Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Is "Dublin" a real place?

Options
  • 21-08-2015 11:29pm
    #1
    Notavirus.exe
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 832 ✭✭✭


    I know the title looks insulting to atheists but I am not attacking atheist beliefs.

    I respect that you don't believe in God but I don't understand how you can cope with life believing that when you die, that's it.
    If I had 100% definitive proof that there was no God, I'd turn into a depressed psycho murderer. That's if I didn't kill myself in a depression fulled rage.

    Can you please explain how you live life believing there is no God without going insane?


«134567…20

Comments

  • Options
    #2
    Akrasia
    Registered Users Posts: 22,264 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Notavirus.exe wrote: »
    I know the title looks insulting to atheists but I am not attacking atheist beliefs.

    I respect that you don't believe in God but I don't understand how you can cope with life believing that when you die, that's it.
    If I had 100% definitive proof that there was no God, I'd turn into a depressed psycho murderer. That's if I didn't kill myself in a depression fulled rage.

    Can you please explain how you live life believing there is no God without going insane?

    Because if there is no god than we can take the world at face value.

    On the other hand, if there was a god, then we would be faced with countless questions mostly related to why he's hiding from us and why he's giving us so many mixed messages.


    A life without god has uncertainty, we don't 'know' where we 'came from'

    A life with god has way more uncertainty. Why would a 'god' hide himself yet demand to be adored, as well as all the gratuitous suffering, scientific inaccuracies, unconvincing and derivative narratives........


  • Options
    #3
    EoghanIRL
    Registered Users Posts: 4,080 ✭✭✭EoghanIRL


    Should I worry about all the time that I didn't exist too?


  • Options
    #4
    Mr_Muffin
    Registered Users Posts: 917 ✭✭✭Mr_Muffin


    Why doesn't God just come to Earth tomorrow to show everyone he is real and then go back to where ever he lives? That way we would all know that he is real and life would be easier.


  • Options
    #5
    Zillah
    Registered Users Posts: 17,371 ✭✭✭✭Zillah


    Notavirus.exe wrote: »
    I know the title looks insulting to atheists but I am not attacking atheist beliefs.

    I respect that you don't believe in God but I don't understand how you can cope with life believing that when you die, that's it.
    If I had 100% definitive proof that there was no God, I'd turn into a depressed psycho murderer. That's if I didn't kill myself in a depression fulled rage.

    Can you please explain how you live life believing there is no God without going insane?

    Frankly I find the idea of God being real to be nightmarishly oppressive. Any God at all, let alone the fupping psychopath we see in the bible. I suspect the main reason you're so dependent on the idea of God is that you were raised with it as a crutch; the universe aint so bad at face value.

    I concede that death sucks, no one likes the idea of ceasing to exist, but, well, like most bad things in life, it's going to just go ahead and happen whether you're ready for it or not.

    I didn't exist for billions of years before I was born and there will be billions of years Zillah-free after I die, neither needs to be a source of horror once you can get your head around it.

    Is it possible that you're asking this question because you're starting to see a conflict between the part of you that wants God to be real and the part of you that's waking up to the fact that it's probably an insane belief for a grown up to hold?

    Could you tell us exactly what it is about a Godless universe that would make you become "depressed psycho murderer", and how God existing fixes it?


  • Options
    #6
    Zillah
    Registered Users Posts: 17,371 ✭✭✭✭Zillah


    Mr_Muffin wrote: »
    Why doesn't God just come to Earth tomorrow to show everyone he is real and then go back to where ever he lives? That way we would all know that he is real and life would be easier.

    It's actually a really important question. Why would a being who exists pay one second's thought to the notion of "faith"? Seriously. If I exist then why would I care one iota about the concept of people believing I exist? Belief is a non-issue for beings who are real - it's only fictional ones that obsess over belief.

    Imagine if President Higgins had never been seen or heard, but press releases kept being released from his office saying that he definitely existed and that it was important that everyone had faith that he existed. It's insane. It's an utterly nonsensical way to behave.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #7
    yellowlabrador
    Registered Users Posts: 1,183 ✭✭✭yellowlabrador


    I can't imagine enjoying heaven, I'd rather be dead.I don't think I could handle eternity.


  • Options
    #8
    TheQuietFella
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,857 ✭✭✭TheQuietFella


    Notavirus.exe wrote: »
    I know the title looks insulting to atheists but I am not attacking atheist beliefs.

    I respect that you don't believe in God but I don't understand how you can cope with life believing that when you die, that's it.
    If I had 100% definitive proof that there was no God, I'd turn into a depressed psycho murderer. That's if I didn't kill myself in a depression fulled rage.

    Can you please explain how you live life believing there is no God without going insane?

    Can you ever just move along and leave people be without having to justify
    themselves to anybody. People either believe or they don't! At least they have put some thought into it. Be they right or wrong that's for another deity to decide!

    In other words its none of your ******* business!


  • Options
    #9
    Brindor
    Registered Users Posts: 75 ✭✭Brindor


    yellowlabrador wrote: »
    I can't imagine enjoying heaven, I'd rather be dead.I don't think I could handle eternity.

    Wouldn't you just be dead for eternity too ?


  • Options
    #10
    yellowlabrador
    Registered Users Posts: 1,183 ✭✭✭yellowlabrador


    Brindor wrote: »
    Wouldn't you just be dead for eternity too ?
    I don't know anything about the first 4,5 billion years of planet earth's existance and I won't know anything of the next 4,5 billion years. I'm just a pimple on the face of the universe.


  • Options
    #11
    Zillah
    Registered Users Posts: 17,371 ✭✭✭✭Zillah


    Brindor wrote: »
    Wouldn't you just be dead for eternity too ?

    Sure, but you're not aware of it. You don't exist any more. That's the point. Death, by definition, can't be unpleasant.

    Dying, however...
    TheQuietFella wrote: »
    Can you ever just move along and leave people be without having to justify
    themselves to anybody. People either believe or they don't! At least they have put some thought into it. Be they right or wrong that's for another deity to decide!

    In other words its none of your ******* business!

    Not sure you quite get the point of a discussion forum. Especially with someone who seems to have a genuine, if not entirely subtle, question,

    (ps yes hello A&A, I appear to be back this week for some reason - God is dead etc, boo theists)


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #12
    PopePalpatine
    Registered Users Posts: 11,849 ✭✭✭✭PopePalpatine


    TheQuietFella wrote: »
    Can you ever just move along and leave people be without having to justify
    themselves to anybody.     People either believe or they don't! At least they have put some thought into it. Be they right or wrong that's for another deity to decide!

    In other words its none of your ******* business!

    Does that also apply to one's sexuality?


  • Options
    #13
    Cold War Kid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,353 ✭✭✭Cold War Kid


    Notavirus.exe wrote: »
    I respect that you don't believe in God but I don't understand how you can cope with life believing that when you die, that's it.
    If I had 100% definitive proof that there was no God, I'd turn into a depressed psycho murderer. That's if I didn't kill myself in a depression fulled rage.
    That's just you though. The way I am is, I don't think there's definitely nothing out there (because I can't possibly know that) but I don't know for sure either, so there may not be anything. I dunno, I just drive on - don't really think about it.


  • Options
    #14
    Zillah
    Registered Users Posts: 17,371 ✭✭✭✭Zillah


    Cold War Kid wrote: »
    That's just you though. The way I am is, I don't think there's definitely nothing out there (because I can't possibly know that) but I don't know for sure either, so there may not be anything. I dunno, I just drive on - don't really think about it.

    odbA7zH.gif


  • Options
    #15
    mudabi
    Registered Users Posts: 59 ✭✭mudabi


    Notavirus.exe wrote: »
    I know the title looks insulting to atheists but I am not attacking atheist beliefs.

    I respect that you don't believe in God but I don't understand how you can cope with life believing that when you die, that's it.
    If I had 100% definitive proof that there was no God, I'd turn into a depressed psycho murderer. That's if I didn't kill myself in a depression fulled rage.

    Can you please explain how you live life believing there is no God without going insane?

    We have no idea why we are here or more importantly what the universe as we see it as humans actually is. There is no reason to fear death. In that case we should also experience horror at the thought of all of the time we have spent as a non entity before we were born. If we do that we have to ask ourselves what is time? Time is something that we have come up with ourselves, a day being the rotation of the earth, a year being the orbit of our planet around the sun etc. Therefore eternity, or the notion of it, is our own making.

    I believe in the concept of now, tried to explain this to a priest once, didn't go well. He has since left the priesthood.


  • Options
    #16
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 81,918 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Notavirus.exe wrote: »
    I know the title looks insulting to atheists but I am not attacking atheist beliefs.

    I respect that you don't believe in God but I don't understand how you can cope with life believing that when you die, that's it.
    If I had 100% definitive proof that there was no God, I'd turn into a depressed psycho murderer. That's if I didn't kill myself in a depression fulled rage.

    Can you please explain how you live life believing there is no God without going insane?

    Certainly when I was evolving my sense of beliefs I reached the same nihilistic void of thoughts we all feel about our own mortality, the idea about how vast the world really is, and how final death will be. (In the end, I settled on a sort of non-dualism hypothesis and applied it to spirituality - essentially god was the big bang and thus all matter and energy is essentially god) I did experience depression, absolutely I did. But going into it I got to a point where I realized I was trapping myself in my own thoughts, and I knew eventually I would figure myself out of it. It takes you longer to search for your own portal of truth than it does to listen to a sermon, but I feel that it is a more relevant pursuit.

    That said, I just accept that nobody *truly* knows what happpens at your end, and I live not worrying about it. Instead of worrying about earning a place in heaven or having a nice spot in hell to rot in, or limbo, I think about Legacy: what will my impact be, what do I want to leave behind, that sort of thing. Religion trying to dictate morality based upon a post-death result just seemed unrealistic; it's why islamic terror groups do what they do, for those 72 virgins; then christians decided it was OK to crusade off and kill some muslims because they were afraid of a caliphate, etc. and it just never ends.

    Instead my morality is pretty simple, based on sounds philosophic arguments like the Harm Principle and such. If I do something can I live with the outcome, basically. Like, sometimes I might get angry with someone I know, over some dispute or another, even though no god or community-driven moral body dictates how I should act, I'm not going to act out on impulses to disrupt that person's life, hurt them financially etc. whatever and its case by case. I got a truck driver fired once because he was being a reckless driver, by contacting the company involved. I feel bad that he got fired but I feel better that other drivers will not be endangered by him (as I was, on the day in question). Just an example.

    Its really simple when you boil it down. Just enjoy what life throws at you (or try, life sucks occasionally) and on a point by point basis think about if you can look back and be OK with your life. You don't have to be proud of it, and in some cases you may be downright ashamed of some things sure, like when you act in passion or say something cruel to someone, or just blow them off completely. Whats important is that even those are something to learn from. Theyre mistakes, theyre human. If you pretend they dont exist, or think they are only 'sins to be forgiven' etc. then what are you taking away from it?

    Deducing from your post in the Christianity forum I assume you're such, and I'm sorry for your troubles. I don't think that I need to derive my morality straight from the bible: anyone can acclimate to their given social contract/climate and will learn things from the culture they live in. I got it from books, I got it from people, I got it from media, etc. and the bible will on occasion contradict itself anyway - most religious texts do, America loved picking apart the hypocrisies listed in the Koran after 9/11 (though politically they focused on the jihads and the virgins..) and the same way you have things in Christianity like Leviticus. To quickly boil down the argument there: most religions/individual groups cherry pick the morality they like and drop the morality they don't (like stoning people); at the same time, they still profusely proclaim that the Bible etc. is holy and everything you need to live a good life, etc. etc. etc. and all I can say to that is I don't need a book to tell me not to do bad things, I don't need a book to tell me how to be nice either.

    Hope that helps I'm starting to ramble. It may seem like a more pragmatic approach to life, but I found and often see in devout christians (especially young adults) there is a depression that can often occur when you try and hold yourself to an above-human standard of morality. All life is sacred oh I killed a bug, etc. especially in the area of sexuality, religious opression causes a lot of people to feel extremely awkward about sex and I think it just doesn't work, you're human, and you need to quit rolling your character with the 1st edition rulebook of D&D: live an organic set of morals that adheres to reality. End of the world, the human race is down to 150,000 survivors (hyperbole' I know): I strongly oppose abortion, as it is selfish in those circumstances. In reality, the population will exceed 11 Billion people by 2100, and religious institutions are stuck upholding a 2,000 year old text that essentially tells you to breed breed breed and don't stick your dingy in Johnny.


  • Options
    #17
    DivingDuck
    Registered Users Posts: 1,396 ✭✭✭DivingDuck


    I wish I had an answer for this question, because I feel it's coming from a genuine place, but I really don't have one beyond the simple fact I've just never felt the need for anything more. These days, I would really consider myself more an agnostic, but that's primarily an acknowledgement that have I no concrete proof of either rather than any growing of belief.

    Although I attended Catholic schools, I was raised by someone with strongly atheist beliefs, so to me, atheism was "the truth", and religion was just something I nodded along with in school because that's what you did to avoid making problems for everyone. Before I was old enough for an explicit discussion on the topic, religion just never really came up much at home, so it was never a part of my life. Unlike many others raised in a house without much religion, I never felt there was anything missing then, and I don't feel there's anything missing now.

    In the spirit of saying potentially offensive things without the intention of offending: I just don't understand why people feel the need for religion. I like to feel I will be held accountable for my actions by society and by myself only, and I don't need anything greater to keep me honest/on the "straight and narrow". I also personally don't need to feel any greater purpose than the purpose of exploring myself and the world and being kind to the people I encounter while I go. As for life everlasting... It's potentially a nice idea (depending on the idea), but also a bit overwhelming, as well, especially the whole "hell" concept. The prospect of just stopping (like you do when you go to sleep) isn't half so imposing, because it doesn't ask anything of me. It's lights out, goodnight, and there's something very easy about that where life can be quite difficult and taxing sometimes.

    Although I'm generally a believer in analysis and the examined life, if you find religion (or indeed atheism) brings something positive to your life, you're probably better to just embrace it and not overthink it.


  • Options
    #18
    Cabaal
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,470 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    But when I die that isn't it... And it doesn't take a god to make it so.

    The atoms and particles that make me.. Well me go on and form other things over time, trees, people, objects etc, so in a sense I never stop existing except in mind.

    We are all made of star stuff at the end of the day, we're also basically made up of countless things in the universe that came before us.

    Do I fear death, nope, just like I don't fear before I was born. It is part of the way things are, everything has a life span. That lifespan might be 24hours or 11billion years, but everything essentially dies or stops existing in its current form.

    If you need to create a magical land that you think you'll go to after you die to deal with your fears then so be it, but don't push that on somebody else.


  • Options
    #19
    stephenl15
    Registered Users Posts: 5,885 ✭✭✭stephenl15


    I just think the idea of god being real is just stupid in fairness. It makes absoltely no sense and I can't understand how people believe such things.

    All religion does is cause wars. The only positive thing I can think about religion is it gives people peace of mind in that they think life is not over after the die and that they will be in heaven or reincarnated or whatever. On the other hand I'm pretty scared of dying but hey, what can you do :P


  • Options
    #20
    RedPaddyX
    Registered Users Posts: 79 ✭✭RedPaddyX


    Mr_Muffin wrote: »
    Why doesn't God just come to Earth tomorrow to show everyone he is real and then go back to where ever he lives? That way we would all know that he is real and life would be easier.

    He did. For 30 years.


  • Options
    #21
    syklops
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,966 ✭✭✭✭syklops


    Notavirus.exe wrote: »
    I know the title looks insulting to atheists but I am not attacking atheist beliefs.

    I respect that you don't believe in God but I don't understand how you can cope with life believing that when you die, that's it.
    If I had 100% definitive proof that there was no God, I'd turn into a depressed psycho murderer. That's if I didn't kill myself in a depression fulled rage.

    Can you please explain how you live life believing there is no God without going insane?

    A man is in a car crash and gets fatally injured. He doesn't die straight away, instead he dies a slow agonising death over a period of several hours. Every minute is torture. Eventually he dies and meets God. "God why did you allow me die a slow torturous death when it was obvious I wasn't going to make it?"

    So much for "And deliver us from evil".

    This is life. It sucks most of the time, but thats the way it is, so try to make the most of it while you can.

    If heaven is so great why don't all christians kill themselves to get there faster?


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #22
    syklops
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,966 ✭✭✭✭syklops


    PopePalpatine wrote: »
    Does that also apply to one's sexuality?

    As they say in 'Murka Good catch!


  • Options
    #23
    TheQuietFella
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,857 ✭✭✭TheQuietFella


    PopePalpatine wrote: »
    Does that also apply to one's sexuality?

    I suppose in hindsight it does!


  • Options
    #24
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    Knowing there is no afterlife is incredibly liberating. I have done enough naughty things to ensure a long stay in hell. I'm not sorry so why would I want to go through life fearing what awaits me when I die? I'm totally fine with death being the end.


  • Options
    #25
    KomradeBishop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,981 ✭✭✭KomradeBishop


    Even though I don't believe in god, I fall on the side of agnosticism, and just have an attitude of "well, I'll find out and deal with all that when I'm dead...".
    I don't see the point in worrying about hypotheticals that aren't going to affect me until I die, and where objectively I can't know one way or the other until that happens - don't see why people falling on the side of religion/agnosticism/atheism can't take the same attitude either.

    Though it seems very likely that when we die, that's it - all the more reason to just try and enjoy life, rather than head-fúcking myself into an existential crisis, that might hinder that enjoyment...

    That's one of the funny/odd things I notice, about people who end up troubled/depressed due to an 'existential crisis' of one sort or another (be that due to religion, or trying to find out what the 'purpose' of their life is) - I don't get why they don't see, that it's rather pointless to be concerned by such a thing and let it ruin their enjoyment/happiness in life, and don't see how this is deeply ironic, as trying to make the most of your time and lead a happy/fulfilling life (based on your own principles) is kind of the whole point, and is hindered by this.

    Bit of a futile exercise to be worried about any of it really.


  • Options
    #26
    Huntergonzo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,160 ✭✭✭Huntergonzo


    Having been a believer and now being a non believer I have to say the latter is better, honestly life does remain more or less the same except you feel much more free, you stop feeling like big brother is watching and judging you 24/7.

    Can we not just live our lives and accept that when it's over it's over, there is an incredible arrogance in the belief that this entire place was created just for us and that we're too important to ever truly die, so God invented an afterlife for us so we can live forever. Now apart from that being an utterly ridiculous belief (which I once shared because of state sponsored indoctrination) at odds with all rational thought, in fairness it is comically arrogant as well!


  • Options
    #27
    zeffabelli
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,516 ✭✭✭zeffabelli


    There are three things we need, food, shelter and meaning.

    Religion helps some people create meaning, with explanations of the supernatural.

    Other people find other ways of creating meaning, through work, family, philosophy, creative outputs.

    Obviously for you, a life without God, shatters your meaning system, for me it does not because I never incorporated God much into it. So whether he exists or not doesn't matter to me. He is a big distraction, because ultimately we still have to deal with each other either way.

    I am open to the possibility, just as I am to the possibility of many, or of ghosts, as in sure why not....but I don't care that much really. My focus is on other things.

    As for life after death, well who knows. No one does. We may lose our consciousness, but maybe we won't.

    I do believe however that Jesus was a narcissistic crack pot. If you look at a quote from St Matthew he demands that people love him more than they love their own children and how he's here to set family members to fight against each other. And a man who claims to be the physical manifestation of the supernatural. Nuts.


  • Options
    #28
    Drumpot
    Registered Users Posts: 19,306 ✭✭✭✭Drumpot


    I would class myself agnostic more then atheist.

    In terms of belief, I am trying meditation and certain spiritual techniques to find inner peace.

    I see alot of people talk about God looking down and allowing atrocities happen. do we have to be the centre of his life? Is a moe relevant question not Why do humans do it to each other? It's such a human trait to pawn off their own or other human actions on somebody or something else. I am not saying that I don't feel a higher being should intervene if they could, I am saying to suggest that this is a major reason not to support the idea of one is very self absorbed (God should be able to monitor us all the time instead of creating throughout the universe). We are demanding God be responsible for our well being while ignoring the human races responsibitys for its own actions.

    That's not to say it's not a valid point. It is indeed relevant to a degree but since nobody knows if there is or is not a higher power, it's like trying to solve a murder with a dead body and zero clues or motives and coming to an absolute conclusion based on how you feel.

    I'm not religious but to be frank, suffering from chronic depression and anxiety, I have found some peace in trying meditation and spirituality techniques. It's not about religious ideas that some people confuse, it's about finding inner peace. No man made substance (pharmacy) has helped and the only progress I had made in the decades I have been trying to get well, was trying to train my mind to be more balanced.

    People can hate or detest religion, makes no odds to me. But that can close people off from spirituality or even from remaining open to the concept of a higher power. For me, it's helped me find some level of balance in life. Not through the vengeful, dick god I learned ins catholisism but from just trying to get in touch with my inner self. I don't care if it's a higher power within or just my conscious , it just matters that I can connect with it.

    The final piece I want to say is that while there are elements of religion wrong, it doesn't make it completely wrong or not worth following in some form. Like in pretty much everything in life, the problem is usually the people. I don't stop using the medical profession because the hse is useless or I have a bad experience with a bad doctor. Whether it's politics, religion or even charities. The problems are that the self absorbed nature of humans take over and people end up serving themselves rather then the cause. Then what happens is people blame the system - communism, capitalism, religion etc, when in truth the biggest problem is human nature and peoples narcissistic and pure hubris tendencies to think that everything in the universe is about us and we have no responsibility to anything.


  • Options
    #29
    Pherekydes
    Registered Users Posts: 16,119 ✭✭✭✭Pherekydes


    RedPaddyX wrote: »
    He did. For 30 years.

    Looking through a list of people who lived to 30 and the only one that might remotely match the criterion is Steve Biko. A great man, but hardly god.


  • Options
    #30
    circadian
    Registered Users Posts: 6,919 ✭✭✭circadian


    There's a certain beauty in knowing my body will decompose in the ground, providing nutrients for other life to grow.

    I consider it a reincarnation of sorts.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #31
    theteal
    Registered Users Posts: 7,593 ✭✭✭theteal


    Notavirus.exe wrote: »
    I know the title looks insulting to atheists but I am not attacking atheist beliefs.

    I respect that you don't believe in God but I don't understand how you can cope with life believing that when you die, that's it.
    If I had 100% definitive proof that there was no God, I'd turn into a depressed psycho murderer. That's if I didn't kill myself in a depression fulled rage.

    Can you please explain how you live life believing there is no God without going insane?

    So if there wasn't a fabricated all-seeing overlord, you'd go on a murderous rampage?

    That's just scary. . .seriously

    People need to become comfortable in their own skin and take responsibility for themselves. Get on with your life, be happy, make a difference and try not to be a pr!ck to anyone. Fairly simple really.


Advertisement