Is "Dublin" a real place?

syklops

TheQuietFella wrote: »

I suppose in hindsight it does!

Does that mean you've reversed your opinion on homosexuality?

BeardedBadger

My opinion on it, as an atheist, is that not believing gives us much more to live for. We can live our lives without the guilt of upsetting a god.

I'll be the first to admit that when I came to the conclusion god isn't real, it was depressing. I really have any reason to live once I believed death was final but a few years on I realise that we have much much more to live for because for an atheist there's no second chances and no coming back.

PolaroidPizza

BeardedBadger wrote: »

My opinion on it, as an atheist, is that not believing gives us much more to live for. We can live our lives without the guilt of upsetting a god.

I'll be the first to admit that when I came to the conclusion god isn't real, it was depressing. I really have any reason to live once I believed death was final but a few years on I realise that we have much much more to live for because for an atheist there's no second chances and no coming back.

I'm completely agreed. when I eventually came to terms with the fact that my time on earth was it, I began to actively make an effort to enjoy every day. Once I'm gone, I'm gone, so I have to make the most of my very brief time here, rather than hope i'll get the chance to enjoy it in an afterlife.

Drumpot

theteal wrote: »

So if there wasn't a fabricated all-seeing overlord, you'd go on a murderous rampage?

That's just scary. . .seriously

People need to become comfortable in their own skin and take responsibility for themselves. Get on with your life, be happy, make a difference and try not to be a pr!ck to anyone. Fairly simple really.

Is it really that simple? You are quite absolute in your comments. What I find is that comments like these are very practical and sound in principle but they neglect the fact that different people have specific deficiencies (emptiness inside) in their lives that others simply cannot understand. If people don't understand something they either mock or dismiss it. On the flip side people who think that this is the one life they will ever have may ruin other people's lives to enhance their own enjoyment so it's not a concept without room for destruction. But that's my point, it's not the belief but the individual with that belief and what they will use it for! the scary thing isn't atheism, it's the actions of certain people who believe the world is their oyster!

I'm not defending the concept of God or higher power, more trying to point out the hypocritical folly of your comments. If life was as easy as you suggest, we wouldn't have conflict. We wouldn't have people craving more power/money and trying to control other people. Free will comes with a price and that leads to people, having in some cases aggressively conflicting views on the same topics.

I agree with your sentiment completely that people should strive to be comfortable in their own skin. However If religion or believing in a higher being helps some people do just that i don't see why that's unhealthy. It gives them an inner peace that nothing else man made has been able to subsidise. Again, wars and atrocities are performed in the name of religion but this does not mean everything related to religion is bad.

Anybody who thinks that atheists or religious people are completely misguided/wrong will struggle to be objective on this topic. Both can make wide sweeping statements, many of which are mostly subjective and both sides will ignore what it suits them to ignore.

I would be interested to know how many people suffering from depression, anxiety, drug/ alcohol problems , workaholic etc, suffer from a crisis of spirituality. The meaning of spirituality in this case is "what's the point of life and I'm lonely why don't I feel like I fit in, in this world".

I know what it's like to be misunderstood and find society to be extremely unforgiving and inflexible towards things it cannot simply explain. I also find our society completely ignorant to its own flaws, hypocrisys and self destructive strategies. If people spent more time being objective self regulating and trying to be honest with themselves ( myself included) they wouldn't waste as much time knocking others.

kylith

Notavirus.exe wrote: »

I know the title looks insulting to atheists but I am not attacking atheist beliefs.

I respect that you don't believe in God but I don't understand how you can cope with life believing that when you die, that's it.

Because, honestly, the alternative seems a lot, lot worse than just 'not existing'.

I won't exist after I die, but I won't know anything about it so 'so what?', basically. I won't exist to know I don't exist, so it won't make any difference to me.

But if there is a Christian heaven... Well, for a start I won't be going there what with all the blasphemy and premarital sex I do be engaging in. So I'll be burning in hell but my mum will be in heaven. The fact that I'll be in hell will make her sad. But there's no sadness in heaven so either it's not heaven or my mother will be made not to care that I'm in hell, which would mean that she's not really my mother.

OR I'll get into heaven through some loophole and then I'll spend forever and ever and ever with my mum who, much as I love her, drives me up the wall after about 2 days. So either I'll have to be in heaven, miserable, or I'll be made to be not driven mad by my mum in which case I will not be me, or she will not be her.

Not only that but it's for ETERNITY. What happens after you've discussed every aspect of everything ever and there's still eternity to go? Not to mention the praising God that is apparently the main occupation in heaven? So there you are; doing little but polishing God's ego while stuck for ever and ever with your family, and you can never, ever leave, and you've been brainwashed so you enjoy it. Honestly, that sounds like hell. Or North Korea.

Notavirus.exe wrote: »

If I had 100% definitive proof that there was no God, I'd turn into a depressed psycho murderer. That's if I didn't kill myself in a depression fulled rage.

This is rather terrifying for the rest of us, don't you think? It basically means "If I wasn't under 24 hour surveillance I'd kill everyone". If someone came up to you and introduced you to their friend Dave who follows them around at all times and that was the only reason that they didn't kill and rape wouldn't you be rather be worried about that person?

Notavirus.exe wrote: »

Can you please explain how you live life believing there is no God without going insane?

I get up in the morning, eat breakfast, go to work, come home, have dinner, engage in hobbies, meet with friends, watch some telly and the fact that there are no gods makes as little impact on my life as the fact that there are no leprechauns makes on yours. I don't sit around thinking 'Boy, is my life ever empty without a god'. In fact, my life is probably better for it. I get to take 100% of the credit for my triumphs: I got my job because I was the best candidate, not because I begged a supernatural entity. Sure it means that I have no-one to blame when I get sick or have a misfortune of some kind but I'm a big girl, I can cope with that.

RedPaddyX wrote: »

He did. For 30 years.

Two thousand years ago to a bunch of uneducated people in a small area of a small country. Why not show up again now when there's a global media so everyone on earth can see for themselves?

KomradeBishop

Drumpot wrote: »

I would be interested to know how many people suffering from depression, anxiety, drug/ alcohol problems , workaholic etc, suffer from a crisis of spirituality. The meaning of spirituality in this case is "what's the point of life and I'm lonely why don't I feel like I fit in, in this world".

I know what it's like to be misunderstood and find society to be extremely unforgiving and inflexible towards things it cannot simply explain. I also find our society completely ignorant to its own flaws, hypocrisys and self destructive strategies. If people spent more time being objective self regulating and trying to be honest with themselves ( myself included) they wouldn't waste as much time knocking others.

This is one of the reasons religion can be so dangerous. If those people look towards religion to solve their problems, they'll fail to see that the problem is with society itself, and how it is run socially/politically/economically.

Why can the world be such a shít, unforgiving and lonely place for many people? (conditions which can lead many to an existential crisis) Largely because it is run to be that way (not necessarily intentionally, mind), but it can be changed.

Get people to take stock in religious or spiritual belief (particularly the nonsense 'positive thinking' movement), then you get to lead them away from the real causes of (and solutions to) problems in life.


I think a lot of religious/spiritual belief, is just wanting simple/easy answers to many of the above problems, rather than facing up to the complexities of how things are, and trying to improve them - I think the latter (trying to understand and improve things) provides a much better purpose to life, than any religious belief.

biko

Notavirus.exe wrote: »

If I had 100% definitive proof that there was no God, I'd turn into a depressed psycho murderer.

It's kinda sad that you think you need outside influence to control you.

How about you live a good life right now and worry about what happens later when you die?

Cold War Kid

syklops wrote: »

A man is in a car crash and gets fatally injured. He doesn't die straight away, instead he dies a slow agonising death over a period of several hours. Every minute is torture. Eventually he dies and meets God. "God why did you allow me die a slow torturous death when it was obvious I wasn't going to make it?"

So much for "And deliver us from evil".

This is life. It sucks most of the time, but thats the way it is, so try to make the most of it while you can.

If heaven is so great why don't all christians kill themselves to get there faster?

True. Even if God does exist, life can be awful - really awful - for many good people anyway. You just gotta soldier on.

Some people don't need the security and comfort of belief in a deity (they find that security and comfort elsewhere) - and some do, which is fine too.

Skatedude

Stupid question really, If this is our only shot at life, then live it, enjoy it to the most and treat others well because it may be their only shot at life too.

Far too many people use their religious beliefs to turn in to physcho murderers then atheists/agnostics.

Too me your argument seems completely reversed.

zeffabelli

Cold War Kid wrote: »

True. Even if God does exist, life can be awful - really awful - for many good people anyway. You just gotta soldier on.

Find pleasure in the detail.

Stealthfins

I'd love an after life,especially one where I could write the script myself.
Kinda like infinite wishes,one day I could go surfing/bodyboarding on a tropical beach with offshore warm breezes 8 foot perfect swell,coconut water on tap....

Another day I could have a chainsaw and cut timber all day,wearing a lumberjack style shirt rugged jeans and steel toe cap caterpillars.
In a wispy snowy atmosphere with mountains and forests in the background.....

Lovely

Drumpot

KomradeBishop wrote: »

This is one of the reasons religion can be so dangerous. If those people look towards religion to solve their problems, they'll fail to see that the problem is with society itself, and how it is run socially/politically/economically.

Why can the world be such a shít, unforgiving and lonely place for many people? (conditions which can lead many to an existential crisis) Largely because it is run to be that way (not necessarily intentionally, mind), but it can be changed.

Get people to take stock in religious or spiritual belief (particularly the nonsense 'positive thinking' movement), then you get to lead them away from the real causes of (and solutions to) problems in life.


I think a lot of religious/spiritual belief, is just wanting simple/easy answers to many of the above problems, rather than facing up to the complexities of how things are, and trying to improve them - I think the latter (trying to understand and improve things) provides a much better purpose to life, than any religious belief.

Again, I don't think the problem is religion or atheism. The problem is the individual and their interpretations of this belief.

Your comments suggest that you believe religion is a way of avoiding life's problems. this may be the case for some people, but I would imagine there are atheists who have zero morals or care for how their actions effect other people. This is not a reflection on the concept of atheism, it's a reflection on how individuals interpret different beliefs.

If a person has a more meaningful and content life believing in God and not bothering anybody else why is it wrong in anyway?

Most people lie to themselves everyday by believing positive things about their life that are simply untrue. Are the USA really the "goodies" as generally portayed? Are we really a civilised society when there are homeless people left to fend for themselves ? When peoples financial situation determines their ability to get the health their family may need? (Input one of many contradictory elements of western democracies that's accepted as ok) . People lie to themselves and take hypocritical views on selective elements of society.

yellowlabrador

Stealthfins wrote: »

I'd love an after life,especially one where I could write the script myself.
Kinda like infinite wishes,one day I could go surfing/bodyboarding on a tropical beach with offshore warm breezes 8 foot perfect swell,coconut water on tap....

Another day I could have a chainsaw and cut timber all day,wearing a lumberjack style shirt rugged jeans and steel toe cap caterpillars.
In a wispy snowy atmosphere with mountains and forests in the background.....

Lovely

And press wild flowers........

Heckler

I used to be a bit put out by the notion than when you die thats it. Just gone. Then someone pointed out did you miss yourself before you were born. Same difference. Gone is gone.

My mother has faith and good for her. If there is a God everyone who meets him should spit in his eye for all hes allowed.

I hate the argument "if theres a God why does He allow children to die of cancer etc ?" "Its Gods will" Like all will be revealed later and we"ll go "ah yeah. I see it now" **** off outta that.

KomradeBishop

Drumpot wrote: »

Again, I don't think the problem is religion or atheism. The problem is the individual and their interpretations of this belief.

Your comments suggest that you believe religion is a way of avoiding life's problems. this may be the case for some people, but I would imagine there are atheists who have zero morals or care for how their actions effect other people. This is not a reflection on the concept of atheism, it's a reflection on how individuals interpret different beliefs.

If a person has a more meaningful and content life believing in God and not bothering anybody else why is it wrong in anyway?

Most people lie to themselves everyday by believing positive things about their life that are simply untrue. Are the USA really the "goodies" as generally portayed? Are we really a civilised society when there are homeless people left to fend for themselves ? When peoples financial situation determines their ability to get the health their family may need? (Input one of many contradictory elements of western democracies that's accepted as ok) . People lie to themselves and take hypocritical views on selective elements of society.

Ya but it is what you mention in the last paragraph - and more related to it - which is what often leads to, or traps people into, the 'existential crisis' in the first place - where they come to 'need' religion (or other delusional beliefs), in order to feel ok with themselves and life.

That's not a problem with the individual and their beliefs, that's a problem with the whole of society/economics/politics. In fact, a tendency to attributing that as being a problem with the 'individual' rather than society overall, is itself a big part of the problem (people usually end up taking on these beliefs, out of social conditioning/pressure, after all).

If people are lying to themselves and neglecting civic duties as a result, that's a huge problem. If society was managed in a better way than it presently is, particularly in a manner where people could not drop off the edge of society in various ways (socially, economically, and otherwise) - that could be used to make life considerably better for everyone, where people would be less likely to encounter an existential crisis, and wouldn't need the existential comfort of believing in an afterlife.

Kidchameleon

Op you can be atheist and also beleive in an afterlife so chill

blackbird 49

It not something I think or worry about there are more important things in life, I know of people who believe in God and most of them are the biggest two faced f**kers around

Notavirus.exe

Zillah wrote: »

Could you tell us exactly what it is about a Godless universe that would make you become "depressed psycho murderer", and how God existing fixes it?

Well think of it this way. Everything has to have a beginning. But before the universe, there was nothing. Why does anything have to exist? Our universe is expanding. There was nothing before the explosion that created the universe so what's outside the universe? Just thinking about an endless open space of nothing makes me go berserk. How did that come into existence?
It's hard to explain but if there definitely wasn't any God or supreme thing in charge of the universe then this world wouldn't matter.
The extremely annoying thing is the fact that everything has to have a beginning and that includes the emptiness of space and the particles that caused the "big bang".

For some reason I'm convinced that my consciousness would have had to have existed before the universe was created. To me the universe is a game and I'm trapped inside that game.
Basically what I'm saying is that trying to imagine that nothing existed then all of a sudden sticks and stones and everything just existed gives my brain that pain you get when you make both of your eyes look at your nose. It makes me crazy. I might have exaggerated what I'd do if I thought for a second that there was no God but I still know I'd go crazy.

Notavirus.exe

Notavirus.exe wrote: »

...

If death was the complete end of you, your thoughts, your emotions and your memories, then life is cruel.
I love my relatives, close and distant, without limit. I believe myself to be very lucky to have been related to them and to have known them and to have had them as part of my life.
I've had a lot of good times with them. I have wonderful memories of occasions with them.

Having those memories, that love and the joy of knowing them completely wiped at death is the cruelest thing in the world.

"Oh, I want to do this before I die, I want to do that before I die."... What's the point?

MagicHumanDoll

Notavirus.exe wrote: »

If death was the complete end of you, your thoughts, your emotions and your memories, then life is cruel.
I love my relatives, close and distant, without limit. I believe myself to be very lucky to have been related to them and to have known them and to have had them as part of my life.
I've had a lot of good times with them. I have wonderful memories of occasions with them.

Having those memories, that love and the joy of knowing them completely wiped at death is the cruelest thing in the world.

"Oh, I want to do this before I die, I want to do that before I die."... What's the point?

The point, as I see it, is that life itself is heaven. You're given a chance at this profound experience that we cannot begin to wrap our heads around.

Wanting to do things before you die, to experience life to the fullest, well that is far more important if you believe those experiences are only valuable in the here and the now. They become less important if you think that spending eternity mulling over your brief existence.

Sure, it's nice to think that some day we enter a world, an existence, where pain is not possible and everything is good. But surely that makes life pointless, some sort of trial run of eternity. Idk but I don't find comfort in thinking that my life is some sort of attempt at creating memories and experiences that I can reflect on for my second (eternal) life.

Plus if you think of it like that, all of life's troubles would become even more brutal knowing you have eternity to revisit them..

Notavirus.exe

In response to all those who say "Why does God allow blah blah blah to happen to people?", I have the following to say:

I believe that life is just God giving us a taste of both pain and enjoyment, as well as being a test.

God wants us all to be saved and to live with him in his wonderful world called "Heaven".

God is a loving being. He wants us to be part of his family, but he doesn't want serial killers or thieves (i.e. sinners) in his home.

If life was perfect without disease or death or suffering then people would be too attached to false idols to want to know God.

I don't know why I'm here. Maybe we've all met God before. Maybe he has wiped our memories and put us here to test us.

I would like to ask certain people here, why does the idea of a being such as God seem ridiculous?

I find it quite difficult to believe that someone can be truly "atheist".

syklops

Notavirus.exe wrote: »

In response to all those who say "Why does God allow blah blah blah to happen to people?", I have the following to say:

I believe that life is just God giving us a taste of both pain and enjoyment, as well as being a test.

God wants us all to be saved and to live with him in his wonderful world called "Heaven".

God is a loving being. He wants us to be part of his family, but he doesn't want serial killers or thieves (i.e. sinners) in his home.

If life was perfect without disease or death or suffering then people would be too attached to false idols to want to know God.

I don't know why I'm here. Maybe we've all met God before. Maybe he has wiped our memories and put us here to test us.

I would like to ask certain people here, why does the idea of a being such as God seem ridiculous?

I find it quite difficult to believe that someone can be truly "atheist".

Look, most of us aetheists don't go wandering into the christianity forum and asking the unanswerable, so could the christians maybe stop wandering in here?

efb

Notavirus.exe wrote: »

In response to all those who say "Why does God allow blah blah blah to happen to people?", I have the following to say:

I believe that life is just God giving us a taste of both pain and enjoyment, as well as being a test.

God wants us all to be saved and to live with him in his wonderful world called "Heaven".

God is a loving being. He wants us to be part of his family, but he doesn't want serial killers or thieves (i.e. sinners) in his home.

If life was perfect without disease or death or suffering then people would be too attached to false idols to want to know God.

I don't know why I'm here. Maybe we've all met God before. Maybe he has wiped our memories and put us here to test us.

I would like to ask certain people here, why does the idea of a being such as God seem ridiculous?

I find it quite difficult to believe that someone can be truly "atheist".

Is earth like a reality tv series for god?

So god gives babies pain and suffering to stop people having false idols- sounds like a great guy...

efb

as the kids say- YOLO

nozzferrahhtoo

Notavirus.exe wrote: »

I don't understand how you can cope with life believing that when you die, that's it.

Better than I would if I thought this life was only a stop gap to an eternal one. An idea that would render everything I do in this world both insignificant and pointless.

Notavirus.exe wrote: »

If I had 100% definitive proof that there was no God, I'd turn into a depressed psycho murderer. That's if I didn't kill myself in a depression fulled rage.

Then as what people would call an atheist.... even though I do not call myself one.... I hope you never lose your faith.

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Op you can be atheist and also beleive in an afterlife so chill

But just as surely as i should have come after e..... you can not do so based on any kind of substantiation, oder?

Notavirus.exe wrote: »

Well think of it this way. Everything has to have a beginning. But before the universe, there was nothing. Why does anything have to exist?

Why does anything NOT have to exist? Why is that question more or less valid than yours?

We as humans seem to have this issue with "why does anything exist" which means we have some internal idea that not existing is the default...... so existing needs to be explained. But no one so far, least of all you, has explained to me why existing can not be the default.

Notavirus.exe wrote: »

There was nothing before the explosion that created the universe

You know this how?

Notavirus.exe wrote: »

It's hard to explain but if there definitely wasn't any God or supreme thing in charge of the universe then this world wouldn't matter.

Or.... just to fry your noodle as one of the matrix characters says.... would the concept of it even "mattering" exist if it was not for the universe? After all if there were no brains like yours, or mine, worrying about whether things "matter" or not..... would anything matter.

Would "god" even "matter" if there was no subjective minds to make it so?

I am being tongue in cheek but the truth is the universe does not owe us an explanation. You think whatever the answer is.... it has to "matter" in some way. But this concept of things "mattering" only comes from our minds. Without our minds.... not only would it not "matter".... no one would care if it did not either way.

Notavirus.exe wrote: »

The extremely annoying thing is the fact that everything has to have a beginning

Except that is not a "fact".

Notavirus.exe wrote: »

It makes me crazy.

Mainly because you are caught up with this concept of things "mattering".

Notavirus.exe wrote: »

If death was the complete end of you, your thoughts, your emotions and your memories, then life is cruel.

Two fails there.

First one.... that would not make life cruel. That would make me lucky to have had that journey where countless infinities of other possible sentient beings did not.

Second one.... so what if it were cruel? That says nothing about a god. Truth is truth whether it be cruel or not. You are value judging truth claims based on whether they PLEASE you or not. Yet truth remains true, or false, regardless of your emotional reaction to it.

Notavirus.exe wrote: »

"Oh, I want to do this before I die, I want to do that before I die."... What's the point?

Do you want me to answer this? It might be longer than the post above so far

Mark Tapley

Notavirus.exe wrote: »

If death was the complete end of you, your thoughts, your emotions and your memories, then life is cruel.
I love my relatives, close and distant, without limit. I believe myself to be very lucky to have been related to them and to have known them and to have had them as part of my life.
I've had a lot of good times with them. I have wonderful memories of occasions with them.

Having those memories, that love and the joy of knowing them completely wiped at death is the cruelest thing in the world.

"Oh, I want to do this before I die, I want to do that before I die."... What's the point?

Life /existence isn't cruel .This is part of God think in which we are punished or rewarded. Life is a condition of being . The universe does not revolve around us.
Having memories of loved ones wiped at death is a ridiculous concept. Your brain will have ceased to function. What really troubles you is an idea rather than an actuality.

“If we wish to draw philosophical conclusions about our own existence, our significance, and the significance of the universe itself, our conclusions should be based on empirical knowledge. A truly open mind means forcing our imaginations to conform to the evidence of reality, and not vice versa, whether or not we like the implications.” -Lawrence M Krauss

Notavirus.exe

I might be going a bit off topic but I think I'm starting to work this all out.

I remember a story that someone once told me. I'll copy and paste it from another website. It seems to be a popular story.

****
""In hell, there is a huge feast laid out on the table, but everybody's knives and forks are so long that they can't get the food to their own mouths. Struggle as they may, in the face of all this food, they starve.

In heaven, the story is almost exactly the same. There is a wonderful feast laid out. The knives and forks are so long that you can't get your food to your own mouth. The difference is that, in heaven, the people stop trying to feed themselves and instead use their long knives and forks to feed each other.""
****

The first paragraph of that quote describes this greed filled world.
The second paragraph would describe this world if everyone loved everyone else and they put other people's needs before theirs, if everyone wasn't so selfish.

In that, I believe that this life is a test. Depending on how you live life, you're going to either Heaven or Hell.

That's what I believe. That's what gives my life a purpose. I want to know what you atheists believe is your purpose.

MagicHumanDoll

Notavirus.exe wrote: »

I find it quite difficult to believe that someone can be truly "atheist".

"I intend to live forever, or die trying." ~Groucho Marx

"I don't believe in the after life, although I am bringing a change of underwear." ~Woody Allen

"In the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years." ~Abraham Lincoln

and my personal favourite

"Eternal nothingness is fine if you happen to be dressed for it." ~Woody Allen

Trust me, taking the piss out of people who can't acknowledge everything is a possibility (cough, being truly athiest cough) is what proves that I am 'truly athiest'

MagicHumanDoll

Notavirus.exe wrote: »

That's what I believe. That's what gives my life a purpose. I want to know what you atheists' believe is your purpose.

Well then if you've lived to a certain point (let's say 20 years of age)why not get into heaven early, if the only thing in your life worth living for is heaven?

That's exactly what gives my life purpose, believing that I don't have that luxury and that I may only have a certain period of time before I cease to exist.

At the end of the day though, it's not about trying to understand someone else's beliefs. Instead, be able to acknowledge they have them and move on with your life. That's what I do!

nozzferrahhtoo

Notavirus.exe wrote: »

The first paragraph of that quote describes this greed filled world.

The second paragraph would describe this world if everyone loved everyone else and they put other people's needs before theirs, if everyone wasn't so selfish.

And both paragraphs show that you theists are so unimaginative.... that when asked to talk about concepts like heaven and hell.... the best you can do is talk about "eating".

Amazing is it not that while you revel in your unsubstantiated notions of more wonderful states of existence.... you mainly just sit around making gastronomic-porn versions of this one. Oh the "land of milk and honey" indeed. More food please.

Perhaps your lust for heaven is the test you fail?