Irish Players outside the Provinces 15/16

Hagz

AVIVA PREMIERSHIP

Name|Position|Club

Tom Court|Prop|London Irish
Paddy McAllister|Prop|Gloucester
Niall Annett|Hooker|Worcester Warriors
Donncha O'Callaghan|Lock|Worcester Warriors
Darren O'Shea|Lock|Worcester Warriors
Jerry Sexton|Lock|Exeter Chiefs
Eoin Sheriff|Lock|London Irish
Conor Gilsenan|Flanker|London Irish
Peter Stringer|Scrum-Half|Sale Sharks
Gareth Steenson|Fly-Half|Exeter Chiefs
JJ Hanrahan|Fly-Half |Northampton Saints
Ian Whitten|Centre | Exeter Chiefs
Eoin Griffin|Centre|London Irish
James Downey|Centre|Wasps
Brendan Macken|Centre|Wasps
Niall Morris|Fullback|Leicester Tigers

TOP 14

Name|Position|Club

Dave Ryan|Prop|Agen
Denis Coulson|Prop|Grenoble
Paul O'Connell|Lock|Toulon
Paddy Butler|Back row|Pau
James Coughlan|Back row|Pau
Sean Dougall|Back row|Pau
James Hart|Scrum-half|Grenoble
Chris Farrell|Centre|Grenoble
Eamonn Sheridan|Centre|Oyonnax

PRO 12
Name|Position|Club

John Andress|Prop|Edinburgh
Michael Allen|Centre|Edinburgh

SUPER RUGBY

Name|Position|Club

Ed O'Donoghue|Lock|Queensland Reds

RFU CHAMPIONSHIP

Name|Position|Club

Jack O'Connell|Prop|Bristol
Sean McCarthy|Prop|Jersey
Conor Carey|Prop|Nottingham
Tyrone Moran|Hooker|London Scottish
Mark Flanagan|Lock|Bedford Blues
Charlie Butterworth|Flanker|Jersey
Ali Birch|Flanker|Rotherham
Will Ryan|Back row|Rotherham
Michael Noone|Number 8|Jersey
Michael Heaney|Scrum-half|Doncaster
Declan Cusack|Fly-half|Doncaster
James McKinney|Fly-Half|Rotherham
Danny Barnes|Centre|Ealing
Darren Hudson|Wing|Bristol
Mark McCrea|Wing|Jersey
Ross Adair|Wing|Jersey
Michael Keating|Wing|Rotherham
Sam Coghlan Murray|Wing|Nottingham
Sean Scanlon|Fullback|Rotherham
David McIlwaine|Fullback|Yorkshire Carnegie
Peter Lydon|Fullback|London Scottish
Ricky Andrew|Fullback|Nottingham

Lovely tables.

irishbucsfan

Where's Ryan Caldwell?

EDIT: also seems Michael Noone is missing, he's at Jersey

Podge_irl

Someone was bored in work.

Hagz

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Where's Ryan Caldwell?

EDIT: also seems Michael Noone is missing, he's at Jersey

It says on his twitter profile that he's playing for Exeter but he's not on their site and he's not listed on in the current squad on wikipedia.

@mods

Dave Ryan at Agen still gives me the giggles.

Also, @mods, any thought to locking this one up in a bit and starting a fresh one with Hagz's lovely tables in the OP as a 'season tracker' type of thread?

Once we're happy we've got a full and comprehensive set of lovely tables that is.

Anyone from this post gone walkabouts?
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=93564134&postcount=37

irishbucsfan

Hagz wrote: »

It says on his twitter profile that he's playing for Exeter but he's not on their site and he's not listed on in the current squad on wikipedia.

Yeah, I was more wondering where he is, is he playing anywhere does anyone know?

postitnote

John Andress at Edinburgh

Zzippy

Emmet pictured this afternoon...









:pac:

awec

New thread created for this season.

The Lost Sheep

There is also quite a few irish playing the third tier of English rugby.
Alex o Meara, an exile is with Hartpury College who have connections with Gloucester
Cronan Gleeson, from Nenagh and a former Irish Youth, Munster 19s/20s is playing with Bury St Edmunds
Declan Cusack, Eoghan Grace are with Plymouth who were relegated from the championship at the end of last season

Probably is a few more...

oneofakind32

Looking at this list, would people agree that Ireland has the players and talent to supports a 5th professional outfit? Even though it's just not commercially viable right now.

Hagz

James Sandford has retired.
Eoghan Grace and Declan Cusack are playing for Plymouth Albion in the National League One.
Tom Sexton is playing for the NSW Country Eagles in the NRC.

connachta

Hagz wrote: »

AVIVA PREMIERSHIP

Name|Position|Club

Tom Court|Prop|London Irish
Paddy McAllister|Prop|Gloucester
Niall Annett|Hooker|Worcester Warriors
Donncha O'Callaghan|Lock|Worcester Warriors
Darren O'Shea|Lock|Worcester Warriors
Jerry Sexton|Lock|Exeter Chiefs
Eoin Sheriff|Lock|London Irish
Conor Gilsenan|Flanker|London Irish
Peter Stringer|Scrum-Half|Sale Sharks
Gareth Steenson|Fly-Half|Exeter Chiefs
JJ Hanrahan|Fly-Half |Northampton Saints
Ian Whitten|Centre | Exeter Chiefs
Eoin Griffin|Centre|London Irish
James Downey|Centre|Wasps
Brendan Macken|Centre|Wasps
Niall Morris|Fullback|Leicester Tigers
TOP 14

Name|Position|Club

Dave Ryan|Prop|Agen
Denis Coulson|Prop|Grenoble
Paul O'Connell|Lock|Toulon
Paddy Butler|Back row|Pau
James Coughlan|Back row|Pau
Sean Dougall|Back row|Pau
James Hart|Scrum-half|Grenoble
Chris Farrell|Centre|Grenoble
Eamonn Sheridan|Centre|Oyonnax

PRO 12
Name|Position|Club

John Andress|Prop|Edinburgh
Michael Allen|Centre|Edinburgh

SUPER RUGBY

Name|Position|Club

Ed O'Donoghue|Lock|Queensland Reds

RFU CHAMPIONSHIP

Name|Position|Club

Jack O'Connell|Prop|Bristol
Sean McCarthy|Prop|Jersey
Conor Carey|Prop|Nottingham
Tyrone Moran|Hooker|London Scottish
Mark Flanagan|Lock|Bedford Blues
Charlie Butterworth|Flanker|Jersey
Ali Birch|Flanker|Rotherham
Will Ryan|Back row|Rotherham
Michael Noone|Number 8|Jersey
Michael Heaney|Scrum-half|Doncaster
Declan Cusack|Fly-half|Doncaster
James McKinney|Fly-Half|Rotherham
Danny Barnes|Centre|Ealing
Darren Hudson|Wing|Bristol
Mark McCrea|Wing|Jersey
Ross Adair|Wing|Jersey
Michael Keating|Wing|Rotherham
Sam Coghlan Murray|Wing|Nottingham
Sean Scanlon|Fullback|Rotherham
David McIlwaine|Fullback|Yorkshire Carnegie
Peter Lydon|Fullback|London Scottish
Ricky Andrew|Fullback|Nottingham

Prod2 (to add in the front post)

Conor Gaston (Wing, Aurillac)
Denis Fogarty (Hooker, Parc, Aix-en-Provence)
Dylan Donnellan (hooker, Biarritz)
Dave Nolan (lock, Bourgoin)
in theory, Luke O'Dea, (Wing, Lille, but promotion refused to the club)

total former

oneofakind32 wrote: »

Looking at this list, would people agree that Ireland has the players and talent to supports a 5th professional outfit? Even though it's just not commercially viable right now.

I don't think so tbh. Most of these guys aren't up to Pro12 standard.

awec

The only interesting thing for me is how few Irish players stay in the pro12 when they leave a province.

total former

Also Ian McKinley is playing for Viadana

connachta

total former wrote: »

I don't think so tbh. Most of these guys aren't up to Pro12 standard.

Oh, really, because I've fun to pick the best 23 IMO, and that's a hell of a team, better than the Wofhounds in the past few years

John Andress|Prop|Edinburgh
Niall Annett|Hooker|Worcester Warriors
Paddy McAllister|Prop|Gloucester
Darren O'Shea|Lock|Worcester Warriors
Eoin Sheriff|Lock|London Irish
Conor Gilsenan|Flanker|London Irish
Paddy Butler|Back row|Pau
James Coughlan|Back row|Pau
James Hart|Scrum-half|Grenoble
Gareth Steenson|Fly-Half|Exeter Chiefs
Michael Allen|Wing|Edinburgh
Brendan Macken|Centre|Wasps
James Downey|Centre|Wasps
Ian Whitten|Wing| Exeter Chiefs
Niall Morris|Fullback|Leicester Tigers

subs

Dave Ryan|Prop|Agen
Denis Fogarty Hooker Provence Rugby
Denis Coulson|Prop|Grenoble OR
Tom Court (London Irish)
Ed O'Donoghue|Lock|Queensland Reds
Sean Dougall|Back row|Pau
Peter Stringer|Scrum-Half|Sale Sharks
JJ Hanrahan|Fly-Half |Northampton Saints
Chris Farrell Grenoble, OR Sheridan (Oyo), OR Griffin (London Irish) OR Darren Hudson|Bristol

total former

That team would be annihilated by the Wolfhounds.

connachta

total former wrote: »

That team would be annihilated by the Wolfhounds.

Haha, don't think so at all. They are all top quality players (except maybe Ryan on the bench)

connachta

By the Way, where's Fergus Mulchrone IQ centre from london Irish? Don't see him in your table

Hagz

connachta wrote: »

By the Way, where's Fergus Mulchrone IQ centre from london Irish? Don't see him in your table

Mulchrone is currently injured long term afaik. I was a bit selective I'll admit. I left out the likes of Eoghan Grace because they play in 3rd tier and I didn't wan't to make a 3rd tier table. I left out the likes of Michael Cromie of Rotherham because who the hell is Michael Cromie? And then the likes of George McGuigan and Fergus Mulchrone because I wasn't sure if they would even consider themselves Irish. In saying that, I've just read an article where Mulchrone expressed interest in playing for Ireland.

connachta

Hagz wrote: »

Mulchrone is currently injured long term afaik. I was a bit selective I'll admit. I left out the likes of Eoghan Grace because they play in 3rd tier and I didn't wan't to make a 3rd tier table. I left out the likes of Michael Cromie of Rotherham because who the hell is Michael Cromie? And then the likes of George McGuigan and Fergus Mulchrone because I wasn't sure if they would even consider themselves Irish. In saying that, I've just read an article where Mulchrone expressed interest in playing for Ireland.

Yeah McGuigan is a solid prospect too

And would you add the few Prod2 names i've written on page 1, please?

pickarooney

Alan Cotter is also at Provence Rugby (formerly PARC ) alongside Fogarty.

Buer

connachta wrote: »

Haha, don't think so at all. They are all top quality players (except maybe Ryan on the bench)

Are you on crack? None of them are top quality. Some of them would be playing above themselves by making the bench at those sides. All of them are playing abroad because they couldn't get a run at the provinces....ahead of the guys who are in the Wolfhounds team.

The Wolfhounds aren't made up of AIL players. They're guys who are on the fringe of the Irish side and most have caps already.

irishbucsfan

Maybe by Wolfhounds he meant the Irish Club team?

connachta

No, Wolfhounds, but I conceed the last team which lost against Saxons in Cork was a great team on the paper. I just put together Wolfhounds and Emerging, and was wrong. But still, the 23 "Irish abroad" I picked can beat emerging Ireland. That's what I meant, sorry

rrpc

connachta wrote: »

Oh, really, because I've fun to pick the best 23 IMO, and that's a hell of a team, better than the Wofhounds in the past few years

John Andress|Prop|Edinburgh
Niall Annett|Hooker|Worcester Warriors
Paddy McAllister|Prop|Gloucester
Darren O'Shea|Lock|Worcester Warriors
Eoin Sheriff|Lock|London Irish...

You had all the ingredients for a table there but just forgot to add the TABLE and /TABLE tags in square brackets at the beginning and end.

Like this:

||
John Andress|Prop|Edinburgh
Niall Annett|Hooker|Worcester Warriors
Paddy McAllister|Prop|Gloucester
Darren O'Shea|Lock|Worcester Warriors
Eoin Sheriff|Lock|London Irish

bilston

connachta wrote: »

Oh, really, because I've fun to pick the best 23 IMO, and that's a hell of a team, better than the Wofhounds in the past few years

John Andress|Prop|Edinburgh
Niall Annett|Hooker|Worcester Warriors
Paddy McAllister|Prop|Gloucester
Darren O'Shea|Lock|Worcester Warriors
Eoin Sheriff|Lock|London Irish
Conor Gilsenan|Flanker|London Irish
Paddy Butler|Back row|Pau
James Coughlan|Back row|Pau
James Hart|Scrum-half|Grenoble
Gareth Steenson|Fly-Half|Exeter Chiefs
Michael Allen|Wing|Edinburgh
Brendan Macken|Centre|Wasps
James Downey|Centre|Wasps
Ian Whitten|Wing| Exeter Chiefs
Niall Morris|Fullback|Leicester Tigers

subs

Dave Ryan|Prop|Agen
Denis Fogarty Hooker Provence Rugby
Denis Coulson|Prop|Grenoble OR
Tom Court (London Irish)
Ed O'Donoghue|Lock|Queensland Reds
Sean Dougall|Back row|Pau
Peter Stringer|Scrum-Half|Sale Sharks
JJ Hanrahan|Fly-Half |Northampton Saints
Chris Farrell Grenoble, OR Sheridan (Oyo), OR Griffin (London Irish) OR Darren Hudson|Bristol

I'd say that bloke O'Connell from Toulon might get a game in the second row.

irishbucsfan

Not a chance that team would beat the Emerging Ireland we sent abroad this year as far as I'm concerned. The Emerging Ireland team is better in most positions. Team in the final was:

Tiernan O'Halloran (Buccaneers/Connacht)
Andrew Conway (Garryowen/Munster)
Stuart McCloskey (Ballynahinch/Ulster)
Noel Reid (Clontarf/Leinster)
Matt Healy (Lansdowne/Connacht)
JJ Hanrahan (UL Bohemians/Munster)
Luke McGrath (UCD/Leinster)

James Cronin (Dolphin/Munster)
Rob Herring (Ballynahinch/Ulster)
Stephen Archer (Cork Constitution/Munster)
Ben Marshall (Old Belvedere/Connacht)
Billy Holland (Cork Constitution/Munster)
Eoghan Masterson (Corinthians/Connacht)
Dan Leavy (UCD/Leinster)
Jack Conan (Old Belvedere/Leinster)

That Emerging Ireland team is better in almost every position (maybe Niall Morris or Gareth Steenson would make the EI team)

English Lurker

awec wrote: »

The only interesting thing for me is how few Irish players stay in the pro12 when they leave a province.

Do you think that's more a reflection of most Pro 12 teams being driven to have a low number of foreigners, or there being more money outside the Pro 12?



Also, comparing the Emerging Ireland side with a possible Exiles side, and you can see a few cases where the guy in the EI side is the guy who forced the other guy to look elsewhere for gametime.

irishbucsfan

English Lurker wrote: »

Do you think that's more a reflection of most Pro 12 teams being driven to have a low number of foreigners, or there being more money outside the Pro 12?

Often it's just down to the stage the players are at when they move abroad and a reflection of the fact the provinces are mostly all at a similar level (ie, they'd be top half of the Premiership).

Generally a guy whose gone abroad is either a guy who hasn't made his provincial academy or more often is a guy who has come through an provincial academy but hasn't stood out enough at the age of 21-23 to be offered something more permanent. Sometimes they leave before completing the academy (Michael Keating for example). Players do move between provinces, it's just rare that a guy at that age is good enough to get game time at one province but not good enough to be kept at another. The guys who do go abroad aren't receiving offers from the provinces, I know one guy who received an offer from a premiership side one summer and turned it down in order to go to Connacht the following year (although that was a good few years ago at this stage).

Squidgy Black

connachta wrote: »

No, Wolfhounds, but I conceed the last team which lost against Saxons in Cork was a great team on the paper. I just put together Wolfhounds and Emerging, and was wrong. But still, the 23 "Irish abroad" I picked can beat emerging Ireland. That's what I meant, sorry

Not a hope, you do realise that you're saying a 23 man squad of players that consists mainly of players who weren't good enough to hold down a spot with a province, be that academy or senior squad, would beat a team of some of Ireland's up and coming players, a lot of who are close to the fringe of the Irish squad and are getting a good bit of game time with the provinces.

connachta

_Tyrrell_ wrote: »

Not a hope, you do realise that you're saying a 23 man squad of players that consists mainly of players who weren't good enough to hold down a spot with a province, be that academy or senior squad, would beat a team of some of Ireland's up and coming players, a lot of who are close to the fringe of the Irish squad and are getting a good bit of game time with the provinces.

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Not a chance that team would beat the Emerging Ireland we sent abroad this year as far as I'm concerned. The Emerging Ireland team is better in most positions. Team in the final was:

Tiernan O'Halloran (Buccaneers/Connacht)
Andrew Conway (Garryowen/Munster)
Stuart McCloskey (Ballynahinch/Ulster)
Noel Reid (Clontarf/Leinster)
Matt Healy (Lansdowne/Connacht)
JJ Hanrahan (UL Bohemians/Munster)
Luke McGrath (UCD/Leinster)

James Cronin (Dolphin/Munster)
Rob Herring (Ballynahinch/Ulster)
Stephen Archer (Cork Constitution/Munster)
Ben Marshall (Old Belvedere/Connacht)
Billy Holland (Cork Constitution/Munster)
Eoghan Masterson (Corinthians/Connacht)
Dan Leavy (UCD/Leinster)
Jack Conan (Old Belvedere/Leinster)

That Emerging Ireland team is better in almost every position (maybe Niall Morris or Gareth Steenson would make the EI team)

That's where I can reasonably disagree

All head-to-heads of an Exiles vs Emerging would be very tight

John Andress is the starter of a rather dominant Edinburgh scrum, easily ahead of Archer. Tom Court ex-International, still can easily match Cronin

Annett was sacrificed by Ulster, might not be the right choice, apparently played a good part in Worcester accession to Premiership. He played for Baa-baas, and can hold the comparison against his ex-competitor Herring

Marshall/Holland isn't a strong pairing (even if exiles doesn't have POC, I didn't count him, Toulon is not a land of exile, but a land of post-retirement:D)

Butler and Gilsenan played greatly in any of their reduced appearences, Leavy and Masterson could be in trouble

Stringer on a one-match situation, + promising Hart match Boss+McGrath+Marmion

Same for Macken, Griffin vs Stuart McCloskey/Noel Reid and Allen+Whitten regular starters for their clubs vs Conway and Healy

I honnestly just see Conan ahead of Coughlan, and not by far on a one-game situation

And I'd love to attend this Exiles vs Emerging situation

Utah_Saint

does anyone know how James Hart is getting on?

Is he worth bringing back to these shores? If he was showing promise I'd snap him up at Ulster. Its a serious area of weakness for us.

jacothelad

connachta wrote: »

That's where I can reasonably disagree

All head-to-heads of an Exiles vs Emerging would be very tight

John Andress is the starter of a rather dominant Edinburgh scrum, easily ahead of Archer. Tom Court ex-International, still can easily match Cronin

Annett was sacrificed by Ulster, might not be the right choice, apparently played a good part in Worcester accession to Premiership. He played for Baa-baas, and can hold the comparison against his ex-competitor Herring

Marshall/Holland isn't a strong pairing (even if exiles doesn't have POC, I didn't count him, Toulon is not a land of exile, but a land of post-retirement:D)

Butler and Gilsenan played greatly in any of their reduced appearences, Leavy and Masterson could be in trouble

Stringer on a one-match situation, + promising Hart match Boss+McGrath+Marmion

Same for Macken, Griffin vs Stuart McCloskey/Noel Reid and Allen+Whitten regular starters for their clubs vs Conway and Healy

I honnestly just see Conan ahead of Coughlan, and not by far on a one-game situation

And I'd love to attend this Exiles vs Emerging situation

The behavioural reasons why Andress isn't at Ulster are pretty well documented. He was never as good as he thinks he is and last season he crumbled in many scrums when he played. He and Archer are probably on a par though.

Annett left entirely of his own accord. he could see where he was in the pecking order and choose to leave for 1st team action. While he is a fine hooker he isn't half the player that Herring is. No comparison at all I'm afraid.

As for Macken / Griffen v. McCloskey....only one winner there and it isn't either of Macken or Griffen.

rrpc

Utah_Saint wrote: »

does anyone know how James Hart is getting on?

Is he worth bringing back to these shores? If he was showing promise I'd snap him up at Ulster. Its a serious area of weakness for us.

He's started one game and subbed on in another of three so far. Seems to do all the kicking when he's on. Scored 10 points out of a possible 10 in the two matches, one of which was a defeat away to Clermont where he scored all six points for Grenoble.

I'm not sure he'd want to come back tbh. Grenoble are a big outfit and had a €20 million budget last season. He's a native French speaker and was brought in by Bernard Jacknman so there'd be a lot of loyalty there.

If he wasn't playing perhaps it would be a different story, but he's getting game time (possibly through injuries; I'm not sure) at the moment.

irishbucsfan

Most of those emerging Ireland guys are second choice.

Last season both Andress and Annett were 2nd choice for Edinburgh and Worcester respectively, don't think you're aware of that.

connachta

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Most of those emerging Ireland guys are second choice.

Last season both Andress and Annett were 2nd choice for Edinburgh and Worcester respectively, don't think you're aware of that.

Andress was co-first chioce, start 10 games, bench 10, I'm aware of that fact.
And Annett was 2nd choice only because of Augustin Creevy, international star from Argentina

connachta

jacothelad wrote: »

As for Macken / Griffen v. McCloskey....only one winner there and it isn't either of Macken or Griffen.

An opinion of an Ulster fan, we'll talk about it at the end of the season.

irishbucsfan

connachta wrote: »

Andress was co-first chioce, start 10 games, bench 10, I'm aware of that fact.
And Annett was 2nd choice only because of Augustin Creevy, international star from Argentina

:pac: What are you on about? WP Nel is first choice for Edinburgh without a shadow of a doubt. Andress is not close to his level and he's struggled to get game time at clubs for the past 4 or 5 years.

The majority of those guys are simply not at the same level as the guys at home and that's exactly why they're not still in Ireland for the most part, no province was interested.

connachta

irishbucsfan wrote: »

:pac: What are you on about? WP Nel is first choice for Edinburgh without a shadow of a doubt. Andress is not close to his level and he's struggled to get game time at clubs for the past 4 or 5 years.

The majority of those guys are simply not at the same level as the guys at home and that's exactly why they're not still in Ireland for the most part, no province was interested.

Here are the official facts

2014-2015 - Guinness PRO12
Andress
Edinburgh Rugby
played 9 +10
Nel
2014-2015 - Guinness PRO12
Edinburgh Rugby
13 +8

connachta

But I don't advocate for Andress,

Annett, Griffin, Macken, Butler, Steenson, are up to the Emerging level by far. So Exiles as a whole can build a correct team for a head-to-head.

connemara man

connachta wrote: »

An opinion of an Ulster fan, we'll talk about it at the end of the season.

McCloskey has future international written all over him! I feel bad for him that he's behind so many in Ulster when the Internationals are back. He'd start in Munster currently imo and in Connacht possibly Leinster

irishbucsfan

connachta wrote: »

Here are the official facts

2014-2015 - Guinness PRO12
Andress
Edinburgh Rugby
played 9 +10
Nel
2014-2015 - Guinness PRO12
Edinburgh Rugby
13 +8

Ian Madigan 2012-13 Pro 12 - 18 Starts +5 Sub Appearances

Jonny Sexton 2012-13 Pro 12 - 10 Starts

"Official Facts" mean nothing out of context. Madigan was not first choice and neither was Andress.

rrpc

connachta wrote: »

Here are the official facts

2014-2015 - Guinness PRO12
Andress
Edinburgh Rugby
played 9 +10
Nel
2014-2015 - Guinness PRO12
Edinburgh Rugby
13 +8

What those stats don't say is the calibre of game that each are starting in. Nel started in all European games and is now a capped international for Scotland.

connachta

connemara man wrote: »

McCloskey has future international written all over him! I feel bad for him that he's behind so many in Ulster when the Internationals are back. He'd start in Munster currently imo and in Connacht possibly Leinster

Not above Aki/Henshaw FFS! if by currently you meant during RWC ok maybe..

English Lurker

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Often it's just down to the stage the players are at when they move abroad and a reflection of the fact the provinces are mostly all at a similar level (ie, they'd be top half of the Premiership).

Generally a guy whose gone abroad is either a guy who hasn't made his provincial academy or more often is a guy who has come through an provincial academy but hasn't stood out enough at the age of 21-23 to be offered something more permanent. Sometimes they leave before completing the academy (Michael Keating for example). Players do move between provinces, it's just rare that a guy at that age is good enough to get game time at one province but not good enough to be kept at another. The guys who do go abroad aren't receiving offers from the provinces, I know one guy who received an offer from a premiership side one summer and turned it down in order to go to Connacht the following year (although that was a good few years ago at this stage).

Think you missed where I was going there - not why these guys are going abroad rather than staying in Ireland, but rather why are virtually none of these guys ending up in Scotland/Wales/Italy when they do go. And I know a lot of them leave at a standard where the rest of the Pro 12 wouldn't be interested - but some of them do, and a fair few of them rise to the standard in the Championship. Robin Copeland would be a good example of that, but as far as I now, he's the only one.

irishbucsfan

English Lurker wrote: »

Think you missed where I was going there - not why these guys are going abroad rather than staying in Ireland, but rather why are virtually none of these guys ending up in Scotland/Wales/Italy when they do go. And I know a lot of them leave at a standard where the rest of the Pro 12 wouldn't be interested - but some of them do, and a fair few of them rise to the standard in the Championship. Robin Copeland would be a good example of that, but as far as I now, he's the only one.

Well firstly the Pro 12 sides are pushed very hard by their unions to develop local talent. If they bring in foreign guys they usually only want starters (unlike in tier 2 in France/England).

The guys leaving Ireland are very rarely at a standard where they would be reliable Pro 12 starters. Tommy Seymour and Michael Allen caught on in Scotland but the Welsh sides would generally not be interested in guys not making the grade at the Irish provinces.

I think there's a financial element as well, there are better offers on the table from 2nd tier of the English or French system than from Pro 12 sides. In England/France they're making offers for starting players whereas for Pro 12 sides it'd be as squad cover. Sides like Dragons and the Italians can call up Premiership/Super10 guys temporarily if they get caught, which I'd imagine reduces their interest in paying Irish guys full time.

connemara man

connachta wrote: »

Not above Aki/Henshaw FFS! if by currently you meant during RWC ok maybe..

I personally think having McCloskey inside Henshaw would create the room for him to be at his best. He's a constant threat on the gainline.
That's nothing against Aki I just think he's a different type of 12 and the balance could be better with a McCloskey type inside him

connachta

Aki saved us by himself against 6-7 Dragons players, he's unmovable. Sad they had so little gametime together, because Akishaw is the best pairing in Ireland. Only position where Connacht can claim that tittle