Cyclists in the bus lane on the Chapelizod Bypass

alias no.9

An interesting solution might be improving the access onto the riverbank path between Chapelizod and the War Memorial Gardens, and its continuation through Clancy Quay and a bridge over the Pheonix Park Tunnel tracks to allow cyclists come up the side of Heuston and out onto the quays. A riverbank cycle beats cycling on a bypass every day of the week in my mind.

Spanish Eyes

Amirani wrote: »

Move over? To where exactly?

On this stretch of road that we are discussing there is a garage forecourt directly off the buslane. Often two or three cyclists are slowly going up the hill in front of the bus, or buses, holding them up for a while.

So there is the garage forecourt, ideal place for the bikes to nip into and let the buses pass. But no. Also because car traffic is practically at a standstill on that stretch too, it is easy for a cyclist to move into the car lane for the few seconds it would take for the bus to pass.

I have said in earlier posts that a lot of cyclists are very kind and do this. However many do not and I just think that is a bit selfish of them. If it is safe to do so, it only takes about five seconds.

But I am afraid that SOME cyclists just will not compromise. Most do, it is those who don't because they will "lose momentum" while a hundred bus passengers are crawling behind them that just take the proverbial biscuit.

A bit of give and take is all that is required, where it is safe and feasible to do so.

And for cyclist's sake, I hope they manage to widen the bus lane for all our sakes. That is the nub of the problem admittedly.

cython

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

On this stretch of road that we are discussing there is a garage forecourt directly off the buslane. Often two or three cyclists are slowly going up the hill in front of the bus, or buses, holding them up for a while.

So there is the garage forecourt, ideal place for the bikes to nip into and let the buses pass. But no. Also because car traffic is practically at a standstill on that stretch too, it is easy for a cyclist to move into the car lane for the few seconds it would take for the bus to pass.

I have said in earlier posts that a lot of cyclists are very kind and do this. However many do not and I just think that is a bit selfish of them. If it is safe to do so, it only takes about five seconds.

But I am afraid that SOME cyclists just will not compromise. Most do, it is those who don't because they will "lose momentum" while a hundred bus passengers are crawling behind them that just take the proverbial biscuit.

A bit of give and take is all that is required, where it is safe and feasible to do so.

And for cyclist's sake, I hope they manage to widen the bus lane for all our sakes. That is the nub of the problem admittedly.

One of the last things a motorist in a petrol station expects is probably a cyclist "nipping" across the forecourt, so I would commend any cyclist who does not divert in there, as doing so is actually putting themselves at greater risk! Certainly it is far from ideal if the idea is given even 10 seconds of thought. If car traffic is moving so slowly, is it fair to expect the cyclists to change lane and potentially stop either? Again, most motorists will not necessarily be expecting this, especially if not near a right turn that the cyclist might want to take. Given the idiotic level of driving I frequently observe, once again I commend any cyclist who elects not to mingle with the average driver.

This is speaking as someone who has only ever driving this road, by the way, so I'm not one of the cyclists you feel is delaying you, before you suggest I'm being defensive of my own actions.

Ultimately it all comes down to this excerpt: "I just think that is a bit selfish of them" - you have not considered it from any other perspective, and since you view it as an inconvenience of course it must be selfishness :rolleyes:

Spanish Eyes

alias no.9 wrote: »

An interesting solution might be improving the access onto the riverbank path between Chapelizod and the War Memorial Gardens, and its continuation through Clancy Quay and a bridge over the Pheonix Park Tunnel tracks to allow cyclists come up the side of Heuston and out onto the quays. A riverbank cycle beats cycling on a bypass every day of the week in my mind.

I wonder how access could be improved though?

There is a new cycle and pedestrian path from Palmerstown to the West Co. Hotel on the Old Lucan Road. Then the road goes into the village. There is a bit of a buslane alright but comes to a shuddering halt approaching the bridge.

It would be good alright, it is a really nice path along the river and is already set up for cycling and walking.

cdebru

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

FGS cars are not blocking two lanes, they are commuting aswell!

I agree that the bus lane is very narrow, hopefully that will be fixed soon. Have you heard anything about that?

Please have an open mind as to how this can be solved. But in the meantime the reluctance of SOME cyclists to move over where it can be done is baffling to me.

The cyclists are moving the buses are moving the cars aren't that is the blockage not the cyclists, funny that you think cars are perfectly entitled to sit blocking 2 lanes but the cyclists are the problem.
Personally I wouldn't advise any cyclist to move into the traffic lanes or into the garage, the cyclist mybe momentarily delaying the bus but the bus will stop at Palmerston and the cyclists will disappear of in front again.
Again cyclists aren't the problem too many private cars are the problem, the vast majority of those cycling also own a car if they weren't cycling they would probably be sitting in their car being part of the problem rather than part of the solution.
Open your mind to where the real problem is, its to the right of the bus not the left.

Spanish Eyes

cython wrote: »

One of the last things a motorist in a petrol station expects is probably a cyclist "nipping" across the forecourt, so I would commend any cyclist who does not divert in there, as doing so is actually putting themselves at greater risk! Certainly it is far from ideal if the idea is given even 10 seconds of thought. If car traffic is moving so slowly, is it fair to expect the cyclists to change lane and potentially stop either? Again, most motorists will not necessarily be expecting this, especially if not near a right turn that the cyclist might want to take. Given the idiotic level of driving I frequently observe, once again I commend any cyclist who elects not to mingle with the average driver.

This is speaking as someone who has only ever driving this road, by the way, so I'm not one of the cyclists you feel is delaying you, before you suggest I'm being defensive of my own actions.

Ultimately it all comes down to this excerpt: "I just think that is a bit selfish of them" - you have not considered it from any other perspective, and since you view it as an inconvenience of course it must be selfishness :rolleyes:

It is not a dangerous manoevre, many cyclists (god bless them) do it. The access to the forecourt has a lane to the right where there are no pumps, so a quick in, and then out again.

https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.35325,-6.36407,3a,75y,131.26h,76.2t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s9sH9ANw27iMY5S8Yn-CxdQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Merrion

Why is the bus using the bypass? - surely the bus needs to go through as many residential areas as possible for the dropping off and picking up of people?

RobFowl

kidneyfan wrote: »

Folks it is time to ban cyclists from the Chapelizod bypass. I can't count the number of times I have seen a bus driving BEHIND a cyclist up the hill there. Does Mr I don't pay road tax EVER get out of the Buses way?

NOT on YOUR NELLY!

Time to BAN cyclists from the bypass and make them go through Chapelizod.

cython

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

It is not a dangerous manoevre, many cyclists (god bless them) do it. The access to the forecourt has a lane to the right where there are no pumps, so a quick in, and then out again.

https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.35325,-6.36407,3a,75y,131.26h,76.2t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s9sH9ANw27iMY5S8Yn-CxdQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

It is more dangerous than remaining on the road. Even in the street view image you have linked, the safest place for the cyclist at the exit from the forecourt on the road is the rightmost part of the bus lane due to the shocking condition of the surface! Now maybe that has been rectified since the images were taken, but the fact remains that while it may not be inherently dangerous to enter the forecourt (and I did not suggest it was, if you re-read my post), it is riskier than maintaining their course on the road in the bus lane. There are far too many road users out there that expect cyclists to marginalise themselves as they personally view cyclists as though they were some subhuman class of road user, and this suggestion of yours is more of the same.

Spanish Eyes

Merrion wrote: »

Why is the bus using the bypass? - surely the bus needs to go through as many residential areas as possible for the dropping off and picking up of people?

Certain buses do go through Chapelizod. There is precious little residential between Islandbridge and Palmerstown apart from Chapelizod to be fair.

The Phoenix Park and the River Liffey on opposite sides of the road to a large extent result in little or no residential areas on that stretch really.

Spanish Eyes

cython wrote: »

It is more dangerous than remaining on the road. Even in the street view image you have linked, the safest place for the cyclist at the exit from the forecourt on the road is the rightmost part of the bus lane due to the shocking condition of the surface! Now maybe that has been rectified since the images were taken, but the fact remains that while it may not be inherently dangerous to enter the forecourt (and I did not suggest it was, if you re-read my post), it is riskier than maintaining their course on the road in the bus lane. There are far too many road users out there that expect cyclists to marginalise themselves a, s they personally view cyclists as though they were some subhuman class of road userand this suggestion of yours is more of the same.

I really don't think you need to be so defensive. I do not and never did view cyclists as subhuman, and I think it's a bit hysterical of you to say that.

But anyway, we have to share the road. Cyclists nowadays are (slowly I know) being very well catered for with cycle lanes and so on.

It's a long road (pun), but we will get there eventually.

alias no.9

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

I wonder how access could be improved though?

There is a new cycle and pedestrian path from Palmerstown to the West Co. Hotel on the Old Lucan Road. Then the road goes into the village. There is a bit of a buslane alright but comes to a shuddering halt approaching the bridge.

It would be good alright, it is a really nice path along the river and is already set up for cycling and walking.

The bit they've done has turned out better than I expected, they've provided a decent width there.

A cycle track sidestepping the lights at the Lucan Road / Kylemore Road is an obvious first step.

Altering the sequence of lights to allow cyclists more time straight through the lights from the Lucan road onto St Lawrences Road near the bridge would be a significant help. This needs to be done without increasing the access for cars onto St Lawrences Road because its a pinch point. Maybe ban cars going from Lucan Road onto St Lawrences for morning rush hour.

Cyclists have to dismount at a kissing gate at the Chapelizod entrance to the cycle path and a stupid barrier arrangement when the path enters the War Memorial Gardens. There's another barrier in the War Memorial Gardens but that can be sidestepped through the carpark. Redesigning these three points to allow cyclists to cycle through then without dismounting would be another big improvement.

That leaves the big gap, the currently non existent section from the exit of the War Memorial Gardens to Heuston.

ted1

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

I use the bus to commute, and pay my fares. My Opel Insignia Eco costs me €180 pa tax.

You either have a few cars, or own a big non eco friendly car. €1,000 pa in car tax :eek:

If your insignia was early 08 or older it would also be close to a grand.
For the relative low mileage it does changing it would not be environmental friendly. You may pay your fare but busses still receive state subsidies . The true cost of your fare is higher than what you pay

Spanish Eyes

ted1 wrote: »

If your insignia was early 08 or older it would also be close to a grand.
For the relative low mileage it does changing it would not be environmental friendly. You may pay your fare but busses still receive state subsidies . The true cost of your fare is higher than what you pay

Well it's obviously not pre '08 if I only pay €180.

I've been paying taxes all my life and if motorways have been built to cater for car users (including myself of course!), then it's only fair that public transport should be subsidised through taxation too.

Everyone gets a similar deal that way, both car users and PT users.

The cyclists were the forgotten, but not anymore!

Spanish Eyes

alias no.9 wrote: »

The bit they've done has turned out better than I expected, they've provided a decent width there.

A cycle track sidestepping the lights at the Lucan Road / Kylemore Road is an obvious first step.

Altering the sequence of lights to allow cyclists more time straight through the lights from the Lucan road onto St Lawrences Road near the bridge would be a significant help. This needs to be done without increasing the access for cars onto St Lawrences Road because its a pinch point. Maybe ban cars going from Lucan Road onto St Lawrences for morning rush hour.

Cyclists have to dismount at a kissing gate at the Chapelizod entrance to the cycle path and a stupid barrier arrangement when the path enters the War Memorial Gardens. There's another barrier in the War Memorial Gardens but that can be sidestepped through the carpark. Redesigning these three points to allow cyclists to cycle through then without dismounting would be another big improvement.

That leaves the big gap, the currently non existent section from the exit of the War Memorial Gardens to Heuston.

The bit in bold was what I was thinking about as being a bit of a problem alright. The gates and barriers that you mention could be sorted quickly enough.

I cannot think of any solution regarding Heuston, unless a cycle lane could be put in left at the exit of Memorial Gardens down to Islandbridge and right on to Conyngham Road. I'm thinking out loud here, so I could be way off the mark!

It would be a shame not to make full use of the cycle track along the Liffey. It's already in place.

cdebru

Merrion wrote: »

Why is the bus using the bypass? - surely the bus needs to go through as many residential areas as possible for the dropping off and picking up of people?

Some buses uses chapelizod some use the bypass there is residential areas the far side of the bypass that wouldn't be served if all buses used chapelizod.

alias no.9

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

The bit in bold was what I was thinking about as being a bit of a problem alright. The gates and barriers that you mention could be sorted quickly enough.

I cannot think of any solution regarding Heuston, unless a cycle lane could be put in left at the exit of Memorial Gardens down to Islandbridge and right on to Conyngham Road. I'm thinking out loud here, so I could be way off the mark!

It would be a shame not to make full use of the cycle track along the Liffey. It's already in place.

There's already a route through the Clancy Quay development on the opposite side of the SCR from the exit of the War Memorial Gardens that comes to the west siide of the tracks entering the Phoenix Park Tunnel, a bridge across the tracks could connect with the existing road from the east side of the tracks up to the front of Heuston.

The quid pro quo could be the use of the bridge to also allow a platform on the west side of these tracks in order to allow the future Kildare Route Trains entering the Phoenix Park Tunnel serve Heuston to some degree and the American owners of Clancy Quay get what would effectively be an on site train station.

roverrules

cython wrote: »

Cyclists are probably also commuting rather than simply "blocking" a bus lane, or does this reasoning only apply when it suits an agenda you are trying to push? You can't have it every way here.

I take it you don't cycle yourself, but speaking as a cyclist (and driver and pedestrian, for that matter) if I had to pull over on every poorly designed road where some motorist thought it could and thus should be done, I'd spend far too much time stopped. Not to mention that there's every chance that these same cyclists are held up by buses heading into town on the quays in the morning, so it's not really fair to expect the cyclists to lose out/give up every time either.

However,normally cars aren't in the bus lane

Qualitymark

The condition of the road surface is often the reason for cyclists having to stay out. For example, in Leinster Road, linking Rathmines and Harold's Cross, the surface has been degenerating for many months, meaning that cyclists have to weave between tyre-grabbing slits and deadly potholes, to the frustration of drivers whose car tyres deal better with a surface like something you'd find on a safari.

cython

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

I really don't think you need to be so defensive. I do not and never did view cyclists as subhuman, and I think it's a bit hysterical of you to say that.

But anyway, we have to share the road. Cyclists nowadays are (slowly I know) being very well catered for with cycle lanes and so on.

It's a long road (pun), but we will get there eventually.

That's the key point you take from my posts?! Seems like a case of the pot calling the kettle black to be accusing me of being defensive really. Rather than address my reasoning behind why your suggestion is a bad idea you squirrel my words to claim something I never actually did! I never claimed that was your personal attitude, but simply that your suggestion was certainly in line with a commonly held attitude along those lines. Admittedly subhuman may be hyperbolic (not hysterical by any means though) on my part but certainly cyclists are the lowest class of road users in the eyes of many other groups.

As for your last sentence, this doesn't really add up - if cyclists were so well catered for now, speed of same would be irrelevant, so clearly they're not that well catered for now but things just happen to be improving. Of course what this overlooks is that so many pieces of cycling infrastructure are so half-baked from inception to implementation that plenty of cyclists would prefer they not exist and thus they not get grief for not using substandard and indeed less safe facilities.

kidneyfan

Time for a cyclists boardwalk on the Chapelizod bypass.

kidneyfan

listermint wrote: »

Perplexed as to how you know they don't pay Road tax.

I have a bike but also oay pay 1811 a year in car tax and 80 tax on a motorbike. I'd imagine paying more Road tax than you and cycling anyway must annoy you?

What car is that ? I only pay €700 a year and my car is enormous.

kidneyfan

Avatar MIA wrote: »

OP,

When using the bus you're paying the exact same amount of road tax as the cyclist.

Poor car drivers, can't catch a break with all the freeloaders :pac:

I drive. I certainly don't take Dublin buses.

desertcircus

roverrules wrote: »

However,normally cars aren't in the bus lane

Because, unlike cars, cyclists are specifically permitted to use bus lanes. It makes no sense to look at two lanes of traffic jams and one lane doing 25kph and claim that lane is the problem.

desertcircus

kidneyfan wrote: »

I drive. I certainly don't take Dublin buses.

So let me get this straight: you think bikes should be banned in order to speed up a mode of transport you appear to think is beneath you?

kidneyfan

desertcircus wrote: »

So let me get this straight: you think bikes should be banned in order to speed up a mode of transport you appear to think is beneath you?

Absolutely. The 100 people on the bus should not be delayed by 1 cyclist.

cdebru

desertcircus wrote: »

So let me get this straight: you think bikes should be banned in order to speed up a mode of transport you appear to think is beneath you?

Explains a lot actually, if he travelled on the bus he would know that cyclists aren't really delaying the bus, in fact most cycling would have a higher average speed along the N4 than most buses, the same cyclist that the bus is behind overtook the bus while it sat in traffic from liffey valley to Palmerston cross, and will overtake the bus again while it sits in traffic at islandbridge and that will be the last time anyone on the bus will see that cyclist because the cyclist will be down the Quays and into town well before the bus.
Like I said the real delay for buses is not cyclists its private cars, particularly where dedicated lanes end.

desertcircus

kidneyfan wrote: »

Absolutely. The 100 people on the bus should not be delayed by 1 cyclist.

But you're fine with them being delayed by one driver.

cdebru

kidneyfan wrote: »

Absolutely. The 100 people on the bus should not be delayed by 1 cyclist.

But you don't see that you sitting in your car on your own are blocking the bus ? Why can't the bus move out and overtake the cyclist ? Oh yeah because you are blocking the lane, time you were forced to cycle or use the bus maybe.

kidneyfan

cdebru wrote: »

Like I said the real delay for buses is not cyclists its private cars, particularly where dedicated lanes end.

What! No way. How can private cars be delaying ANYONW when it is the slowest way to travel in peak time traffic?