Jan and Klodi's Party Bus - part II **off topic discussion**

CramCycle

Tenzor07 wrote: »

All valid points of course, my overall point is that the allowance is too low..

It's almost e200 lower than the UK

Also most people spend well under the 1000, making the cost of the bike around say e600

Not everyone gets the option to pay it off by the month either, self employed have to pay the full lump sum upfront...

Weepsie wrote: »

It isn't too low. You can get plenty of bike for ?1000, but it does need to be more inclusive for lower income earners and it needs to be less restrictive (including for self employed) and those third party voucher folk should not be allowed be used as they take a 10% cut.

It's not a scheme to get you to be able to get yourself a brand new racing bike every year, it's to promote commuting by bike

I didn't think self employed people qualified for the scheme at all, but they can make a tax deductible purchase if it is for work purposes the bike was bought (not a tax expert though).

Agree with you about the e-bikes but it still should not be annual. I would very much be in favour of an expansion of the scheme to have a higher allowance for e-bikes and cargo bikes, although I fear that might lead to abuse. This said, it is the first time you have mentioned an e-bike. For regular bicycles, 1000euro is a reasonable limit.

I still completely disagree with your statement on annually, it seems preposterous to even suggest.

Tenzor07

CramCycle wrote: »

I didn't think self employed people qualified for the scheme at all, but they can make a tax deductible purchase if it is for work purposes the bike was bought (not a tax expert though).
Agree with you about the e-bikes but it still should not be annual. I would very much be in favour of an expansion of the scheme to have a higher allowance for e-bikes and cargo bikes, although I fear that might lead to abuse. This said, it is the first time you have mentioned an e-bike. For regular bicycles, 1000euro is a reasonable limit.
I still completely disagree with your statement on annually, it seems preposterous to even suggest.

Well hey, I threw it out there for debate and it looks like that's worked..Maybe not annually but biennially perhaps.

The point about it being too low for a bike is still valid.. an E-Bike is still a bike and would be a more attractive option for a lot of people who have no interest in cycling and wouldn't even consider themselves cyclists, but just want a way to beat the morning traffic.. Hardly fair that they have to stump up an extra e1000 for a basic ebike.

Tenzor07

Weepsie wrote: »

Take it up with ebike sellers and argue that their prices are too high. Unless you have a specific need, one which an ebike would really benefit, then the allowance is fine as is.

I don't think so!

Yes, I want to carry my laptop and clothes to work etc and not arrive half exhausted from all the pedalling...

Fighting Tao

Tenzor07 wrote: »

I don't think so!

Yes, I want to carry my laptop and clothes to work etc and not arrive half exhausted from all the pedalling...

Don't cycle so fast then. The faster and harder you pedal the more you'll sweat. Restrain your pedalling and use the gears so you don't sweat as much.

Tenzor07

Fighting Tao wrote: »

Don't cycle so fast then. The faster and harder you pedal the more you'll sweat. Restrain your pedalling and use the gears so you don't sweat as much.

Nah, i'll drive so, quicker cos i'm not pedalling so fast... :pac:

rubadub

Skrynesaver wrote: »

Perhaps expand the scheme to allow replacement parts be bought under it rather than just a new bike,

Stolen bikes would be a big one to be addressed, I wonder how many bikes bought on the scheme have been stolen before the 5 years was up. Not sure how they could handle bogus claims, maybe you have to officially register with the gardai which I think some already do, and then have to formally declare it stolen etc.

I think its crazy that you cannot buy parts along with the bike. If parts etc were allowed you could possibly buy vouchers in advance "only to be used for consumable parts" listing tyres, chains, cassettes etc.

I am surprised E bikes are not pushed more, as said already a decent one is well over ?1000. Just a week or so ago someone not really into bikes was trying to tell me the limit was increased to ?2k and they did not think that was high (this is the type of person who I would expect to have trotted out the old faithful "jaysus, you could have bought a car with that!" line when told what my bike cost)

Tenzor07

rubadub wrote: »

I am surprised E bikes are not pushed more, as said already a decent one is well over ?1000. Just a week or so ago someone not really into bikes was trying to tell me the limit was increased to ?2k and they did not think that was high (this is the type of person who I would expect to have trotted out the old faithful "jaysus, you could have bought a car with that!" line when told what my bike cost)

Ebikes are increasing sales a lot in The Netherlands... and cost a lot more than the average e600 Dutch bike:

http://www.bike-eu.com/sales-trends/nieuws/2016/4/huge-growth-in-dutch-e-bike-sales-in-2015-10126019

Fighting Tao

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Nah, i'll drive so, quicker cos i'm not pedalling so fast... :pac:

You could always try the work header to earn more method in order to afford an e-bike

CramCycle

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Ebikes are increasing sales a lot in The Netherlands... and cost a lot more than the average e600 Dutch bike:

While e bikes are generally more expensive, it is not impossible to pick them up for between 1000 and 2000euro. Easy Motion in Dublin have a range starting at 1000euro. Halfords start at 600euro.

magicbastarder

Chuchote wrote: »

Really? I knew a lot of cars were diesel, but the vast majority? Not contradicting, just asking.

i think a few years ago, nearly 90% of cars sold in ireland were diesels. it's dropped back down to about 60% (both figures from a mechanic i was talking to).
too many people were sold diesels, who only use them to run down the shops or drop the kids to school, which is a very inefficient use of diesel, and can begin to cause problems if the car is not used for more than 15 minutes at a time.

buffalo

Tenzor07 wrote: »

I will agree to disagree with you!

?1000 is too low, so what if I want to buy an E-Bike for getting to work? Sure a reasonable one would cost double the allowance!

And you're going to buy a new e-bike every year?

Lusk_Doyle

buffalo wrote: »

My hypothesis

I postulate

Words of the day toilet paper FTW!

Wishbone Ash

Weepsie wrote: »

The text and picture in this ad for wheels made me chuckle

http://www.adverts.ie/bike-wheels/hed-carbon-tt-race-wheels/11938654

LOL

(As an aside, an 8 speed freewheel on carbon wheels - he's looking at a very limited market).

Chuchote

Tenzor07 wrote: »

The point about it being too low for a bike is still valid.. an E-Bike is still a bike and would be a more attractive option for a lot of people who have no interest in cycling and wouldn't even consider themselves cyclists, but just want a way to beat the morning traffic.. Hardly fair that they have to stump up an extra e1000 for a basic ebike.

An e-bike isn't a bicycle, it's essentially a motorbike. Part of the purpose of the Bike-to-Work scheme is to reduce obesity and increase fitness in the population. An e-bike doesn't fulfil that purpose. Shouldn't be part of the scheme.

It might be that there's a case for a separate scheme where people too disabled to cycle but capable of sitting up on an e-bike and steering it could get funding under their disability allowance to buy one.

Idleater

Chuchote wrote: »

An e-bike isn't a bicycle, it's essentially a motorbike. Part of the purpose of the Bike-to-Work scheme is to reduce obesity and increase fitness in the population. An e-bike doesn't fulfil that purpose. Shouldn't be part of the scheme.

It might be that there's a case for a separate scheme where people too disabled to cycle but capable of sitting up on an e-bike and steering it could get funding under their disability allowance to buy one.

Do you know how ebikes differ from motorcycles? You *do* need to pedal, they are pedal-assisted. Who are you to decide that someone who has an ebike is just fat and lazy?

Here's the full purpose that you selectively quoted from:

revenue wrote:

What is the purpose of the scheme?
The purpose of the scheme is to encourage more employees to cycle to and from work, or between work places, thereby contributing to lowering carbon emissions, reducing traffic congestion and improving health and fitness levels.

Chuchote

Idleater wrote: »

Who are you to decide that someone who has an ebike is just fat and lazy?

Your interpretation, not my words. The purpose of the Bike-to-Work scheme is to combat obesity and increase healthiness. That's not to say that everyone who uses an e-bike is fat and lazy. It is, though, to say that getting people cycling for health (and to cut the country's carbon footprint) is the purpose of the scheme.

cc

The pedal assist gradually reduces power and cuts off at 25kph. It's pedal assist, so you still have to work BTW.

On my 12 km return commute I average between 27-28kph about 85% of this is me alone with no assist. The pedal assist is great for getting away at red lights quickly and up to speed fast. The way I see it the more ebikes on the road the more advocates there will be for proper cycling infrastructure.

rubadub

Chuchote wrote: »

An e-bike isn't a bicycle, it's essentially a motorbike. Part of the purpose of the Bike-to-Work scheme is to reduce obesity and increase fitness in the population. An e-bike doesn't fulfil that purpose.

If you have found an e-bike which is not likely to increase fitness then it's likely that it is indeed a motorbike and illegal to ride without tax & insurance.

magicbastarder

someone once explained - i think on this forum - that the reason the government can't drop VAT rates on bike related goods is down to EU rules that they must stay at the rate they were when we joined the EU. can someone confirm this, or have i been having really exciting dreams again?

LollipopJimmy

cc wrote: »

The pedal assist gradually reduces power and cuts off at 25kph. It's pedal assist, so you still have to work BTW.

On my 12 km return commute I average between 27-28kph about 85% of this is me alone with no assist. The pedal assist is great for getting away at red lights quickly and up to speed fast. The way I see it the more ebikes on the road the more advocates there will be for proper cycling infrastructure.

Had a chat with a lad on an ebike a while back after a dart along the canal. He said he was 'bollixed' keeping up with me. Certainly looked like he'd had a workout

Tenzor07

Chuchote wrote: »

An e-bike isn't a bicycle, it's essentially a motorbike.
e-bike and steering it could get funding under their disability allowance to buy one.

Christ! I expect clogs to be thrown at Ebike cyclists after those comments!!

You do know what an E-Bike is right?

Though at the weekend I saw this dude on a pedal-assist motorcycle going along the road at less than 30kph i'd say, the bike he was on looked like a v small moped, only with pedals, no licence plate and the rider had no motorcycle helmet... Wouldn't say it was purchased in Ireland either...

tomasrojo

I've never used an e-bike, but they have great potential in the urgent need to decarbonise transport.

I've always assumed they have a considerably lower carbon footprint than a motorbike because they're lighter and are largely human-powered (or maybe 50-50?). Also, as the grid decarbonises, the carbon footprint of e-bikes goes down. That just leaves the rare elements required for the battery. Not sure how that works out practically.

Alek

Whats the cost of servicing a suspension fork in Dublin? Does it make economical sense at all to service a mid-low range one - Rockshox XC30?

There is nothing wrong with it as far as I can see, but I would like to replace the fluid and seals as I got it 2nd hand.

Tenzor07

Alek wrote: »

Whats the cost of servicing a suspension fork in Dublin? Does it make economical sense at all to service a mid-low range one - Rockshox XC30?
There is nothing wrong with it as far as I can see, but I would like to replace the fluid and seals as I got it 2nd hand.

Take it to Expert cycles, they will get it running like new: http://www.expertcycles.ie/suspension-servicing/

Lusk_Doyle

Tenzor07 wrote: »

You do know what an E-Bike is right?

Well, if an E-Cigarette is anything to go by, then...

Fighting Tao

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Christ! I expect clogs to be thrown at Ebike cyclists after those comments!!

You do know what an E-Bike is right?

Though at the weekend I saw this dude on a pedal-assist motorcycle going along the road at less than 30kph i'd say, the bike he was on looked like a v small moped, only with pedals, no licence plate and the rider had no motorcycle helmet... Wouldn't say it was purchased in Ireland either...

I wonder if I passed the same guy today. Over the east link southbound. Never pedalled and was doing a very steady 30kph. It was definitely a battery powered bike and had pedals but he never pedalled once. The make of bike was Pride.

Chuchote

magicbastarder wrote: »

someone once explained - i think on this forum - that the reason the government can't drop VAT rates on bike related goods is down to EU rules that they must stay at the rate they were when we joined the EU. can someone confirm this, or have i been having really exciting dreams again?

Exciting dreams, I think - don't the government re-set some VAT rates often during Budget?

rubadub

An e-bike isn't a bicycle, it's essentially a motorbike... Shouldn't be part of the scheme.

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Though at the weekend I saw this dude on a pedal-assist motorcycle going along the road at less than 30kph i'd say, the bike he was on looked like a v small moped, only with pedals, no licence plate and the rider had no motorcycle helmet... Wouldn't say it was purchased in Ireland either...

Fighting Tao wrote: »

Never pedalled and was doing a very steady 30kph. It was definitely a battery powered bike and had pedals but he never pedalled once.

If they are not pedalling yet getting assistance then the bikes are not included in the BTW scheme, and likely need tax & insurance.

CantGetNoSleep

Chuchote wrote: »

Exciting dreams, I think - don't the government re-set some VAT rates often during Budget?

He was correct in fact, the government can't reduce the rates. They have the power to set the VAT rate (must be above 15%) and then they can have two reduced rates, but must be for goods or services listed in the VAT Directive (ebikes are not listed afaik).

magicbastarder

that said, i read (in the irish times report card on various ministers) that leo varadkar was able to reduce the VAT rate for 'tourist services'; how does this differ from adding cycling related equipment to the lower rates?