7.5 acres.... opinions please

Kevhog1988

ok ,
land has come up for sale right beside our place at home and myself snd father are interested in purchasing. my question is... what would the viability of actually making it pay, idont expect to be a millionaire but would it cover its own costs i.e mortgage etc. we would be starting out as new entrants i guess. i was hoping to rear calves and sell at 18 months.

the land is pretty decent but has been grazed by horses the last number of years so i guess would want a bit of tlc. fencing wouldnt be great in places and there is no water source (can run feed from homeplace not a bother).

what grants would we be eligble for (i dont have a green cert but would do it if worth my while). amd also how many calves could i rear st one time? i would obviously have two lots. this years n last years.

thanks in advance for your help.

Reggie.

theemigrant wrote: »

ok ,
land has come up for sale right beside our place at home and myself snd father are interested in purchasing. my question is... what would the viability of actually making it pay, idont expect to be a millionaire but would it cover its own costs i.e mortgage etc. we would be starting out as new entrants i guess. i was hoping to rear calves and sell at 18 months.

the land is pretty decent but has been grazed by horses the last number of years so i guess would want a bit of tlc. fencing wouldnt be great in places and there is no water source (can run feed from homeplace not a bother).

what grants would we be eligble for (i dont have a green cert but would do it if worth my while). amd also how many calves could i rear st one time? i would obviously have two lots. this years n last years.

thanks in advance for your help.

You could rear 12 cattle no bother off that as in 6 calves and 6 weanlings. I rear my lot off 5 acres.

Have you sheds for wintering and the likes?

You would have to have a system like mine in place.

Kevhog1988

Reggie. wrote: »

You could rear 12 cattle no bother off that as in 6 calves and 6 weanlings. I rear my lot off 5 acres.

Have you sheds for wintering and the likes?

You would have to have a system like mine in place.

i have 2 stables in the home place and then 3 good size sheds that i cpuld use aswell. they would be maybe 6 metres by 4 metres each.

Kevhog1988

we dont have a crush but i could have one made up fairly sharpish

Reggie.

theemigrant wrote: »

we dont have a crush but i could have one made up fairly sharpish

Have you a herd no? Sheds are fine if that big. Make sure there is plenty of ventilation tho

Kevhog1988

Reggie. wrote: »

Have you a herd no? Sheds are fine if that big. Make sure there is plenty of ventilation tho

nope, would be literally starting from scratch.

Username John

Well, its hard to say 'yes, you will make enough money to pay for itself in x years"

IMO two things kinda work against you
- you are starting from scratch
- the small amount of land, might make it more attractive for others as well as yourself, so it might go a high enough price?

Its hard to say if buying farm land could ever pay. You will pay maybe 70k+ for it? (not sure where you are, but I think it might be Meath / Kildare, so land might not be that cheap?)
If you borrowed 50k, and had the rest cash. That would be a payment of about 500euro / month, over 10 years...

And you might make 200 / acre from it, but in reality - anything you make from it, will be spent back on it in the form of improvements for a long while... You could buy SFP entitlements for it, so that would add to the long term returns, altho you would have to pay for these as well...

So - in short, I would say the answer to your question of "what would the viability of actually making it pay" is fairly doubtful.

However - after saying all that, if you think you could make it work, and would like to do it. Then go for it. I think it could be a great thing. But go into it with your eyes open...

Reggie.

theemigrant wrote: »

nope, would be literally starting from scratch.

You'll need a crush set up and then apply for the herd no. That could take a few weeks tho

Kevhog1988

Reggie. wrote: »

You'll need a crush set up and then apply for the herd no. That could take a few weeks tho

yeah i know the process etc for that.

Kevhog1988

Username John wrote: »

Well, its hard to say 'yes, you will make enough money to pay for itself in x years"

IMO two things kinda work against you
- you are starting from scratch
- the small amount of land, might make it more attractive for others as well as yourself, so it might go a high enough price?

Its hard to say if buying farm land could ever pay. You will pay maybe 70k+ for it? (not sure where you are, but I think it might be Meath / Kildare, so land might not be that cheap?)
If you borrowed 50k, and had the rest cash. That would be a payment of about 500euro / month, over 10 years...

And you might make 200 / acre from it, but in reality - anything you make from it, will be spent back on it in the form of improvements for a long while... You could buy SFP entitlements for it, so that would add to the long term returns, altho you would have to pay for these as well...

So - in short, I would say the answer to your question of "what would the viability of actually making it pay" is fairly doubtful.

However - after saying all that, if you think you could make it work, and would like to do it. Then go for it. I think it could be a great thing. But go into it with your eyes open...

i would be looking at taking an acre for a house in the future too. in my opinion it is a cheap site and considering close proximity to homeplace planning should be ok (ish).

Kevhog1988

yes the land is on kildare/meath/offaly border. i am awaiting the auctioneer to send me further details. the girl in his office indicated a guide of 10k per acre.

Reggie.

theemigrant wrote: »

i would be looking at taking an acre for a house in the future too. in my opinion it is a cheap site and considering close proximity to homeplace planning should be ok (ish).

Future planning. Good man

Arrow in the Knee

To be honest 7 acres is fairly small having a few weanlings and calves on it the whole year.

Will they be outwintered or fed inside during the Winter and Spring?

Also you won't make any money out of it being that small and most likely having to buy in winter feed and the bills do add up.

Sell the silage/hay of it and you'll at least make a profit from it.

Reggie.

Arrow in the Knee wrote: »

To be honest 7 acres is fairly small having a few weanlings and calves on it the whole year.

Will they be outwintered or fed inside during the Winter and Spring?

Also you won't make any money out of it being that small and most likely having to buy in winter feed and the bills do add up.

Sell the silage/hay of it and you'll at least make a profit from it.

I operate on 5 acres and the operation ticks over nicely.

AP2014

Reggie. wrote: »

I operate on 5 acres and the operation ticks over nicely.

Are ya getting SFP or DAS?

lakill Farm

theemigrant wrote: »

i would be looking at taking an acre for a house in the future too. in my opinion it is a cheap site and considering close proximity to homeplace planning should be ok (ish).

I know a few lads with reasonable priced digger hire for the footings and lawns. No need to hire them for the week when you only need it for the day :cool:

Just saying

Kevhog1988

lakill Farm wrote: »

I know a few lads with reasonable priced digger hire for the footings and lawns. No need to hire them for the week when you only need it for the day :cool:

Just saying

new certification laws have self builds pretty scuppered. Cousin will be main contractor ðŸ‘

CloughCasey1

You will do fine out of it.
Year one buy 7 fr calves in feb so you get used to rearing. By getting used to rearing and all its problems you will spot a sick animal before they get sick in an animal at any age also should only be an outlay of 700 + rearing. Break up 7 acres into 7 paddocks with water access and get soil test and start to bring up quality of ground.

YOU WILL HAVE TO RESEED THE LOT OF IT IN FIRST TWO YEARS TO HAVE ANY CHANCE

Plenty of clover in 5 of the seven acres and none in 2 for for turnout of calves

Take out half to reseed after silage cut first year and you will have more than enough for the fr calves.

By reseeding with the right type grass you will have good early and late grass and the summer will sort itself.

Out winter the fr bulls on one acre and with access to one of those sheds on straw. You should have been able to take 20 bales of silage at different stages the first summer to feed fr for first winter.

The nov of first year buy 14 HEX calves at six weeks old. Give them milk for 6 weeks and you have loads of shed space to rear them until late February weather permitting when you can get them straight to whatever was reseeded previous year.

Reseed the acre fr were outwintered on asap. Squeeze frs and sell as yearlings.
Don't worry on profit on them as they were your learning curve.

By june you should have fresh grass on 5 of the seven paddocks so reseed the other two.

Feed cattle .75kg mix of beefnuts barley and soya every day. Squeeze HEX in summer when weather suits. Keep them until grass is gone and hopefully you will have 14 nice cattle 350to 400kg @ 2.15 per kg in mart as 14mt olds. No sheds no silage no contractor costs after two years as grass seed will be done you might even be able to get an acre of hay in June for next batch of calves as they still won't be eating too much. All you need ia a nice topper for that 135 of yours and don't kill clover with nitrogen!

kowtow

theemigrant wrote: »

new certification laws have self builds pretty scuppered. Cousin will be main contractor ðŸ‘

I think they might have fixed that for "one off houses in the country".

Thank God, because the building regs as proposed were missing all kinds of important specifications for things like drawbridges and moats. Can't produce a Grand Design with one hand tied behind your back.

Reggie.

AP2014 wrote: »

Are ya getting SFP or DAS?

Nothing

Kevhog1988

CloughCasey1 wrote: »

You will do fine out of it.
Year one buy 7 fr calves in feb so you get used to rearing. By getting used to rearing and all its problems you will spot a sick animal before they get sick in an animal at any age also should only be an outlay of 700 + rearing. Break up 7 acres into 7 paddocks with water access and get soil test and start to bring up quality of ground.

YOU WILL HAVE TO RESEED THE LOT OF IT IN FIRST TWO YEARS TO HAVE ANY CHANCE

Plenty of clover in 5 of the seven acres and none in 2 for for turnout of calves

Take out half to reseed after silage cut first year and you will have more than enough for the fr calves.

By reseeding with the right type grass you will have good early and late grass and the summer will sort itself.

Out winter the fr bulls on one acre and with access to one of those sheds on straw. You should have been able to take 20 bales of silage at different stages the first summer to feed fr for first winter.

The nov of first year buy 14 HEX calves at six weeks old. Give them milk for 6 weeks and you have loads of shed space to rear them until late February weather permitting when you can get them straight to whatever was reseeded previous year.

Reseed the acre fr were outwintered on asap. Squeeze frs and sell as yearlings.
Don't worry on profit on them as they were your learning curve.

By june you should have fresh grass on 5 of the seven paddocks so reseed the other two.

Feed cattle .75kg mix of beefnuts barley and soya every day. Squeeze HEX in summer when weather suits. Keep them until grass is gone and hopefully you will have 14 nice cattle 350to 400kg @ 2.15 per kg in mart as 14mt olds. No sheds no silage no contractor costs after two years as grass seed will be done you might even be able to get an acre of hay in June for next batch of calves as they still won't be eating too much. All you need ia a nice topper for that 135 of yours and don't kill clover with nitrogen!

Thank you!!! What would be the cost of the reseeding etc? And how much is a tonne of meal at the moment?

CloughCasey1

theemigrant wrote: »

Thank you!!! What would be the cost of the reseeding etc? And how much is a tonne of meal at the moment?

Spray is 30 an acre. Leave 10 days. FYM free and 5 on diesel per acre. 2 bags lime per acre 14. Spring harrrow up down and diaognal on back of mf135 another 5. 2 bags 10-10-20 44per acre. Then one pass 60 an acre. Roll roll roll another fiver. Grass seed I spent 76 per acre going down tomorrow morning.
Meal per day is working out at 39c per animal. 0.75kg nuts @ 24c per kg. Soya 0.25kg @52c per kg. Barley 0.25kg @ 32c per kg. I hope maths are right. Probably could get a mix made up cheaper but wouldn't be looking for enough I reckon.

Kevhog1988

Ever feed soaked beet? I feed to horses and they really thrive on it

Kevhog1988

CloughCasey1 wrote: »

Spray is 30 an acre. Leave 10 days. FYM free and 5 on diesel per acre. 2 bags lime per acre 14. Spring harrrow up down and diaognal on back of mf135 another 5. 2 bags 10-10-20 44per acre. Then one pass 60 an acre. Roll roll roll another fiver. Grass seed I spent 76 per acre going down tomorrow morning.
Meal per day is working out at 39c per animal. 0.75kg nuts @ 24c per kg. Soya 0.25kg @52c per kg. Barley 0.25kg @ 32c per kg. I hope maths are right. Probably could get a mix made up cheaper but wouldn't be looking for enough I reckon.

What does fym mean ? I have a spring harrow already so that's handy. Also I can get large bags of grass seed here r £38 .. Is that good? Manure bag size

CloughCasey1

theemigrant wrote: »

What does fym mean ? I have a spring harrow already so that's handy. Also I can get large bags of grass seed here r £38 .. Is that good? Manure bag size

Dung. Ring up seed direct.ie. tell them the type of land you have and the varieties of grass that might suit it and how much clover you want to do all your Nitrogen after spring. Then compare to what you can get over there. You could be buying bags of seed that might not suit your ground so make sure you give them info.

Kevhog1988

i spoke to the auctioneer ans he has advised he thinks it will make 100k... is that just him blowing hot air??

jimini0

theemigrant wrote: »

i spoke to the auctioneer ans he has advised he thinks it will make 100k... is that just him blowing hot air??

that's around 13 grand an acre. Is there many sites on it? Auctioneers are shrude oporators. If they see land for sale with building potential on I they like to market it as land with sites.

Kevhog1988

jimini0 wrote: »

that's around 13 grand an acre. Is there many sites on it? Auctioneers are shrude oporators. If they see land for sale with building potential on I they like to market it as land with sites.

no real road frontage. have to travel up a narrow laneway to it

Username John

theemigrant wrote: »

i spoke to the auctioneer ans he has advised he thinks it will make 100k... is that just him blowing hot air??

Does he know who you are? And that you are bounds-ing? An thinks you are making a fortune over in England...

It's impossible to know if he is bull ****ting or not, he could be, the. He might not be either.
You could ask someone else to ring and enquire and see what story they get, but I dunno if this ever works.

To really find out I'd say you'd have to get serious, put in a bid and see what happens...

Edit : I would say he is bull****ting, I think they always are...

Kevhog1988

Username John wrote: »

Does he know who you are? And that you are bounds-ing? An thinks you are making a fortune over in England...

It's impossible to know if he is bull ****ting or not, he could be, the. He might not be either.
You could ask someone else to ring and enquire and see what story they get, but I dunno if this ever works.

To really find out I'd say you'd have to get serious, put in a bid and see what happens...

Edit : I would say he is bull****ting, I think they always are...

had done his homework n knew i was here and "qs's make a fortune". i just told him if i had his money id burn my own

Jimlh86

Auctioneers are always going to play the price up, after all the more the ground makes the bigger their cut! That being said the price will be dictated by how many bidders have the interest and cash to buy it!

Kevhog1988

Dad is Meeting the banks on Friday, Auctioneer has fairly changed his tune in the past week or so. We are hoping to submit an offer before the auction.

Willfarman

Public auction at least is is relatively transparent. Did you make any enquiries regarding sites?

Kevhog1988

Willfarman wrote: »

Public auction at least is is relatively transparent. Did you make any enquiries regarding sites?

the access area is small tbh. one gateway so would think only a site for myself. id be happy to pay approx 10k per acre given the location etc.

Reggie.

theemigrant wrote: »

Dad is Meeting the banks on Friday, Auctioneer has fairly changed his tune in the past week or so. We are hoping to submit an offer before the auction.

Good man I'll rent it off ya

Bullocks

theemigrant wrote: »

Dad is Meeting the banks on Friday, Auctioneer has fairly changed his tune in the past week or so. We are hoping to submit an offer before the auction.

Is it worth submitting an offer so soon before the auction? It will probably go to auction anyhow at this stage and an offer before hand will just help him get the price up to your offering price without any other bids .
Hope it goes well either way for you .

Kevhog1988

Bullocks wrote: »

Is it worth submitting an offer so soon before the auction? It will probably go to auction anyhow at this stage and an offer before hand will just help him get the price up to your offering price without any other bids .
Hope it goes well either way for you .

Cousin is an auctioneer but emigrated to nz , waiting her to reply to an email asking for advice

Willfarman

Definately don't bid before the auction. Like anything at auction then put your maximum value on it and be prepared to let it go. Be aware the auctioneer is allowed to prompt you along with phantom bids.

Willfarman

Willfarman wrote: »

Be aware the auctioneer is allowed to prompt you along with phantom bids.

I know it happens but is it really officially allowed...?

Willfarman

Deleted User wrote: »

I know it happens but is it really officially allowed...?

Yes there is no law against it. Picture the slimiest cunning double crossing utmost untrustworthy devil you can. Multiply ten fold and you are getting close to the average property auctioneer.

sea12

Willfarman wrote: »

Definately don't bid before the auction. Like anything at auction then put your maximum value on it and be prepared to let it go. Be aware the auctioneer is allowed to prompt you along with phantom bids.

Very good advice. Know your absolutely limit and stick to it. You could end up paying too much for it and not able to build your house after. You'll be left with 7 expensive acres.

Oh and get a solicitor to check access/ right of way and ensure there is no charge on the land. I know someone who had fire trouble closing sake with banks due to right of way issue. It will only cost you a small fee and it will be part of the overall fee if you are the duccessful bidder

sea12

sea12 wrote: »

Oh and get a solicitor to check access/ right of way and ensure there is no charge on the land.

You can view the folio yourself online for free and download it for 5 EUR at www.landdirect.ie . It will show if there are registered rights of way and also who the registered owner is and if its been registered as security by a Bank etc.
Sometimes you'll turn up useful information for the negotiation.

Kevhog1988

Auction is today. Not Going tho. Nreighbour going buyinh it and bank will only approve us for 70k.

Deepsouthwest

theemigrant wrote: »

Auction is today. Not Going tho. Nreighbour going buyinh it and bank will only approve us for 70k.

Don't mean to be smart, but u'd really want to be able to trust ur neighbour. Have seen situations like this go wrong plenty times before.

Reggie.

theemigrant wrote: »

Auction is today. Not Going tho. Nreighbour going buyinh it and bank will only approve us for 70k.

Do you mean he is buying it on your behalf?

mahoney_j

Deepsouthwest wrote: »

Don't mean to be smart, but u'd really want to be able to trust ur neighbour. Have seen situations like this go wrong plenty times before.

Agree there ,land dose strange things to people in this country including friends neighbours etc,I'd still go if u got the 70 k approved and you could end up surprised

Kevhog1988

Reggie. wrote: »

Do you mean he is buying it on your behalf?

No he will be buying for himself. Has a bit more buying power than me at the moment.

Willfarman

It might work out for luck. There will be land for sale again. But go to the auction and have a look see the craic.

Bellview

mahoney_j wrote: »

Agree there ,land dose strange things to people in this country including friends neighbours etc,I'd still go if u got the 70 k approved and you could end up surprised

completely agree.. if your not in you can't win.. recently there was land for sale next to parents 15 acres. one loud mouth gave his time shouting he would buy etc etc. He succeeded in putting off one good buyer (as he bought land in meantime) but when auction came he did not have the b$lls to buy the place himself despite all the talk.. Only advice is do your own thing and don't be distracted by what you think others may or may-not do

Kevhog1988

Wont be there. Im currently digging outside Birmingham Town Hall.

Deepsouthwest

theemigrant wrote: »

No he will be buying for himself. Has a bit more buying power than me at the moment.

A bit confused here, does this mean that u have dropped ur interest in the 7.5 acres and ur neighbour is now buying it?