Renting: Confirming salary / Bank statement

Jambonjunior

I've agreed to lease a property and have been asked to provide details of my salary or a bank statement. I've nothing to hide and can afford the rent but feel uncomfortable providing that kind of private information. Is asking for these details normal?

I've already provided work references that I have a permanent full-time job, should that not suffice?

mel123

Yes I was asked for it as well when I started renting. I blacked out nearly everything on a bank statement, and just left my salary going in on it, and that was enough for them. I wasn't comfortable with it at all, but it was a deal breaker apparently. For the record it was an agency rather than a private LL.

Barely Hedged

Jambonjunior wrote: »

I've agreed to lease a property and have been asked to provide details of my salary or a bank statement. I've nothing to hide and can afford the rent but feel uncomfortable providing that kind of private information. Is asking for these details normal?

I've already provided work references that I have a permanent full-time job, should that not suffice?

Perhaps the owner of said property is uncomfortable leasing a property (which is probably worth many multiples of your annual salary?) without knowing your ability to repay or your credit worthiness?

ec18

I had the same issue last year where the landlord wanted three months of full transaction history......I wasn't comfortable handing over that much private data so walked away.

SusanC10

I am not in this position but would much rather hand over a salary cert than banking details if given the choice. I certainly would not give full transaction details.

Wabbit Ears

I'd show them bank statements but not allow them to keep them or copy them.

Tbh few things are as boring as my bank statements and there's nothing in them that anyone would raise an eyebrow at. It's not like they actually list what I purchase.

Want rented accommodation this day in age? Put your big boy pants on!

gordongekko

I'd walk away. You are signing a contract to pay for the property for a set period of time. If you fail to pay they can take you to court.

matrim

I've refused a place because they wanted this. I'll provide work and previous landlord references but they have no need to know my salary and if they insist then I just move on.

Barely Hedged

matrim wrote: »

I've refused a place because they wanted this. I'll provide work and previous landlord references but they have no need to know my salary and if they insist then I just move on.

How is a previous landlord's reference independently veverifiable?

How does a work reference prove you are credit worthy and will be a performing tenant?

matrim

Barely Hedged wrote: »

How is a previous landlord's reference independently veverifiable?

How does a work reference prove you are credit worthy and will be a performing tenant?

It doesn't but I'm not supplying my salary details to a landlord. Even if I don't mind showing my salary details to a third party, showing a landlord puts you at a disadvantage when it comes to negotiating rent increases.

As for credit worthy would you say the same if I asked for his salary details? Because as a tenant how do I know he isn't in arrears with the bank and I'll suddenly get turfed out? Or has paid up with the management company and I'll wake up one morning to my car being clamped? Or he can afford any repairs that are needed?

JohnBee

gordongekko wrote: »

I'd walk away. You are signing a contract to pay for the property for a set period of time. If you fail to pay they can take you to court.

Ah yes, and we all know how that works, one year later, tenant still in property. Perhaps eventually kick them out. Long drawn out process. End result usually with landlord losing rent for that period, perhaps now their mortgage is in arrears.

Seriously why is this a problem? You go to buy a car and they do a credit check. Whats the big deal? Doesnt it make perfect sense for the landlord to find out beforehand?

Barely Hedged

matrim wrote: »

It doesn't but I'm not supplying my salary details to a landlord. Even if I don't mind showing my salary details to a third party, showing a landlord puts you at a disadvantage when it comes to negotiating rent increases.

As for credit worthy would you say the same if I asked for his salary details? Because as a tenant how do I know he isn't in arrears with the bank and I'll suddenly get turfed out? Or has paid up with the management company and I'll wake up one morning to my car being clamped? Or he can afford any repairs that are needed?

So what you're saying is that the proof you're providing isn't worth the paper it's written on? Why the refusal to accept that somebody handing you control of a valuable asset will look for something more than the price of a piece of paper?

How does it put you at a disadvantage? He increases the rent, you don't accept that it's the market rate and you move on or negotiate. Why would you end up paying more because he/she knows how much you earn?

A management company clamping your car for non payment of management fees is illegal.

As for the rest of your points - how many people have you heard this happening to?

Jambonjunior

Barely Hedged wrote: »

Perhaps the owner of said property is uncomfortable leasing a property (which is probably worth many multiples of your annual salary?) without knowing your ability to repay or your credit worthiness?

It is clear from my reference from my employer that I earn enough to cover the rent, why do they need to get my specific salary? I've never disclosed that to anyone else, I don't really want it kept on file at some agents office.

txt_mess

I know in my previous job I used to have to provide letters for landlords to confirm the person was working for the company, I always assumed it was to show they have a job and a capacity to pay.

As far as handing over my bank statement if you have paid a deposit plus a month in advance that should be enough to show you capable no need for bank statements.

VisibleGorilla

I've been asked the same and like others have simply refused and found alternate accommodation without these demands.

I'd never give that information to an independent landlord or an agency, it is none of their business at all.

A letter of employment will show you are currently employed and have money coming in.

MarkAnthony

I ask for it and am happy to provide the tenant with access to my profit and loss account showing the mortgage going out, rent coming in, management fee being paid and repairs being carried out. I work on the basis of what's good for the goose is good for the gander.

I've never understood this Irish obsession with 'data'. OMGZZZ me privacy is being invaded, but as soon as the boot is on the other foot the person protecting data is a 'jobs worth'.

Until we move into at least the 20th century in relation to credit referencing it's a rock and a hard place. If you don't like it walk, they'll be a queue behind you with the market the way it is.

KERSPLAT!

I was asked to provide it when looking at a property, we weren't interested in the end but I wouldn't have handed over my bank account details in any case. A deposit and first month up front should be enough, IMO.

Barely Hedged

Jambonjunior wrote: »

It is clear from my reference from my employer that I earn enough to cover the rent, why do they need to get my specific salary? I've never disclosed that to anyone else, I don't really want it kept on file at some agents office.

How does a reference from your employer prove youre credit worthy ie you will pay and have paid your rent regularly in the past?

What's the main issue with revealing your salary when entering into a transaction with large financial implications? You do it on a credit card statement?

Barely Hedged

txt_mess wrote: »

I know in my previous job I used to have to provide letters for landlords to confirm the person was working for the company, I always assumed it was to show they have a job and a capacity to pay.

As far as handing over my bank statement if you have paid a deposit plus a month in advance that should be enough to show you capable no need for bank statements.

The reality is, it doesn't. So what next?

syklops

Barely Hedged wrote: »

How is a previous landlord's reference independently veverifiable?

Contact the previous landlord and ask them Did you rent to Johnny? Was he a good tenant? Rent paid on time etc? Thats how references work.

Barely Hedged wrote: »

How does a work reference prove you are credit worthy and will be a performing tenant?

How does the bank statement do this? Money goes in, money goes out. The bank statement doesnt show you the 5 maxed out credit cards he or she might have.

OP, I get a letter from payroll stating you earn X amount. Or if you have a recent tax form, it will have your yearly salary on it. Your LL doesnt need to see your spending habits.

Barely Hedged

VisibleGorilla wrote: »

I've been asked the same and like others have simply refused and found alternate accommodation without these demands.

I'd never give that information to an independent landlord or an agency, it is none of their business at all.

A letter of employment will show you are currently employed and have money coming in.

Not worth the paper it's written on. Do you accept that it's prudent to hand over control of an asset that can be worth several hundred thousand Euro for the price of a piece of paper?

Barely Hedged

syklops wrote: »

Contact the previous landlord and ask them Did you rent to Johnny? Was he a good tenant? Rent paid on time etc? Thats how references work.



How does the bank statement do this? Money goes in, money goes out. The bank statement doesnt show you the 5 maxed out credit cards he or she might have.

OP, I get a letter from payroll stating you earn X amount. Or if you have a recent tax form, it will have your yearly salary on it. Your LL doesnt need to see your spending habits.

That's not indepently verifiable though is it? How do you know you're ringing his previous landlord and not his/her friend?

It shows you have paid your rent. How does a salary cert prove you've paid your rent?

JohnBee

KERSPLAT! wrote: »

I was asked to provide it when looking at a property, we weren't interested in the end but I wouldn't have handed over my bank account details in any case. A deposit and first month up front should be enough, IMO.

How on earth does paying deposit and first month indicate that a potential tenant has ability to pay the rent on an on-going basis? I have done it each time I rented in the past.

Get over it, black out any bits you dont want landlord to see, it is perfectly reasonable. You cant buy a car without doing a credit check, get over it, if you dont like it rent somewhere else.

snubbleste

Obviously OP, ask the landlord for his bank statement, proof that he owns the property, that he is not in arrears on his mortgage and a current tax clearance certificate.

Jambonjunior

Barely Hedged wrote: »

How does a reference from your employer prove youre credit worthy ie you will pay and have paid your rent regularly in the past?

How does my salary prove I'm credit worthy?

My landlord references prove I'm paid my rent regularly in the past.

Barely Hedged

snubbleste wrote: »

Obviously OP, ask the landlord for his bank statement, proof that he owns the property, that he is not in arrears on his mortgage and a current tax clearance certificate.

Say we move 10 years into the future and we don't have the issue with a small part of the rental sector being in mortgage arrears. What will be you're excuse then?

syklops

Barely Hedged wrote: »

That's not indepently verifiable though is it? How do you know you're ringing his previous landlord and not his/her friend?

Well obviously you don't use the number they provide, you look the persons name up in the phone book, or get their details from the PRTB.

What in your book would be an independently verifiable?

It shows you have paid your rent. How does a salary cert prove you've paid your rent?

So you dont want a bank statement from the past month, you want their bank statements from the last year indicating their rent being paid into the landlords account?

VisibleGorilla

Barely Hedged wrote: »

Not worth the paper it's written on. Do you accept that it's prudent to hand over control of an asset that can be worth several hundred thousand Euro for the price of a piece of paper?

A bank statement isn't worth much either.

I can make my bank statement say whatever I want so Mr. Landlord will be happy as larry, useless.

gordongekko

Barely Hedged wrote: »

How does a reference from your employer prove youre credit worthy ie you will pay and have paid your rent regularly in the past?

What's the main issue with revealing your salary when entering into a transaction with large financial implications? You do it on a credit card statement?

I'd happily provide an icb credit report so. My bank details are between me and God.

gaius c

If landlord thinks they are entitled to see your bank statements then they should be volunteering to show their mortgage statements to prove that they are capable of keeping up their own financial obligations.

syklops

gordongekko wrote: »

I'd happily provide an icb credit report so. My bank details are between me and God.

And the bank

ec18

JohnBee wrote: »

Get over it, black out any bits you dont want landlord to see, it is perfectly reasonable. You cant buy a car without doing a credit check, get over it, if you dont like it rent somewhere else.

Just on this some landlords will insist on full transaction history with nothing blacked out.

Barely Hedged

syklops wrote: »

Well obviously you don't use the number they provide, you look the persons name up in the phone book, or get their details from the PRTB.

What in your book would be an independently verifiable?

So you dont want a bank statement from the past month, you want their bank statements from the last year indicating their rent being paid into the landlords account?

You look the person's name up in the phone book? How do you know you're not looking up his friend?

The PRTB will not release those details.

Will a landlord give a bad tenant a glowing reference to shift them on?

Independently verifiable is exactly what it means - a third party provides evidence.

Where did I say statements for the past year. Three months would be more than enough

gordongekko

syklops wrote: »

And the bank

I learnt a long time ago to never but all your eggs in the one basket so the bank don't know my status either.

Jambonjunior

Barely Hedged wrote: »

You look the person's name up in the phone book? How do you know you're not looking up his friend?

The PRTB will not release those details.

Will a landlord give a bad tenant a glowing reference to shift them on?

Independently verifiable is exactly what it means - a third party provides evidence.

Where did I say statements for the past year. Three months would be more than enough

Would multiple reliable landlord references but enough to satisfy you or is only bank statements going to do it?

syklops

Barely Hedged wrote: »

You look the person's name up in the phone book? How do you know you're not looking up his friend?

OK, so references aren't worth the paper they are printed on. So why did you ask for one?

The PRTB will not release those details.

Yes they will

Will a landlord give a bad tenant a glowing reference to shift them on?

I doubt it.

Independently verifiable is exactly what it means - a third party provides evidence.

Thats nice but such a service does not currently exist in Ireland.

Where did I say statements for the past year. Three months would be more than enough

But that only shows they've paid for the past three months. Plus:

Paid 1200 to account number 56781245 on a bank statement means nothing. That could be going to paddy power for all you know.

CaoimheSquee

MarkAnthony wrote: »

I ask for it and am happy to provide the tenant with access to my profit and loss account showing the mortgage going out, rent coming in, management fee being paid and repairs being carried out. I work on the basis of what's good for the goose is good for the gander.

.

This.

The amount of tenants finding themselves in receivership situations it should most definitely be a two way thing these days.

dissed doc

Jambonjunior wrote: »

I've agreed to lease a property and have been asked to provide details of my salary or a bank statement. I've nothing to hide and can afford the rent but feel uncomfortable providing that kind of private information. Is asking for these details normal?

I've already provided work references that I have a permanent full-time job, should that not suffice?

Well if they want a confirmation of your salary (i.e., ability to pay, that rent is for example no more than 1/3 of your salary), and you don't give it, you might not get the tenancy.

I would say it is becoming normal, due to the risks the property owner is exposed to. You don't have to provide it though (but they don't have to give you the tenancy!).

KERSPLAT!

JohnBee wrote: »

How on earth does paying deposit and first month indicate that a potential tenant has ability to pay the rent on an on-going basis? I have done it each time I rented in the past.

Get over it, black out any bits you dont want landlord to see, it is perfectly reasonable. You cant buy a car without doing a credit check, get over it, if you dont like it rent somewhere else.

I didn't like it, so I did rent elsewhere...

With regards to your first point, I could earn 50k a year and still not be able to afford 1k a month rent, a salary going into my account means nothing when you can't see wherer that salary is being spent. I might make 50k but I could be in debt of 100k or I could make 25k and have 0 debt.

Barely Hedged

VisibleGorilla wrote: »

A bank statement isn't worth much either.

I can make my bank statement say whatever I want so Mr. Landlord will be happy as larry, useless.

Really. How does that work with an original statement?

Barely Hedged

CaoimheSquee wrote: »

This.

The amount of tenants finding themselves in receivership situations it should most definitely be a two way thing these days.

Have you got numbers for the amount of tenants it's happening to?

The Randy Riverbeast

Barely Hedged wrote: »

How is a previous landlord's reference independently veverifiable?

How does a work reference prove you are credit worthy and will be a performing tenant?

Your bank statements wouldnt do that either. The most info you'll get is that they earn more than the rent is and you have to trust the tenant that the bank statement hasnt been altered. Give me 10 minutes and I could have my account saying I could buy the house in cash every week. Its paper with words and numbers on it.

Barely Hedged

The Randy Riverbeast wrote: »

Your bank statements wouldnt do that either. The most info you'll get is that they earn more than the rent is and you have to trust the tenant that the bank statement hasnt been altered. Give me 10 minutes and I could have my account saying I could buy the house in cash every week. Its paper with words and numbers on it.

It shows the outflow of their rent each month ie they pay their rent.

Can you explain how you would alter an original bank statement?

Jambonjunior

The Randy Riverbeast wrote: »

Your bank statements wouldnt do that either. The most info you'll get is that they earn more than the rent is and you have to trust the tenant that the bank statement hasnt been altered. Give me 10 minutes and I could have my account saying I could buy the house in cash every week. Its paper with words and numbers on it.

I really don't see the required distinction between "X works works here full-time" and "X is paid y", when it's a safe assumption from the former that X earns enough to cover the rent. Is there really much of extra comfort in knowing the exact amount?

CaoimheSquee

Barely Hedged wrote: »

Have you got numbers for the amount of tenants it's happening to?

If it hasn't occurred to you or someone you know first hand that the risk having to move from somewhere you currently rent because the landlord has lost their property to the bank then you are lucky indeed!

There is a major housing crisis in the country and repossessions and and receiverships are unfortunately horrendously common now with out of date legislation written in a different time.

I am not sure why you need an exact number to know this is quite the norm these days.

Fair is fair. I will prove I can pay the rent comfortably if you can prove I won't be getting a letter from a receiver saying I will be getting the boot soon through no fault of my own. Simples!

VisibleGorilla

Barely Hedged wrote: »

Really. How does that work with an original statement?

Is your world coming crashing down now that the bank statements you've received mean absolutely nothing?

Barely Hedged

CaoimheSquee wrote: »

If it hasn't occurred to you or someone you know first hand that the risk having to move from somewhere you currently rent because the landlord has lost their property to the bank then you are lucky indeed!

There is a major housing crisis in the country and repossessions and and receiverships are unfortunately horrendously common now with out of date legislation written in a different time.

I am not sure why you need an exact number to know this is quite the norm these days.

Fair is fair. I will prove I can pay the rent comfortably if you can prove I won't be getting a letter from a receiver saying I will be getting the boot soon through no fault of my own. Simples!

Nothing but emotive hyperbole in that post. Not an ounce of objective evidence presented

Barely Hedged

VisibleGorilla wrote: »

Is your world coming crashing down now that the bank statements you've received mean absolutely nothing?

You never explained how you could alter an original bank statement issued by the bank?

VisibleGorilla

Barely Hedged wrote: »

You never explained how you could alter an original bank statement issued by the bank?

I don't really need to go into the exact process.

Anything can be altered, and this can be done quite easily.

It just goes to shows you that demanding for this information is useless, I wouldn't even go to the bother of altering it, I'd just refuse and move onto the next property and I'd recommend others to do the same.

dissed doc

Although it would be easily faked, it would be extremely useful potentially if if a tenant stopped paying. A feature of the lease may be that the salary of the tenant is at least e.g., 3 times the rent and that if that is not so, the contract is invalid and cannot proceed.

If the tenant submits faked salary certs or bank statements, it would make the lease null and void from the beginning. Thus bypassing PTRB as the tenancy could only exist if both parties signed the lease as per the requirements. This is not dissimilar to lying on insurance applications, and subsequently finding your insurance claim denied as you supplied invalid information thus nullifying the contract.

If there was a still a PTRB claim, the documents could be assessed easily, and a lying tenant from the beginning would be easy to identify. Anything can be faked but requiring the salary certs simply protects the honest landlord and the honest tenant; it is only negative for the dishonest tenant who is then on paper showing they faked or mislead the landlord. Is there really a problem with this?

Barely Hedged

VisibleGorilla wrote: »

I don't really need to go into the exact process.

Anything can be altered, and this can be done quite easily.

It just goes to shows you that demanding for this information is useless, I wouldn't even go to the bother of altering it, I'd just refuse and move onto the next property and I'd recommend others to do the same.

You can't go into the process because you know you can't alter it.

Yep advocating a system where people abdicate or game the system is forward thinking!