Anti Austerity Alliance - Keeping people in Poverty Trap

drunkmonkey

Getting a little tired of the moaning and whinging, the Anti Cuts alliance would not exist without people feeling like victims.
I feel people in this bubble need to move away from feeling downtrodden and face up to the fact were the 11th Richest county on the planet.
There's opportunity and wealth there for anyone who stands up and gives it everything they've got.

If they keep following the alliances there never going to better themselves and get stuck playing the hard done by card.

We hear they never benefited from the boom, well I'm sorry mate, that's your fault, get up off your ass and make something of your life.

I haven't paid my water bill as a fundamental human right we should be all entitled to clean fresh drinking and bathing water. I agree with the alliances on that.

It's really getting my goat though the same people trolling on Facebook and social media saying we should look after our own first and not take refugees, these very people have more supports and opportunities than most people in the world could ever wish for to better their lot.

You can't tell them that or you'll become the devil, how do we get the supposidly victimised to cop on and use the services and resources their being offered to stop sitting round bitching wearing pajamas in the daytime to sort their house out and follow the rest of us to a better life or is there just no hope for them as they have politicians who only exist if they remain in the poverty trap and support them?

I think Irish water should be taken from our taxes as part of an overall charge and stop empowering people who feed off the misery of others, only then can we move forward.

Do you think the government should sort out this water mess to take the power off the people who's only hope of being re-elected is keeling people feeling like victims and end there place in political history?

johnnyskeleton

Mod Note:

If this is a thinly veiled attempt at an Irish Water thread it will be merged with the existing ones.

If your main point is that some political parties encourage or thrive on the poverty trap then maybe you could provide some statistical support for this idea.

drunkmonkey

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

Mod Note:

If this is a thinly veiled attempt at an Irish Water thread it will be merged with the existing ones.

If your main point is that some political parties encourage or thrive on the poverty trap then maybe you could provide some statistical support for this idea.

No not a water thread, your second point is correct, I can't support my theory with statistics as I don't believe it's ever been researched, I'm just going by the people I know on Facebook but I'm well aware of their history pre boom and post austerity and feel like they've completely missed the boat following the wrong idols.

ireland.man

"There's opportunity and wealth there for anyone who stands up and gives it everything they've got...."

"I can't support my theory with statistics as I don't believe it's ever been researched, I'm just going by the people I know on Facebook"

An elderly man spending five days on a trolley in a hospital isn't guilty of "not giving everything he's got" to make it in our society. Leave that kind of talk for personal trainers in gyms.

There's plenty of victims of the economic system in Ireland and I don't think you're putting forth any coherent political opinion here, more of a visceral reaction to anti-cuts groups and the people who might support them.

FreudianSlippers

ireland.man wrote: »

An elderly man spending five days on a trolley in a hospital isn't guilty of "not giving everything he's got" to make it in our society. Leave that kind of talk for personal trainers in gyms.

But there is also little to no evidence to support the proposition that:

1) This is causative of "austerity" (especially considering this was occurring prior to same);
2) Pumping more money into the HSE would resolve this problem.


The AAA and their ilk are nothing more than opportunists with a buzz-word in "austerity" as if it's to blame for everything. It just means not spending out of control - they're the ones who point to the spending in the recession as if it were a problem and then blame "austerity" for the current problems. The whole thing only makes sense to people too uneducated to understand what they're buying into.

Its not perfect here, I don't have any alliance with the get up off your arse and better yourself mentality its far more complicated than that, however I dislike the victim mentality of the AAA and I wouldn't vote for them and don't agree with their policies.

News talk are having to advertising for hospital stories a sure sign that things are improving.

I not the OP didn't pay their water bill, every Europe country has water charges, Ireland should be no different.

JustTheOne

Austerity= living within your means.

20 billion a year on social welfare.

That's One third of our expenditure.

1 in 2 claiming disability.

2 million medical cards.

Yes the government are evil and only care about the rich.

The entitlement attitude in this country makes my blood boil.

I mostly feel sorry for people who bought shoe boxes in the boom and are working trying to pay it off while stuck with them while others get rent allowance and a nice 3 bed and contribute nothing back to society.

JustTheOne

JustTheOne wrote: »

Austerity= living within your means.

20 billion a year on social welfare.

That's One third of our expenditure.

1 in 2 claiming disability.

2 million medical cards.

Yes the government are evil and only care about the rich.

The entitlement attitude in this country makes my blood boil.

Do you have any statistic's for the 1 in 2 calming disability is it long term or short term.

This is from the department own web site.

"The crucial importance of the welfare system is reflected in these figures. The Department of Social Protection plays a role in virtually everyone's life at some stage, whether it is through Child Benefit, Jobseeker's payments, pensions or any of the many other income supports we provide


I have a strong dislike for those who try and frame all welfare as a dole for the long term unemployed, the above doesn't even mention family income supplement.

Skylinehead

JustTheOne wrote: »

1 in 2 claiming disability.

Typo? Surely not true.

BoJack Horseman

Skylinehead wrote: »

Typo? Surely not true.

Other way around I think.

Around 330k claim JSA/JSB while around 160k claim Illness/disability

Potatoeman

ireland.man wrote: »

An elderly man spending five days on a trolley in a hospital isn't guilty of "not giving everything he's got" to make it in our society. Leave that kind of talk for personal trainers in gyms.

There's plenty of victims of the economic system in Ireland and I don't think you're putting forth any coherent political opinion here, more of a visceral reaction to anti-cuts groups and the people who might support them.

How many people were in beds that could have been in an outcare facility? I spent 18 hours in ER with my girlfriend only to find out some elderly lady was refusing to leave and occupying a bed unessarily. Not to mention that half of the people in ER could have gone to a GP.

Here's disability figures from David McWilliams: http://www.davidmcwilliams.ie/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/Screen-Shot-2013-04-04-at-09.58.44.png

mariaalice

mariaalice wrote: »

Its not perfect here, I don't have any alliance with the get up off your arse and better yourself mentality its far more complicated than that, however I dislike the victim mentality of the AAA and I wouldn't vote for them and don't agree with their policies.

News talk are having to advertising for hospital stories a sure sign that things are improving.

I not the OP didn't pay their water bill, every Europe country has water charges, Ireland should be no different.

shocking bad editing!! reads like a script by Man Friday!

rusty cole

rusty cole wrote: »

shocking bad editing!! reads like a script by Man Friday!

Its my stream of conscious way of communication

mariaalice

mariaalice wrote: »

Its my stream of conscious way of communication

swap two coconuts for sea shells???

ireland.man

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

But there is also little to no evidence to support the proposition that:

1) This is causative of "austerity" (especially considering this was occurring prior to same);
2) Pumping more money into the HSE would resolve this problem.

I didn't make either of those propositions. I simply said that the idea that "There's opportunity and wealth there for anyone who stands up and gives it everything they've got...." is a bit trite.

johnnyskeleton

rusty cole wrote: »

shocking bad editing!! reads like a script by Man Friday!

rusty cole wrote: »

swap two coconuts for sea shells???

Mod Note:

If you don't have anything valid to contribute, please don't post on this thread at all. Consider this a warning.

Equally, other posters shouldn't rise to the bait.

Quin_Dub

I think my primary issue with a number of the opposition parties is their constant focus on the negative..

I totally get that they are in opposition and need to highlight the areas where they believe they have an opportunity to "score a point" on the Government , but this utter refusal to give any credit for anything positive actually damages their credibility in my view.

I'd be far more likely to listen to someone who put forward a view that said something like :-

"The government have done A, B & C quite well but they have failed to deliver I,J & K and X,Y & Z are things that they have made worse - Our policies in this areas would be Blah blah blah"

For me that would be a more honest view of things, but all we hear are emotive sound-bites about how terrible everything is...


I struggle to get past the "protest" viewpoint with a lot of the parties...

Tell me what's good , what you'd do better , what you'd change..

Stop telling me how terrible you think the other guy is , Tell me how good you are (or could be) for a change....

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Quin_Dub

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Completely agree - Plenty to improve on , plenty to criticise, but the total lack of objectivity in the opposition pronouncements makes it hard for me to listen to the potentially interesting things they might have to say...

In terms of Labour - It must be hard to be a Labour TD right now - They did everything in their power to protect their typical voters , however they have been utterly villiified.

johnnyskeleton

Quin_Dub wrote: »

Completely agree - Plenty to improve on , plenty to criticise, but the total lack of objectivity in the opposition pronouncements makes it hard for me to listen to the potentially interesting things they might have to say...

In terms of Labour - It must be hard to be a Labour TD right now - They did everything in their power to protect their typical voters , however they have been utterly villiified.

The lesson no small political party wants to learn is that going in as junior coalition partner means you get none of the credit and all of the criticism. Yet ime and time again we see small parties, sick of sitting on the sidelines, going in with a bigger party and then being decimated.

Its pure speculation on my part, but if Labour had stayed out of government and made FG go in with independents or as a minority govt with FF support, they would be topping the polls now and would have a real prospect of being the main party in 2016. They couldve taken all the brownie points for water charges etc.

FreudianSlippers

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

The lesson no small political party wants to learn is that going in as junior coalition partner means you get none of the credit and all of the criticism. Yet ime and time again we see small parties, sick of sitting on the sidelines, going in with a bigger party and then being decimated.

Its pure speculation on my part, but if Labour had stayed out of government and made FG go in with independents or as a minority govt with FF support, they would be topping the polls now and would have a real prospect of being the main party in 2016. They couldve taken all the brownie points for water charges etc.

I obviously don't have a crystal ball or else I'd be playing the Euromillions right now, but I don't feel as though FG/FF would have fumbled into and through the water charges mess so badly. IMO Labour was a major player in the mismanagement and screw-up that was the introduction of water charges by this government.

Godge

Quin_Dub wrote: »

Completely agree - Plenty to improve on , plenty to criticise, but the total lack of objectivity in the opposition pronouncements makes it hard for me to listen to the potentially interesting things they might have to say...

In terms of Labour - It must be hard to be a Labour TD right now - They did everything in their power to protect their typical voters , however they have been utterly villiified.

Labour misjudged badly.

The big swing in the election to them last time out came from public servants who used to vote FF. Labour imposed further pay cuts, increased working hours and reduced annual and sick leave. Public servants deserted them.

Labour did protect those on social welfare payments such as UA, UB and disability. However, contrary to most people's beliefs (including Labour's) that group either didn't vote or voted for fringe parties and independents last time out.

Labour also got votes from those former Greens who favour investment in public transport and the like. The cancellation of DART underground will be the final nail in the coffin for those voters.

The most important thing for any small party going into a coalition on the back of an increase in votes is not who is your core vote but who swung to your side in the most recent election. If you don't look after the latter group, you will pay the price. That is what has happened Labour.

joe_six_cans

Quin_Dub wrote: »

Completely agree - Plenty to improve on , plenty to criticise, but the total lack of objectivity in the opposition pronouncements makes it hard for me to listen to the potentially interesting things they might have to say...

In terms of Labour - It must be hard to be a Labour TD right now - They did everything in their power to protect their typical voters , however they have been utterly villiified.

looked at objectively , labours base should be even happier with their party than FG voters , public servants were well protected and cuts to wellfare was limited , i guess labour voters are a fickle bunch which doesnt surprise me

joe_six_cans

Quin_Dub wrote: »

Completely agree - Plenty to improve on , plenty to criticise, but the total lack of objectivity in the opposition pronouncements makes it hard for me to listen to the potentially interesting things they might have to say...

In terms of Labour - It must be hard to be a Labour TD right now - They did everything in their power to protect their typical voters , however they have been utterly villiified.

looked at objectively , labours base should be even happier with their party than FG voters , public servants were well protected and cuts to wellfare was limited ,add to that the changes in abortion law and the marriage equality referendum , they have delivered a great deal , i guess labour voters are a fickle bunch which doesnt surprise me

Hotblack Desiato

This 'public sector were protected' narrative is nonsense. Pay cuts of up to 30%, increased unpaid hours, hiring freeze/voluntary redundancies/retirements increasing workload on those left, daily vilification in the media and in here

But still we are told 'public sector pay wasn't cut' :rolleyes:

Enda says that a marginal rate of taxes & levies of 51% is too high, and he's probably right.

The marginal rate of taxes & levies for a pre-1995 public servant on more than 33k is 62%.

For post-95 hires the marginal deduction rate is even higher (although their gross is slightly higher also.)

For Reals

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Getting a little tired of the moaning and whinging, the Anti Cuts alliance would not exist without people feeling like victims.
I feel people in this bubble need to move away from feeling downtrodden and face up to the fact were the 11th Richest county on the planet.
There's opportunity and wealth there for anyone who stands up and gives it everything they've got.

If they keep following the alliances there never going to better themselves and get stuck playing the hard done by card.

We hear they never benefited from the boom, well I'm sorry mate, that's your fault, get up off your ass and make something of your life.

I haven't paid my water bill as a fundamental human right we should be all entitled to clean fresh drinking and bathing water. I agree with the alliances on that.

It's really getting my goat though the same people trolling on Facebook and social media saying we should look after our own first and not take refugees, these very people have more supports and opportunities than most people in the world could ever wish for to better their lot.

You can't tell them that or you'll become the devil, how do we get the supposidly victimised to cop on and use the services and resources their being offered to stop sitting round bitching wearing pajamas in the daytime to sort their house out and follow the rest of us to a better life or is there just no hope for them as they have politicians who only exist if they remain in the poverty trap and support them?

I think Irish water should be taken from our taxes as part of an overall charge and stop empowering people who feed off the misery of others, only then can we move forward.

Do you think the government should sort out this water mess to take the power off the people who's only hope of being re-elected is keeling people feeling like victims and end there place in political history?

You are either buying into, subconsciously or purposely peddling the Right wing conservative spin that everybody is on the make and out for themselves, so we shouldn't make waves and stick with the good 'ol boys.

Every politician wants to push their agenda. Every politician has people who support their agenda.
Fianna Fail, (an obvious example of going with the usual butchering the nation) have a tainted past but there are people who support them genuinely believing they are the best option for Ireland. Who are we to question this? There would be some supporting them for the contracts they might get from the local or national lad they host fundraisers for, but these 'people' exist in society.
To question the legitimacy of any or every anti-austerity person under your posted suspicions, is thinly veiled 'reds under the bed' mantra at best.
Politicians take advantage of situations to further their agenda. It's the nature of being a politician.
Are some in it for power and money? Yes. Are some in it because to want to make a positive change in Irish society? I hope so.

The most ironic point about your post is probably the header;
"Anti Austerity Alliance - Keeping people in Poverty Trap" The essence of all left wing parties is equality. The argument against the right is the right perpetrates inequality, by the fact working poor are required to keep that system afloat. It's designed to keep the status quo with only the wall paper changing from FF to FG.
So you coming on here with this baloney is, as I first stated, either buying into, subconsciously or peddling Right wing conservative spin. Our current set up requires victims to function. Your subtext that we should ignore any people spouting on about change which endeavours, on the face of it, to tackle this, because it will pretty much do what is already a fact thanks to FF/FG, collapses in on itself.

We should all pick ourselves up by our boot straps and just get over it? Just in time for the next recession? Ask me arse would ya?

BoJack Horseman

For Reals wrote: »

Ask me arse would ya?

It's a long and poorly written way of confirming that the far-left do indeed offer absolutely nothing.

This place is the perfect platform for supporters of the far-left to set out their stall.

It's very telling that this never ever actually happens.

The rare times actual policy is mentioned, its by opponents.

Stheno

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Great post agree 100%

Lack of reform of the public sector and in particular the HSE is maddening to me.

joe_six_cans

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

This 'public sector were protected' narrative is nonsense. Pay cuts of up to 30%, increased unpaid hours, hiring freeze/voluntary redundancies/retirements increasing workload on those left, daily vilification in the media and in here

But still we are told 'public sector pay wasn't cut' :rolleyes:

Enda says that a marginal rate of taxes & levies of 51% is too high, and he's probably right.

The marginal rate of taxes & levies for a pre-1995 public servant on more than 33k is 62%.

For post-95 hires the marginal deduction rate is even higher (although their gross is slightly higher also.)

very few public servants have seen close to 30% in cuts , most haven not seen cuts of half that when you take into account increments

BaronVon

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

This 'public sector were protected' narrative is nonsense. Pay cuts of up to 30%, increased unpaid hours, hiring freeze/voluntary redundancies/retirements increasing workload on those left, daily vilification in the media and in here

But still we are told 'public sector pay wasn't cut' :rolleyes:

Enda says that a marginal rate of taxes & levies of 51% is too high, and he's probably right.

The marginal rate of taxes & levies for a pre-1995 public servant on more than 33k is 62%.

For post-95 hires the marginal deduction rate is even higher (although their gross is slightly higher also.)

Public Sector pay was not protected, but I think it was a golden opportunity to overhaul the PS and bring in much needed change and improvement, but nothing has changed. Not in my section anyway. I just get paid less for doing more!

For Reals

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

It's a long and poorly written way of confirming that the far-left do indeed offer absolutely nothing.

This place is the perfect platform for supporters of the far-left to set out their stall.

It's very telling that this never ever actually happens.

The rare times actual policy is mentioned, its by opponents.

Nonsense. And where am I even eluding to setting out policies and in response to what policies from the post I'm responding to?
Your post has no substance to it.

BoJack Horseman

For Reals wrote: »

where am I even eluding to setting out policies

As I said.... No where & the 'antis' never really dare to either.

On that blue-moon event when policy creeps forth, the reality that the antis' have less than nothing to offer Irish people becomes apparent.

K-9

Mod:
Bojack and ForReals, cut it out please or take it to pm.

BoJack Horseman

K-9 wrote: »

Mod:
Bojack and ForReals, cut it out please or take it to pm.

Cut what out?

What did I say that was innacurate or contrary to charter?

I'd just like to see a case for the AAA....
30+ posts in & its yet to be attempted.
When a point/thread is created, there is usually a rebuttal.... except when it's about our far-left.

I welcome & await the line in the forum charter highlighting that stating this is a no-no.

Hotblack Desiato

joe_six_cans wrote: »

very few public servants have seen close to 30% in cuts , most haven not seen cuts of half that when you take into account increments

Why are you assuming everyone gets increments? Teachers have something like 20+ increments (very little opportunity for promotion though) so many of them will be, a lot of other grades only have a few so after maybe 5-6 years in the job you are earning as much as you ever will, no matter how good you are at your job.

The levies and cuts affect pay increments or not, it's still a pay cut, and incremental pay scales are not exclusive to the public sector

infacteh wrote: »

Public Sector pay was not protected, but I think it was a golden opportunity to overhaul the PS and bring in much needed change and improvement, but nothing has changed. Not in my section anyway. I just get paid less for doing more!

Sure but politically it's easier to just cut numbers rather than tackle the problem areas, HSE being the worst and the most costly, but that's the fault of politicians and senior management, not everyone else who works there.

For Reals

It's all hype alright, we're doing great and damn those never elected to government anti austerity begrudgers for this....right?

'Homeless Families up 76% since January'
http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0920/729079-homelessness/

Open your eyes or at least accept that a vast section of society didn't make money in the Celtic tiger and it wasn't down to bad luck, rather design (I feel like I'm stating the obvious but based on the op, sadly no).

We are doomed to continually repeat this economic shame of boom for some and bust for all (except a few in the know) unless we rid ourselves of FG/FF.

Seth Brundle

For Reals wrote: »

We are doomed to continually repeat this economic shame of boom for some and bust for all (except a few in the know) unless we rid ourselves of FG/FF.

...and replace it with what alternative?
One that will bankrupt the country completely and drive all foreign investment away?
Whilst we could do so much better than FF or FG, these alternatives currently don't exist.
SF and the other left parties would stifle any economic growth and drive up unemployment.
Let's not pretend that the anti-austerity economic pirates could steer the country away from economic annihilation.

Hotblack Desiato

You do have to ask questions when 2+ million people are on medical cards, and 1+ million are on free travel passes. There is a huge number of people in this country who simply are not interested in earning a living, and the politicians appease them at every opportunity.

For Reals

For Reals wrote: »

We are doomed to continually repeat this economic shame of boom for some and bust for all (except a few in the know) unless we rid ourselves of FG/FF.

Give us an idea of what the country will be like if this did indeed happen.

For Reals

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Give us an idea of what the country will be like if this did indeed happen.

kbannon wrote: »

...and replace it with what alternative?
One that will bankrupt the country completely and drive all foreign investment away?
Whilst we could do so much better than FF or FG, these alternatives currently don't exist.
SF and the other left parties would stifle any economic growth and drive up unemployment.
Let's not pretend that the anti-austerity economic pirates could steer the country away from economic annihilation.

Why is the only option bankrupting the country? We've had that with the current 'safe bets'.
I remember FF people on here saying a vote for Labour would bring the IMF to our door, and what happened after people stuck with FF?
As regards FG, similar to FF they are involved in cronyism and underhanded policy application. They are not transparent and we have a lot neededing to be clarified. FG where supposed to be the clean slate this time. We got more of the same, mark the date for the next recession in your calander.

The economy; it has improved immensely....so what? We have to realise the books being on the up and the quality of life for people differ greatly and only have as much in common with each other as the government of the day wills.
And chasing away business? By taxing them?

Don't do yourselves the diservice of beleaving the spin that the only alternative constitutes some Dickensian/Stalinist set up or free money for nothing. That's ridiculous.
And I read people railing about sections of society like some lads on the dole destroyed the economy.
Funnier still are the posters cribbing about all the luxuries the unemployed get and the life of Riley we all have thanks to left wing parties and groups who NEVER sat in government. What a joke.

An alternative? A fair transparent government who don't dodge questions.
An end to jobs and contracts for the good ol' boys.
A slow burn set of cut backs and tax increases. No slash and burn affecting the poorest in society the most.
No bull****ting the public with quangos like Irish Water to cook the books for Europe or to sneak in a tax rather than saving us all a fortune by just raising taxes as needed and explaining that need.
These were some of the things Kenny promised which is why I voted Fine Gael, like a sucker.

In closing: people fear change because if we don't go with FF/FG we'll destroy the economy?
Well sticking with FF/FG we destroyed the economy, immigration is still on the rise as is homelessness and child poverty. Well done lads, vote vote vote for DeValera.....

Seth Brundle

(Bear with me as I'm responding via my phone).

Firstly, the promises made by the left wing groups make the assumption that the money will be easily available through both so called rich taxes (which won't bring in that much) and also from additional borrowings. This is not sustainable.

I did say how there could easily be better alternatives than FG and FF. We just haven't got them. None are better than the crap that is FF or FG.

I've attended enough business meetings, lunches and functions to know the opinions of many employers including large ones.
Regarding the tax issue, this is a very big issue. Don't kid yourself that the foreign companies are here for the workforce. We have stiff competition in Eastern Europe and India. Many of these companies will move were the tax rates to go up because the infrastructure exists elsewhere for them.

In terms of jobs for the boys, do you really believe that this won't exist under any other form of government? Really?

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

For Reals

kbannon wrote: »

(Bear with me as I'm responding via my phone).

Firstly, the promises made by the left wing groups make the assumption that the money will be easily available through both so called rich taxes (which won't bring in that much) and also from additional borrowings. This is not sustainable.

I did say how there could easily be better alternatives than FG and FF. We just haven't got them. None are better than the crap that is FF or FG.
........

In terms of jobs for the boys, do you really believe that this won't exist under any other form of government? Really?

Refreshing to get a response not trying to win points or screaming 'won't somebody think of the children?!?'

All I can say is it's 100% jobs for the boys every time with FF/FG, we keep expecting these bottom feeders to change for some reason, or worse, not bothered by the cronyism as it's 'par for the course, sure what can you do?' mentality.
I believe any new team would at least be slower in setting up shop for 'their own'. FF/FG have a whole system in place. The connected in FF will be rubbing their greasy hands together in the wings should they get back in.
I give benefit of the doubt for any new blood and even if proven to be as bad as FF/FG in that regard at least the country may have time to take a breath for a period.

As for the promises made by left wing groups, they haven't the experience of being in government, granted, but considering the atomic bomb left by FF and being dragged over the coals by FG, I'll risk change thank you very much. I mean it's actually not even possible for the next government to create such a disaster without years of intentional abuse.

Wanting a decent, honourable transparent government may be naive, but bringing in the same sneaks (FG) or gangsters (FF) and expecting a fair deal for most of us, is equally if not more naive.

Seth Brundle

I guess to prove me wrong, is anyone aware of a public advert of employment for a position within either SF or the socialist party?
They employ people. They pay them. How did they recruit them?

For Reals

kbannon wrote: »

I guess to prove me wrong, is anyone aware of a public advert of employment for a position within either SF or the socialist party?
They employ people. They pay them. How did they recruit them?

I know the main parties advertise on their websites and preference goes to party affiliates, which would make sense considering it's positions based on pushing a certain ideology. It's the supposed impartial and/or tax payer financed positions we need look at.
Putting your girlfriend or driver on state funded boards like, which FF/FG are at, we know for a fact.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote:

Give us an idea of what the country will be like if this did indeed happen.

For Reals wrote: »

..
An alternative? A fair transparent government who don't dodge questions.
An end to jobs and contracts for the good ol' boys.

Sounds glorious. However none of the parties of the left ever answer any of the questions regarding their policies and their knock on effects. Their basic economic literacy is in question, and they refuse to step up to defend it.
What makes you think that parties that refuse to defend their policies out of government, would be a bastion of transparency in government?

For Reals wrote: »

..
A slow burn set of cut backs and tax increases. No slash and burn affecting the poorest in society the most.

Which party is promising this? Please read my previous point regarding the defense of policies and costings and bear that in mind.

For Reals wrote: »

..
No bull****ting the public with quangos like Irish Water to cook the books for Europe or to sneak in a tax rather than saving us all a fortune by just raising taxes as needed and explaining that need.

The Irish Water thread has plenty of explanation regarding its merits. I'd rather not get into that here. But I would like to point out quite simply that you using 'cooking the books' quite literally means 'save the taxpayer money' by moving Irish Water off balance sheet. Why is 'saving the taxpayer money' a negative? Again, is this an economic literacy issue?
--
Are there any other positives (not non-negatives) that you can give us about voting outside of the 'establishment'? Given that the thread is about the Anti-Austerity-Alliance, what would they bring to Ireland? What would be the benefits of electing their representatives?

Permabear

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Godge

Permabear wrote: »

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They are worse than that.

http://www.thejournal.ie/sinn-fein-minister-found-guilty-of-religious-discrimination-495007-Jun2012/


"The Fair Employment Tribunal has said that Alan Lennon was overlooked for appointment of chairman at Northern Ireland Water by Newry/Armagh MP Conor Murphy because he was Protestant."


This sentence is ironic on so many levels when talking about SF policies in the South.

K-9

Thread isn't about SF though so anything about AAA?

Permabear

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