Is this illegal?

Ally Dick

Last night there was a speed trap at Blanchardstown where two of our wonderful gardai were standing on the flyover over the M3 pointing their hairdryers north.. As usual, they make sure to set is up where there are no speed limit signs. Is it legal for them to mount such a trap? Just asking. First time I have seen them do it from the bridge. Normally it's a hair dryer or van on the M3 itself under one of the bridges

galljga1

I cannot see why not.

ectoraige

No, why would it be illegal?

Zillah

Which part do you think is illegal?

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Of course it's legal. And there are speed limit signs when you enter the speed zone. They are often on the flyovers.

galljga1

ectoraige wrote: »

No.

I would see it as legal. Why do you think it is not? Is it the elevation of the site being used?

wylie

ectoraige wrote: »

No.

Yes

SpaceTime

I don't see why it wouldn't be legal.

If you're breaking the speed limit, the Gardai are entitled to use any reasonable measures to detect that. They don't have to make you aware of where they are.

It's not called a speed "trap" for nothing!

ThisRegard

Ally Dick wrote: »

Last night there was a speed trap at Blanchardstown where two of our wonderful gardai were standing on the flyover over the M3 pointing their hairdryers north.. As usual, they make sure to set is up where there are no speed limit signs. Is it legal for them to mount such a trap? Just asking. First time I have seen them do it from the bridge. Normally it's a hair dryer or van on the M3 itself under one of the bridges

It's not the M3 at Blanchardstown, and if it was a flyover on the N3 at Blanchardstown there are signs.

Old Perry

No signs doesnt mean no speed limits. People obeying the law and driving sensibly have no need to worry about such 'traps'.

kneemos

Your supposed to be aware of the speed limit.

kylith

Are you actually trying to say that if there isn't a sign right there then you can't be speeding? Have you heard of a phenomenon called 'remembering what the speed limit is'?

seenitall

galljga1 wrote: »

I would see it as legal. Why do you think it is not? Is it the elevation of the site being used?

Q: Is this illegal?
A: No.

Ally Dick

Zillah wrote: »

Which part do you think is illegal?

Is it illegal to stand over the road on the flyover? Could they do so in the dark where you couldn't see them? It was bright last night mind

Duke O Smiley

So what did they catch you at OP?

Ally Dick

kylith wrote: »

Are you actually trying to say that if there isn't a sign right there then you can't be speeding? Have you heard of a phenomenon called 'remembering what the speed limit is'?

At one stage, the speed limit went from 120 to 60 for roadworks. Then back up to 80. Then down to 50, then up to 100 on the M50. Ridiculous, isn't it?

awec

Ally Dick wrote: »

Is it illegal to stand over the road on the flyover? Could they do so in the dark where you couldn't see them? It was bright last night mind

Why do you need to see them?

If they are on the bridge you aren't going to be running them over.

donegaLroad

Ally Dick wrote: »

At one stage, the speed limit went from 120 to 60 for roadworks. Then back up to 80. Then down to 50, then up to 100 on the M50. Ridiculous, isn't it?

I remember the drop to 50 somewhere along that stretch..

this is interesting

Ally Dick

awec wrote: »

Why do you need to see them?

They're supposed to be visible. Otherwise they're entrapping. Next thing you know a scarecrow in a field has a hairdryer hidden it it

lawred2

ThisRegard wrote: »

It's not the M3 at Blanchardstown, and if it was a flyover on the N3 at Blanchardstown there are signs.

you probably didn't see the earlier signs

horse7

So if your speeding ,do they drive after you or send out letter?

awec

Ally Dick wrote: »

They're supposed to be visible. Otherwise they're entrapping. Next thing you know a scarecrow in a field has a hairdryer hidden it it

They were visible enough for you to spot them and create this thread.

wylie

Ally Dick wrote: »

They're supposed to be visible. Otherwise they're entrapping. Next thing you know a scarecrow in a field has a hairdryer hidden it it

She did see them, remember she saw them on the bridge.

kylith

Ally Dick wrote: »

At one stage, the speed limit went from 120 to 60 for roadworks. Then back up to 80. Then down to 50, then up to 100 on the M50. Ridiculous, isn't it?

Ridiculous it may be, but as long as each limit is posted you should be following it.

awec

horse7 wrote: »

So if your speeding ,do they drive after you or send out letter?

The hairdryer needs to stop you I think.

I think there's usually a guard waiting on a bike / in a car to go after and stop anyone that is seen to be speeding.

Ally Dick

Duke O Smiley wrote: »

So what did they catch you at OP?

I jammed on. Think I was doing 74 before I copped them. Depends on if I was in the 80 or 50 zone

Roger_007

The more important question is : 'is this a known accident-prone stretch of road'. The Gardai always maintain that their road safety resources are concentrated on known dangerous roads and 'black spots'. The motorways are much safer than other roads.
I live on a small country road where the speed limit is 80kph. I have been here 15 years and have never seen or heard of the Gardai operating a speed check on my road, despite the fact that it seems to be a favoured road for 'boy racers'.
The scenario described by the OP is simply a case of the Gardai bumping up their statistics. It has very little to do with road safety.

rubadub

kylith wrote: »

Are you actually trying to say that if there isn't a sign right there then you can't be speeding?

There was a thread last week where some lad was complaining that there was no "no littering" sign around bottle banks. He was caught littering on CCTV and was complaining about the lack of signs, wondering if he could get off.

awec

Roger_007 wrote: »

The more important question is : 'is this a known accident-prone stretch of road'. The Gardai always maintain that their road safety resources are concentrated on known dangerous roads and 'black spots'. The motorways are much safer than other roads.
I live on a small country road where the speed limit is 80kph. I have been here 15 years and have never seen or heard of the Gardai operating a speed check on my road, despite the fact that it seems to be a favoured road for 'boy racers'.
The scenario described by the OP is simply a case of the Gardai bumping up their statistics. It has very little to do with road safety.

The reduced speed limit is usually because of narrow lanes, frequent exits (and therefore frequent lane changes) combined with high traffic volumes.

Or else roadworks.

The speed limit isn't set lower just for the craic.

awec

Ally Dick wrote: »

I jammed on. Think I was doing 74 before I copped them. Depends on if I was in the 80 or 50 zone

If they didn't stop you you're grand I think. IMO they don't stop everyone anyway, especially if you are just keeping up with traffic. They are more interested in people who are taking the absolute piss and flying.

seamus

Ally Dick wrote: »

They're supposed to be visible. Otherwise they're entrapping.

Nonsense.
There's no law which requires a Garda carrying out a manual speed check to be visible.

kylith

Ally Dick wrote: »

They're supposed to be visible. Otherwise they're entrapping. Next thing you know a scarecrow in a field has a hairdryer hidden it it

I'm not sure you're right. Entrapment requires that a law enforcement agent induces you to commit a crime which you would have been unlikely to otherwise, which did not happen in this case. Regardless of the fact that the Gardaí were visible, as evidenced by this thread, you were caught breaking the law of your own volition. No entrapment there.

kylith

rubadub wrote: »

There was a thread last week where some lad was complaining that there was no "no littering" sign around bottle banks. He was caught littering on CCTV and was complaining about the lack of signs, wondering if he could get off.

Jesus! Do we need to have a list of crimes on every lamppost or something? Have it announced on the radio every hour "Murder is still illegal. Absence of signs prohibiting murder do not mean that murder is legal in that area"?

SeanW

awec wrote: »

The reduced speed limit is usually because of narrow lanes, frequent exits (and therefore frequent lane changes) combined with high traffic volumes.

Or else roadworks.

The speed limit isn't set lower just for the craic.

Some of them look like they were pulled out of a civil servants backside.

CosmicSmash

The one at the petrol station on the Navan road on the carriageway before the M50 roundabout is a pure money maker, another one as you travel down into Whitehall. I suppose someone has to pay for all the bank holiday overtime for the gs.

ThisRegard

lawred2 wrote: »

you probably didn't see the earlier signs

? I said there are signs. You quoting the wrong person?

ThisRegard

CosmicSmash wrote: »

The one at the petrol station on the Navan road on the carriageway before the M50 roundabout is a pure money maker, another one as you travel down into Whitehall. I suppose someone has to pay for all the bank holiday overtime for the gs.

You mean expecting motorists to slow for an entrance\exit to a petrol station, a slip road where other cars merge onto and off the N3, where there's a bus stop and where there's a pedestrian crossing is just ridiculous?

ectoraige

galljga1 wrote: »

I would see it as legal. Why do you think it is not? Is it the elevation of the site being used?

wylie wrote: »

Yes

Sigh... I was answering "No" to the "Is this illegal?" thread title, not the "Is it legal?" in the OP itself.

It should be illegal to start threads that way.

Penn

Ally Dick wrote: »

As usual, they make sure to set is up where there are no speed limit signs.

Ally Dick wrote: »

At one stage, the speed limit went from 120 to 60 for roadworks. Then back up to 80. Then down to 50, then up to 100 on the M50. Ridiculous, isn't it?

Sounds like there were quite a few speed limit signs and you did notice them.

Stheno

CosmicSmash wrote: »

The one at the petrol station on the Navan road on the carriageway before the M50 roundabout is a pure money maker, another one as you travel down into Whitehall. I suppose someone has to pay for all the bank holiday overtime for the gs.

I've never seen one at whitehall

Ally Dick

Bad Horse wrote: »

Sounds like there were quite a few speed limit signs and you did notice them.

I noticed them when I was heading home later on!

Ally Dick

Stheno wrote: »

I've never seen one at whitehall

Ah come on now Ted. At Whitehall church. Or under the flyover where the speed limit is a ridiculous 50kph

CosmicSmash

Stheno wrote: »

I've never seen one at whitehall

It's when you're driving down under the bridge on your left. Just after you pass the port tunnel will be on your right. 60 zone, dropping to 50 at the bridge.

kylith

Ally Dick wrote: »

I noticed them when I was heading home later on!

So they were there and you weren't paying sufficient attention to notice them the first time round?

beauf

Roger_007 wrote: »

The more important question is : 'is this a known accident-prone stretch of road'. The Gardai always maintain that their road safety resources are concentrated on known dangerous roads and 'black spots'. The motorways are much safer than other roads.
I live on a small country road where the speed limit is 80kph. I have been here 15 years and have never seen or heard of the Gardai operating a speed check on my road, despite the fact that it seems to be a favoured road for 'boy racers'.
The scenario described by the OP is simply a case of the Gardai bumping up their statistics. It has very little to do with road safety.

awec wrote: »

The reduced speed limit is usually because of narrow lanes, frequent exits (and therefore frequent lane changes) combined with high traffic volumes.

Or else roadworks.

The speed limit isn't set lower just for the craic.

I think the point was is this a know accident spot that the Garda where checking speeds.

I have no idea if there are many accidents there. But there's a lot of bad driving here. People crossing to the exit late, and lots of people speeding and tailgating. In my experience a lot of cars are well over the limit at this point.

As such I'm conflicted as I don't think there are many accidents here. But so many drive like morons here, I'd be happy if a few of them got tagged for speeding.

CosmicSmash

ThisRegard wrote: »

You mean expecting motorists to slow for an entrance\exit to a petrol station, a slip road where other cars merge onto and off the N3, where there's a bus stop and where there's a pedestrian crossing is just ridiculous?

There are petrol stations all over Ireland, these are not all on 60kph zone, you'll be asking for slips roads for them next. The pedestrian crossing is controlled by lights, it should have been an overhead walkway but that wasn't my decision. Believe it or not it's possible to merge at speeds over 60kph, people are doing it on roads across the country and have been for years.

beauf

I find using a GPS, or Phone as a GPS is very handy for keeping an eye on speed limits (even if not using it for directions) especially where its not obvious or you don't know the area. Becoming essential for driving these days.

ThisRegard

CosmicSmash wrote: »

There are petrol stations all over Ireland, these are not all on 60kph zone, you'll be asking for slips roads for them next. The pedestrian crossing is controlled by lights, it should have been an overhead walkway but that wasn't my decision. Believe it or bot it's possible to merge at speeds over 60kph, people are doing it on roads across the country and have been for years.

It's not just because of a petrol station, it's a combination of all of the conditions that I highlighted. The reduced limit in that area has a negligible affect on your journey.

beauf

CosmicSmash wrote: »

There are petrol stations all over Ireland, these are not all on 60kph zone, you'll be asking for slips roads for them next. The pedestrian crossing is controlled by lights, it should have been an overhead walkway but that wasn't my decision. Believe it or bot it's possible to merge at speeds over 60kph, people are doing it on roads across the country and have been for years.

That's an unusual stretch where (for a variety of reasons) you do see people crossing a road. Its bit odd as its basically a very wide dual carriageway so you're not really expecting it, unless you've seen it before.

Stheno

CosmicSmash wrote: »

It's when you're driving down under the bridge on your left. Just after you pass the port tunnel will be on your right. 60 zone, dropping to 50 at the bridge.

Am only there in rush hour so it's possible it's not there?

The King of Moo

I think there is an issue with Guards not focussing on accident black spots, but I don't understand why people think they should be visible when they're recording speeds.

Any time I pass a speed van, every driver breaks sharply regardless of their speed, and there's a long queue of cars going past at 40kmph (if it's a 50 zone), with everyone then racing to 60/70kmph once they're clear.

Surely if everyone kept to the speed limits as they're supposed to it wouldn't be an issue. And if someone gets caught speeding by a guard they couldn't see, well, they were breaking the law.
Tough.