BA fire in Las Vegas

eatmyshorts

smurfjed wrote: »

From the online photos, the fire damage appears to be at the wing and one side of the undercarriage, does this look like a fuel tank fire?

Possibly. Some of the ejected debris could've punctured the wing tank at the root.

volchitsa

Deleted User wrote: »

No I haven't had to do it, my friend has and he said it was grand after he reported the passport stolen to the police it was straight forward.

I however always keep my passport and wallet and phone on me when travelling through an airport and on the plane.

Anyway I've saidy piece and I still stand by every word of it.

Well done to the BA crew they did a fantastic job. Minor injuries only considering the extent of the fire.

I had my passport and money stolen while abroad, and while it was a curse, it really wasn't a major catastrophe, thanks to the consular staff who were great. We didn't need money urgently as we had our accommodation sorted already, but otoh we weren't the victims of some major incident like a plane fire - they'll have even less difficulty than we did, I'd imagine.

Definitely not worth risking causing injury or death just too keep one's iPhone 5 or whatever. Crazy.

vicwatson

cml387 wrote: »

Hearing the tape this morning, was one of the flight crew from Dublin perchance?

Bellewstown, Co.Meath, Co-Pilot Ian Callaghan, 27 yrs young, take a bow.

elastico

One thing about the guy with the bags is the fire seemed to be out by then, there were very few other passengers in the picture, nobody coming down the slide or cabin crew who I assume would be last off. Maybe he volunteered and helped the crew until the end, and as the fire was out by then collected his bags?

Frynge

elastico wrote: »

One thing about the guy with the bags is the fire seemed to be out by then, there were very few other passengers in the picture, nobody coming down the slide or cabin crew who I assume would be last off. Maybe he volunteered and helped the crew until the end, and as the fire was out by then collected his bags?

I highly doubt anyone other than the fire chief in command would be in a postion to declare the fire out, especially with people still on board.

vektarman

elastico wrote: »

One thing about the guy with the bags is the fire seemed to be out by then, there were very few other passengers in the picture, nobody coming down the slide or cabin crew who I assume would be last off. Maybe he volunteered and helped the crew until the end, and as the fire was out by then collected his bags?

I didn't notice that guy but the earlier criticism referred to the evacuated passengers that took their seemingly large hand luggage with them.

ProfessorPlum

You can see in the picture above the cockpit crew (with the high viz jackets A+ for them). They will be last off the aircraft. You can also see the smoke, and the aircraft is still being doused with water from the fire tenders. So, no, I don't think anyone has declared the fire to be out.
Stop making excuses for these fools.

I remember when I was in primary school being given out to after a fire drill because I had a pencil in my hand (I happened to be holding it when the alarm went off). Now that might be over reacting a little. But if 600 4 to 12 year olds can get it so right, why is it these mostly grown adults get it so wrong. There will always be the occasional passenger who goes into 'rabbit in the headlights' mode - these are the ones who will need to be helpfully shoved out the door, but some of the comments on this thread excusing the behaviour because the passengers might be with out their phones or passports show the real motive - selfishness.

elastico

I am not making excuses for anybody. Just pointing out that in each of those pictures the passengers are at the end of the line.

I saw an earlier video clip of people running from the plane. Too far to see if they had bags but didn't like the look they had.

eatmyshorts

elastico wrote: »

I am not making excuses for anybody. Just pointing out that in each of those pictures the passengers are at the end of the line.

I saw an earlier video clip of people running from the plane. Too far to see if they had bags but didn't like the look they had.

It doesn't matter if they're at the front or the end of the line. They are putting their own lives, the lives of fellow passengers and the lives of the crew in danger. The crew at the door has to wait until everyone is off before they can exit. And, as the Captain, I have to wait until all the pax and crew are off the aircraft so that I can do my final sweep of the whole length of the cabin to ensure everyone is off before I can finally exit.

There's no justification, no reasoning, no excuses for delaying an evacuation in order to take your worldly goods. It's idiotic, selfish, dangerous and downright inexcusable.
Unfortunately, this kind of behaviour is so prevalent among people today. It's all "me, me, me, me" with no thought or commonsense reasoning about how their actions affect others.


As Billy Conolly said..."..hangings too good for them people, what they need is a good kick in the arse."

christy c

Does anyone remember the Ryanair evacuation in Kerry during the bad snow a few years ago? The AAIU had a recommendation in the report that the FAA (I think) investigate methods of stopping people bringing their luggage with them. It was a problem then as well

billie1b

eatmyshorts wrote: »

It doesn't matter if they're at the front or the end of the line. They are putting their own lives, the lives of fellow passengers and the lives of the crew in danger. The crew at the door has to wait until everyone is off before they can exit. And, as the Captain, I have to wait until all the pax and crew are off the aircraft so that I can do my final sweep of the whole length of the cabin to ensure everyone is off before I can finally exit.

There's no justification, no reasoning, no excuses for delaying an evacuation in order to take your worldly goods. It's idiotic, selfish, dangerous and downright inexcusable.
Unfortunately, this kind of behaviour is so prevalent among people today. It's all "me, me, me, me" with no thought or commonsense reasoning about how their actions affect others.


As Billy Conolly said..."..hangings too good for them people, what they need is a good kick in the arse."

Ok as much as I agree with you and I hope if I ever was in that situation I would leave my bag behind hoping that the medication I need every few hours is available in wherever I may be but what excuse do you have for the crew, one of them is carrying a bag over his shoulder and the other has what appears to be a bag behind hos high-viz jacket. If its a rule of the evacuation to leave everything behind the skipper and f/o shouldn't have time to get high-viz jackets and bags, the only thing picked up should be the flight envelope and straight out the window or emergency exit

ProfessorPlum

billie1b wrote: »

Ok as much as I agree with you and I hope if I ever was in that situation I would leave my bag behind hoping that the medication I need every few hours is available in wherever I may be but what excuse do you have for the crew, one of them is carrying a bag over his shoulder and the other has what appears to be a bag behind hos high-viz jacket. If its a rule of the evacuation to leave everything behind the skipper and f/o shouldn't have time to get high-viz jackets and bags, the only thing picked up should be the flight envelope and straight out the window or emergency exit

The skipper and FO have to take their hi viz, the various documents and my crowd want you to take the megaphone as well - I don't know if that's standard.

eatmyshorts

billie1b wrote: »

. If its a rule of the evacuation to leave everything behind the skipper and f/o shouldn't have time to get high-viz jackets and bags, the only thing picked up should be the flight envelope and straight out the window or emergency exit

It's our procedure to take a high viz jacket, your cap with you. It readily identifies you as crew in order to give instructions.
We would only exit through a window in the event of a catastrophic accident where exiting out through the cabin is impossible. Its the Captains responsibility to ensure everyone is off the aircraft before he leaves.
Not sure what you mean by the flight envelope.
As to having bags, well I don't agree with taking them.

eatmyshorts

billie1b wrote: »

Ok as much as I agree with you and I hope if I ever was in that situation I would leave my bag behind hoping that the medication I need every few hours is available in wherever I may be but what excuse do you have for the crew, one of them is carrying a bag over his shoulder and the other has what appears to be a bag behind hos high-viz jacket. If its a rule of the evacuation to leave everything behind the skipper and f/o shouldn't have time to get high-viz jackets and bags, the only thing picked up should be the flight envelope and straight out the window or emergency exit

I don't see either pilot carrying a bag here. I see the Captain holding a high viz jacket, while the FO is carrying a clipboard under his arm. The clipboard most probably contains the loadsheet and NOTOC documents. Documents that you take with you to assist the fire services.

bronn

No matter what the situation, there's no accounting for the randomness of people's behaviour. This isn't the first time there's been an emergency evacuation from a plane where luggage has been as issue. This happened after the Hudson River landing.

Not everyone aboard was self-possessed. A woman in her 60s was adamant about taking her bags. "She was dragging luggage out of the overhead and dragging it down the aisle," said David Sanderson, 47, of Charlotte. "She was holding onto the wing." Another man picked her up and threw her into a raft. Her bags went into the Hudson. "But she kept screaming about getting her luggage," Sanderson said.

You can read the full article here. So, people are going to do weird shít and do things that would astonish you, especially in emergency situations.

In relation to this flight, do we know how far into takeoff roll was this plane? Presumably, the engine blow out happened at exactly the right time, if you could call it such a thing. A few seconds more and it looks like there wouldn't have been enough room at the end of the runway to stop the plane. I presume that if there's a failure like this, it's better to slam on the brakes and face the possibility of an overshoot.

billie1b

eatmyshorts wrote: »

It's our procedure to take a high viz jacket, your cap with you. It readily identifies you as crew in order to give instructions.
We would only exit through a window in the event of a catastrophic accident where exiting out through the cabin is impossible. Its the Captains responsibility to ensure everyone is off the aircraft before he leaves.
Not sure what you mean by the flight envelope.
As to having bags, well I don't agree with taking them.

Sorry, I refer to the 'flight envelope' as the envelope that contains the loadsheet and other paperwork, we have it on our aircrafts, all the docs go in, flights plans, weather, loadsheets, cargo sheets etc and thats taken incase of emergency. It could have an official name but i'm honestly not sure

billie1b

eatmyshorts wrote: »

I don't see either pilot carrying a bag here. I see the Captain holding a high viz jacket, while the FO is carrying a clipboard under his arm. The clipboard most probably contains the loadsheet and NOTOC documents. Documents that you take with you to assist the fire services.

Yeah its a different angle to the one I seen, it may very well be a clipboard, just looked very big, it could also have been his jacket hanging over his shoulder, i'm not exactly sure, it was a crap picture.

Tenger

billie1b wrote: »

..............If its a rule of the evacuation to leave everything behind the skipper and f/o shouldn't have time to get high-viz jackets and bags, the only thing picked up should be the flight envelope and straight out the window or emergency exit

As above, in an evacuation crew must be readily identifiable...hence the need to grab hi-viz and load sheet/NOTOC's. Cabin crew also need to have hi-viz and megaphone (and maybe a first aid kit if possible, depending on the airline)
This is why you often see the cabin crew bags in the first and last overhead bins..(flight crew have their bag in the cockpit close to them)...they have their hi-viz jackets at the top so easy to grab in a hurry. In a time available emergency they would put their hi-viz on for the landing/crash.

asteroids over berlin

Whole incident kinda instills even more confidence in Pilots and ATC etc, really calm. Then of course everybody gets off safely. Also the plane didn't go up/explode, so the fuel tanks must be very strong (probably obviously so). Well done to all involved - shout out to the emergency services

billie1b

Tenger wrote: »

As above, in an evacuation crew must be readily identifiable...hence the need to grab hi-viz and load sheet/NOTOC's. Cabin crew also need to have hi-viz and megaphone (also a first kit depending on the airline)
This is why you often see the cabin crew bags in the first and last overhead bins..(flight crew have their bag in the cockpit close to them)...they have their hi-viz jackets at the top so easy to grab in a hurry. In a time available emergency they would put their hi-viz on for the landing/crash.

I know all this thanks, its the same at my airline, i'm just saying if its one rule for them and one rule for others it should be stated. Maybe if people see the crew taking their bags out and getting them ready they'll automatically assume they can take theirs. The high-viz I understand, the cap not so much

Tenger

asteroids over berlin wrote: »

Whole incident kinda instills even more confidence in Pilots and ATC etc, really calm. ......Well done to all involved - shout out to the emergency services

Indeed, fire was out apparently 4 minutes after the mayday call.

I actually made mt son listen to the ATC recording last night, while looking at a video of the incident to instill a sense of calmness to him.....he isnt' a good flyer. Didn't even attempt this with the missus however!!!!

elastico

Looks like another crew member in Hi-Viz under the slide to the right, standing beside the fireman?

Seems strange they should be allowed there without protective clothing.

eatmyshorts

asteroids over berlin wrote: »

Whole incident kinda instills even more confidence in Pilots and ATC etc, really calm. Then of course everybody gets off safely. Also the plane didn't go up/explode, so the fuel tanks must be very strong (probably obviously so). Well done to all involved - shout out to the emergency services

You have to be calm in these situations. Panicking only disrupts the logical thought processes. You see it everywhere these days with the "heart-on-the-sleeve, cry at the drop of a hat emotional types" . In an emergency these people would be as useful as a bag of ****e.
That's why nearly anybody could learn to "fly" a plane, but only those with the right aptitude can learn to "operate" one.

Edit: apparently "arse" is OK, but I can't say "sh1te". :-)

weisses

asteroids over berlin wrote: »

Whole incident kinda instills even more confidence in Pilots and ATC etc, really calm. Then of course everybody gets off safely. Also the plane didn't go up/explode, so the fuel tanks must be very strong (probably obviously so). Well done to all involved - shout out to the emergency services

It is something you train for, (talking from first hand experience as an ex firefighter)

de biz

Glad to see Ian maintaining the correct headdress....quality operator!

Long Time Lurker

Video from the cabin inside this link

http://www.airlive.net/2015/09/news-british-airways-boeing-777-caught.html?m=1

pfurey101

NTSB Issues Update on the British Airways Engine Fire at Las Vegas
Sept. 10, 2015

As part of its ongoing investigation into Tuesday’s engine fire that occurred during takeoff of British Airways flight 2276, a Boeing 777, at McCarran International Airport (LAS), the NTSB today released the following investigative update.

NTSB investigators arrived on scene Wednesday morning local time to begin the on-scene investigation. The NTSB investigative team includes experts in powerplants, airplane systems, and fire. The following groups will be organized: powerplants, airworthiness (airplane structure, systems, and fire), flight data recorder and cockpit voice recorder.

Parties to the NTSB investigation are the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA), The Boeing Company, and GE Aviation. In accordance with the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) Annex 13, the UK Air Accidents Investigations Branch (AAIB), as the State of the Operator, has appointed an accredited representative to assist the investigation. The UK accredited representative has initially appointed British Airways and the UK Civil Aviation Authority as technical advisors.

The following are the initial factual findings:

• British Airways flight 2276, a Boeing 777-200ER, equipped with two GE90-85B engines, registration G-VIIO, was operating under the provisions of 14 Code of Federal Regulations (CFR) Part 129 and was enroute to London - Gatwick Airport (LGW), Horley, England.

• There were 157 passengers, including 1 lap child, and 13 crew members on board. There were several minor injuries as a result of the evacuation (mostly abrasions).

• The flight data recorder, cockpit voice recorder and quick access recorder have arrived at the NTSB Vehicle Recorder Laboratory and are currently being downloaded.

• On Tuesday evening, the airplane was photographed and the runway debris documented by FAA and airport officials before airplane was towed to secluded area of the airport (in order to reopen the runway).

• Initial examination of the left engine revealed multiple breaches of the engine case in the area around the high pressure compressor.

• Examination of the material recovered from runway found several pieces of the high pressure compressor spool (approximately 7-8 inches in length).

• Initial examination of the airplane by NTSB revealed that the left engine and pylon, left fuselage structure and inboard left wing airplane were substantially damaged by the fire. This damage will be documented over the next several days.

The powerplants and airworthiness groups will continue documenting the airplane and engine over the next several days. It is anticipate that once the tooling is in place, the left engine will be removed and shipped to a facility to conduct a full teardown.

Dardania

pfurey101 wrote: »

NTSB Issues Update on the British Airways Engine Fire at Las Vegas
Sept. 10, 2015

As part of its ongoing investigation into Tuesday’s engine fire that occurred during takeoff of British Airways flight 2276, a Boeing 777, at McCarran International Airport (LAS), the NTSB today released the following investigative update.

NTSB investigators arrived on scene Wednesday morning local time to begin the on-scene investigation. The NTSB investigative team includes experts in powerplants, airplane systems, and fire. The following groups will be organized: powerplants, airworthiness (airplane structure, systems, and fire), flight data recorder and cockpit voice recorder.

Parties to the NTSB investigation are the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA), The Boeing Company, and GE Aviation. In accordance with the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) Annex 13, the UK Air Accidents Investigations Branch (AAIB), as the State of the Operator, has appointed an accredited representative to assist the investigation. The UK accredited representative has initially appointed British Airways and the UK Civil Aviation Authority as technical advisors.

The following are the initial factual findings:

• British Airways flight 2276, a Boeing 777-200ER, equipped with two GE90-85B engines, registration G-VIIO, was operating under the provisions of 14 Code of Federal Regulations (CFR) Part 129 and was enroute to London - Gatwick Airport (LGW), Horley, England.

• There were 157 passengers, including 1 lap child, and 13 crew members on board. There were several minor injuries as a result of the evacuation (mostly abrasions).

• The flight data recorder, cockpit voice recorder and quick access recorder have arrived at the NTSB Vehicle Recorder Laboratory and are currently being downloaded.

• On Tuesday evening, the airplane was photographed and the runway debris documented by FAA and airport officials before airplane was towed to secluded area of the airport (in order to reopen the runway).

• Initial examination of the left engine revealed multiple breaches of the engine case in the area around the high pressure compressor.

• Examination of the material recovered from runway found several pieces of the high pressure compressor spool (approximately 7-8 inches in length).

• Initial examination of the airplane by NTSB revealed that the left engine and pylon, left fuselage structure and inboard left wing airplane were substantially damaged by the fire. This damage will be documented over the next several days.

The powerplants and airworthiness groups will continue documenting the airplane and engine over the next several days. It is anticipate that once the tooling is in place, the left engine will be removed and shipped to a facility to conduct a full teardown.

great update

for a high pressure component to fail - could be fatigue? Or balance issue?

Seems unlikely FOD would get that far in...

smurfjed

• Initial examination of the airplane by NTSB revealed that the left engine and pylon, left fuselage structure and inboard left wing airplane were substantially damaged by the fire. This damage will be documented over the next several days.
.

No mention of any fuel tank damage.

OzCam

As a formerly-frequent flyer with an interest in emergency response, I always fly/flew with my passport, currency and boarding card(s) in a pouch around my neck. Jacket on the coathook on the seat in front, backpack or laptop in the footwell. If there's time to grab them, fine. If not leave them. Anyone impeding my evac will be assisted towards the exit, whether they like it or not.

Sorry to sound unsympathetic to people who want their carryon from the bin, but in a fire situation you get out or you die. Many passengers have had to pay with their lives in previous events to teach us that lesson. The least we can do is learn it.

One of the few situations where I'm glad I'm not a woman and have to keep tabs on a handbag with half of my life in it. I had an ex many years ago whose "handbag" was the size of a suitcase.