Dairy Chit Chat- Please read Mod note in post #1

Timmaay

Actually DSW if I'm putting out only 1/2 the fert as you, and you got a similar overall farm SR then maybe we are well short on spreading what we should be?? Although I'm getting paranoid now ha, let me check the cost control planner tomorrow and see if I definitely have put in all the fertilizer purchases ha!

Deepsouthwest

Timmaay wrote: »

Actually DSW if I'm putting out only 1/2 the fert as you, and you got a similar overall farm SR then maybe we are well short on spreading what we should be?? Although I'm getting paranoid now ha, let me check the cost control planner tomorrow and see if I definitely have put in all the fertilizer purchases ha!

My fert is high, all compound spread here after first round of urea, but I still think it's one of my better investments.
And don't worry I have no intention of putting my full COP up here!

frazzledhome

Tim 430 kg from 850 kg nuts, nothing wrong there. What was it last year?

Where it loses its shine is when you factor in sr of 2,6 it only gives an output per ha of 1200 kg. nothing wrong here at first glance.

If you put the whole picture together I looks to me as you're replacing grass with meal.

Proper grass measuring and budgeting should shift these numbers. Nothing wrong with bringing in outside forage but your figure for Fert would suggest to me that you may be skimping on it.

Again nothing wrong with that if you were feeding 300 kg of meal. Roughly Fert costs need to be near of greater than nut costs (roughly).

Agrinet tells you 9 tonne grown, that's correct if you were measuring and entering figures. Not to be too smart but a well maintained lawn grows 7.

I'd say there's loads of money to be gotten out of your place by better grass management and try to cut out the substitution that seems to be going on.

Btw, leave the maize where it is and it'll be replaced by lots af hi DM bales made with more grass measuring

Here's a calc that may prove or disprove my assement but will give you a goodish handle on your tonnes of grass utilised

2200kg - kg meal/cow (bought forage also)
+
Milk solids/cow * 6.4
*
Sr/1000
=
Tonnes of grass utilised.

Timmaay

Going on a rough estimate of imported feed, 10tons utilised with the above formula. I'd defo agree about the fertiliser, need to front load more, actually document use in every Paddock instead of letting my dad tip away with the spreader wherever he feels like ha. And actually cut back meal to nothing after breeding.

Greengrass1

Timmaay wrote: »

Going on a rough estimate of imported feed, 10tons utilised with the above formula. I'd defo agree about the fertiliser, need to front load more, actually document use in every Paddock instead of letting my dad tip away with the spreader wherever he feels like ha. And actually cut back meal to nothing after breeding.

Ahhh wouldn't say cut it back to nothing Tim.
Feed what needs to be fed would always be dad's motto and he's not to far wrong tbh. 730kgs for 525 kgsms here. I won't be able to drop the meal any more than that

Timmaay

Greengrass1 wrote: »

Ahhh wouldn't say cut it back to nothing Tim.
Feed what needs to be fed would always be dad's motto and he's not to far wrong tbh. 730kgs for 525 kgsms here. I won't be able to drop the meal any more than that

Well at times, could have dropped back the meal more last summer definitely. Dropping from 10 to 2 autumn calvers should straight up save me 4ton of meal, average that out over 100cows it's 40kg off the 820kg/cow, all them 1/4c/l savings will hopefully make a decent difference.

Brown Podzol

Timmaay wrote: »

Well at times, could have dropped back the meal more last summer definitely. Dropping from 10 to 2 autumn calvers should straight up save me 4ton of meal, average that out over 100cows it's 40kg off the 820kg/cow, all them 1/4c/l savings will hopefully make a decent difference.

Once you have the information regarding your costs and you know what can be achieved its a matter of tweeking after that. Moving the chess pieces to suit yourself.

billie holiday

It pays to feed a little meal. BCS, Yield, Convenience herding etc etc

Timmaay

5 heifers outa 7 born so far, result! Nothing like early born replacements to comfy hit targets and get into the parlour 2years later.

whelan2

Timmaay wrote: »

5 heifers outa 7 born so far, result! Nothing like early born replacements to comfy hit targets and get into the parlour 2years later.

sssssh, dont jinx it. A heifer calf born doesnt mean it will be a milker, alot can happen from birth on

rangler1

cosatron wrote: »

Look it I understand that and everyman to his own but I feel that the removal of single farm payment would pave the way to opening up more lands to young ambitious farmers who are willing and able via rental, partnerships and sale of land. With regards the stewardship of the countryside, would it not be better for the land to be farmed right then left sitting there growing gods grass.

At least the sofa farmers aren't adding to the surplus of beef, cereals and milk that's around at the moment.......can't see much to be gained in making it worse

Milked out

See in the journal there they have advice on spring feeding with 3 scenarios. They are assuming average quality silage which is fair enuv but they are putting intake at 14 and 15kgs. That seems extremely low even for xbreds, those of ye with cross's would ye feed more than that? When inside I make it up for 23kgs anyway and it seems to be all ate anyway

Greengrass1

Milked out wrote: »

See in the journal there they have advice on spring feeding with 3 scenarios. They are assuming average quality silage which is fair enuv but they are putting intake at 14 and 15kgs. That seems extremely low even for xbreds, those of ye with cross's would ye feed more than that? When inside I make it up for 23kgs anyway and it seems to be all ate anyway

10kgs intake fir wk 1 after calving rising a kg wk till they hit 18 kgs is what I work off.
Heifers definitely not eating 18 kg here
I'd say 16

Deepsouthwest

whelan2 wrote: »

sssssh, dont jinx it. A heifer calf born doesnt mean it will be a milker, alot can happen from birth on

But it's a good start!

keep going

Milking this morning I thought the bags were a little slack so it put me thinking.right it dosent look this weather is turning any time soon and I tried grazing 2 days this week and the ground is not up to it.so the silage available is good in dry cow terms firstcut silage but not milking quality stuff and they are getting 4 kilos of 16 p.ration is to be ordered on monday and debating what ration and how should I feed and should I look at fodderbeet even though id say it would be hard got.just throwing it out there as there must be alot more guys in this position that would normally be grazing

Milked out

keep going wrote: »

Milking this morning I thought the bags were a little slack so it put me thinking.right it dosent look this weather is turning any time soon and I tried grazing 2 days this week and the ground is not up to it.so the silage available is good in dry cow terms firstcut silage but not milking quality stuff and they are getting 4 kilos of 16 p.ration is to be ordered on monday and debating what ration and how should I feed and should I look at fodderbeet even though id say it would be hard got.just throwing it out there as there must be alot more guys in this position that would normally be grazing

What silage test like? How would you feed the beet, have you a feeder? You could feed a 3 way mix alongside your silage and parlour nuts, may be easier than beet. Beet pulp maize and barley or something or maybe just a load of beet pulp. Could you get a smaller load of ration Mon and get an 18 or 20% p load? May balance the silage better. The fodder beet may help intakes alrite tho they go mad for it but it's a pain in the hole feeding I find, unless you can get loads washed and chopped and get thru it fast enuv

freedominacup

keep going wrote: »

Milking this morning I thought the bags were a little slack so it put me thinking.right it dosent look this weather is turning any time soon and I tried grazing 2 days this week and the ground is not up to it.so the silage available is good in dry cow terms firstcut silage but not milking quality stuff and they are getting 4 kilos of 16 p.ration is to be ordered on monday and debating what ration and how should I feed and should I look at fodderbeet even though id say it would be hard got.just throwing it out there as there must be alot more guys in this position that would normally be grazing

Have you a second bin? What is good dry cow stuff? 4kilos? The farmers journal article set my teeth on edge to put it mildly. Basically advocating under feeding cows. Maintenance is almost 6 kilos of meal alone. Half a kg of bodyweight loss covers around 3.5 litres of milk. Every kg dm of 12 me silage is good for around 2 litres of production. So 25 litres production with cows on 6 kg of meal means cows require a silage intake of 11 kgs dm of top quality stuff. It's doubtful that they would ever have enough energy a a feeding rate of 6kg of meal with any silage under 75dmd. 16% pr would depend on the sources. You're definitely going to be short of energy and my nutrition lecturer used always say to look after the energy and you won't be a million miles out with the protein. Handiest good source of energy would be rolled wheat/barley in a midday feed on silage.

I know grass at this time of year is not as good as good quality silage. This was really hammered home yesterday when cows were forced in @ 11am. They had far more milk yesterday evening than any other day when they were out until evening milking. You have to graze it to manage it but it's not making much of a contribution to output. Big help to fresh calvers to be out and eases pressure on busy days calving but as an aid to production I'd be sceptical.

jaymla627

freedominacup wrote: »

Have you a second bin? What is good dry cow stuff? 4kilos? The farmers journal article set my teeth on edge to put it mildly. Basically advocating under feeding cows. Maintenance is almost 6 kilos of meal alone. Half a kg of bodyweight loss covers around 3.5 litres of milk. Every kg dm of 12 me silage is good for around 2 litres of production. So 25 litres production with cows on 6 kg of meal means cows require a silage intake of 11 kgs dm of top quality stuff. It's doubtful that they would ever have enough energy a a feeding rate of 6kg of meal with any silage under 75dmd. 16% pr would depend on the sources. You're definitely going to be short of energy and my nutrition lecturer used always say to look after the energy and you won't be a million miles out with the protein. Handiest good source of energy would be rolled wheat/barley in a midday feed on silage.

I know grass at this time of year is not as good as good quality silage. This was really hammered home yesterday when cows were forced in @ 11am. They had far more milk yesterday evening than any other day when they were out until evening milking. You have to graze it to manage it but it's not making much of a contribution to output. Big help to fresh calvers to be out and eases pressure on busy days calving but as an aid to production I'd be sceptical.

Aidan Brennan really needs a good kick up the hole with some of the crap he is coming out with, nearly making jk look good the video curtains had up yesterday was comical with cows going to the hocks coming out of a paddock....
Teagasc really need to change tact on their grass at all costs mantra given the way ground conditions are and what weather is forecast their advice at present is about as much use as tits on a bull realitive to what's happening on farms

yosemitesam1

freedominacup wrote: »

Have you a second bin? What is good dry cow stuff? 4kilos? The farmers journal article set my teeth on edge to put it mildly. Basically advocating under feeding cows. Maintenance is almost 6 kilos of meal alone. Half a kg of bodyweight loss covers around 3.5 litres of milk. Every kg dm of 12 me silage is good for around 2 litres of production. So 25 litres production with cows on 6 kg of meal means cows require a silage intake of 11 kgs dm of top quality stuff. It's doubtful that they would ever have enough energy a a feeding rate of 6kg of meal with any silage under 75dmd. 16% pr would depend on the sources. You're definitely going to be short of energy and my nutrition lecturer used always say to look after the energy and you won't be a million miles out with the protein. Handiest good source of energy would be rolled wheat/barley in a midday feed on silage.

I know grass at this time of year is not as good as good quality silage. This was really hammered home yesterday when cows were forced in @ 11am. They had far more milk yesterday evening than any other day when they were out until evening milking. You have to graze it to manage it but it's not making much of a contribution to output. Big help to fresh calvers to be out and eases pressure on busy days calving but as an aid to production I'd be sceptical.

Teagasc would want to improve on cow nutrition, no real excuse as the majority of the work is done already. The French did a study in 1970 that showed grass intake reduced by 10% as DM went from 18-12%

keep going

jaymla627 wrote: »

Aidan Brennan really needs a good kick up the hole with some of the crap he is coming out with, nearly making jk look good the video curtains had up yesterday was comical with cows going to the hocks coming out of a paddock....
Teagasc really need to change tact on their grass at all costs mantra given the way ground conditions are and what weather is forecast their advice at present is about as much use as tits on a bull realitive to what's happening on farms

Dont like attacking teagsc normally and understand that they have to over egg grass to try and get lads to buy in but at the moment any grazing I have seen in west cork is a disaster.the ground is sopping and different to other years where often you just had to get the top 2 or 3 inchs dry it is soaked right through with springs appearing never seen before.i dont think cows got anything from the two relatively good days they were out here and the grass wasnt grazed properly so what are you achieving. Dont get me wrong calving to grass and grass forming the greatest part of the diet is the way foward but current condtions are terrible.yeah think ill move up to5 or 6 for a few days and see how they react

Mehaffey1

Post mid season blues kicking in here. Getting effed off to the end with 1000 cows/ R1s and R2's to look after with only two competent staff. As to how some folk on here cope with 100+ milkers then R2's and calves to manage by yourself I have to beg how do you cope?

Mehaffey1

Greengrass1 wrote: »

10kgs intake fir wk 1 after calving rising a kg wk till they hit 18 kgs is what I work off.
Heifers definitely not eating 18 kg here
I'd say 16

10kgs total Dm per day? Seems awful low.

At peak grass only we're still only allocating 17kg per day per cow with a low weight x breed herd.

mf240

keep going wrote: »

Milking this morning I thought the bags were a little slack so it put me thinking.right it dosent look this weather is turning any time soon and I tried grazing 2 days this week and the ground is not up to it.so the silage available is good in dry cow terms firstcut silage but not milking quality stuff and they are getting 4 kilos of 16 p.ration is to be ordered on monday and debating what ration and how should I feed and should I look at fodderbeet even though id say it would be hard got.just throwing it out there as there must be alot more guys in this position that would normally be grazing

Id say your best bet is to up the meal for the moment .

Fodder beet will make more work and at this time of year thats the last thing you need.

Mehaffey1

mf240 wrote: »

Id say your best bet is to up the meal for the moment .

Fodder beet will make more work and at this time of year thats the last thing you need.

How much is FB costing and how much could you feed to a non transitioned herd, 2Kgdm/day?

whelan2

Mehaffey1 wrote: »

Post mid season blues kicking in here. Getting effed off to the end with 1000 cows/ R1s and R2's to look after with only two competent staff. As to how some folk on here cope with 100+ milkers then R2's and calves to manage by yourself I have to beg how do you cope?

What are R1s and R2s

Greengrass1

Mehaffey1 wrote: »

10kgs total Dm per day? Seems awful low.

At peak grass only we're still only allocating 17kg per day per cow with a low weight x breed herd.

10 kgs for 1st wk after calving.
18kgs when there at full tilt 6-8 was after calving

trixi2011

whelan2 wrote: »

What are R1s and R2s

Rising 1 year old heifers and r2 rising 2 year old heifers

Dawggone

Why are we damned into grazing grass that has little nutritional value for fresh calvers?
I'm grazing drys on what you would consider a substitute for good forage/concentrates. Freedom explains in his posts (optimistically I would add) the value of late winter grass.

Are we dumbing down our cows to suit the line that's pedalled from the acknowledged establishment?

Just saying like...

Greengrass1

Dawggone wrote: »

Why are we damned into grazing grass that has little nutritional value for fresh calvers?
I'm grazing drys on what you would consider a substitute for good forage/concentrates. Freedom explains in his posts (optimistically I would add) the value of late winter grass.

Are we dumbing down our cows to suit the line that's pedalled from the acknowledged establishment?

Just saying like...

Recent grass samples in Moore park grass @84 dmd and 20%P

Have you silage that good?
Cows only out for 3 hrs today and only picked at silage when they came in.

Dawggone

Greengrass1 wrote: »

Recent grass samples in Moore park grass @84 dmd and 20%P

Have you silage that good?
Cows only out for 3 hrs today and only picked at silage when they came in.

Lol
Greengrass we're not on the same hymn sheet!
My forage is supporting well over 30l of milk without any concentrates whatsoever...

There was a video doing the rounds recently from Curtin's...