Mayo GAA Discussion Part 2

Must say I admire Mayo the way they pick themselves up off the canvas and come back every year. Very few care to mention this when they talk about Mayo's perceived lack of bottle.

km79

IM SO EXCITED!!!!!!

Stoner

Game on men. That red T-shirt is in the bin.
Yop I'll be in the Cusack, regular seats this time !

Rainman16

Deleted User wrote: »

He has a great chance of winning an all ireland why the hell not?

Because he plays for Mayo. A team who don't have the mental toughness to be all Ireland champions. Physically I have no doubt Mayo have the ability, the players to win a game of football against Dublin. But this is an All Ireland final day in Croke Park and Mayo always collapse under the pressure, they don't have the mentality.

Deleted User wrote: »

After the trimming we got off Kildare in Clonmel back in March i certainly didnt think that we stood a chance of doing anything this year. Low and behold we are after breaking new ground with a threadbare squad.

Breaking new ground? There's nothing new about this situation for Mayo. They go to finals, they come home empty handed. 2012 vs Donegal, 2013 vs Dublin. The same thing will happen this year.

Deleted User wrote: »

Mayo have talented players that can hit a good day and get a run on any team. They did look vulnerable from midfield though. Id be starting Tom Parsons if he is anyway fit.

I agree. Mayo have very talented players, on their day they will beat most teams, but they won't beat this Dublin team. Dublin will be even stronger for they win over Kerry. Yesterday we saw a fantastic game of football. The two best teams in the country going head to head. Mayo don't have what it takes to beat either of them in an All Ireland final.

yop

Stoner wrote: »

Game on men. That red T-shirt is in the bin.
Yop I'll be in the Cusack, regular seats this time !

A1, might meet ya for a shandy, I don't do beer! We can beat 20 shades of shiu9te out of each other at 1/2 time!

I will revert to hating the Dubs again now for the next 3 weeks!

Rainman16

yop wrote: »

More of a chance than you and your boys have! #Bitterpill


And as TippGunner said is fully logical. Its all on the day and the bounce of a ball, as we found out already in one AI, could be all that it takes.

Who are my boys exactly?

On the day Mayo will show up with the best of intentions, but they will be outclassed by Dublin in every are of the pitch. If I was to make a prediction now. I'd say Dublin by 6 or 7 points.

yop

Rainman16 wrote: »

Who are my boys exactly?

On the day Mayo will show up with the best of intentions, but they will be outclassed by Dublin in every are of the pitch. If I was to make a prediction now. I'd say Dublin by 6 or 7 points.

Whats "are"? Can you predict the lotto numbers also?

Blud

Match ups for the final are going to be key. From Mayo’s point of view, I’d be looking for something like this:

Dublin full forward line:

Connolly full forward – Keegan has to take him again
Rock and Brogan in the corners – Harrison as one corner and I reckon Barrett might be called in for the other – if Barrett is going well in training then I’d have him pick up Brogan.

Our best way of beating Dublin is to run at them, so Higgins has to come out of the full back line. Might be a risky move, but has to be done I think.

Dubs half forward line:

Flynn – probably Durcan to pick him up.
McM – Boyle
Klikenny – Higgins to start this side, but helped out by McLoughlin sweeping back to let Higgins make runs forward

Midfield:

MDMA – Vaughan has to start to pick MDMA up, we don’t have any other midfielder with the athleticism required. MDMA does run out of steam a bit, Parsons to come in when that happens
Fenton – SOS

Our half forward line:

DOC – probably have him on McCarthy’s wing, hopefully stop McCarthy from making too many runs forward
AOS – will be key, reasons mentioned below
KMcL – to drop back as sweeper, probably meaning Small will pick up AOS so that COS can drop deep. OK from our point of view

Full forward line:

Barry Moran – I’d stick him in there as gives us flexibility – can test the Dubs full back line like Kerry did, and can come out if needs be too. If we put him in there then I’d imagine Philly will need to take him in a similar role to what he did last year against AOS.
Andy Moran – probably picked up by Cooper. His runs out to either side can drag Cooper about a bit, which could work well for isolating Barry a bit too.
COC – probably picked up by Byrne. Would like to see him drift between full forward and half forward lines.

Key to this will be AOS and COC. When we have the ball in our half back line, I’d like to see them almost switch positions – AOS drift in close to Barry Moran, COC to make the run to win the ball deep. Our first option should be to run with the ball from deep, but COC coming out gives us a target too. AOS drifting in gives us two big men inside, with Andy alongside them making the same runs as he’s been making all year. Dublin again showed yesterday that they don’t like being ran at – with Higgins, McLoughlin, Vaughan and Durcan we have some of the best runners in the game. Geaney caused a lot of problems when the ball went long too – twin targets of Barry Moran and AOS in there gives us options.

PARlance

Not a bad analysis from a club player

I don't think Barry will start in the FF line but I would bring him in when Andy is withdrawn. Starting / having Moran, Moran & O'Shea in the FF line would limit the good that Andy brings, i.e I could see it just being lumped in high to the bigger lads.

I would certainly do that with Aidan & Barry for the last 20 though.

PARlance

Let the fund raising / ticket draws begin for the clubs. €10 to enter the draw, limited to 1,000 entrants. 6* tickets up for grabs.

*1st prize is 2 free tickets, the other 4 prizes are options TO BUY a single ticket. I'm all for fundraising but for the love of god, give the other 4 tickets as free prizes rather than an option to buy.

€10,000 will be raised for the expense of 2 free tickets.

danganabu

Padkir wrote: »

I think the team should take great faith in the fact that Kerry were poor enough today, very sloppy and wasteful for much of that game and we're still only beaten by 2 points.

No idea what game you were watching to be honest, but if you are ultra critical as it seems, would you care to give an appraisal of Mayo's performance against Tipp??

Padkir

danganabu wrote: »

No idea what game you were watching to be honest, but if you are ultra critical as it seems, would you care to give an appraisal of Mayo's performance against Tipp??

Yes, no problem. Mayo were sloppy and wasteful for a lot of the game against Tipp. Howevet, the difference is that they still won.

I've never seen a kerry team cough up as many turnovers and kick poor wides or into the keepers hands as I did yesterday. Defended well enough (bar a little indiscipline with Rock punishing everything) and had one or two shining lights up front, mainly Geaney, but I stand by my statement.

danganabu

Padkir wrote: »

Yes, no problem. Mayo were sloppy and wasteful for a lot of the game against Tipp. Howevet, the difference is that they still won.

I've never seen a kerry team cough up as many turnovers and kick poor wides or into the keepers hands as I did yesterday. Defended well enough (bar a little indiscipline with Rock punishing everything) and had one or two shining lights up front, mainly Geaney, but I stand by my statement.

We were clearly watching two different games so, what Dublin and Kerry produced yesterday was light years way from anything Mayo have played this year.

Robeman

danganabu wrote: »

Be fair now, he went to the whole effort of opening a new account just for this topic, be only fair if we were to hear him out

You need to check your facts before you make incorrect statements.

Robeman

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

So you're not going to elaborate? Just throw out wild generalizations and populist bs? As i thought.

Please tell me specifically where my logic \ arguements wrong and I can debate point. Saying they are generalisations and populist bs is actually a generalisation in itself.

PARlance

danganabu wrote: »

We were clearly watching two different games so, what Dublin and Kerry produced yesterday was light years way from anything Mayo have played this year.

Kerry didn't play for the first 20-25 mins. They were shocking.
They rallied and scored 2-3 in 10 mins before HT.
They never hit top gear in the 2nd half, O'Sullivan was a big loss.


That's pretty much how Mayo have played this year, in patches. Small patches.

flasher0030

Padkir wrote: »

Yes, no problem. Mayo were sloppy and wasteful for a lot of the game against Tipp. Howevet, the difference is that they still won.

I've never seen a kerry team cough up as many turnovers and kick poor wides or into the keepers hands as I did yesterday. Defended well enough (bar a little indiscipline with Rock punishing everything) and had one or two shining lights up front, mainly Geaney, but I stand by my statement.

Kerry were playing Dublin, Mayo were playing Tipperary. You're saying that both Mayo and Kerry were sloppy and wasteful, but the difference is that Mayo won - and therefore there is a shining light somewhere. Have you at all considered the difference in the quality of the opposition - Dublin versus Tipperary. Your post is illogical. You can't equate them. The 2 semi finals are miles apart in terms of quality.

Padkir

flasher0030 wrote: »

Kerry were playing Dublin, Mayo were playing Tipperary. You're saying that both Mayo and Kerry were sloppy and wasteful, but the difference is that Mayo won - and therefore there is a shining light somewhere. Have you at all considered the difference in the quality of the opposition - Dublin versus Tipperary. Your post is illogical. You can't equate them. The 2 semi finals are miles apart in terms of quality.

I never said it was a shining light. I never wanted to compare the two.

I made the point that Kerry were sloppy and wasteful and the only response offered was to refer me back to Mayo's performances this year, which had nothing to do with it.

Westernyelp

flasher0030 wrote: »

Kerry were playing Dublin, Mayo were playing Tipperary. You're saying that both Mayo and Kerry were sloppy and wasteful, but the difference is that Mayo won - and therefore there is a shining light somewhere. Have you at all considered the difference in the quality of the opposition - Dublin versus Tipperary. Your post is illogical. You can't equate them. The 2 semi finals are miles apart in terms of quality.

We couldn't play Dublin though could we? it was Tipp who were there. If Dublin Where we would have had to up our game Accordingly.
Some people believe we have that step up in us, Some people don't. We won't find out until Sept 18th

danganabu

Padkir wrote: »

I never said it was a shining light. I never wanted to compare the two.

I made the point that Kerry were sloppy and wasteful and the only response offered was to refer me back to Mayo's performances this year, which had nothing to do with it.

You were the one who inferred that Kerry's apparent wastefulness would give Mayo great heart, you were the one who made the connection

Coillte_Bhoy

Robeman wrote: »

Please tell me specifically where my logic \ arguements wrong and I can debate point. Saying they are generalisations and populist bs is actually a generalisation in itself.

Ok seeing as im bored.

too often they have allowed Croke Park to treat Mayo as a second class county. Too often they have demonstrated that they don't know what is going on and what they should be doing.

On what occasions have Mayo been treated as a second class county.

these is bland waffle, could you elaborate how they demonstrated that they don't know what is going on and what they should be doing

Padkir

danganabu wrote: »

You were the one who inferred that Kerry's apparent wastefulness would give Mayo great heart, you were the one who made the connection

Yes, because they got close to Dublin without playing well very well. I never said mayos performance against Tipp was better than kerry performance against dublin. My thought process was that Dublin aren't some all conquering beast who hammered a great kerry team and mayo shouldn't fear them.

Or am I not allowed say that as a mayo fan? We're supposed to be withdrawn and reserved and be accused of having a defeatist attitude, right...?

Kerry were sloppy and wasteful against dublin. Agree or disagree?

Blud

danganabu wrote: »

You were the one who inferred that Kerry's apparent wastefulness would give Mayo great heart, you were the one who made the connection

Kerry were wasteful and still came very close to winning. A less wasteful Kerry would have won the game. Therefore, Mayo can take heart that Dublin are beatable.

These aren't difficult connections to make from his post. You're the one that brought Tipperary into it, which is irrelevant to the point he was making.

No wonder you've used the confused emoticon, it appears you have confused yourself.

Blud

PARlance wrote: »

Not a bad analysis from a club player

I don't think Barry will start in the FF line but I would bring him in when Andy is withdrawn. Starting / having Moran, Moran & O'Shea in the FF line would limit the good that Andy brings, i.e I could see it just being lumped in high to the bigger lads.

I would certainly do that with Aidan & Barry for the last 20 though.

Yes doing it for the last 20 could work too, but worth bearing in mind that Dublin generally kick on in that period of the game lately. I'd rather be out in front at that stage, hence a preference for going that route early on.

Robeman

seligehgit wrote: »

I'm all for constructive criticism but your rather simplistic opinion seems to boil down to an unfair blame it all on the Mayo County Board argument.Our failures have been well documented and analysed,they are undoubtedly of a multi factorial nature.

When you are the boss the buck stops with you. Simple yes. True yes in any serious organisation. Our failures have never been properly documented in a factual manner. They have been discussed in the media, in the pub and in a million conversations but there have never been any factual independent examination of and open reporting of why we have failed so often. The Mayo Board is rarely open and transparent.

Your argument that we have the same of talent to draw from as Kerry on the basis of population is laughable.We quite possibly have a similiar pool of players to draw from but have not been blessed with a similiar pool of talented players down through the years.We went from 1969 to 1981 without a Connacht title.

Rather than ridiculing my analysis give me better logic. Kerry men do not start out with any special physical or mental attributes that Mayo men do not have and the playing population is similar. Therefore they must be trained and managed in a better manner than Mayo to be so much more successful. To do this I suggest that they have a more skillful county board.

We were particularly lucky to have a talented group in 1996/1997 but for the famous Colm Coyle effort that eluded John Madden,lady luck might have ensured we might not be having this conversation.

Luck is never anything to do with it. Losing one or two might be down to luck but not 7. Meath were a better team and they had a better manager. The same statement applies to all 7 losing teams and their managers. The best team have the best manager and they always win. If Mayo win next month they will be the best team and SR the best Mgr this year.

As of the dawn of James Horan's era we have been blessed with a group of footballers who are most talented in my living memory and quite possibly since 1951.Mayo is not alone amongst counties who have footballers with an ego,aggro occurs at some level in many camps and can be a positive energy.It has been no hindrance thus far,far too many individuals ready to knock same amateur players or spread unfounded salacious tales.I'd be inclined to cut these players you speak of a little slack,they are amateur players who get little in return but a lot of unwarranted criticism whilst giving many of us a lot of joy.

I would agree that we have had above average talented players these past few years and in JH we had an above average Mgr by Mayo standards but no All Ireland no not as good as teams \ Mgrs of counties that won in this period. There is nothing wrong with plenty of confidence, aggro, ambition so long as the team comes first. With ego it is all about me me me and not the team. As regards unfounded salacious tales I agree but what about the true salacious tales ?

Most players are amateur and deserve some slack but there is a minority in Mayo who are getting more than others in terms of reward. Interestingly I read that Dublin players pool "reward" opportunities to ensure that no resentment builds up.

The jury will judge Stephen Rochford on the basis of the final,thus far his ability to bring a certain solidity to the defence with the sweeper system or de facto full backs are innovative and have brought success.We have lost a bit of our attacking flair but if we get the right result on September 18th he'll be crowned the High King of Mayo.

The jury will judge SR on his record this year which will be 1/1 or 0/1. Even if he loses we will look favourably on him so long as we do not subsequently learn that he was not actually in charge but the players were. For some players if we win it will be 1/5 or 0/5. The rewards will be better if they win as they will be considered gods but if they lose they will be considered in the end arrogent bottlers.

I would certainly like to see Tom Parsons start the next day and I'm struggling to see how Jason Doherty can hold down his starting position based on his last two outings.

Yes down through the years the County Board have got many things wrong,many would have had sympathy with Micky Moran after he was removed in 2006,ditto the process around the appointment of Noel Connelly and Pat Holmes was less than satisfactory,maybe they got it right...the costs implications of the alternative management option were too onerous.James Horan had many battles with the County Board.However it is unfair to suggest that the County Board does not have the best interests of Mayo football at it's heart.I do not believe in the current setup that under circumstances would any stone be left unturned to give Stephen Rochford the resources he needs to get the job finally done.

Cannot disagree with the above the county board always has good intentions. It just screwed in all of the sagas you mentioned plus in the change of manager this year.

Look at any of the other GAA fora,fans from all many of counties are oftentimes complaining about similiar issues in relation to their county boards.The much malaligned Cork County Boards/administrator Frank Murphy over decades did not prove a hindrance to many hurling and indeed football titles.

Cork GAA are the biggest county in GAA in terms of clubs (even bigger than Dublin I believe). They are probably the only county that comes close to Mayo in terms of screwing up their football teams and also their hurling teams due entirely to a dysfunctional board and admin set up.

Nobody is kidding ourselves that all is rosy in the garden,have you been around the environs of Mayo since the semi final?Many are very pessimistic,fearful of believing and reluctant to travel!I can guarantee you they will still all travel in their thousands..knowing deep down the tears will flow like rivers if a seemingly timeless burden is lifted by Cillian lifting Sam Maguire.We can but dream.

I am detecting a lot of negative sentiment and even anger against this team and the big egos within it. There is not the same level of uncritical support that there was for every previous final from 89. For every other final it was tickets tickets tickets, this time many are openly saying they are not going.

This team may win in which case they will be forgiven for what they have done. If they lose many of them will be villified.

All Irelands are won and lost for many reasons,primarily it's down to a group of 20 players on the pitch....talent and ability,luck,good management decisions.In our case it primarily comes down to a belief amongst the players that they are good enough.I certainly believe they are good enough if they finally play to their potential on an All Ireland final day.A supportive county board and public are essential.Constructive criticism is all and well but criticism for the sake of it....

Apart from "luck" I agree with you. So long as the group of players put the team first.

danganabu

Blud wrote: »

Kerry were wasteful and still came very close to winning. A less wasteful Kerry would have won the game. Therefore, Mayo can take heart that Dublin are beatable.

These aren't difficult connections to make from his post. You're the one that brought Tipperary into it, which is irrelevant to the point he was making.

No wonder you've used the confused emoticon, it appears you have confused yourself.

Thanks for the clarification :rolleyes:

My point being that yes Dublin were beatable by Kerry, not in a million years by this Mayo team.

Robeman

seligehgit wrote: »

I'm all for constructive criticism but your rather simplistic opinion seems to boil down to an unfair blame it all on the Mayo County Board argument.Our failures have been well documented and analysed,they are undoubtedly of a multi factorial nature.

Your argument that we have the same of talent to draw from as Kerry on the basis of population is laughable.We quite possibly have a similiar pool of players to draw from but have not been blessed with a similiar pool of talented players down through the years.We went from 1969 to 1981 without a Connacht title.

We were particularly lucky to have a talented group in 1996/1997 but for the famous Colm Coyle effort that eluded John Madden,lady luck might have ensured we might not be having this conversation.

As of the dawn of James Horan's era we have been blessed with a group of footballers who are most talented in my living memory and quite possibly since 1951.Mayo is not alone amongst counties who have footballers with an ego,aggro occurs at some level in many camps and can be a positive energy.It has been no hindrance thus far,far too many individuals ready to knock same amateur players or spread unfounded salacious tales.I'd be inclined to cut these players you speak of a little slack,they are amateur players who get little in return but a lot of unwarranted criticism whilst giving many of us a lot of joy.

Most players are amateur and deserve some slack but there is a minority in Mayo who are getting more than others in terms of reward. Interestingly I read that Dublin players pool "reward" opportunities to ensure that no resentment builds up.

The jury will judge Stephen Rochford on the basis of the final,thus far his ability to bring a certain solidity to the defence with the sweeper system or de facto full backs are innovative and have brought success.We have lost a bit of our attacking flair but if we get the right result on September 18th he'll be crowned the High King of Mayo.

I would certainly like to see Tom Parsons start the next day and I'm struggling to see how Jason Doherty can hold down his starting position based on his last two outings.

Yes down through the years the County Board have got many things wrong,many would have had sympathy with Micky Moran after he was removed in 2006,ditto the process around the appointment of Noel Connelly and Pat Holmes was less than satisfactory,maybe they got it right...the costs implications of the alternative management option were too onerous.James Horan had many battles with the County Board.However it is unfair to suggest that the County Board does not have the best interests of Mayo football at it's heart.I do not believe in the current setup that under circumstances would any stone be left unturned to give Stephen Rochford the resources he needs to get the job finally done.

Look at any of the other GAA fora,fans from all many of counties are oftentimes complaining about similiar issues in relation to their county boards.The much malaligned Cork County Boards/administrator Frank Murphy over decades did not prove a hindrance to many hurling and indeed football titles.

Nobody is kidding ourselves that all is rosy in the garden,have you been around the environs of Mayo since the semi final?Many are very pessimistic,fearful of believing and reluctant to travel!I can guarantee you they will still all travel in their thousands..knowing deep down the tears will flow like rivers if a seemingly timeless burden is lifted by Cillian lifting Sam Maguire.We can but dream.

All Irelands are won and lost for many reasons,primarily it's down to a group of 20 players on the pitch....talent and ability,luck,good management decisions.In our case it primarily comes down to a belief amongst the players that they are good enough.I certainly believe they are good enough if they finally play to their potential on an All Ireland final day.A supportive county board and public are essential.Constructive criticism is all and well but criticism for the sake of it....

When you are the boss the buck stops with you. Simple yes. True yes in any serious organisation. Mayo's failures have never been properly documented in a factual manner. They have been discussed in the media, in the pub and in a million conversations but there have never been any factual independent examination of and open reporting of why we have failed so often. The Mayo Board is rarely open and transparent.

Rather than ridiculing my analysis give me better logic. Kerry men do not start out with any special physical or mental attributes that Mayo men do not have and the playing population is similar. Therefore they must be trained and managed in a better manner than Mayo to be so much more successful. To do this I suggest that they have a more skillful county board.

Luck is rarely anything to do with winning and losing. Losing one or two might be down to luck but not 7. Meath were a better team and they had a better manager. The same statement applies to all 7 winning teams and their managers. The best team have the best manager and they always win. If Mayo win next month they will be the best team and SR the best Mgr this year.

I would agree that we have had above average talented players these past few years and in JH we had an above average Mgr by Mayo standards but no All Ireland no not as good as teams \ Mgrs of counties that won in this period. There is nothing wrong with plenty of confidence, aggro, ambition so long as the team comes first. With ego it is all about me me me and not the team. As regards unfounded salacious tales I agree but what about the true salacious tales ?

The jury will judge SR on his record this year which will be 1/1 or 0/1. Even if he loses we will look favourably on him so long as we do not subsequently learn that he was not actually in charge but the players were. For some players if we win it will be 1/5 or 0/5. The rewards will be better if they win as they will be considered gods but if they lose they will be considered in the end arrogent bottlers.

Cannot disagree with the above re Board. The county board always has good intentions. It just screwed up in all of the sagas you mentioned plus in the change of manager this year.

Cork GAA are the biggest county in GAA in terms of clubs (even bigger than Dublin I believe). They are probably the only county that comes close to Mayo in terms of screwing up their football teams and also their hurling teams due entirely to a dysfunctional board and admin set up.

I am detecting a lot of negative sentiment and even anger against this team and the big egos within it. There is not the same level of uncritical support that there was for every previous final from 89. For every other final it was tickets tickets tickets, this time many are openly saying they are not going.

This team may win in which case they will be forgiven for what they have done. If they lose many of them will be villified.


Apart from "luck" I agree with your final comments. So long as the group of players put the team first.

PARlance

danganabu wrote: »

Thanks for the clarification :rolleyes:

My point being that yes Dublin were beatable by Kerry, not in a million years by this Mayo team.

The 1,000,065 year curse! It has felt like that already.

Robeman

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

Ok seeing as im bored.



On what occasions have Mayo been treated as a second class county.

these is bland waffle, could you elaborate how they demonstrated that they don't know what is going on and what they should be doing

Being told to play an all ireland semi in Limerick which apart from not being Croke Park is in Munster right beside Kerry.

danganabu

PARlance wrote: »

The 1,000,065 year curse! It has felt like that already.

Believe me I would love nothing more that to see Mayo win, but someone trying to take comfort from yesterday's game is being fanciful at best.