Dairy Chit Chat- Please read Mod note in post #1

trixi2011

mahoney_j wrote: »

Why beef nuts jack??,much better with a defined dairy mix which will also contain cal mag to prevent tetany

Feedimg beef nuts here most of the year as we are in a high input area mills only make 16 or 18 dairy grazing rations. Costs 165 t with cal mag and minerals high energy and p of 13 has worked well for us so far can add extra mag when feeding at low levels

Greengrass1

frazzledhome wrote: »

Only mins here are in dairy nuts or weanling nuts.

No extra minerals of any type fed. No orecalver or bolus used. No ill effects of any description.

Edit: 92% in calf in 12 weeks with zero intervention

At a walk 3 wks ago
Moorepark had results of mineral tests they had done on grass right through the yr.
Every single farm that was tested wad lacking in all major and minor mins

jaymla627

Deepsouthwest wrote: »

Do any of ye bolus incalf heifers before calving? Have been using the all-sure bolus here for yrs, and v happy with it, but I normally only give to the milkers around Christmas, I sprinkle a bit of bag minerals on the silage for the incalf heifers. Should they get a bolus as well? Don't seem to have an issue with first calvers going back in calf here

All incalf heifers done with blouses here when their getting the fluke drench before calving and same with cows, done at dry off, biggest improvement I see since we started using bolouses is the vigour of new born calves.....
Out of 80 calves last year we had to tube two with the rest all taking 3-5 litres of biestings within a hour of birth from the bottle before that we would of been going with the stomach tube for every second calf, makes life fair easy in the spring when your not bollicking with tubes and weak/slow calves

frazzledhome

Henwin wrote: »

That must be a Jersey cross herd?

Nothing's to do with it really. Bloods, nasal swabs and dung samples taken every 6 mths and we act accordingly.

Don't blanket dose except for calves through summer.

jack o shea

was wondering could it be done for handiness more than anything mahoney,just fill up the bin and let all the different groups get the same meal.trixi did you get cal mag added to beef nuts?

alps

Brown Podzol wrote: »

Don't know, it's a friend getting it done, a load every second day between 120 cows. Cows out by day and getting a few kg in the parlour. The conditioner is off the mower and the load can't be packed full to prevent damage to the grass. The contractor has a new wagon ordered which will have conveyor belts on the back to feed out grass on either side.
To hazard a guess , I'd say a load would feed 120 cows for one day.

Bang on I'd say BP.....had been at it here in 2014, reckoning on 1.8t dm in the load at 150€. Rented aftergrass at 40€/acre and gave 2 bags can...drought in September and very little growth till October, Grass costeo €170/load..working out at €177/t dm...this was miles too expensive an experiment.
We were grazing by day and feeding this by night, so the load was lasting 2 days, but there was a nice bit of work breaking out the load and grab it around the head feeds. If left in any sort of a pile it would heat like hell and if any of it remained until day 3 it would have to be thrown out.
As you can imagine....not at it this year. Might be worthwhile if you have surplus grass on an out farm, or if a number of neighbouring farmers are at it to reduce the contractor travelling time.

Dawggone

Why don't ye use straights??

50/50 mix of full fat OSR and Soya = 40% protein @ €266/ton.

Rolled maize should be sub €200/ton...


Why complicate things? Supporting your local merchants?

freedominacup

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

freedominacup wrote: »

It all depends on the quality of the pr and whether there's enough energy in the diet to utilise it. Would have no hesitation about feeding 18% here if it was what was needed. Had a 22% blend going in last winter but s lot of the forage was wholecrop. Loads of starch around to mop up the pr.

There's a dairy nutrition programme available for free on nap website, under 'nutrient requirements of dairy cows', its not the most sophisticated nutrition model, but its easy to use and used with excel you can optimise diets straight forward enough

Back of an envelope does the job here.

freedominacup

Dawggone wrote: »

Why don't ye use straights??

50/50 mix of full fat OSR and Soya = 40% protein @ 266/ton.

Rolled maize should be sub 200/ton...


Why complicate things? Supporting your local merchants?

Storage snd flexibility dawg. Used to collect a good bit in Waterford when halls and arkady were bringing feed in there. If you're getting straights delivered you need to be taking full loads to get the real benefit. If your only using a half dozen loads per year you can end up with a lot of product you're trying to work into a situation rather than what's most suitable for grazing conditions, grass growth stage etc. Probably on our sixth different blend of the year now and next load will be changed again. Merchant charging around 20 euro above his ex yard price to blend and blow so I think the flexibility is worth the price. Might go back to buying straights as numbers grow but not for the moment.

Timmaay

freedominacup wrote: »

Storage snd flexibility dawg. Used to collect a good bit in Waterford when halls and arkady were bringing feed in there. If you're getting straights delivered you need to be taking full loads to get the real benefit. If your only using a half dozen loads per year you can end up with a lot of product you're trying to work into a situation rather than what's most suitable for grazing conditions, grass growth stage etc. Probably on our sixth different blend of the year now and next load will be changed again. Merchant charging around 20 euro above his ex yard price to blend and blow so I think the flexibility is worth the price. Might go back to buying straights as numbers grow but not for the moment.

This sums up why the average 100cow family farmer in Ireland should stay the hell away from any sort of high input/output system, we just do not have the economy of scale, and end up producing expensive milk, and as kowtow keeps reminding us, at the end of the day all we do in Ireland is pump milk powder out to the world market at whatever (low) price we can get.

whelan2

cows didnt want to come in this morning or go out of yard, full as ticks. Hope to get another week outside, cheap milk as silage pit not opened yet

frazzledhome

Timmaay wrote: »

This sums up why the average 100cow family farmer in Ireland should stay the hell away from any sort of high input/output system, we just do not have the economy of scale, and end up producing expensive milk, and as kowtow keeps reminding us, at the end of the day all we do in Ireland is pump milk powder out to the world market at whatever (low) price we can get.

And Tim if it applies to 100 cows it also applies to 300 cows

frazzledhome

Dawggone wrote: »

Why don't ye use straights??

50/50 mix of full fat OSR and Soya = 40% protein @ €266/ton.

Rolled maize should be sub €200/ton...


Why complicate things? Supporting your local merchants?

Simply put they're a pain in the hole. Shed taken up with lorry loads of straights. Feeder needed to feed to cows and absolute shyte to feed in parlour.

Got blend blown in here the winter before last, exact same ingredients as nut we were using. Cows dropped and didn't recover till we went back to nuts after we used 2 bins

mf240

frazzledhome wrote: »

Simply put they're a pain in the hole. Shed taken up with lorry loads of straights. Feeder needed to feed to cows and absolute shyte to feed in parlour.

Got blend blown in here the winter before last, exact same ingredients as nut we were using. Cows dropped and didn't recover till we went back to nuts after we used 2 bins

Did you open up the feeders to allow for the lower density of the blend.

frazzledhome

mf240 wrote: »

Did you open up the feeders to allow for the lower density of the blend.

Good question, yes we did.

mahoney_j

Timmaay wrote: »

This sums up why the average 100cow family farmer in Ireland should stay the hell away from any sort of high input/output system, we just do not have the economy of scale, and end up producing expensive milk, and as kowtow keeps reminding us, at the end of the day all we do in Ireland is pump milk powder out to the world market at whatever (low) price we can get.

As long as the extra litres produced are done efficiently and are making profit where's the issue ??

Milked out

frazzledhome wrote: »

Simply put they're a pain in the hole. Shed taken up with lorry loads of straights. Feeder needed to feed to cows and absolute shyte to feed in parlour.

Got blend blown in here the winter before last, exact same ingredients as nut we were using. Cows dropped and didn't recover till we went back to nuts after we used 2 bins

Have ye the yoke on top of the bin that's supposed to help prevent blends from separateing as it's blown in? Got a new bin from for parlour and they put that on it. In old bin which just has a shoot to fill loader it doesn't and you would notice the odd blend looking different as u go thru the load.
Gone from having no bin 3 years ago to having three now. Was just going to use old bin for parlour but would have had to shorten the legs and I said it would be better to have clean storage rather than feckin around in a shed if stuff was ever needed outside of dairy nut

Dawggone

Timmaay wrote: »

This sums up why the average 100cow family farmer in Ireland should stay the hell away from any sort of high input/output system, we just do not have the economy of scale, and end up producing expensive milk, and as kowtow keeps reminding us, at the end of the day all we do in Ireland is pump milk powder out to the world market at whatever (low) price we can get.

It's nothing to do with hi/lo input Tim.
Every blend/nut that leaves the merchants yard puts ~€100 in his pocket.

Average 100cow herd feeding, say, a half a ton of meal (:)) leaves €5k to the merchant....

kowtow

Dawggone wrote: »

It's nothing to do with hi/lo input Tim.
Every blend/nut that leaves the merchants yard puts ~€100 in his pocket.

Average 100cow herd feeding, say, a half a ton of meal (:)) leaves €5k to the merchant....

How does that (merchant) margin compare with other EU countries I wonder?

Is it really just scale, in which case it's the feed blenders we should be encouraging to merge, not the co-ops.

How many rations would be sold in Ireland without some imported ingredient(s)?

Dawggone

kowtow wrote: »

How does that (merchant) margin compare with other EU countries I wonder?

Is it really just scale, in which case it's the feed blenders we should be encouraging to merge, not the co-ops.

How many rations would be sold in Ireland without some imported ingredient(s)?

I can only speak for my neck of the woods Kow. The only blends that are sold here, that I know of, are to poultry. These blends would have a high inclusion of wheat and triticale.

All dairy/beef/pig operations feed either home grown or locally sourced straights.


Best of luck trying to merge feed merchants...they would cut each other's throats!
The industry is very lucrative indeed.

kowtow

Dawggone wrote: »

...they would cut each other's throats!
The industry is very lucrative indeed.

It's the local way.

They'll compete in everything except price.

Edit:

but put another way, how realistic is it to avoid the blend and mix on farm? Is it just laziness / lack of information stopping us doing it - access to straights, or on farm investment?

Having an all grass mantra ringing in the ears can't be helping I know, but that's a big old margin to be handing away even if you're only feeding the cows on highdays & holidays.

Dawggone

kowtow wrote: »

It's the local way.

They'll compete in everything except price.

You're not wrong...

alps

kowtow wrote: »

It's the local way.

They'll compete in everything except price.

Edit:

but put another way, how realistic is it to avoid the blend and mix on farm? Is it just laziness / lack of information stopping us doing it - access to straights, or on farm investment?
.

Put your effort into tendering for your own specified ingredient mix, and offer the miller a specified amount of product over a 3 or 4 month period....he'll hate you but he will deal with you.
Make sure he completely understands that you are pricing all available millers and you will go on the lowest tender..no renegotiions.....I'm pretty sure that there is 40€+ per tonne yo be saved....

Dawggone

kowtow wrote: »

It's the local way.

They'll compete in everything except price.

Edit:

but put another way, how realistic is it to avoid the blend and mix on farm? Is it just laziness / lack of information stopping us doing it - access to straights, or on farm investment?

.

I can't understand it. Guys won't buy a half decent grab for a loader but will support their merchants horse racing habit...

Merchants (and I DO know what I'm talking about on this!) just love the "high energy" nut. Cardboard has cellulose...which is a starch...

If you need energy use rolled maize.
If you need protein use soya.
Simples.



I forgot about the cal-mag and minerals.

kowtow

Dawggone wrote: »

I forgot about the cal-mag and minerals.

And the Himalayan Rock Salt.

Those 'aul Himalayan Cows are powerful milky...

jaymla627

Dawggone wrote: »

I can't understand it. Guys won't buy a half decent grab for a loader but will support their merchants horse racing habit...

Merchants (and I DO know what I'm talking about on this!) just love the "high energy" nut. Cardboard has cellulose...which is a starch...

If you need energy use rolled maize.
If you need protein use soya.
Simples.



I forgot about the cal-mag and minerals.

In fairness their is a serious difference between millers and the quality of their nuts, their was cases this spring locally where guys when they switched millers this year went up 4-6 liters overnight at the same feed rate/ment to be same spec nut.....
Theirz one crowd locally that if I was quoted 60-70 a tonne cheaper for their nuts over the crowd I'm with I still wouldn't use them, funny thing is they have a fleet of new scanias under them its not hard to see where the money to run these is coming from

keep going

Where were ye all hiding a couple of weeks ago when I suggested looking at a a setup that would allow me to be more flexible in terms of what feeds I can use in the parlour, I was told bin/merchant all the way.dont think your far off with 100euro a.ton gross margin but its hard to see the scale neede to justify the extra on farm investment in going down that route especially if you paying labour

Timmaay

Dawggone wrote: »

It's nothing to do with hi/lo input Tim.
Every blend/nut that leaves the merchants yard puts ~€100 in his pocket.

Average 100cow herd feeding, say, a half a ton of meal (:)) leaves €5k to the merchant....

Agreed, but switch from a 500kg/cow low input to 1500kg high input, and now the average Irish farmer is letting the merchant skim 15k, them extra litres start becoming very expensive. At the end of the day the main thing is to maximise your litres from your own land (here in Ireland that means from grass), if you can produce extra litres from bought in feed competitively and help dilute your fixed costs, fire ahead, easy to do profitably at 35c but more tricky at current situation, my aim is to batton down the hatches and keep it simple, so I ain't going to bother chasing these very marginal litres of milk.

Dawggone

keep going wrote: »

Where were ye all hiding a couple of weeks ago when I suggested looking at a a setup that would allow me to be more flexible in terms of what feeds I can use in the parlour, I was told bin/merchant all the way.dont think your far off with 100euro a.ton gross margin but its hard to see the scale neede to justify the extra on farm investment in going down that route especially if you paying labour

Definitely worth exploring Kg.

How much for, say, 24 in parlour feeders? 24 would be about right for 100cows?
How many kgs per 100cow herd of nuts per year?
Are we happy with the merchant making €100/ton margin?

Timmaay

Dawggone wrote: »

Are we happy with the merchant making €100/ton margin?

From hearing through the grapevine, with Glanbia alone there is a massive massive variation in quotes for the very same nuts (at least 50e/ton), with some purchasing groups getting much more competitive prices. That alone for 100cow farmer feeding 500kg is 2500k in your back pocket every year!