Using "Dr" for a profession you do not have a doctorate in

Peregrinus

Deleted User wrote: »

Are you saying the internet is wrong? :eek:

I think what the internet is telling you is that nobody - not even the University of the Rockies - offers doctorates in acupuncture.

And, in that at least, the internet is probably right.

riffmongous

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

Well if a poet gets an honourary doctorate for writing good poetry, surely thats adding more new kjowledge than the person who reads his poetry and critiques it?

I wouldnt say the poet is really contributing to the knowledge 'of' poetry though, I'd say he is creating 'data', but I have no idea how doctorate's in poetry work, it's a clearer difference in natural sciences I think.

Although as mentioned in an example above of a lady getting an honourary degree, it seems most people awarded honourary degrees in physics at least seem to already have physics doctorates.

MarkAnthony

conorh91 wrote: »

I think the general rule with all titles is that they are used in order of rank as opposed to being blended, so for example a judge of the Superior Courts who has been awarded a PhD might be referred to as Mr. Justice Dr. Hogan/ Barrett/ McMahon etc.

Well, that's a guess. Unfortunately the former Mr Justice Carney didn't earn a PhD, so nobody seems to have been instructed precisely on the etiquette.
(miaow)

Dr. Justice - sounds like a superhero!

Grolschevik

MarkAnthony wrote: »

Dr. Justice - sounds like a superhero!

But what are we going to do about the whole Dr Oetker fiasco?

Carawaystick

Grolschevik wrote: »

But what are we going to do about the whole Dr Oetker fiasco?

Which particular fiasco? that Dr Oetker was a full blown Nazi? or his family's pizza's are crap?

The Randy Riverbeast

Carawaystick wrote: »

Which particular fiasco? that Dr Oetker was a full blown Nazi? or his family's pizza's are crap?

Is he even a doctor? What was his advancement in the area of pizza?

Carawaystick

He's a dead nazi, that's all I care about him.

Grolschevik

The Randy Riverbeast wrote: »

Is he even a doctor? What was his advancement in the area of pizza?

Exactly!

Grolschevik

Carawaystick wrote: »

He's a dead nazi, that's all I care about him.

Actually it was the Dr's grandson that was the Nazi. Dr Oetker died in 1918.

coylemj

While we're talking about honorary titles, here's the big daddy of them all ....



and let's not forget this dude - the guy on the left that is ....

nuac

I don't think Ph.Ds, honorary or real, should describe themselves as doctor

ectoraige

MarkAnthony wrote: »

Proper convention is only to use it within the field.

Well the OP's example the doctorate was in Agricultural Science so that covers all fields.

NeitherJohn

nuac wrote: »

I don't think Ph.Ds, honorary or real, should describe themselves as doctor

Why not?

Firewalkwithme

Eminent celebrity "poo doctor" Gillian McKeith was forced to stop calling herself a doctor in 2007 since she had no qualifications worthy of calling herself a doctor at all.

ohnonotgmail

Cartoon_Head wrote: »

Eminent celebrity "poo doctor" Gillian McKeith was forced to stop calling herself a doctor in 2007 since she had no qualifications worthy of calling herself a doctor at all.

the difference is that she was misrepresenting herself.

conorh91

NeitherJohn wrote: »

Why not?

I can't answer for nuac's opinion, but I share it. My own view would be that there is no ordinary usefulness in using a special title for PhDs.

A licence to practice medicine is such a practical implement that its recognition should be universal and unambiguous. The idea of a herbalist or a psychotherapist using the title doesn't sit right with me.

It's a bit like if an Irish university were to grant a Bachelor of Literature qualification with the letters "BL", which always refers to the Barrister-at-Law degree.

It's just misleading.

It undermines the universal public recognition of a practical skill.

MarkAnthony

Lets not throw too many stones in the glass house on the subject of law degrees. I wonder how how many Irish BCLs disabuse anyone in the UK that it's an undergraduate law degree here! :pac:

Carawaystick

conorh91 wrote: »

I can't answer for nuac's opinion, but I share it. My own view would be that there is no ordinary usefulness in using a special title for PhDs.

A licence to practice medicine is such a practical implement that its recognition should be universal and unambiguous. The idea of a herbalist or a psychotherapist using the title doesn't sit right with me.

It's a bit like if an Irish university were to grant a Bachelor of Literature qualification with the letters "BL", which always refers to the Barrister-at-Law degree.

It's just misleading.

It undermines the universal public recognition of a practical skill.

But doctors ( certain types of surgeon) want to use a more misleading title of Mister. Isn't that more misleading?

What do you think James Reilly should do about being called doctor when he withdrew from the medical council register?

I was at a graduation some years ago, and I thought it was a very touching piece where phD graduates were called forward by their new name "Doctor So and So"

conorh91

Carawaystick wrote: »

But doctors ( certain types of surgeon) want to use a more misleading title of Mister. Isn't that more misleading?

I think such an outdated practice should be discouraged, nevertheless a thoracic surgeon is very unlikely to be mistaken for a herbalist.

"Mr Joe Bloggs, Thoracic Surgeon" is not as misleading as a herbalist describing himself as "Dr. Joe Bloggs, who has spent his life treating illness"

Anyway, I think the Dr prefix should apply to all bona fide medical doctors.

challengemaster

conorh91 wrote: »

A licence to practice medicine is such a practical implement that its recognition should be universal and unambiguous.

There is a name for that, it's a physician.

The problem is that physicians decided to start using the title of Doctor as an operating role, which is only an honorary title in the case of physicians. The title of Doctor means 'to teach' and has been given to academics since the first University came into existence over a millennium ago.

It undermines the universal public recognition of a practical skill.

Indeed, it does undermine PhD's achievements.

Carawaystick

conorh91 wrote: »

I think such an outdated practice should be discouraged, nevertheless a thoracic surgeon is very unlikely to be mistaken for a herbalist.

"Mr Joe Bloggs, Thoracic Surgeon" is not as misleading as a herbalist describing himself as "Dr. Joe Bloggs, who has spent his life treating illness"

Anyway, I think the Dr prefix should apply to all bona fide medical doctors.

If you're going to a quack, you know you're going to a quack.
they're very unlikely to be mistaken for bona fide medical doctors.

conorh91

challengemaster wrote: »

There is a name for that, it's a physician.

The problem is that physicians decided to start using the title of Doctor...

I know because you already said that. With respect, I don't think most people really care about preserving the semantic provenance of the term.

Carawaystick wrote: »

If you're going to a quack, you know you're going to a quack.
they're very unlikely to be mistaken for bona fide medical doctors.

Not necessarily when you're dealing with paramedical fields like psychotherapy. A PhD describing himself as "Dr Joe Bloggs, with 20 years experience in treatment of patients with mental health problems" would cause a lot of people to assume Joe is a medical doctor.

garancafan

Should Joe Bloggs FRS insist upon being addressed as "Jolly good Fellow"?

nuac

NeitherJohn wrote: »

Why not?

imho the term "Doctor" should be confined to those with the appropriate medical qualifications

Carawaystick

nuac wrote: »

imho the term "Doctor" should be confined to those with the appropriate medical qualifications

Even in academia or industry, where it is relevent to a non-medical issue?

Peregrinus

Carawaystick wrote: »

Even in academia or industry, where it is relevent to a non-medical issue?

It's relevant in academia, since it indicates you are highly qualified in the subject in which you lecture or research, having done recognised original research which has contributed to knowledge in the area.

It wouldn't often be relevant in industry, unless you are in some consultancy or advisory role, and are holding yourself out as particularly qualified in some field, in which case having a PhD in the field is certainly relevant.

laserlad2010

I'm fairly confident I speak for the majority of doctors (anecdotes aside) when I say that I'm not really bothered about the honorific "Doctor" for "physicians" or whatever you want to call us.

The harsh reality of life for you PhD people is that when society wants a doctor, they want someone like me. When society references doctors in the media, or in common conversation, or in an emergency on a plane, they are talking about someone like me.

I haven't asked for that, I wouldn't be too bothered if you managed to get the status quo changed, and I certainly don't start spluttering and complaining when a person with a PhD calls me a "fake" doctor.

Society has determined that I'm the doctor, not you. I would be happy to switch to a system where only PhD graduates can be called doctors, but until then keep your a**e in that f**king seat when an air hostess asks for a doctor*

*I once had a standoff with a doctor of theology on an Emirates flight. What he thought he could offer the poor man, on this earth anyway, was beyond me.

ohnonotgmail

laserlad2010 wrote: »

I'm fairly confident I speak for the majority of doctors (anecdotes aside) when I say that I'm not really bothered about the honorific "Doctor" for "physicians" or whatever you want to call us.

The harsh reality of life for you PhD people is that when society wants a doctor, they want someone like me. When society references doctors in the media, or in common conversation, or in an emergency on a plane, they are talking about someone like me.

I haven't asked for that, I wouldn't be too bothered if you managed to get the status quo changed, and I certainly don't start spluttering and complaining when a person with a PhD calls me a "fake" doctor.

Society has determined that I'm the doctor, not you. I would be happy to switch to a system where only PhD graduates can be called doctors, but until then keep your a**e in that f**king seat when an air hostess asks for a doctor*

*I once had a standoff with a doctor of theology on an Emirates flight. What he thought he could offer the poor man, on this earth anyway, was beyond me.

is this for real? somebody with a doctorate in theology stepped forward when cabin crew asked if there was a doctor on board?

laserlad2010

Yes. Essentially we both went up to the hostess and she explained the situation. I turned to him and introduced myself, asked him what his background was and he just matter-of-factly said he was a theologian. I was shocked and he got halfway down the aisle to the guy before I managed to collar him and tell him to sit back down.

ohnonotgmail

laserlad2010 wrote: »

Yes. Essentially we both went up to the hostess and she explained the situation. I turned to him and introduced myself, asked him what his background was and he just matter-of-factly said he was a theologian. I was shocked and he got halfway down the aisle to the guy before I managed to collar him and tell him to sit back down.

the mind boggles. what did he think he was going to achieve?