You Don't Have The Right To Unplug Another EV !

The ESB have made this very clear, you do not have the right to unplug another EV while it's charging !

I wouldn't mind at a fast charger where EV's were not intended to charge above 80% but not at a AC point.

I took down the picture of this Leaf in question after official contact from the ESB, it may have been a fault with the charger and apologies if this is the case to the leaf owner.

homer911

Is there an charging station etiquette statement on this forum? Would it help to create one and petition the ESB to include this when they send out cards?

homer911

homer911 wrote: »

Is there an charging station etiquette statement on this forum? Would it help to create one and petition the ESB to include this when they send out cards?

No statement on this forum and it wouldn't be valid unless it's official from the ESB.

The ESB will be making an announcement publicly on their FB page and their Ecars site.

In my opinion though cars shouldn't be left unattended at DC fast chargers, not without a note and/or phone number.

AC points are designed to be used for much longer and you can go about your business. There should be a 2-3 hr max stay but I understand it's not always easy to get back to the car in time. Brings me back to the point about the 6.6 Kw charger in the Leaf, if there is a time limit introduced then people will greatly appreciate the more powerful charger. 25-90% in about 2 hrs give or take.

The Blanchardstown site needs a lot more AC points I never saw so many electrics in one location. I saw a few turn around and leave because there were no available chargers.

You can plug someone out when the car is finished charging either AC or DC in my opinion anyway and not when it's charging.

The DC fast chargers shouldn't allow more than a 80-85% max charge. It takes too long to get to 100%.

homer911

Some basic rules should be posted at every charge point where possible

DrPhilG

I wouldn't agree with capping a fast charger at 85%.

On the odd ooccasion I go to Dublin, I usually charge to 100 or close in Monaghan as I need it to reach the Lusk Applegreen.

I could go across to Applegreen at Castlebellingham but the last time I did that the FCPs were both down and I had to use the SCP (no fun at 11pm when you're knackered).

Of course common sense and etiquette means that if someone else needed to charge to 80 I'd let them in and then jump back on when they're finished. But I need at least 90 to get from there to Lusk without serious squeaky bum time.

cros13

Deleted User wrote: »

In my opinion though cars shouldn't be left unattended at DC fast chargers, not without a note and/or phone number

+1

Deleted User wrote: »

The Blanchardstown site needs a lot more AC points I never saw so many electrics in one location. I saw a few turn around and leave because there were no available chargers.

Agree on the AC. Blanch is a bad place for a rapid. It should have been sited at the M3 Parkway.

DrPhilG wrote: »

I wouldn't agree with capping a fast charger at 85%.

On the odd ooccasion I go to Dublin, I usually charge to 100 or close in Monaghan as I need it to reach the Lusk Applegreen.

Given the distances between CCS I sometime need to charge beyond 80% as well. I think Mad_Lad means that the charge should stop and require manual restarting... a confirmation of a sort.

cros13

cros13 wrote: »

Given the distances between CCS I sometime need to charge beyond 80% as well. I think Mad_Lad means that the charge should stop and require manual restarting... a confirmation of a sort.

I didn't actually, :P But that actually makes sense, manually having to restart and if you leave your car then expect to be plugged out. Cros you got the jenny anyway so why would you waste the time ?

The ESB discourage more than 80%, they've said this on their FB page. Electrics were not intended to use the DC chargers beyond 80% and this is one reason charge times are only quoted to 80%.

Cros, maybe you'd allow someone in to charge if you're 80% + but there are many who wont and I met a lady more than a few times at newlands cross who wouldn't unplug until 97% or close and this was between 2 and 3am on all occasions, oh and once during the day. Real pain in the ass.

Charging beyond 80% is inefficient use of the chargers.

pwurple

Deleted User wrote: »

Cros, maybe you'd allow someone in to charge if you're 80% + but there are many who wont and I met a lady more than a few times at newlands cross who wouldn't unplug until 97% or close and this was between 2 and 3am on all occasions, oh and once during the day. Real pain in the ass.

Charging beyond 80% is inefficient use of the chargers.

The problem there is a lack of available chargers. Not forcing the EV drivers into some sort of weird etiquette. That's going to just piss people off and reduce EV uptake. Concentrate your efforts on appealing to local Political representation.

After my trip to Dublin I was honestly shocked at the state of affairs up there. Ratty EV drivers fighting over chargers, and the vast majority of the chargers were iced. It's appalling. I decided never to bring my own up there again, and that kind of messing about and inconvenience is exactly what's going to put people off buying an electric vehicle in the first place. My uncle was asking me about the car, I said I loved it, but as he lives in Dublin, forget about it.

In cork we have Simon Coveney championing the setup. It makes a MASSIVE difference in the attitude of the council to have a local heavy hitter with this on their agenda. I've never come across an iced space in Cork. And all the other local perks (free parking, free tolls) are very good incentives.

Get down to the Td clinics and show them what can be done . http://drive4zero.ie/

Dexter1979

Ecotricity state theirs should be used for 30 minutes and no more. Some fast chargers in Holland have a per minute charge to encourage this. Stay longer than you need, it will cost you. In case of a Leaf it means you would stop at 80% as the next 20% would cost you dearly. Charge and go is the name of the game. Slower chargers are used for stay and charge situations.

pwurple

pwurple wrote: »

The problem there is a lack of available chargers. Not forcing the EV drivers into some sort of weird etiquette. That's going to just piss people off and reduce EV uptake. Concentrate your efforts on appealing to local Political representation.

After my trip to Dublin I was honestly shocked at the state of affairs up there. Ratty EV drivers fighting over chargers, and the vast majority of the chargers were iced. It's appalling. I decided never to bring my own up there again, and that kind of messing about and inconvenience is exactly what's going to put people off buying an electric vehicle in the first place. My uncle was asking me about the car, I said I loved it, but as he lives in Dublin, forget about it.

In cork we have Simon Coveney championing the setup. It makes a MASSIVE difference in the attitude of the council to have a local heavy hitter with this on their agenda. I've never come across an iced space in Cork. And all the other local perks (free parking, free tolls) are very good incentives.

Get down to the Td clinics and show them what can be done . http://drive4zero.ie/

If people regularly need 100% at the fast chargers then I don't think the current gen electrics are the car for them.

But I agree with Dexter, charge a lot more for the last 20% we'll see how many people then actually need all the 100%. It will be interesting to see how often people will use the fast chargers when they're not free any more.

It can be quicker getting to the next fast charger and charging again. Even driving slower.

ei9go

The number one is issue is that the electricity at the chargers is free.

Why would you use your own electricity?

Remember in 2008 how many people spent thousands buying diesels to get the 104 Euro road tax.

You can't just keep selling more and more EV's and giving them all free fuel without a huge investment in charge points.

Oafley Jones

ei9go wrote: »

The number one is issue is that the electricity at the chargers is free.

Why would you use your own electricity?

Remember in 2008 how many people spent thousands buying diesels to get the 104 Euro road tax.

You can't just keep selling more and more EV's and giving them all free fuel without a huge investment in charge points.

I keep saying this. Chargers for EVs are a scare resource. You don't give that away. If anything you need to charge above the home rate to ensure a fair distribution of the supply.

pwurple

Deleted User wrote: »

If people regularly need 100% at the fast chargers then I don't think the current gen electrics are the car for them.

But I agree with Dexter, charge a lot more for the last 20% we'll see how many people then actually need all the 100%. It will be interesting to see how often people will use the fast chargers when they're not free any more.

It can be quicker getting to the next fast charger and charging again. Even driving slower.

I don't regularly need 100% at a fast charger, but I went to 95% three times in a row last week because I was doing a round trip Cork - Dublin - Cork. It's once in a blue moon, but it happens.

8 iced charge points in a row didn't help. If I didn't have to drive for miles searching for an available point, maybe 80% would have done by the time I found a fast charger.

Have you guys in Dublin brought up the issue with your local representation?


I really think people are missing the big picture. EV's will turn out to be giant white elephants, unless there is more uptake. It needs to be easier for people. More incentives, Including free charging, until there is decent market penetration. Is there even 1% of new sales yet?

pwurple

pwurple wrote: »

I really think people are missing the big picture. EV's will turn out to be giant white elephants, unless there is more uptake. It needs to be easier for people. More incentives, Including free charging, until there is decent market penetration. Is there even 1% of new sales yet?

Anything free will be abused just like the fast chargers free parking etc but i think free or half toll charges is an excellent idea .

The majority of people are not going to switch to electric until such time the car manufacturers themselves see no future for the internal combustion engine and that won't happen until Governments decide it's in the general interest of the population/planet to change. So this won't happen over night, it ill be a slow process over the next 20+ years or until people see the benefits in electrics.

Irish people are obsessed with Diesel, that it's saving them a fortune, nothing can convince them anything else is better, this will take time to alter people's thinking.

If people got a bill every month for petrol/diesel it might actually make them see all the money going on fuel that it just might convince them to change but as it stands today they don't see the incentive and the majority of people aren't interested in whether a car is ICE or EV as long as it gets them around and it's affordable, people have been brainwashed into diesel and it will take time to change.

simdan

simdan wrote: »

Visited the Blanchardstown centre today. It's the 2nd time I've arrived with a black leaf plugged into the fast charger and sitting in the middle space. The car is fully charged with all 3 blue lights switched off. Unacceptable and rude as far as I'm concerned.

Luckily(or unluckily) there was an NCPs guy there. I asked what is the policy on clamping, he confirmed with his boss that if the car is plugged in that they have no way of telling whether the car is charging or not and it could technically sit there all day as long as a cable is plugged in.

Here is a pic of the violator. I think we should use this thread to name and shame. It shouldn't just be ICE space abusers who are getting in trouble.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/l2htdttgji38uld/20151013_123853.jpg?dl=0

You could leave a note or report him to the ESB.

Of course the know if a leaf is charging it's got a clearly visible blue light flashing on the dash. They just couldn't be arsed doing anything about it.

Leaving the fast charger is a no no but you can plug them out when it's stopped charging ?

If I leave the QC I put a note with my number on it and make sure the lock is not engaged.

simdan

Deleted User wrote:

You could leave a note or report him to the ESB.

I suppose, extremely annoying though.

Deleted User wrote:

Of course the know if a leaf is charging it's got a clearly visible blue light flashing on the dash. They just couldn't be arsed doing anything about it.

I know, I explained the display but he said he couldn't do a thing.

Deleted User wrote:

Leaving the fast charger is a no no but you can plug them out when it's stopped charging ?

Maybe? I thought the one in blanch needs a swipe in and out with your card. So thought it wasn't possible.

Deleted User wrote:

If I leave the QC I put a note with my number on it and make sure the lock is not engaged.

Exactly.. It was charged when I arrived and 15 mins later it was still plugged in. Some people have no thoughts for others. He deserved to be towed!

simdan

simdan wrote: »

Maybe? I thought the one in blanch needs a swipe in and out with your card. So thought it wasn't possible.!

No once the charger shuts off after 59 mins or so or when the car is charged then you can unplug it, the lock if enables should disengage.

simdan wrote: »

Exactly.. It was charged when I arrived and 15 mins later it was still plugged in. Some people have no thoughts for others. He deserved to be towed!

Yeah some people don't care and whether you can unplug them or not they shouldn't take up a space when they don't need it.

Hopefully when the ESB start billing next year it should keep a lot of people away from the fast chargers but I think it will be for new EV owners only, existing owners may have free charging for a while longer.

cros13

simdan wrote: »

I know, I explained the display but he said he couldn't do a thing.

You'd want to be careful about that. The current parking enforcement policy of "if it's plugged in, it's charging" is the correct one for the moment.

My car for example has no external indication of charging. Until people get much more used to the technology the clampers are much more usefully encouraged to use enforcement against vehicles clearly ICEing marked bays.

I wouldn't be afraid to plug out a EV that's clearly not charging.

Unfortunately the ESB have to start billing per minute to stop the inconsiderate people from doing this. Looking like a per minute billing and monthly subscription currently but nothing official yet. This should keep many people away from the chargers.

DrPhilG

Monthly subscription would be harsh, that would mean that someone who uses a public charger once a month is paying the same subscription as someone using them daily!

Per minute billing is fair enough though.

DrPhilG

DrPhilG wrote: »

Monthly subscription would be harsh, that would mean that someone who uses a public charger once a month is paying the same subscription as someone using them daily!

Per minute billing is fair enough though.

I know, I don't want to pay per month for what would now be a rare trip to a fast charger.

Nothing final yet though, I'd rather pay more per Kwh or minute.

They should have different plans.

DrPhilG

The bigger question is still what happens in the North.

Electricity costs in the south are much higher than in the UK aren't they? But if ESB are in charge of the billing island wide, will UK CPs cost differently? Or will charges link to your access card and then be linked to your home bill and adjusted accordingly?

It's not just about the cost of the electricity, the installation and maintenance cost much more and to make a profit or it's not worth their while.

NIMAN

Sorry, off on a tangent here, from an interested potential buyer.

Are you able to unplug someone else's car whilst it's hooked up to a charger? I thought they would lock in place, otherwise what's to stop some scally unplugging any EV he passes?

BoatMad

Personally if you leave an FCP charging while unattended you should expect to be unplugged. , that's my view.

As for EVs charging only more then a token amount would simply kill, EV sales. Only approx 1000 exist in Ireland , a drop in the ocean.


However a fundamental issue remains , as battery power increases and domestic charge points are power limited, there will be an increasing reliance on FCPs as " tide overs " . Since the ESB are seemingly finished ( or finishing it's ten-t funded rollout ) how are private sources going to step in to fill the breach.

FCP charging could get very expensive

cros13

NIMAN wrote: »

Sorry, off on a tangent here, from an interested potential buyer.

Are you able to unplug someone else's car whilst it's hooked up to a charger? I thought they would lock in place, otherwise what's to stop some scally unplugging any EV he passes?

In the case of Type 2 all vehicles lock the connector automatically, For the J1772 Type 1 (which is what the leaf has) there is optional locking, in the case of the leaf this is controlled by a switch in the cabin.

All rapid charger connector types are locked while active.

BoatMad

cros13 wrote: »

In the case of Type 2 all vehicles lock the connector automatically, For the J1772 Type 1 (which is what the leaf has) there is optional locking, in the case of the leaf this is controlled by a switch in the cabin.

All rapid charger connector types are locked while active.

Just to be pedantic , there's latches and locks.

The leaf type 1 connector AC has both a latch ( on the plug worked by a button ) and a lock , activated from a button inside. The latch can be released at any time, the lock requires the user to access the inside of the car. The latch is always in operation , the lock is optional.

FCP, CHADEMO has an activation lock , that can be disabled from the connector. I don't beleive there is any way to prevent the removal of a CHADEMO connector.

NIMAN

cros13 wrote: »

All rapid charger connector types are locked while active.

Excuse my stupid question, but how can someone unplug you then?

stesaurus

BoatMad wrote: »

Personally if you leave an FCP charging while unattended you should expect to be unplugged. , that's my view.

That's bollocks tbh. I rapid charge at Bray/Wicklow quite a bit and pop into the Tesco to pick up a few bits while waiting.

I'd be furious if someone unplugged me.

Leaving for longer than 20-30 mins now is a different story

DrPhilG

BoatMad wrote: »

Personally if you leave an FCP charging while unattended you should expect to be unplugged. , that's my view.

So let's say I roll up at the FCP in Applegreen Lusk Southbound with about 5% left (which would normally be the case as it's a long haul from Topaz Monaghan if I'm heading to Dublin).

I plug in to the FCP and head into the shop for a slash and a burger knowing that I'll be back in 20 minutes, by which time I'll be back up to around 60% and in a position to move on if someone else needs it.

I come back out and find that you have unplugged me at 10% simply because I left the car unattended?

I'd be less than amused I can tell you.

s.welstead wrote: »

That's bollocks tbh. I rapid charge at Bray/Wicklow quite a bit and pop into the Tesco to pick up a few bits while waiting.

I'd be furious if someone unplugged me.

Leaving for longer than 20-30 mins now is a different story

Precisely.

My car has a sticker across the charging ports with the message;

"OK to unplug if over 80% or if charge has stopped, or call me on 078********".

I have only ever unplugged someone twice. At Ikea Belfast because it has ended at 97% and Applegreen Lusk where the charger was at 100% and the driver was fast asleep (3am).

I was sorely tempted last week when I stopped in Letterkenny and somebody had left their Leaf charging. It was at nearly 90% and the driver was nowhere to be seen.