Eircode - its implemetation (merged)

Sam Russell

gctest50 wrote: »

and what reason would anyone who you have not shared your Eircode with need to send you something ?

Perhaps a Christmas card. I do not know the Eircode of a single relative in Ireland and those without unique addresses I have no way of ascertaining one for them. If An Post required them, I could not send many out.

MBSnr

gctest50 wrote: »

and what reason would anyone who you have not shared your Eircode with need to send you something ?

Erm... You do realise that packages arrive without Eircodes on them even though they were ordered with an Eircode...
Courier has my address but can't find out my Eircode from it - therefore cannot find the house without phoning me.

gctest50

Sam Russell wrote: »

Perhaps a Christmas card. I do not know the Eircode of a single relative in Ireland and those without unique addresses I have no way of ascertaining one for them. If An Post required them, I could not send many out.

Do you know where any of their houses are ?

my3cents

blade1 wrote: »

Just curious,
What are the reasons you think an post need it for?

Exactly the same reason that anyone else in a rural area with non unique addresses and multiple families with the same name so they right person gets the right mail.

Then it could also make it easier to train new/replacement postman. The currant system has the old postman taking the new guy around to each address so they can make hand made notes on all the addresses on the route. Hmmm there's one for the Data Protection people.

As I said my postman uses Eircode on his own personal phone because it makes life easier for him. The amount of hassle he'd get if someone read personal mail that should have gone to another person with the same name makes it well worth his time and effort checking.

TheChizler

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It's very simple to make its adoption widespread, whenever new customers sign up for anything that requires a name & address, just be sure to make providing the postcode mandatory as part of the registration process.

The main reason users are slow to adopt the postcodes is simply down to businesses not being proactive in using them. Just because the systems are not currently in place to make full use of them, it shouldn't prevent organisations from adding the customer's postcodes to their records now, rather than trying to get them later.

I agree that would work but I think they were saying they should have been made compulsory legally, which I don't think is practical. Or necessary.

my3cents

TheChizler wrote: »

I agree that would work but I think they were saying they should have been made compulsory legally, which I don't think is practical. Or necessary.

I can remember when the postcodes were first sent out on the UK it wasn't long before there was an ad campaign that indicated that any mail without a postcode could be held up, what better reason to use it.

Sam Russell

my3cents wrote: »

I can remember when the postcodes were first sent out on the UK it wasn't long before there was an ad campaign that indicated that any mail without a postcode could be held up, what better reason to use it.

... if the postage rate was less - as in the Leap Card.

gctest50

Sam Russell wrote: »

... if the postage rate was less - as in the Leap Card.

That's the best idea yet

Have Eircode - standard rate

No Eircode - double rate ( 2 stamps or whatever )

my3cents

gctest50 wrote: »

That's the best idea yet

Have Eircode - standard rate

No Eircode - double rate ( 2 stamps or whatever )

You could even sell that to An Post.

gctest50

.
It could be a bit like Ryanair when you don't have your ticket printed off ............. surcharge time

Sam Russell

gctest50 wrote: »

That's the best idea yet

Have Eircode - standard rate

No Eircode - double rate ( 2 stamps or whatever )

I would have thought:

Have Eircode - 60 cents

No Eircode - 70 cents. (which is the current standard rate)

Let us not encourage An Post to profiteer.

gctest50

Sam Russell wrote: »

..............

Let us not encourage An Post to profiteer.

It woudn't be profiteering though - stick an "incomplete address" kinda sticker on it

Full address = address including Eircode

Incomplete address = address with no Eircode

An Post could use

or

It's not that difficult to get the message out there.

anothernight

I would agree, except for the fact that Eircode is currently optional. They should make it an official part of addresses before telling people that their address is incomplete without their Eircode. Why would most people bother to use an optional parameter when they've been doing just fine (in their minds, not necessarily always true) without it? But if they're told that the postcode must be part of their address, they will use it. No need to increase complexity in postal costs or anything. People in other countries cope with postcodes as an official part of their addresses just fine. Irish people would too, if only Eircode had been set up as a non-optional parameter.

I don't know if they still do it, but at least a few years ago An Post would mark your letters as wrongly addressed, even if they made it to your house (delays might happen, but they often did get there in the end). If Eircode was compulsory they could easily do that, even if the letters would still reach their destination without the Eircode. People would cop on eventually and start using it.


As it stands, with delivery companies not using it, An Post not requiring them, and the Eircode website spelling out that nothing will happen if people don't use it, why would people in easy-to-reach areas bother to use it?

https://www.eircode.ie/faqs wrote:

What will happen if I do not use an Eircode?
Nothing, some private organisations may require an Eircode in the future so if you choose not to use Eircode you may not be able to purchase/deal with these companies.

I hadn't read the FAQs in full before. They read like the people who came up with Eircode went out of their way to make it as unappealing to use as possible:
"What are the benefits? Facilitating deliveries... by companies that won't bother to implement it in their IT systems because they don't want to pay for it."
"Will An Post use it? Nope"
"Will my post arrive without it? Yup"
"Will my post arrive with only Eircode? An Post requires a full address before they will attempt delivery"

Marked exception being emergency services. The Eircode website does say that they'll be using it from September (2015, I assume). Can't be bothered to google to see if this has materialised, but I really hope it has.

Carawaystick

gctest50 wrote: »

That's the best idea yet

Have Eircode - standard rate

No Eircode - double rate ( 2 stamps or whatever )

Luckily, unlike public sector public transit, Mail delivery is deregulated, meaning private companies can deliver post for less than the Post can.

Also you could post it in Newry or Strabane...

ukoda

Sam Russell wrote: »

If you have a non-unique address and you do not know where the property is on an OS map, it is not possible to find the Eircode except by asking the addressee - which is not much use if you do not know them.

your statement is true, but where it falls down is that theres no real scenario it applies to.

for what purpose exactly do you want this persons eircode?
who visits people they do not know and for what purpose?

the scenarios in day to day life i can think of are:

Deliveries: should have the eircode as part of address, if not you can ask them
Visiting friends and family: you do know them so you can ask
repair /service people: as per deliveries above

i genuinely don't understand the scenario of "i want the persons eircode but i don't know them and can't ask them"?

its a bit like saying: "if i drive my car to the moon, theres no possible way of refuelling it when i get there....therefore theres an issue with petrol stations"

Sam Russell

ukoda wrote: »

your statement is true, but where it falls down is that theres no real scenario it applies to.

for what purpose exactly do you want this persons eircode?
who visits people they do not know and for what purpose?

the scenarios in day to day life i can think of are:

Deliveries: should have the eircode as part of address, if not you can ask them
Visiting friends and family: you do know them so you can ask
repair /service people: as per deliveries above

i genuinely don't understand the scenario of "i want the persons eircode but i don't know them and can't ask them"?

its a bit like saying: "if i drive my car to the moon, theres no possible way of refuelling it when i get there....therefore theres an issue with petrol stations"

This is the scenario.

A person I know has moved to a new address which I have not visited and is a non-unique address. I do not feel I know them well enough to ask them for their Eircode as I just exchange Christmas cards with them and do not have their phone number. I think that they may think it is an intrusion to ask for their Eircode as many would think it is personal information. (I know that strictly speaking it is not but that does not stop people thinking it so - particularly those in non-unique address areas).

I would have thought this was not uncommon.

I am talking about cousins, nephew/nieces that I generally only see at weddings and funerals but we keep in touch by exchanging Christmas cards with family news included. I can think of at least a dozen people in that category for me.

blade1

Why can't the person moving to the new area just let the local Post Office know where they have moved to?
Surely it's not that big a deal.

ukoda

Sam Russell wrote: »

This is the scenario.

A person I know has moved to a new address which I have not visited and is a non-unique address. I do not feel I know them well enough to ask them for their Eircode as I just exchange Christmas cards with them and do not have their phone number. I think that they may think it is an intrusion to ask for their Eircode as many would think it is personal information. (I know that strictly speaking it is not but that does not stop people thinking it so - particularly those in non-unique address areas).

I would have thought this was not uncommon.

I am talking about cousins, nephew/nieces that I generally only see at weddings and funerals but we keep in touch by exchanging Christmas cards with family news included. I can think of at least a dozen people in that category for me.

Well for your first scenario, the fact that it's a new address means you have absolutely no way of sending them a Christmas card unless you specifically ask them for their new address, they may by default include the eircode anyway if it's non unique, if not, I see no reason not to ask for it. or if they don't give you their eircode as part of their new address, then simply dont use it, send to the address minus the eircode and let An Post worry about it. either way, you've no scenario blocked

For your second scenario, you can continue to post your Christmas cards to the cousins as eircode isn't mandatory, so you've no need or reason to ask them for it. But again, there'd be no harm in doing so at the next family gathering.

Sam Russell

So basically you are saying ignore Eircode. Also we should ignore the €38m that it cost.

It will soon equal the €55m that eVoting cost us - let me know how that worked out.

ukoda

Sam Russell wrote: »

So basically you are saying ignore Eircode. Also we should ignore the €38m that it cost.

It will soon equal the €55m that eVoting cost us - let me know how that worked out.

you must have missed the part there where i said to ask them for it when they give you their new address or in the other scenario ask at family gatherings.

if you're worried your family won't disclose their postcode to you, then your problem can't be fixed by any other postcode either.

are you looking to change the topic now and argue about the costs? sorry I'm not biting.

your theoretical "problem" with not being able to find a non unique addresses postcode is bogus, its a manufactured issued by you that doesn't really exist in practice

gizmo555

Sam Russell wrote: »

Also we should ignore the €38m that it cost.

It's a sunk cost. In any consideration of the merits or otherwise of Eircode now that it's implemented, it should be ignored.

Sam Russell

ukoda wrote: »

you must have missed the part there where i said to ask them for it when they give you their new address or in the other scenario ask at family gatherings.

'How are things going? And by the way, what's your Eircode?'

I don't think so.

if you're worried your family won't disclose their postcode to you, then your problem can't be fixed by any other postcode either.

In the UK, I just type in the address and I get the postcode - no bother.

are you looking to change the topic now and argue about the costs? sorry I'm not biting.

No just equating one monumental disasterous waste with another.

your theoretical "problem" with not being able to find a non unique addresses postcode is bogus, its a manufactured issued by you that doesn't really exist in practice

No, it is actually a problem that has arisen because I am not certain even postie knows where they live.

my3cents

Sam Russell wrote: »

'How are things going? And by the way, what's your Eircode?'

I don't think so.

LOL you probably rant on the same way to your relatives as you do here if you think they'd be unhappy to tell you what their address is including their Eircode.

Either that or you have some very strange relatives.

ukoda

Sam Russell wrote: »

'How are things going? And by the way, what's your Eircode?'

I don't think so.


In the UK, I just type in the address and I get the postcode - no bother.


No just equating one monumental disasterous waste with another.



No, it is actually a problem that has arisen because I am not certain even postie knows where they live.

"did you get my christmas card last year? i must take your eircode to add to your address......"

UK has unique addressing, thats where the bother comes from in Ireland, but thats not eircodes fault, however it can fix it if everyone gets on board with eircode and starts doing things like adding it to their "return" address when they do send out their christmas cards to you and others, then after a while it becomes common and eventually meaning that if you have their address then it will just include their eircode as its now commonplace.

there are people who look at everything and find problems, and there are people who can look at something and find solutions.

oscarBravo

Sam Russell wrote: »

So basically you are saying ignore Eircode.

There's something deeply disingenuous about quoting someone, and then saying "so basically what you are saying is <something completely different from what they said>".

If you have to ask someone for their new address, ask them for their Eircode at the same time. If they don't want to tell you their Eircode, they won't. If someone asks me to remind them of my address (several people seem to need to do this each year), I include the Eircode, and they can decide whether or not to use it.

None of this amounts to ignoring Eircode. It's all part of the process of gradual adoption. If you have a problem with gradual adoption, make the case for making the codes compulsory - but you don't get to make the case while still bleating about privacy issues.

As for e-voting, there are basically no parallels, beyond the fact that the government spent money on both of them.

GJG

Sam Russell wrote: »

This is the scenario.

A person I know has moved to a new address which I have not visited and is a non-unique address. I do not feel I know them well enough to ask them for their Eircode as I just exchange Christmas cards with them and do not have their phone number. I think that they may think it is an intrusion to ask for their Eircode as many would think it is personal information. (I know that strictly speaking it is not but that does not stop people thinking it so - particularly those in non-unique address areas).

I would have thought this was not uncommon.

I think that this is quite typical of the objections to Eircode; you don't seem to appreciate that this objection is actually not an objection to Eircode at all; could you suggest any type of postcode that would have avoided the perceived problem? I don't think so. There is no postcode that could solve your problem (other than the "I wouldn't start from here" solutions), because your problem is an interpersonal problem, not an address problem, not an Eircode problem.

Only in Ireland would people expect the government to solve their problems of social awkwardness where they feel shy to ask for someone's full address to send them a Christmas card. The fact that you were bold enough to get their address in the first place but too shy to ask for their Eircode speaks volumes. That you imagine the design of the national postcode system should be centred around some unknown solution to that problem takes the biscuit.

When Skype or mobile phones came out, nobody knew anyone's ID or number to start with. We got over it. It's time for you to build a bridge and do the same thing.

BowWow

Signed some documents relating to a house purchase the week before Christmas - Solicitor asked for, and put eircode on documents. Seemingly doing this with all documents to insure accuracy.

ukoda

So here's eBay pointing a customer to finder.eircode.ie because he didn't know he had a postcode

https://twitter.com/askebay/status/681904870862000128



https://twitter.com/askebay/status/681904913832656896

Alun

I bought a washing machine in Power City yesterday, and they had a field for Eircode on their address form the salesman was filling in. Now, he didn't ask me for it, but I offered it to him (yes, I am one if those non-existent people who know theirs!) and he filled it in. I asked if they used it and he confirmed they do use it for deliveries to out of the way locations. I assume the drivers use their phones, but didn't inquire further.