Saving Stupidity why ???

Sunny Dayz

Seriously who would bring a 12 week old or even a 3 year old up to climb a mountain?! I climbed Mt Errigal a few weeks ago (I've never climbed Crough Patrick), I found it tough so why on earth would you bring such small children with you. I'm guessing the 12 week old was carried up, what if the parent slipped, stumbled on loose stone, gust of wind caught them off guard...

Menas

Sunny Dayz wrote: »

Seriously who would bring a 12 week old or even a 3 year old up to climb a mountain?! I climbed Mt Errigal a few weeks ago (I've never climbed Crough Patrick), I found it tough so why on earth would you bring such small children with you. I'm guessing the 12 week old was carried up, what if the parent slipped, stumbled on loose stone, gust of wind caught them off guard...

Whatever about the parents been victims of their own stupidity, hate to see kids been victims of their parents stupidity.
But could you imagine the fury from the God botherers if Social services intervened?

6781

I'm one of those who climbed it yesterday. When I arrive at the car park I was told mass was cancelled. When I asked if it was ok to climb I was told yes but be careful. I didn't see any signs or get any warnings from Gardai or other volunteers at the bottom. I'm a fairy experienced mountain hiker and athough the conditions were poor I felt I'd be okay. As I climbed I passed a few mountain rescue guys but received no warnings about going further. It was only when I got down I heard the authorities were telling people not to climb. It wasn't too bad at the bottom but it wasn't very nice at top. I had my doubts but I was confident in my ability as I have been in worse conditions on harder mountains, I did sea to summit some years back in simular conditions too. Also I felt I had the correct equipment with me which is very important. But saying all that I did see some crazy things like a guy climbing it with a six pack of Guinness and his daughter and other guy carrying his baby in a sling. If people are going mountain climbing no matter what the conditions are like it's very important to have the correct equipment and I don't think it's ever right to bring children under 12 on that mountain. I think if I was told not to climb it I would do what I was told, I guess it was hard to individually warn everyone.

Paramite Pie

Shelflife wrote: »

You may well be right, doesn't answer the question of whether it's right for their lives to be put at risk because people clearly and blatantly ignore safety advice .

Honestly I think the outcome of death is not proportionate punishment to the stupidity of those getting in trouble. I was implying that the people in the Emergency Services certainly feel it's right to risk their lives, or else they wouldn't do it.

Deciding who's worth saving based on perceived (or in this case, actual) stupidity makes me uncomfortable. I know some very smart people (mentality) but they bumble the simplest, basic tasks by over complicating them.

Ultimately the Emergency Services are in less danger due to training and equipment. The fact that many of them volunteer also makes the question somewhat redundant -- they've already decided.

eamonnq

VinLieger wrote: »

The couple with the 3 year old and 12 month old definitely should be

12 week old !!

They should be, but will they be ?? Probably not.

kowloon

Emergency services exist to help people, I don't see how someone who risks their safety for religion deserves this help any less than someone who does it for sport. Call them out for their stupidity, even charge them for reckless endangerment of others, but the emergency services aren't there to be arbiters.

Jaden

6781 wrote: »

I'm a fairy experienced mountain hiker

Sometimes the innuendo just writes itself.....

topper75

diomed wrote: »

Has anyone ever "did the Reek" and not mentioned it?

Given that there is nothing up there beyond a small church that is usually locked, the answer I would venture is "no".
You do it partly for the views, partly for the exercise, but mostly to tell people you did it so as to inspire envy and/or admiration.
It's your ego that drives you up the path. It's egos that drive people up Everest.

Drive the new Ford Ego 1.6 Diesel

€18,995 ex works

-You'll never guess what I did
-Do you want to see the pictures
-What about that then

all included as standard

eamonnq

kowloon wrote: »

Emergency services exist to help people, I don't see how someone who risks their safety for religion deserves this help any less than someone who does it for sport. Call them out for their stupidity, even charge them for reckless endangerment of others, but the emergency services aren't there to be arbiters.

I don't think it is the religion vs sport aspect that is the problem here, it is the fact that they were allegedly advised against it on safety grounds.

Shelflife

kowloon wrote: »

Emergency services exist to help people, I don't see how someone who risks their safety for religion deserves this help any less than someone who does it for sport. Call them out for their stupidity, even charge them for reckless endangerment of others, but the emergency services aren't there to be arbiters.

Religion has nothing to do with this discussion.

Emergency services exist to help people that get into trouble, however if someone deliberately and in spite of receiving clear warnings still goes ahead and put themselves in harms way would you expect the emergency services to put themselves in danger to save them ?

eamonnq

6781 wrote: »

I'm one of those who climbed it yesterday. When I arrive at the car park I was told mass was cancelled. When I asked if it was ok to climb I was told yes but be careful. I didn't see any signs or get any warnings from Gardai or other volunteers at the bottom. I'm a fairy experienced mountain hiker and athough the conditions were poor I felt I'd be okay. As I climbed I passed a few mountain rescue guys but received no warnings about going further. It was only when I got down I heard the authorities were telling people not to climb. It wasn't too bad at the bottom but it wasn't very nice at top. I had my doubts but I was confident in my ability as I have been in worse conditions on harder mountains, I did sea to summit some years back in simular conditions too. Also I felt I had the correct equipment with me which is very important. But saying all that I did see some crazy things like a guy climbing it with a six pack of Guinness and his daughter and other guy carrying his baby in a sling. If people are going mountain climbing no matter what the conditions are like it's very important to have the correct equipment and I don't think it's ever right to bring children under 12 on that mountain. I think if I was told not to climb it I would do what I was told, I guess it was hard to individually warn everyone.

Genuine question, why did you climb it yesterday ?

kippy

Shelflife wrote: »

So despite been warned not to climb Croagh Patrick as it was dangerous and the emergency response set up had been compromised by the bad weather the night before, lots of people went ahead and climbed it anyway.

are we under a moral obligation to save them in the event of an accident or should we just let nature take its course and weed out the stupid people.

Why should emergency services be forced to put their lives at risk when people clearly and against all clear warnings endanger themselves.

In fairness I'd suggest a lot of the time these rescue folk spend time rescuing people who should never have gotten into the situation they were in in the first instance, people doing things in bad weather, wearing unsuitable clothes, bad maintenance of equipment, simply not fit for the task.

The rescue guys in fairness to them will put their lives on the line no matter what, same as the rest of the emergency services.

mikom

They should have set up a cordon of steel around the reek, made up of Al Porter, Stephen Fry, and minibus load from Panti bar.

Eugene Norman

If we stopped saving people who acted stupidly we would stop saving most people. Fires don't light themselves. Cars don't crash themselves. Mountains don't climb themselves. Seas don't swim or sail themselves in bad weather.

Some people may be diligent and unlucky or have to travel on the sea in bad weather. Most don't.

Sure charge the irresponsible more but we can't have rescue services deciding who to rescue or not.

The poll results are shocking.

6781

eamonnq wrote: »

Genuine question, why did you climb it yesterday ?

I was with some guests from over seas who wished to climb it who are regular hikers too. One of them wished to do it for religious reasons the rest just for a challenge. Had we been warned, like I said we would have given it a miss.

DeadHand

Eugene Norman wrote: »

The poll results are shocking.

I think the poll is how it is because of the religious element. Just look at the snide remarks. AH'ers are using the incident to indulge in their safe and fashionable pastime: kicking Christians and Christianity. If it had been a purely secular event or one inspired by any other religion we'd see more realistic poll results.

I mean, a duty to help these people definitely exists regardless of how idiotic their behaviour.

Having said that, the people who took the baby and toddler up the mountain on such an inclement day are dangerously moronic. I turned back from the playground on the same day. I'd have no qualms if they were to face some legal consequences for their reckless actions.

mailforkev

Anyone needing rescuing should be billed for it.

They shouldn't be left up the hill to die obv but there was a clear message from the authorities not to climb it then breaking that advice comes at a price.

Nevermind the fact that these climbers were endangering the lives of the rescue teams (even if only by a tiny bit) by dragging them up after them.

The idiots with the small children should be spoken to also.

6781

mailforkev wrote: »

Anyone needing rescuing should be billed for it.

They shouldn't be left up the hill to die obv but there was a clear message from the authorities not to climb it then breaking that advice comes at a price.

Nevermind the fact that these climbers were endangering the lives of the rescue teams (even if only by a tiny bit) by dragging them up after them.
.

It's a voluntary service, if they needed to go to hospital I'm sure they will get a bill.
Were you there to see this clear message from the authorities?

mailforkev

6781 wrote: »

It's a voluntary service, if they needed to go to hospital I'm sure they will get a bill.
Were you there to see this clear message from the authorities?

Sorry, I left out an "if" there was a clear message.

I did hear it on the radio early enough yesterday morning so there was some kind of official warning.

The rescue should be monetised in such cases. The rescuers may be volunteers but I'm sure many charities would be happy to take the charge.

6781

mailforkev wrote: »

Sorry, I left out an "if" there was a clear message.

I did hear it on the radio early enough yesterday morning so there was some kind of official warning.

The rescue should be monetised in such cases. The rescuers may be volunteers but I'm sure many charities would be happy to take the charge.

My point is it wasn't that clear on the ground. Fair enough if you listen to the radio. It's only a small entrance to the mountain from the main car park one Garda telling people it wasn't safe would have made a massive difference.

Reiver

Cork boy 55 wrote: »

These Cimmerians are going to see if they can meet Crom on top of his mountain.
Crom dwells on a great mountain. What use to call on him? Little he cares if men live or die. Better to be silent than to call his attention to you; he will send you dooms, not fortune! He is grim and loveless, but at birth he breathes power to strive and slay into a man's soul. What else shall men ask of the gods?

Fire and wind come from the sky, from the gods of the sky. But Crom is your god, Crom and he lives in the earth. Once, giants lived in the Earth. And in the darkness of chaos, they fooled Crom, and they took from him the enigma of steel. Crom was angered. And the Earth shook.

Fire and wind struck down these giants, and they threw their bodies into the waters, but in their rage, the gods forgot the secret of steel and left it on the battlefield. We who found it are just men. Not gods. Not giants. Just men. The secret of steel has always carried with it a mystery. You must learn its riddle. You must learn its discipline. For no one - no one in this world can you trust. Not men, not women, not beasts.

The sword. This you can trust.

These ones who dared to challenge the gods yesterday, perhaps they are more than us mere men.

Tony EH

So, 85 voters have never done a stupid thing in their lives.

Yeh right.

:pac:

Discodog

Anyone ignoring warnings is an idiot however it appears that no one took control & stopped people. Why wasn't the car park closed ?

Massimo Cassagrande

There should be an inquiry.

Yawn.

dr.fuzzenstein

Eugene Norman wrote: »

If we stopped saving people who acted stupidly we would stop saving most people. Fires don't light themselves. Cars don't crash themselves. Mountains don't climb themselves. Seas don't swim or sail themselves in bad weather.

Some people may be diligent and unlucky or have to travel on the sea in bad weather. Most don't.

Sure charge the irresponsible more but we can't have rescue services deciding who to rescue or not.

The poll results are shocking.

The poll results are in line with the usual AH crowd. Fortunately the country is run by real people who have brains and compassion, not this hateful lot.
If a foreigner were to research Ireland and found AH as his source, he would conclude that the Irish hate children over everything else except maybe animals, that 50% of the Irish want Stalinistic enforcement of draconian laws and the other 50% would "definitely" openly defy them and what you're going to do about it?, that we hate anyone and everyone on public transport and on the roads, that we hate helping people in general, especially if there's money involved, that everyone is solely out to bilk you for all your cash, that Ireland is full of thieves, scangers and generally dodgy and unpleasant people and that the country is run by complete idiots instead of the self proclaimed geniuses who have all the answers and are giving them away free on the internet.
As that foreigner I would have to ask myself why there aren't mass brawls at every street corner every day, since it seems that the people in this country are always violently opposed to each other and the longer the debate rages, the more extreme and entrenched the viewpoints become and as long as more than one Irish person is in the room, every chance of agreement goes out the window.
AH is a very skewed perspective of Ireland. If this lot were in charge, this place would be like North Korea.

Samaris

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

The poll results are in line with the usual AH crowd. Fortunately the country is run by real people who have brains and compassion, not this hateful lot.
If a foreigner were to research Ireland and found AH as his source, he would conclude that the Irish hate children over everything else except maybe animals, that 50% of the Irish want Stalinistic enforcement of draconian laws and the other 50% would "definitely" openly defy them and what you're going to do about it?, that we hate anyone and everyone on public transport and on the roads, that we hate helping people in general, especially if there's money involved, that everyone is solely out to bilk you for all your cash, that Ireland is full of thieves, scangers and generally dodgy and unpleasant people and that the country is run by complete idiots instead of the self proclaimed geniuses who have all the answers and are giving them away free on the internet.

*grins* All of AH except you, of course.

dr.fuzzenstein

Samaris wrote: »

*grins* All of AH except you, of course.

I did vote yes! :cool:

6781

Discodog wrote: »

Anyone ignoring warnings is an idiot however it appears that no one took control & stopped people. Why wasn't the car park closed ?

The Gardai of a care of duty to the public, if it was so bad they would turn people away or at least be encouraging people not to climb which from what I saw they didn't. I think RTE, The Journal and other media outlets over hyped the warnings not to climb

lalababa

If the casualties know they will be charged money there is a good chance some of them won't call it in. The situation will usually get worse then for both the casualties and the would be rescue unit e.g. descending while lost - leading to falls. There was a similar debate a few years ago about charging call ins to the fire brigade along the lines if it might cost me £200 to call it in sure somebody else will do it.

Neyite

I've no problem with people wanting to climb in yesterdays conditions provided they are able-bodied, wearing suitable attire and at least age 13 upwards.

If people wanting to do it for spiritual reasons, whatever floats your boat. I know plenty who do it for that and respect their beliefs even if I might not embrace those beliefs myself.

Its a challenging climb, and people forget that. It can be very dangerous if people are ill equipped, stray off the path, or act the maggot, there are many injuries annually and at least every couple of years, deaths have occurred.

But people who bring up little children and infants are idiots pure and simple. They should be ashamed of themselves.

Reiver

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

The poll results are in line with the usual AH crowd. Fortunately the country is run by real people who have brains and compassion, not this hateful lot.
If a foreigner were to research Ireland and found AH as his source, he would conclude that the Irish hate children over everything else except maybe animals, that 50% of the Irish want Stalinistic enforcement of draconian laws and the other 50% would "definitely" openly defy them and what you're going to do about it?, that we hate anyone and everyone on public transport and on the roads, that we hate helping people in general, especially if there's money involved, that everyone is solely out to bilk you for all your cash, that Ireland is full of thieves, scangers and generally dodgy and unpleasant people and that the country is run by complete idiots instead of the self proclaimed geniuses who have all the answers and are giving them away free on the internet.
As that foreigner I would have to ask myself why there aren't mass brawls at every street corner every day, since it seems that the people in this country are always violently opposed to each other and the longer the debate rages, the more extreme and entrenched the viewpoints become and as long as more than one Irish person is in the room, every chance of agreement goes out the window.
AH is a very skewed perspective of Ireland. If this lot were in charge, this place would be like North Korea.

That is because we are strong.

If I die, I have to go before Crom, and he will ask me, "What is the riddle of steel?" If I don't know it, he will cast me out of Valhalla and laugh at me. That's Crom, strong on his mountain!

Freud says the Irish were impervious to psychoanalysis. Take thy Stygian witchcraft elsewhere.

Tony EH

dr.fuzzenstein

watsch my nu äckschn movie!

sinead88

I think they're absolute eejits for going up there, but wouldn't want anyone's death or injury on my conscience, so think we've a moral duty to rescue them. I think there should be a fine if you need rescued while totally disregarding warnings though. There was a 3 year old who woded up with hypothermia through no fault of his/her own and I think the parents should be ashamed.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

Anyone bringing a 12 week old baby on a mountain climb in any weather is a ****ing idiot.

cerastes

Duffy the Vampire Slayer wrote: »

Anyone bringing a 12 week old baby on a mountain climb in any weather is a ****ing idiot.

It'll toughen them up a bit and its a help when you get tired of carrying the haversack.