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Hooray!!! 19 billion tax windfall for Ireland

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24

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    #32
    JustTheOne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,681 ✭✭✭JustTheOne


    Guy:Incognito wrote: »
    Even if we made nothing from them at all, we save by not paying the dole to a few thousand people.
    say 5000 people have jobs, thats €940,000 a week (plus any extras like rent allowance etc) that the government is not spending.

    Simple concept that the left and their followers just can't get their head around.


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    #33
    Eugene Norman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,191 ✭✭✭Eugene Norman


    Guy:Incognito wrote: »
    Even if we made nothing from them at all, we save by not paying the dole to a few thousand people.
    say 5000 people have jobs, thats €940,000 a week (plus any extras like rent allowance etc) that the government is not spending.

    Far more than thst since all high paying jobs have multipler effects creating more jobs down line, who pay taxes etc.

    That said they should pay the corporate rate here of course.


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    #34
    Youngblood.III
    Site Banned Posts: 777 ✭✭✭Youngblood.III


    Jett Square Pepperoni wrote: »
    By definition Ireland is Third World; being neutral or unaligned.

    In living standards we are a 1st world country.


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    #35
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    Eugene Norman wrote: »
    Well Apple has been here since 1980 so hardly fly by night. If the commission finds against Apple we still have the low 12.5%.

    However mint aero wants all IT companies to go to India regardless. In the meantime he wants us to invent local indigenous industries to compete with Germany.

    They have been here since the Tax deal, Just like the rest.


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    #36
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    JustTheOne wrote: »
    Simple concept that the left and their followers just can't get their head around.

    Americas left ? They want apple to pay tax as well.


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    #37
    Collie D
    Registered Users Posts: 11,314 ✭✭✭✭Collie D


    Eugene Norman wrote: »

    However mint aero wants all IT companies to go to India regardless. In the meantime he wants us to invent local indigenous industries to compete with Germany.

    Have you an issue with Ballintubber Motor Works?


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    #38
    Eugene Norman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,191 ✭✭✭Eugene Norman


    Youngblood.III wrote: »
    How...its tax they already owe in Europe

    America also claims it because the company can be taxed where its head quarters are if it transfers money back to HQ. It doesn't owe tax to Europe, it's either Ireland or the U.S.


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    #39
    JustTheOne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,681 ✭✭✭JustTheOne


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    Americas left ? They want apple to pay tax as well.

    No Ireland's left.

    They want to increase the tax rate.


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    #40
    Mena
    Registered Users Posts: 3,180 ✭✭✭Mena


    Youngblood.III wrote: »
    In living standards we are a 1st world country.

    Not if people with your gift for economics ever make it into public office...


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    #41
    BreadnBuddha
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,311 ✭✭✭BreadnBuddha


    Eugene Norman wrote: »
    That's a great plan. I hope you run for office.

    I hope he trips.


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    #42
    Youngblood.III
    Site Banned Posts: 777 ✭✭✭Youngblood.III


    The US wouldn't dare do that to Europe for Apple.


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    #43
    Boskowski
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,361 ✭✭✭Boskowski


    Collie D wrote: »
    What a bizarre post

    There is a whole new National Boards Front visible here lately. They can be identified by phrases like 'pleasing Germany', 'our own first', 'water charges', '* immigrants'. They barge into randomly selected threads and make some sort of twisted connection with their agenda and then f*ck off again. Some are more persistent.

    You know who you are. I'm on to you. (always wanted to say that)


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    #44
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    JustTheOne wrote: »
    No Ireland's left.

    They want to increase the tax rate.

    No they don't they want the current tax rate to be paid.


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    #45
    Eugene Norman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,191 ✭✭✭Eugene Norman


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    They have been here since the Tax deal, Just like the rest.

    Apple is accused of getting an exemption to the 12.5%. The 12.5% isn't yet under threat.


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    #46
    Eoin247
    Registered Users Posts: 826 ✭✭✭Eoin247


    Youngblood.III wrote: »
    The US wouldn't dare do that to Europe for Apple.

    Why would it be for Apple? They would be more than happy to take in more tax money if they are justified in doing so.


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    #47
    Youngblood.III
    Site Banned Posts: 777 ✭✭✭Youngblood.III


    Mena wrote: »
    Not if people with your gift for economics ever make it into public office...

    So, we would all revert to living in mud huts and sticks...!!

    The US and Europe are slowly closing in on these "honeymoon" deals that the likes of Apple etc have...its only a matter of time before all these companies will HAVE to pay proper taxes in one place or another.


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    #48
    Youngblood.III
    Site Banned Posts: 777 ✭✭✭Youngblood.III


    Eoin247 wrote: »
    Why would it be for Apple? They would be more than happy to take in more tax money if they are justified in doing so.

    And start an economic war with Europe?


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    #49
    Clearlier
    Registered Users Posts: 4,454 ✭✭✭Clearlier


    Youngblood.III wrote: »
    Great, so tell me, what's wrong with paying correct taxes?

    The argument is that they are using loopholes created by the existence of disparate national tax codes to avoid paying tax. As this is not the intention of the tax system and there is an expectation that Apple and many others will pay taxes that are due their behaviour is unethical. The argument about legality appears to be up for debate.

    I'm guessing that the 19bn is probably mostly due to other European countries but I'm not familiar with this case.


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    #50
    Streetwalker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,906 ✭✭✭Streetwalker


    Will remember this the next time some ar sehole from Labour or FG comes knocking on my door looking for votes.


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    #51
    Eugene Norman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,191 ✭✭✭Eugene Norman


    Youngblood.III wrote: »
    The US wouldn't dare do that to Europe for Apple.

    The U.S. isn't scared of the EU.

    There's a feeling in Ireland that Apple is screwing Ireland. There's a feeling in other countries that Ireland is screwing other countries by being a tax haven. Only one of these is true.

    Which?

    Ireland isn't being screwed. In fact Ireland adds little to Apples bottom line compared to where the IP is made, largely in Cupertino. What adds value to the largely off the shelf components that make an iPhone is the design, and the OS. They do add some features to the ARM chipset so its not quite off the shelf, but that's also designed in Cupertino. The assembly of these components is a trivial manufacturing handled by FoxConn, basically an expense to Apple. So morally it's hard to see the Irish taxpayer as being hard pressed here.

    The U.S. taxpayer has a greater call on the money.

    As to whether the Irish economy will survive if these special deals -- beyond the 12.5% -- are eliminated the 12.5% still survives.

    Even if the EU forced a European wide corporate tax companies would only flee Ireland if somewhere else had lower tax rates, by definition this would be outside Europe. Which isn't in Europes interest, so any EU wide corporation tax would be competitive.


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    #52
    Youngblood.III
    Site Banned Posts: 777 ✭✭✭Youngblood.III


    Apple funnelled their profits through Ireland so the bill will be for tax in Ireland.


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    #53
    Eugene Norman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,191 ✭✭✭Eugene Norman


    Clearlier wrote: »
    The argument is that they are using loopholes created by the existence of disparate national tax codes to avoid paying tax. As this is not the intention of the tax system and there is an expectation that Apple and many others will pay taxes that are due their behaviour is unethical. The argument about legality appears to be up for debate.

    I'm guessing that the 19bn is probably mostly due to other European countries but I'm not familiar with this case.

    No it isn't. That's not how corporation tax works.


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    #54
    Eugene Norman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,191 ✭✭✭Eugene Norman


    Streetwalker wrote: »
    Will remember this the next time some ar sehole from Labour or FG comes knocking on my door looking for votes.

    this claim far predates this coalition.


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    #55
    Youngblood.III
    Site Banned Posts: 777 ✭✭✭Youngblood.III


    It's not about the US been scared of Europe..., the US has a lot more interests in Europe than a tax bill for Apple.
    They'll hardly upset everything for 19billion...


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    #56
    Youngblood.III
    Site Banned Posts: 777 ✭✭✭Youngblood.III


    Eugene Norman wrote: »
    America also claims it because the company can be taxed where its head quarters are if it transfers money back to HQ. It doesn't owe tax to Europe, it's either Ireland or the U.S.

    Ireland is Europe....as are other countries.


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    #57
    Eugene Norman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,191 ✭✭✭Eugene Norman


    Youngblood.III wrote: »
    It's not about the US been scared of Europe..., the US has a lot more interests in Europe than a tax bill for Apple.
    They'll hardly upset everything for 19billion...

    Any chance you would learn to quote?

    The EU isn't getting this money because the corporation tax is payable to the national governments unless they levy fines of 19Bn then the money goes to the Irish exchequer.

    It's the Irish exchequer that's accused of not taxing enough, which is illegal under EU rules for anti-competitive reasons. However if the taxes are due it can only be to Ireland, minus EU fines unless the Americans swoop in. America wants this money, and claims it (not just Apple) because it sees money held abroad by companies headquarter there as tax evasion, and if Apple does pay that because of double tax agreements it won't owe it here.


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    #58
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    Youngblood.III wrote: »
    Ireland is Europe....as are other countries.

    EU has a Har*on for a homogenised tax system.


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    #59
    Eugene Norman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,191 ✭✭✭Eugene Norman


    Youngblood.III wrote: »
    Ireland is Europe....as are other countries.

    No it's not. It is in Europe. To say the money is owed to Europe sounds like the EU might get it.

    In fact I think that the EU should have a EU wide corporation tax to allow it some fiscal control. But it doesn't yet.


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    #60
    Outkast_IRE
    Registered Users Posts: 7,515 ✭✭✭Outkast_IRE


    Youngblood.III wrote: »
    Great, so tell me, what's wrong with paying correct taxes?
    It would seem that they did pay the correct taxes that were perfectly in line with their agreement with the government.

    The crux of the argument will be if the government of Ireland did something wrong in the deal they drew up.


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    #61
    Sh1tbag OToole
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,973 ✭✭✭Sh1tbag OToole


    Outkast_IRE wrote: »
    Ireland and Apple will fight this one tooth and nail.

    Apple are very committed to Ireland, especially their HQ in Cork.

    The amount of money they have spent on their Campus in Cork in the last few years is massive, they have added huge numbers of jobs very quietly, and intend on adding many more over the next few years.

    and they plan to outsource a whole lot to Chickity China land too. Better get that 19bn off them before they cease to be a company over here


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