here (will try get it).

I had a tough labour (not really as bad as yours) and found the bond slow to form.

Try get out with friends (and no baby) to find a bit of the old you.

Good luck and remember this happens to a lot of women, people just dont talk about it

Thanks BP - I guess that's why I never talk about it because I'm not sure if other women go through this and I don't want to be a 'moaner' and have people say "motherhood doesn't suit her and she's not coping that well" etc.

2xj3hplqgsbkym

Op, you have had a terrible time. My baby is 6 months old, I am exhausted. He still feeds every 3 hours, I can't remember the last time I actually slept a full night. My 2 year old has taken to having tantrums in the middle if the night , thus waking the 4 year old. I am back in work for over a month and my husband works long shifts at weekends so I never have a day off. I often feel exhausted and stressed that I can't get everything done etc...

However I know I don't have PND because I still laugh everyday and I am still happy MOST of the time. I remember those two questions from the hospital , something like " do you laugh often/ sometimes/ not a lot " and do you feel happy always/ most of the time / sometimes/ never" .

Would you ring your phn? Your baby will have a 7 month check up with her and you could bring it up then.
Do you have a partner you can talk to?
Don't leave it just because you are embarrassed, if you speak to someone you could be so much happier and enjoy precious time with baby all the more.

Nicman

Wow you've alot going on rosebush - I guess I'm always saying to myself as well that other mothers have the same lack of sleep etc going on and they have more than 1 child and they manage fine so I'm always telling myself to pull myself together. So do you have times where you feel like you want to harm your child when you're really tired and frustrated or do you feel detached from them ever? Like I suppose I'm wondering are these feelings normal when you're under a bit of pressure. I didn't even know he was meant to have a 7 month check my PHN is useless, never told me that! It depends which PHN is on I find one of them really snotty and unapproachable. Like I actually asked her the last time I was in which was at his 5 or 6 month check if it was possible to develop PND later on and she looked at me like I asked her for cocaine and said no and moved onto the next topic! I might make an appointment with my GP

livinsane

You really need a good chat with someone face to face. Its amazing what talking it out can do for our problems. It's a real shame your family and friends aren't being supportive. Most women love talking about and comparing labours! I still go over mine in my head two years later. Even a non-traumatic labour is a shock to the system. You feel like you've been through a war with your body.

Exhaustion is a cruel thing but it sounds like what you're feeling goes beyond it. My worst point was the 3-4 month mark when my baby woke almost every hour at night for about ten weeks straight. It was the loneliest time, when the nights were as long as the days. Even when he was asleep, I couldn't sleep because I was waiting for him to wake - like that Chinese torture where they drop water on your head every twenty minutes! I used to fantasise about being able to pause time so I could sleep while everyone was frozen in time, and I wouldn't have to worry about them. But every night I went to bed feeling positive that tonight would be the night when he finally slept. Again when I went back to work, I could barely function from the tiredness, couldn't string a sentence together, but I was fundamentally happy.

I'd say start with having a good chat with someone. Does your partner know how you feel? Is there any other mothers you know that you could meet up with? Sometimes it is easier to talk to someone when they are not to close to you. Are you getting time to yourself without baby? You are totally justified to be feeling the way you are so don't feel guilty or ashamed to be wearing the ear off someone.

Nicman

livinsane wrote: »

You really need a good chat with someone face to face. Its amazing what talking it out can do for our problems. It's a real shame your family and friends aren't being supportive. Most women love talking about and comparing labours! I still go over mine in my head two years later. Even a non-traumatic labour is a shock to the system. You feel like you've been through a war with your body.

Exhaustion is a cruel thing but it sounds like what you're feeling goes beyond it. My worst point was the 3-4 month mark when my baby woke almost every hour at night for about ten weeks straight. It was the loneliest time, when the nights were as long as the days. Even when he was asleep, I couldn't sleep because I was waiting for him to wake - like that Chinese torture where they drop water on your head every twenty minutes! I used to fantasise about being able to pause time so I could sleep while everyone was frozen in time, and I wouldn't have to worry about them. But every night I went to bed feeling positive that tonight would be the night when he finally slept. Again when I went back to work, I could barely function from the tiredness, couldn't string a sentence together, but I was fundamentally happy.

I'd say start with having a good chat with someone. Does your partner know how you feel? Is there any other mothers you know that you could meet up with? Sometimes it is easier to talk to someone when they are not to close to you. Are you getting time to yourself without baby? You are totally justified to be feeling the way you are so don't feel guilty or ashamed to be wearing the ear off someone.

Thanks Livinsane for your support as well as the others
Yeah I have neighbours who are mums of new babies too and I've tested the waters making jokes about the frustration just to see if they had the same feeling but I don't think they do. I'd be too embarrassed to be honest to tell them what's going on inside my mind - they think I've it all under control cause the house happens to be tidy when they call and I seem confident but it's the complete opposite!
I don't get time to myself no. We live at least an hour from both families and it's only a couple of months ago that I got a number for a local babysitter but we haven't been able to use her yet as he's been sick almost non stop since then. I go back to work in a month and always thought my last month would be the most enjoyable and that I'd savour every day spent with my baby but I dread every day now and don't enjoy it at all. I don't feel like I can tell my husband because I think he's feeling the effects from exhaustion too and really I just don't want him thinking he just married a basket case! I'm afraid the pressure of holding us all together will get too much for him.

The more I read now the more I think I just need to talk to my GP and see where to go from here..... thanks x

Kaylami

I had my baby in august 2014 and was diagnosed with pnd in October. For me it was a shock I assumed everyone felt like this after having a baby and she was my 3rd. Luckily my phn and gp figured out what was going on. The important thing is to be honest with them about how you feel. They aren't there to judge just to help.
It really helped me to speak to a counsellor about how I was feeling which they set up for me.

Being a parent is tough and more so when your not feeling 100%!

monflat

I feel for you and empathise with you op.
What you describe was me 5yrs ago.
I just found being a first time mother so so difficult to adapt to.
It's not what you see in magazines or on Internet! Smiling mothers happy babies.
I was pure miserable.
Got no joy from anything.ate all around me.
Wondered why oh why did I marry my husband as I found he was no support (he just was helpless he didn't want to suggest anything)
When he did suggest that I need to see someone I'd ate him!
I presumed everyone went through this but was in denial anything was wrong with me.
I had a traumatic emergency section too and that bonding never happened for a long long time.

I urge you to make appointment with gp.
It took me 11months to make appointment.
If you have an understanding phn talk to her and maybe ask her to make appointment if you feel that part is difficult.
I found picking up the phone was one of the hardest things to do.

I was prescribed a few tablets and within weeks I was feeling better.

5 yrs on she started school and I do think about it alot and regret not getting help sooner.

I have 3 children in total and dealing with the 3 of them is nothing compared to the difficult period of having a first born adapting to be a new mother and PND.

Best of luck and it is very common to not feel yourself or not to cope well after childbirth.

lolademmers

One thing I will say to you is don't compare yourself to other mothers!! You think someone has their sh!t together and they could be struggling too. I remember after my first was born what a shock it was the hormones and huge sense of responsibility for this tiny baby. It was overwhelming especially coz no one had ever mentioned it. So now I'm very vocal about my experience and because I was one of the first out of my friends to have a baby I think I prepared them all lol!! Yet they all had their own struggles too but we talked about them. That's half the battle.

bp

Also if you feel you want to harm your baby take a step back or outside. Put them safely in their cot and take 10 seconds to yourself.

I bet all those other mammies are struggling (to a lesser extent) but don't want to moan and probably think wow she has it down, I wish I was more like her.

In relation to your mother that is the generation that was told to grin and bear it, which is not good for your mental health. I would say your family don't know how to help as mental illness is often misunderstood in Ireland.

Keep posting here and be kind to yourself. I have guilt coming out of my ears in relation to my non-sleeping baby but once I let it out and told my husband everything I was feeling (and posted in that thread I mentioned) I did begin to feel better.

You need to look after yourself x

Nicman

monflat wrote: »

I feel for you and empathise with you op.
What you describe was me 5yrs ago.
I just found being a first time mother so so difficult to adapt to.
It's not what you see in magazines or on Internet! Smiling mothers happy babies.
I was pure miserable.
Got no joy from anything.ate all around me.
Wondered why oh why did I marry my husband as I found he was no support (he just was helpless he didn't want to suggest anything)
When he did suggest that I need to see someone I'd ate him!
I presumed everyone went through this but was in denial anything was wrong with me.
I had a traumatic emergency section too and that bonding never happened for a long long time.

I urge you to make appointment with gp.
It took me 11months to make appointment.
If you have an understanding phn talk to her and maybe ask her to make appointment if you feel that part is difficult.
I found picking up the phone was one of the hardest things to do.

I was prescribed a few tablets and within weeks I was feeling better.

5 yrs on she started school and I do think about it alot and regret not getting help sooner.

I have 3 children in total and dealing with the 3 of them is nothing compared to the difficult period of having a first born adapting to be a new mother and PND.

Best of luck and it is very common to not feel yourself or not to cope well after childbirth.

Thanks for sharing I really appreciate it, I'm tearing up here reading this. You're right,I hate to live with regrets and try not to so I'd hate myself for regretting not getting help and not enjoying my son because of it, or not being the mother I can be for him. Thanks. After all the support from everyone here I'm going to make an appointment tomorrow with my GP. I just broke down to my husband about it all and God love him he's great.

monflat

Op
Does your husband have a day off from work.?
Can you plan something for that whole day?
Hair \spa treatments shopping \ walk \ freshair whatever.

I know you said your going back to work soon I'm just thinking that I actually enjoyed goin back to some normality and having adult chit chat on my break times.
It's only then I realised how difficult the past year had been for me.
I found that the time away from her made me see actually I'm not feeling right I'm not who I used to be.

Maybe let your husband take care of baby for a day to start with.
He will be ok and you need your time off.
I used to love my time to myself.
It was actually great therapy!

Nicman

bp wrote: »

Also if you feel you want to harm your baby take a step back or outside. Put them safely in their cot and take 10 seconds to yourself.

I bet all those other mammies are struggling (to a lesser extent) but don't want to moan and probably think wow she has it down, I wish I was more like her.

In relation to your mother that is the generation that was told to grin and bear it, which is not good for your mental health. I would say your family don't know how to help as mental illness is often misunderstood in Ireland.

Keep posting here and be kind to yourself. I have guilt coming out of my ears in relation to my non-sleeping baby but once I let it out and told my husband everything I was feeling (and posted in that thread I mentioned) I did begin to feel better.

You need to look after yourself x

BP thanks so much I found and read that whole thread and it was very helpful. I'm starting to realise now this is not just feelings as a result of tiredness and for the sake of me, my baby and my husband I need to get help and as I said I don't want to have regrets and certainly don't want to put my baby in any kind of danger. Thanks for everything tonight ladies. Xx

Nicman

monflat wrote: »

Op
Does your husband have a day off from work.?
Can you plan something for that whole day?
Hair \spa treatments shopping \ walk \ freshair whatever.

Maybe let your husband take care of baby for a day to start with.
He will be ok and you need your time off.
I used to love my time to myself.
It was actually great therapy!

Yeah he's off Saturdays and I know it's ridiculous but I feel guilty leaving him on his own with him for a full day! But I was thinking that yesterday that I need a day this weekend to myself...I feel like I'm smothering.

monflat

Nicman wrote: »

Yeah he's off Saturdays and I know it's ridiculous but I feel guilty leaving him on his own with him for a full day! But I was thinking that yesterday that I need a day this weekend to myself...I feel like I'm smothering.

Totally!
I suppose I used to find it hard to describe I was in a big dark deep hole screaming for help showing all the signs but no one took notice or heard me.

Firstly you have taken the step to come on here.
Do go and do something nice for yourself.
I know your the mother but once babies are fed changed and entertained they will be ok!!
Take this time now and do something nice.
I find when they are older standing at the door screaming after you it pulls on your heart strings worse.

I'm goin away this Saturday for a day and night.
I know all three will cry but I need it.
I need it for me to make me their mammy a happy person.
If mammy ain't happy I'm contrary and I'm not a nice person to be around.!!!
I don't get out much and I've been out maybe 5 times for a few hours since my last was born 13 months ago.
But it is necessary!!
You need it too.
Take care

Nicman

We all need it don't we Monflat?! I suppose I never thought I needed time away from him on my own until very recently

bp

I am glad you spoke to your husband. Remember you were a person before a mammy and it is a big adjustment. Your husband will probably relish a day alone with baby and it will make him appreciate what you do everyday even more.

Keep talking to us x

Nicman

bp wrote: »

I am glad you spoke to your husband. Remember you were a person before a mammy and it is a big adjustment. Your husband will probably relish a day alone with baby and it will make him appreciate what you do everyday even more.

Keep talking to us x

Thanks BP... I think why I feel guilty to leave him with the baby is because he's a bit allergic to him lately as well - everything's a battle the last few weeks, naps, feeding etc. He whinges alot now but at the same time it would be no harm for him to see what I do all day. Baby is crying now upstairs and won't go to sleep. First time I've ever done it but I've closed his door and turned off the monitor. I'm afraid of what I'll do if I go up there :-(

monflat

Have you anyone close by op? Ring a friend ring your husband tell him to come home it's an emergency as you can't cope.
He needs to help you now.
If you had a physical accident and fell and hurt yourself he would need to help you.
This is the same you Physically can't cope your tired.

Please keep posting here for some support and please make an appointment as treatment may take a few weeks to take effect

bp

Even call a neighbour - you need a nice cuppa. also babies feed off us (happiness, stress etc) hence you need to find some relaxation so he can relax. Co-sleep if that works etc.

And yes, call your husband to come home he needs to help you xxx

Lucuma

Nicman, you poor, poor thing. I had PND and I can relate to so much of what you're written here.

Nicman wrote: »

I didn't bond with the baby for some time.

It took ages for me to bond with my baby. I thought she hated me because she was crying all the time. And when I tried talking to her to soothe her, she cried even more so I thought she hated the sound of my voice

Nicman wrote: »

When friends tell me they're pregnant instead of feeling elated for them I feel sick to the stomach and can't breathe - I feel afraid for them.

God I'm so glad to know someone else felt like this! My heart used to drop when I heard someone was having a baby, I used to think ''they're making such a huge mistake, their life is going to be ruined'.

Nicman wrote: »

I've found myself thinking horrible thoughts about my baby and feeling detached from him alot. I don't enjoy my baby, I don't look forward to anything (eg our first christmas together)

Yep that was me 100%.

Nicman wrote: »

So do you have times where you feel like you want to harm your child when you're really tired and frustrated or do you feel detached from them ever?

Yep. Been there. But you won't act on it don't worry. The fact you're coming on here and telling your husband means you're going to get the help you need and it will never come to that.

Nicman wrote: »

Yeah I have neighbours who are mums of new babies too and I've tested the waters making jokes about the frustration just to see if they had the same feeling but I don't think they do. I'd be too embarrassed to be honest to tell them what's going on inside my mind

Oh my god I did this.....testing the waters hoping to find others that felt like I did......and the mothers would Always say ''god I know it's so tough alright, but all worthwhile of course! Or they'd say ''the lack of sleep is tough but I wouldn't change it for the world!' that would put me back in my box as I realise the way I feel is wrong/terrible/I'm a failure as a mother.

I was very open with my DH from the off though (the poor man.....) I'm so glad you've confided in yours, you need his help to get through this. I second what the other posters have said - in tandem to getting the medication that you need you also need to start making time for yourself it's so important. You need to realise that you are still the same person you were before you had a baby and you still can have a life.

Going back to work Really helped with my PND (I went back at 10 weeks coz of it) coz I needed time away from the baby - it was the long days with the baby that were killing me. I found it much easier to cope with only evenings and weekends and having a part of my life where I was my old self. And I didn't feel guilty about it and you shouldn't either. You should try to get to a support group for PND if there's one near you. There's a group called Nurture you should look into. I really hope you have a nice sympathetic GP, mine was a lifesaver couldn't praise her enough.

Lucuma

monflat wrote: »

Please keep posting here for some support and please make an appointment as treatment may take a few weeks to take effect

This is a very important point. Anti-depressants take a few weeks to kick in, usually 3 weeks anyway. Then it gets better and better week by week (or if not, you may need your dose adjusted)

If you can't wait the few weeks for them to kick in the GP might start you on them anwyay but give you something that has immediate effect to tide you over til the anti-ds kick in.

Diamond Doll

I was diagnosed in summer of this year with post-natal depression, post-natal anxiety, post-natal panic disorder and PTSD from the birth. He was born in January 2014! So 18 months before it was all diagnosed.

I did try my best to get a diagnosis/treatment in the six months following his birth, but it was brushed under the carpet by the GPs/PHNs/etc I was dealing with.

As a result it was a lot more complex to treat. I've finally gotten the right treatment, but it would have been so much easier the sooner it had all been identified.

My advice would be to push and push for a diagnosis, and not to give up until you're getting the right treatment. And also to delay the return back to work as long as possible ... I went back full-time after six months, and did myself no favours in the long run in doing so!

rdhelp

Hi, I had a traumatic birth and baby went onto be very sick. After a couple of months I knew I wasn't feeling right so I spoke to my phn. She thought I had pnd, so I went to see a counsellor, turned out I had post traumatic stress. I too was reliving all of the traumatic experiences that surrounded the birth of my baby. My advice would be to go and get help, this feelings of being overwhelmed can be overcome with some counselling. It's the best thing I could have done, always remember its very brave and strong to be able to say I'm not ok and need help. You can get free counseling if you get referred by your gp. People think they're helping by saying its just hormones and kind of ignoring what you're saying. Just know that it's quite common to suffer with ptsd, and with some help you can feel better. I feel so much better now, it has allowed me to get back to myself and enjoy my baby. You're not alone and you can get better with some help.

Nicman

Oh my God thanks so much everyone for all your support I feel like you really do care. I started reading the new posts from today earlier and broke down half way through, it's so hard to face up to and all of your experiences make me so sad for you.
Lucuma, I never wish anyone would feel like this - but I was heartbroken for you in one sense and also relieved a little to know that those specific things I've felt or thought are not exclusive to me...not completely abnormal, radical or unthinkable. I can't believe you've gone through all the exact same thoughts and feelings and it makes me feel not so crazy! It's mad you felt the same when you heard someone was having a baby and not looking forward to anything, going back to work, still being on maternity leave, Christmas etc. I hope you feel alot better now.

Diamond Doll - I mentioned it to my PHN briefly a couple of months back - is it possible for PND to develop over time and not be immediate and she looked at me blankly raising an eyebrow and said "no? why? Do you have it?" or something to that effect. How horrific the people they put in place to look after our country's mothers. My GP is fabulous so I know she'll be great but I still find it embarrassing to tell her I don't know why. I live in a small village.

Thanks all about the fact that meds can take a few weeks, that's really great to know. I won't be disappointed or let down when I don't have an immediate band aid tomorrow morning when I see my doc. Thanks all, you are so supportive - so much more support than I've found anywhere else so far. Much love x

Nicman

rdhelp wrote: »

turned out I had post traumatic stress. I too was reliving all of the traumatic experiences that surrounded the birth of my baby. Just know that it's quite common to suffer with ptsd, and with some help you can feel better. I feel so much better now, it has allowed me to get back to myself and enjoy my baby. You're not alone and you can get better with some help.

I suppose that's something I had wondered as well was how do I know whether its PND, PTSD, or just tiredness! But I have a better idea now after you all sharing your experiences with me which I am so grateful for. Didn't know it was so common. I would say "why aren't people talking about it" but after the reaction I've gotten from friends and family when I've tested the waters I know absolutely why not.

bp

I am glad you are off to doctor. Remember they are trained for this.

Take care of yourself x