Previous tenant paid bills!

FishOnABike

potter18 wrote: »

Spoke to the landlord again and he said that previous tenant is not happy for my landlord to give back the deposit until I have paid the gas bill, and therefore he is saying he is keeping it until this is all sorted.

I am happy to sort it our between myself and the old tenant as I did obviously use the gas over the year but the landlord definitely has no legal right to keep my deposit or to remain involved.

If the landlord continues to refuse to return your deposit for no other reason other than the gas (which is between you and the former tenant) inform the landlord you he is putting you in a position where you will have no option but to raise a dispute through the PRTB for withholding the deposit and you will be looking for the return of the deposit in full and significant damages for his unlawful action.

Gatling

FishOnABike wrote: »

If the landlord continues to refuse to return your deposit for no other reason other than the gas (which is between you and the former tenant) inform the landlord you he is putting you in a position where you will have no option but to raise a dispute through the PRTB for withholding the deposit and you will be looking for the return of the deposit in full and significant damages for his unlawful action.

5 + years down the line depending on the situation

Dardania

FishOnABike wrote: »

If the landlord continues to refuse to return your deposit for no other reason other than the gas (which is between you and the former tenant) inform the landlord you he is putting you in a position where you will have no option but to raise a dispute through the PRTB for withholding the deposit and you will be looking for the return of the deposit in full and significant damages for his unlawful action.

CHances are the lease you signed with landlord made it clear you were responsible for all utility bills - remind him of same

Captain Flaps

So I think we're all in agreement that you owe the money to the previous tenant. If the landlord's only concern is ensuring the tenant gets paid, he should be happy to pass on the previous tenant's contact info so you can request copies of all bills etc etc. If the landlord wants to hold on to your deposit until such a time as all parties are satisfied that the bills have been cleared, he may be entitled to do that, but under no circumstances should you be allowing ANY cash to be moved around without seeing bills.

FishOnABike

Gatling wrote: »

5 + years down the line depending on the situation

I know the processing time for complaints by the PRTB is beyond a joke but the suggestion might make the landlord reconsider whether the trouble is worth his while getting involved in a dispute between two third parties.

tina1040

potter18 wrote: »

Can't do a lot at the moment as I have no name or contact details of the previous tenant and also no proof of the amount that was paid ie copies of previous bills so there is just a number that I have been given by the landlord which for all I know could be much more than it should be.

It's nothing to do with the landlord. He has no liability to the gas company once the account is signed over to a tenant.

Neither should you be dealing with the previous tenant. You should tell the gas co that you have been a tenant at that address, give the meter reading at the start and end of the tenancy and the gas co should rectify the situation with the previous tenant.

For a speedier solution, it would help if the landlord informed the previous tenant of the error and ask him to explain to the gas co and request a refund.

FishOnABike

potter18 wrote: »

Can't do a lot at the moment as I have no name or contact details of the previous tenant and also no proof of the amount that was paid ie copies of previous bills so there is just a number that I have been given by the landlord which for all I know could be much more than it should be.

Were gas meter readings taken at the start and end of your tenancy and do you have these noted somewhere? If not it is going to be all but impossible to establish what your actual usage has been unless the bills (which you have yet to see) contained actual meter readings.

As Michael D said they could be estimated. They could be on a flat rate or a high standing charge / low cost per unit or other tariff which would not have been appropriate for your usage pattern.

The landlord should not be getting involved other than facilitating you and the previous tenant to contact each other. You should insist on only dealing with the previous tenant and require proof from the previous tenant that they have been billed for and paid for your gas usage.

Make any payment(s) by credit transfer from your bank account to the previous tenant's bank account to ensure they are traceable and only for what you would have paid - not necessarily what the previous tenant paid if they were on an inappropriate tariff.

JohnBee

Captain Flaps wrote: »

If the landlord's only concern is ensuring the tenant gets paid, he should be happy to pass on the previous tenant's contact info so you can request copies of all bills etc etc.

OP did state that other tenant did not want his details shared.

There are 2 possiblities:
1. OP is extremely naive and upon moving into a new place, subconsciously assumed the gas fairies provided the service.
2. OP was slightly chancing their arm and sticking their head in the sand and hoping a bill would never be paid.

Bottom line is, your an adult, you used it, you pay it. Ask landlord for copy of bill. Pay your dues, either to landlord (with express written permission from previous tenant to pay this way), or cheque to previous tenant (perhaps passed on by landlord).

Everyone is complicating this too much with PRTB etc.

K.Flyer

I cannot see the legal reason for the L.L. retaining your deposit as technically there are no arrears on the utility bills.
However, you do owe for your usage.
I would be suggesting to him that you need to sort this out with the previous tenant and that you will gladly refund the tenant directly any monies owed, subject to verification of the bills from the energy supplier.
He may withhold your deposit until the matter is resolved, which is understandable, but one way or the other you owe the bill and he owes you your deposit.

rawn

I wouldn't pay anything without seeing the annual bill showing that it has been paid by the previous tenant. Shouldn't be a problem to get one from the gas company. If everything is above board, OP pays. Simples.

FishOnABike

JohnBee wrote: »

OP did state that other tenant did not want his details shared.

I've reread the thread and I don't see the OP saying anywhere that the previous tenant did not want his details shared.

If the previous tenant (I'm starting to doubt the LL's story) wants to be repaid for the OP's gas usage he will have to make his details known to the OP to prove he was billed for and paid for the gas the OP used. He will also have to provide his details so the OP can arrange payment.

JohnBee wrote: »

Everyone is complicating this too much with PRTB etc.

The landlord is creating a second problem by unlawfully withholding the OP's deposit. The OP is entitled to take whatever lawful action is needed to discourage the landlord or recover their deposit.

dissed doc

Get the meter reading from the beginning of your tenancy and the end. It will be simple to get Board Gais or whoever to provide the usage cost.

Get copies of all the bills to your address for the period of your tenancy.

Tell the landlord that you have transferred all bills that were in your name to his. Bills not in your name, you are not able to transfer.

If the deposit is kept, lodge a PTRB dispute,

??

The biggest issue I see here is the amount being asked for. If the OP is correct in what he is saying and hardy ever uses the gas then the bill for the year should be fairly small.

I'm in a 3 bdrm house, 3 of us living there and we are very light users our cost for the year is around 200 euro. Our bill for the last 2 months (well a bit more actually) was 18 euro.

El_Duderino 09

potter18 wrote:

Yes i'm starting to think perhaps the amount i have been told could be what this previous guy has paid over the two years rather than just the year I was there?

Has anyone shown you a bill? Only a crazy person would consider paying a bill which they haven't even seen.

For that matter how was the bill worked out? If it was on DD with a fixed amount for the old tenant's usage, the account could be in credit. The owner of the account needs to get a meter reading and a breakdown of the bill and you need to see it before you consider paying anyone anything.

foggy_lad

OP you should contact the PRTB tomorrow to initiate a complaint based on what the LL has told you about keeping your deposit, Then you should contact the LL and tell him to provide a full breakdown of the previous years bills including copies of the bills themselves and also details of the previous tenant so that you can seek to reimburse them for their payment of your bill.


Personally I think that the bill is in the Landlords name and is most likely only a tiny fraction of what he is trying to make you pay. he has decided to keep your deposit any way he can!

jlm29

OP, I don't see where it says the previous tenant doesn't want his details shared, but you could write a letter and ask the landlord to pass it in to that person, requesting that they contact you. Make it clear that you have no issue paying what you owe, but that you'd like to see a copy of the bills.
Can't imagine anyone would think it unreasonable, and you'll be able to tell the prtb you've done this, if you do need to bring the matter to them!

ted1

Dardania wrote: »

You could take the view that the gas bill isn't in your name, so you aren't involved

If you pay the landlord, what will he do with the money?

The lease will stipulate that the tenant is responsible for all utility bills while in tenancy .

Starokan

My take on it would be that the landlord has zero right to hold back your deposit. If you feel no moral obligation to pay the bill then if you cannot get the deposit pursue it through the PRTB

If you feel obliged to pay then insist on the gas company sending out all bills to your landlord and insist on seeing them, they could be estimates etc , it seems way to high for a year. Establish exactly what is owed and go from there.

Alex Meier

None of the landlords business who pays the bills.

tina1040

Does the previous tenant know they haven't stopped the payments? How did the landlord discover this was happening?

I think you should be working this out through the gas supplier and not by reimbursing the previous tenant.

kidneyfan

Go to the PRTB tomorrow. The relationship between tenant and landlord is unequal and the PRTB exists to provide a level playing field.

The sort of landlord who rents to students will steal a deposit.
If the previous tenant won't share his details for 1000 euro than he clearly doesn't need it or more likely doesn't exist.

dissed doc

kidneyfan wrote: »

Go to the PRTB tomorrow. The relationship between tenant and landlord is unequal and the PRTB exists to provide a level playing field.

The sort of landlord who rents to students will steal a deposit.
If the previous tenant won't share his details for 1000 euro than he clearly doesn't need it or more likely doesn't exist.

Yeah something is fishy. No reasonable person would pay 1000 euros for a year, unknowingly, and not come after the new tenant (the OP) to get the cash back! There is some sort of scam going on for sure, IMO!

The tenant is indeed liable for the utilities they used. That means the bills, with the meter readings must be available to pay those utilities. No bills, is just the landlord asking for money for apparently nothing. Like a soft mugging - "give me 1000 euros".

Miamiheat

FishOnABike wrote: »

I know the processing time for complaints by the PRTB is beyond a joke but the suggestion might make the landlord reconsider whether the trouble is worth his while getting involved in a dispute between two third parties.

had a dispute via PRTB this year it was handled within 3 months

GreatDefector

JohnBee wrote: »

OP did state that other tenant did not want his details shared.

There are 2 possiblities:
1. OP is extremely naive and upon moving into a new place, subconsciously assumed the gas fairies provided the service.
2. OP was slightly chancing their arm and sticking their head in the sand and hoping a bill would never be paid.

Bottom line is, your an adult, you used it, you pay it. Ask landlord for copy of bill. Pay your dues, either to landlord (with express written permission from previous tenant to pay this way), or cheque to previous tenant (perhaps passed on by landlord).

Everyone is complicating this too much with PRTB etc.

I'd agree with this. A cheque explicitly payable to the old tenant (passed on by LL)

If it's not cashed by the tenant what more can you do. LL can't hold anything on you then

FishOnABike

GreatDefector wrote: »

I'd agree with this. A cheque explicitly payable to the old tenant (passed on by LL)

If it's not cashed by the tenant what more can you do. LL can't hold anything on you then

I'd be very cautious about paying anything before I had copies of the bills, proof that the previous tenant had paid the bills and the usage billed (and he paid for) matches your tenancy period and the actual gas you used.

Only once the previous tenant has clearly satisfied you of all the above should you pay anything. Then you should pay what it would have cost you - which might be less if the previous tenant had over estimated bills or was on a tariff inappropriate for your usage.

greenhouse

happened to me years ago, moved out from sharing house, Electricity was on my name, I got the new place and got electricity bill on my name switched account to new place. after two years moved again and Electricity crowd sent me bill of 250 Euro from previous address which I shared with other guys. it turned out, my mates never paid the last bill and left and as bill was still on my name. I argued that I cancelled the previous account when I moved to new place. switching guy never cancelled my old account, instead created a new account for new place, how would I knew what happened, anyway, it raised the flag on their system. I was held legally liable(allegedly) to pay the bill, even though, all those time, I have electricity bill was on my name at different place and I always paid the electricity bills on time. electricity company never listened, there argument was anyone can have more than two accounts, as this account is on your name, you are responsible, not people who lived there or used electricity! in the end I was able to contact one old mate, who paid his share only, plainly refused to pay any more and rest was left on me to pay up or face debt collectors!
Anyway,op says the bill is not his name! How anybody can force him to pay?
but morally speaking, op would knew(allegedly) that gas was in the house, hot water comes when boiler starts and most of us know when the boiler is running in the house! probably he would have been paying for it too.

Having said that, utility company got their money. the guy who is paying does not know anything yet. I did not understand, whats landlord problem here? Whom he has to pay?

the_syco

potter18 wrote: »

had to cancel all the bills, pay them off and change the name back to the landlord in order to get my deposit back, however when I rang the gas network they said that there was no gas under my name, or my landlords name and wouldn't give me any more information.

I'm thinking the gas was under our landlords name, and he only copped now that he has been paying for your gas. Especially as the gas company didn't play ball with you, but played ball with the landlord.

potter18 wrote: »

My landlord told me that the amount paid over the last 12 months is 1100euro which would mean about 90 a month.

I'd demand to the see the bill.

potter18 wrote: »

Spoke to the landlord again and he said that previous tenant is not happy for my landlord to give back the deposit until I have paid the gas bill, and therefore he is saying he is keeping it until this is all sorted.

And the landlord will be handing the cash over to the ex-tenant? Sounds like the landlord is trying to pull a fast one here!

JohnBee wrote: »

OP did state that other tenant did not want his details shared.

Where was this stated?

potter18 wrote: »

Hardly ever used the gas for the year as it only heated the kitchen

Gas that is used for only radiator is very suspicious, imo.

OP; why do say that the radiator in the kitchen is gas powered, and also was there a gas meter in the place you were renting?

JohnBee

FishOnABike wrote: »

I'd be very cautious about paying anything before I had copies of the bills, proof that the previous tenant had paid the bills and the usage billed (and he paid for) matches your tenancy period and the actual gas you used.

Only once the previous tenant has clearly satisfied you of all the above should you pay anything. Then you should pay what it would have cost you - which might be less if the previous tenant had over estimated bills or was on a tariff inappropriate for your usage.

Hence GreatDefector stated as I did that the OP should get a copy of the bill. It is not rocket science here. Gas was used. It is 2015, its not too hard to find out how much was used and how much is owed.

foggy_lad

OP what type of flat/apartment were you renting? does the landlord live next door? was it a flat attached to or next to the landlords house?

HJL

foggy_lad wrote: »

Personally I think that the bill is in the Landlords name and is most likely only a tiny fraction of what he is trying to make you pay. he has decided to keep your deposit any way he can!

Sounds like that to me as well. Or in his wife or kid's name or something. OP im assuming you never met the previous tenant? I'd say the landlord had the bill changed to his (or wife) name after the last person moved out but it never got transferred over when you moved in. But if your lease states that you are responsible for all utility bills then would you not still be held accountable? Or is it the landlord's problem as he never contacted the gas company?