WhoWillGo poll : Marmion vs Boss

connachta

Some people are getting tired of the debate about 3rd scrum-half for RWC
And I'm tired of the peremptory judgements over this case

So it's now a needed dedicated poll thread

Buer

You need help.

connachta

Buer wrote: »

You need help.

I know it's an ironic remark from you, but help me to advocate for Marmion, yes thanks:D

.ak

I'm disappointed Paul Marshall isn't on the poll.

errlloyd

We need a: Who should be included in the who should go poll poll.

aimee1

it would be hilarious if neither went

Fireball07

errlloyd wrote: »

We need a: Who should be included in the who should go poll poll.

I nominate Peter Stringer.

BBDBB

Stringer as the bolter!

you heard it here first

Buer

Why isn't John Cooney listed? Surely the first choice Connacht scrum half should be in the mix?!

thomond2006

The 3rd choice nine isn't that big of a deal. Murray stays fit, Murray starts.

thebaz

thomond2006 wrote: »

The 3rd choice nine isn't that big of a deal. Murray stays fit, Murray starts.

agree ,

a year a go, I would have Marmion go , but his progress has stalled recently - so Boss for experience should go , if a third SH is needed.

.ak

Unless Reddan starts...

thomond2006

thebaz wrote: »

agree ,

a year a go, I would have Marmion go , but his progress has stalled recently - so Boss for experience should go , if a third SH is needed.

No he shouldn't go because of experience. For the same reason ROG shouldn't have played in the 2013 Six Nations. Experience cannot compensate for poor form.

thebaz

thomond2006 wrote: »

No he shouldn't go because of experience. For the same reason ROG shouldn't have played in the 2013 Six Nations. Experience cannot compensate for poor form.

Sorry , but Boss form is better than Marmion - and experience does count for much , regardless of what you think - especially at 9 or 10

thomond2006

thebaz wrote: »

Sorry , but Boss form is better than Marmion - and experience does count for much , regardless of what you think - especially at 9 or 10

Experience counts but it can't always compensate. D'Arcy is a good example of it.

Well I hope Marmion features next weekend and we'll see what happens from there. Boss was poor against Scotland. The box kicks. The box kicks.



Anywho unless someone gets hurt this isn't a decision that will have a material impact on Ireland's performance.

Yeah_Right

What about the option of Madigan or Jones being the 3rd halfback?!

davegrohl48

Tony Ward should get casting vote. Schools scrum halfs would be by their mobiles waiting the call.

connachta

thebaz wrote: »

Sorry , but Boss form is better than Marmion

Good joke

total former

errlloyd wrote: »

We need a: Who should be included in the who should go poll poll.

I'd rather a "dear god make it stop" option in the poll tbh.

CatFromHue

I think people forget that Boss finished last season pretty well, he did end up Leinster's first choice after the 6N for all the big games.

connachta

CatFromHue wrote: »

I think people forget that Boss finished last season pretty well, he did end up Leinster's first choice after the 6N for all the big games.

I think poeple forget the RWC is now and not 4 months ago, and that's Marmion who's in form

CatFromHue

How do you know he's in form?

They've only played a part in 1 warm up match each.

connachta

CatFromHue wrote: »

How do you know he's in form?

They've only played a part in 1 warm up match each.

Castres+Munster. I know some are scornful about those game, I'm not. He's a SH, not a prop, his abilities are seeable even with a not-100% opposition

.ak

connachta wrote: »

Castres+Munster. I know some are scornful about those game, I'm not. He's a SH, not a prop, his abilities are seeable even with a not-100% opposition

Every player is measured by their opposition, even scrum halves. If the pack are having it easy the scrum half will look good.

CatFromHue

connachta wrote: »

Castres+Munster. I know some are scornful about those game, I'm not. He's a SH, not a prop, his abilities are seeable even with a not-100% opposition

I would be a bit scornful.

At Connacht he's asked to do 1,2,3 but for Ireland he could be asked to do 2,3,4,5.

Playing well for a club team doesn't mean you'll also play well for an International team.

Squidgy Black

Luke McGrath had a great game against Ulster so surely he should go by your logic? :rolleyes:

This is the most pointless argument we've seen on here, Marmion played an absolute nightmare for the Wolfhounds, is being pushed for the starting spot in Connacht by John Cooney, and only got 10 minutes in the death of a warm up game.

So much commotion over a 3rd choice SH....

OldRio

Fireball07 wrote: »

I nominate Peter Stringer.

I'd have him in the squad in a heartbeat.

CatFromHue

Even more bad news Connachta.......Alan Quinlan didn't pick Marmion in his RWC squad :O

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/world-cup/alan-quinlan-my-31man-world-cup-squad-with-dave-kearney-darcy-and-moore-among-the-casualties-31469595.html

connachta

CatFromHue wrote: »

Even more bad news Connachta.......Alan Quinlan didn't pick Marmion in his RWC squad :O

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/world-cup/alan-quinlan-my-31man-world-cup-squad-with-dave-kearney-darcy-and-moore-among-the-casualties-31469595.html

Counter-attack in the Examiner :

Schmidt gets World Cup nudge from Kieran Marmion





Munster 12 Connacht 28: Connacht scrum-half Kieran Marmion could hardly be blamed for feeling more than a little aggrieved last week when he was released back to Connacht by Ireland head coach Joe Schmidt without having had a reasonable chance to press his claims for a place in Ireland’s



To his credit, he didn’t give up hope of convincing Schmiodt of the error of his ways and saw last night’s friendly against Munster at Thomond Park as the ideal opportunity to press his claims. The Welsh-born Marmion didn’t delay in reminding the Irish management of the threat he presents around the fringes of ruck and scrum as he scampered over in typical fashion for a superbly taken try after seventeen minutes and repeated the act shortly afterwards.
Marmion was largely responsible for Connacht’s decisive 28-12 victory in a game that began brightly enough but deteriorate badly as the game went on with a penalty try the only score in the entire second half.
Joe Schmidt was in Belfast watching Ulster and Leinster but Ireland forwards coach Simon Easterby was an interested spectator in Thomond Park’s east stand and will assuredly be advising the boss of Marmion’s opportunism and very possibly suggesting that he should be edging out Isaac Boss for the third World Cup scrum-half spot behind Conor Murray and Eoin Reddan.

Larbre34

There should be an option of neither in the poll

I still think only 2 #9s will travel.

thebaz

connachta wrote: »

Good joke

no joke - i know who i'd pick right now - Marmion time will come , but he hasn't progressed over the past 6 months - fact

what is true , no one here seams to appreciate what Boss has brought to the Irish game - constantly ridiculed

connachta

thebaz wrote: »

no joke - i know who i'd pick right now - Marmion time will come , but he hasn't progressed over the past 6 months - fact

what is true , no one here seams to appreciate what Boss has brought to the Irish game - constantly ridiculed

He's got a blank period for a few months, and Boss one last gasp. That doesn't mean in any case Boss is better

aimee1

CatFromHue wrote: »

Even more bad news Connachta.......Alan Quinlan didn't pick Marmion in his RWC squad :O

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/world-cup/alan-quinlan-my-31man-world-cup-squad-with-dave-kearney-darcy-and-moore-among-the-casualties-31469595.html

if moore and trimble dont make it then white and kearney are obvious replacements. otherwise i agree with quinlan's selection.

Mc Love

Marmion should be ahead of Boss - the poll is fixed.

In saying that, St Joe is making a big mistake by not having picked Duncan Williams!

I used to be looking forward to the start of the RWC to see all the rugby and cheer for Ireland.

I'm now solely looking forward to it starting so this discussion will stop.

Zzippy

Deleted User wrote: »

I used to be looking forward to the start of the RWC to see all the rugby and cheer for Ireland.

I'm now solely looking forward to it starting so this discussion will stop.

total former wrote: »

I don't in a million years think this will happen, but it might nearly be the best outcome in terms of the board being bearable.

Getting close to backseat moderation lads. People are entitled to debate what they feel are legitimate points. Discussion has moved to this thread, which neither of you are forced to read. If you have nothing to contribute to the actual discussion, don't bother posting.

total former

Fair point, deleted.

The Rape of Lucretia

total former wrote: »

I don't in a million years think this will happen, but it might nearly be the best outcome in terms of the board being bearable.

If it were the outcome, given that Madigan would be the cover, would there be case for Murray and Marmion being the best pairing to bring. Giving the option of both Reddan and Boss to call up in the case of an injury ?
It saves a place on the bench as well, meaning you could have both Madigan and Jackson there as cover or tactical subs. Jackson, Madigan, and Zeebededooda as subs would give a lot of options.
And then Marmion could start the minnow games and play all 80 minutes.

Losty Dublin

In the RWC's of 2011, 2007 and 2003 Ireland took 3 Scrum Half's. It's the one position in the backs that is utterly unique and specialist. The cover is vital so it's pointless to suggest traveling with two.

My only thought on Marmion's release is that he needs game time to buck up. Realistically he'll only go if Boss/Reddan/Murray are injured in the next 2 weeks; if you say he'd be lucky to be asked over Williams then I'd nearly agree with you.

Witheringeye

Just a thought. I was thinking about the lions tour in 2013 and IIRC gats only brought sexton and Farrell as his two 20s and Stuart Hogg in case of emergency. I think there is a chance of neither of them making it

irishbucsfan

Witheringeye wrote: »

Just a thought. I was thinking about the lions tour in 2013 and IIRC gats only brought sexton and Farrell as his two 20s and Stuart Hogg in case of emergency. I think there is a chance of neither of them making it

Well the squad rules for the Lions are very different. Hogg could cover 10. Which other player in our squad covers 9?

I'd be shocked if Marmion or Boss are both at home.

aimee1

Witheringeye wrote: »

Just a thought. I was thinking about the lions tour in 2013 and IIRC gats only brought sexton and Farrell as his two 20s and Stuart Hogg in case of emergency. I think there is a chance of neither of them making it

and if one got injured and was out for 2 weeks there was no restrictions on call ups.

If Murray gets injured versus Italy, and is unable to play france, can we really go into that game with no reserve 9?

Yeah_Right

It's one of the big differences between the RWC and tours. On a tour the travelling team might have a few guys in country on "sponsors" duty and they will be training with the team. In the RWC this isn't allowed. Only the named 31 can train.

total former

Witheringeye wrote: »

Just a thought. I was thinking about the lions tour in 2013 and IIRC gats only brought sexton and Farrell as his two 20s and Stuart Hogg in case of emergency. I think there is a chance of neither of them making it

On this, Hogg didn't go as emergency cover, he started one (maybe two?) games.

.ak

total former wrote: »

On this, Hogg didn't go as emergency cover, he started one (maybe two?) games.

I suppose he'd be emergency cover for the tests tho.

Witheringeye

I know there are subtle differences but if Farrell had gotten injured I think Hogg would have benched so it doesn't make that much difference. I'm just saying there's precedent of a coach leaving themselves open to a small tail risk that had a major upside he majority of the time. I just don't think it can be ruled out as a possibility.
Still think boss will travel though

This post isn't about what should happen but about what I think will happen: Marmion has little or no chance of making the squad imo. He's barely been involved under Schmidt so far, not going to go to the RWC out of the blue.

smiley_face

Losty Dublin wrote: »

In the RWC's of 2011, 2007 and 2003 Ireland took 3 Scrum Half's. It's the one position in the backs that is utterly unique and specialist. The cover is vital so it's pointless to suggest traveling with two.

Australia, Samoa and Argentina have only named 2 scrumhalves,
as have Uruguay and United States.

It's a talking point, Ireland have options, Madigan covering 9 would be ideal, allowing us bring another player, possibly a 6th prop, or take Jones as fullback cover.

Anyway, point is it's not "pointless" to consider the options and debate them.

Squidgy Black

smiley_face wrote: »

It's a talking point, Ireland have options, Madigan covering 9 would be ideal, allowing us bring another player, possibly a 6th prop, or take Jones as fullback cover.

Yeah but the problem is Madigan doesn't actually play 9, he's not like Michalak or Laidlaw. Giteau can cover 9 for the Aussies.

thebaz

_Tyrrell_ wrote: »

Yeah but the problem is Madigan doesn't actually play 9, he's not like Michalak or Laidlaw. Giteau can cover 9 for the Aussies.

i think Madigan has the attributes to make a good SH - I know a WC is not the time to experiment - but, from my experience most good 10's can usualy become good 9's - 10's are usually talented ball players , the pass is usually the main issue in converting (my experience is just club level

total former

http://m.independent.ie/sport/rugby/world-cup/comment/schmidt-keeps-punters-guessing-on-world-cup-gamble-31470706.html

Brendan Fanning weighs into the two SHs discussion, concludes that it's very risky and extremely unlikely.

If there was a concrete benefit to it, then grand, but I just don't see why Joe would bother when there's little or no upside.