Meat Damage Fiocchi 50gr HP223

yubabill1

Exit wound @ 50yds after shooting through a clump of thick weed.

28.00 for 50.

Good medicine.

Can't see any accuracy difference with 55gr VMax.

aaakev

Nice, im using the 50gr vmax Fiocchi and they do serious meat damage to rabbits.

Pop eyes out of foxes too

Cass

Exactly the type of thread i was going to start. Sorry in advance if i hijack it a little, but need to ask about these rounds.

Last week i zeroed my .223 on the Fiocchi 50gr hp. I ws using inappropriate mounts and a cheap low powered, FFP, scope. Got decent results with tight groups. I had 5 Superformance which really surprised. Never been a fan but they cloverleafed though the Remmy.

I also tried the Fiocchi in the Father's new 223. They were excellent. Ragged one hole groups.

Roll on yesterday. Got myself a new Sidewinder 30, new Warne rings and so set off to mount the scope and zero the rifle. Here is where the problems started. They would group for a couple of shots then climb before dropping back down. Then after waiting for a bit i'd try again and it's start 2 inches high and drop down to my zero where it'd be tight for a couple of shots and then back up.

I thought it was the scope, rings, etc. so stripped and cleaned the rifle, checked all the rings, etc were tight. All fine on that end. Still i could only hold a group for a couple of shots and get flyers.

My other mate has a simialr .223 and he told me that because of the better optics, the imperfection and s in the bullets performance showed through. Now i did not understand him at first but essentially what he was saying was because the Tasco was low powered, FFP, etc. that by "chance" and instinct i managed to get better groups as i could not keep the exact same hold. So in essence i was holding off without knowing i was. Whereas with the Sidewinder i could more than double the zoom and hold a perfect hold which meant the bullets acted "naturally". So they showed their true colours.

He told me that he got the same results with the 50gr HP, but the 55 gr V-max were far better giving consistent 1/ inch groups and said if i wanted a truely consistent, tight round get the Hornady in 55 gr V-max. Just that little bit better.

Turns out my rifle is 1:9 and the Fathers 1:12. So what rifles are ye using and are you suffering any consistency problems with the 50gr hp? Have you tried the 55 gr V-amx in Fiocchi? Any difference?

I'm not looking for superb target quality, but if the first bullet is varying between spot on and 2 inches high at 100 i'm concerned that when i'm out after Charlie that the first shot won't hit it's mark or worse still wound rather than drop him.

TIA, and apologies for the long/hijacking post.

yubabill1

Cass wrote: »

Exactly the type of thread i was going to start. Sorry in advance if i hijack it a little, but need to ask about these rounds.

Last week i zeroed my .223 on the Fiocchi 50gr hp. I ws using inappropriate mounts and a cheap low powered, FFP, scope. Got decent results with tight groups. I had 5 Superformance which really surprised. Never been a fan but they cloverleafed though the Remmy.

I also tried the Fiocchi in the Father's new 223. They were excellent. Ragged one hole groups.

Roll on yesterday. Got myself a new Sidewinder 30, new Warne rings and so set off to mount the scope and zero the rifle. Here is where the problems started. They would group for a couple of shots then climb before dropping back down. Then after waiting for a bit i'd try again and it's start 2 inches high and drop down to my zero where it'd be tight for a couple of shots and then back up.

I thought it was the scope, rings, etc. so stripped and cleaned the rifle, checked all the rings, etc were tight. All fine on that end. Still i could only hold a group for a couple of shots and get flyers.

My other mate has a simialr .223 and he told me that because of the better optics, the imperfection and s in the bullets performance showed through. Now i did not understand him at first but essentially what he was saying was because the Tasco was low powered, FFP, etc. that by "chance" and instinct i managed to get better groups as i could not keep the exact same hold. So in essence i was holding off without knowing i was. Whereas with the Sidewinder i could more than double the zoom and hold a perfect hold which meant the bullets acted "naturally". So they showed their true colours.

He told me that he got the same results with the 50gr HP, but the 55 gr V-max were far better giving consistent 1/ inch groups and said if i wanted a truely consistent, tight round get the Hornady in 55 gr V-max. Just that little bit better.

Turns out my rifle is 1:9 and the Fathers 1:12. So what rifles are ye using and are you suffering any consistency problems with the 50gr hp? Have you tried the 55 gr V-amx in Fiocchi? Any difference?

I'm not looking for superb target quality, but if the first bullet is varying between spot on and 2 inches high at 100 i'm concerned that when i'm out after Charlie that the first shot won't hit it's mark or worse still wound rather than drop him.

TIA, and apologies for the long/hijacking post.

I'm using a tricked-out T3 1:8 24" with a BSA 2.5-12 x 44. It's a hunting setup and I have only put 10 of the Fiocchi through it.

No problems with a wandering POI, maybe in the future.

I get 15mm centre-to-centre with Hornady 55gr VMax.

For cheap rabbiting, I think the 50gr Fiocchi will do fine.

Afterthought- you'll probably try another round in the Remy? And a few more Fiocchi in the father's? If you see the wandering in the father's rifle, it's probably the ammo.

If the Remy does the same with other ammo, it may be the trigger takes a bit of getting used to.

yubabill1

aaakev wrote: »

Nice, im using the 50gr vmax Fiocchi and they do serious meat damage to rabbits.

Pop eyes out of foxes too

They sound like an awesome round.

I like FMJ's for rabbits, but they've become really expensive.

The VMax does too much damage for my liking (and I had a lot of problems trying to shoot through grass/weeds with Hornady 55gr - they frag immediately).

hiddenmongoose

Iv swapped over from hornady to the 50gr fiocchi vmax for my 223, I have started using it more often than the 308 as its simply cheaper !!Im finding the vmax a great round, consistant .5moa accuracy @100m and great knock down power,
foxes,



Goats

50gr 223 fiocchi on the right 308 on the left, both found against the pelt under the skin of the exit side of neck shots

goats

the neck shot damage

the round found in the wound

cleaned up

the round on the exit side against pelt from an oblique angle heart lung shot.Went in one side between the ribs(without hitting a rib) through the vitals and out between the ribs to nestle inside the pelt,it never touched a bone.


cleaned up

German pointer

Put the fiochii HPs in the bin or only use them just to get on paper as any one I came across found them inconsistent including myself and then get yourself the fiochii 50gr vmax
Or if you know a dealer hoarding any hornady steel match get them

aaakev

yubabill1 wrote: »

They sound like an awesome round.

I like FMJ's for rabbits, but they've become really expensive.

The VMax does too much damage for my liking (and I had a lot of problems trying to shoot through grass/weeds with Hornady 55gr - they frag immediately).

They are! Good accurate round too. My 223 is a fox gun and goat gun, i haven't bothered going for the tightest groups i can because if it groups 1 inch its a kill shot every time.

This shot went straight between the eyes and blew the back of the skull out, should have taken a picture from the back to show

Cass

aaakev wrote: »

My 223 is a fox gun and goat gun, i haven't bothered going for the tightest groups i can because if it groups 1 inch its a kill shot every time.

I like to make sure the gun can do tight groups but i don't demand precision target accuracy either as it's also a hunting rifle. However with group ranging from 1/2 inch to 2.5 inches within a 5 shot group, same batch, etc. it's hard to have confidence when taking that first or subsequent shot.

aaakev

Cass wrote: »

I like to make sure the gun can do tight groups but i don't demand precision target accuracy either as it's also a hunting rifle. However with group ranging from 1/2 inch to 2.5 inches within a 5 shot group, same batch, etc. it's hard to have confidence when taking that first or subsequent shot.

If i group 1 inch or under im happy the gun is on, i dont need to go so far as having each round touching. I used to go for that accuracy but its a hunting rifle as you say

Cass

Don't think you're getting my point. Using the Fiocchi 50 gr HP the first round can be either spot on or 2.5 inches off. After firing a few shots they can either stay on my POA or drift. There is no predictability to where the first shot will go.

So when out hunting, i see a fox, i aim but am not sure if it'll still be on zero or high, low, left, right, etc. So i don't take the shot out of concern it'll miss or worse, wound.

It has nothing to do with target shooting. Surely no one, including yourself, fires one shot and assumes the gun is spot on and will consistently put all the following shots into the same 1 inch area?

aaakev

Cass wrote: »

Don't think you're getting my point. Using the Fiocchi 50 gr HP the first round can be either spot on or 2.5 inches off. After firing a few shots they can either stay on my POA or drift. There is no predictability to where the first shot will go.

So when out hunting, i see a fox, i aim but am not sure if it'll still be on zero or high, low, left, right, etc. So i don't take the shot out of concern it'll miss or worse, wound.

It has nothing to do with target shooting. Surely no one, including yourself, fires one shot and assumes the gun is spot on and will consistently put all the following shots into the same 1 inch area?

I was talking about the vmax rounds i use, think we got our wires crossed! The vmax have been very consistent in my gun.

I check accuracy quite often, ill usually fire a 3 shot group every few trips out to make sure its still on

yubabill1

I think a 1" group is fine for hunting.

A 2.5" group is unacceptable for hunting, as you correctly say, Cass in this day and age.

Will punch some more paper to satisfy myself about the 50gr HP's.

Vegeta

No experience with the hollow points but have used the Fiocchi with the vmax in my 223 (1 in 9) and they provided reasonable accuracy and precision.

Cass could you do more groups with the Tasco as a control experiment?

What's your expectation in terms of group size with the Remington?

Cass

aaakev wrote: »

I was talking about the vmax rounds i use, think we got our wires crossed!

We did indeed. Sorry about that. Thought you were referring to the HP.

yubabill1 wrote: »

I think a 1" group is fine for hunting.

Completely agree

A 2.5" group is unacceptable for hunting, as you correctly say, Cass in this day and age..

While unacceptable if i thought for a moment the first hit spot on and by shot number three she started to climb i'd live with it. Wouldn't be happy but would understand what i had to do. However with the first shot (and most times that is all you get) being so critical it's a must that it be consistent and precise.

Vegeta wrote: »

Cass could you do more groups with the Tasco as a control experiment?

Couldn't lad. Too low, uncomfortable and frankly my mate was right that with the FFP and crosshairs blocking out the target i had a 1 - 1.5 inch "blind spot" that the centre of the crosshair blocked out. So i could have been unknowingly holding off and not even have realised it.

Also, and it only came back to me, the wind while almost the same strength was coming from behind me. Whereas yesterday it was left to right and i think the hollow points, in a strong and blustery cross wind were acting up. Wouldn't mind getting to fire a few shots today when it's much calmer.

Even if it was the wind it wouldn't change my mind to change ammo as if they act like that in a wind then they're effectively useless to me.

I think the v-max/BT are the way to go.

What's your expectation in terms of group size with the Remington?

At least 1 inch at 100 yards and sub 2" at 200. IOW effecive for hunting at longer ranges and as most of my comps will be 100 yards or less that takes care of that.

hedzball

I tried those hps and despite being very accurate about 7 out of 50 rounds were hard primers between a tikka t3 and a 700 we had the same issue so that was that!








'hdz

yubabill1

Two hurried groups with 50gr HPs.

Not my best, but good enough from improvised field position.

Will use them for a while and see.

yubabill1

You guys obviously have manners, so I'll say the obvious - those were crap groups.

Will break out the bench and the rock when the weather improves.

Will watch out for hard primers, hedz.

Cass

Didn't want to be nasty but as you're looking for opinions 1.5 inches at any distance short of 200 yards would be, in my book, crap. What distance was it?

The thing with the top group is you have the 1.5 inch horizontal that could be put down to wind, but the verticals of 1 inch would not be my idea of good grouping. I was getting the same, but worse. IOW 1.5 - 2 inch of unpredictable verticals.

The Father's new Howa can pack them into a ragged hole at 100. Then between 1/2" and 3/4 at 200. Unbelievable accuracy. My own was able to do 1/2" at 100 and 3/4 to 1.25" at 200. I now know, after being on the range today for the comp, that it was wind and the hollow points out of my rifle do not act well. The BT's worked far, far better so going to experiment with some over the coming weeks.

yubabill1

Cass wrote: »

Didn't want to be nasty but as you're looking for opinions 1.5 inches at any distance short of 200 yards would be, in my book, crap. What distance was it?

The thing with the top group is you have the 1.5 inch horizontal that could be put down to wind, but the verticals of 1 inch would not be my idea of good grouping. I was getting the same, but worse. IOW 1.5 - 2 inch of unpredictable verticals.

The Father's new Howa can pack them into a ragged hole at 100. Then between 1/2" and 3/4 at 200. Unbelievable accuracy. My own was able to do 1/2" at 100 and 3/4 to 1.25" at 200. I now know, after being on the range today for the comp, that it was wind and the hollow points out of my rifle do not act well. The BT's worked far, far better so going to experiment with some over the coming weeks.

100yds approx. (stepped it out). No wind, no excuses - bad shooting caused most of it IMHO.

Agreed the groups are crap. I wouldn't rely on them for anything other than a vague idea of how the ammo is performing - rested on my jacket, no pod, no rest, no bench and done in a hurry etc.

I'm not claiming to be a target shooter, (but I can shoot 3 shots as well as anyone - including a guy who won an all-army in the UK - and then I need a break for 10 minutes, preferably more - old dog/new tricks).

Past experience tells me I can make those groups a good bit smaller from the bench, but we'll have to wait and see.

Cass

yubabill1 wrote: »

...... rested on my jacket, no pod, no rest, no bench and done in a hurry etc.

Can't say anything about that myself.

Having tried to do the same a couple of weeks ago my dependence on back bags, front rests, big fancy bipods really showed through when i took it all away. I was rocking, shaky, couldn't hold even the most average of groups and found myself way out of my comfort zone.

So my "job" over the next few weeks/months is to start working on and developing my free handed and partially supported (bipod only) shooting.

yubabill1

Cass wrote: »

Can't say anything about that myself.

Having tried to do the same a couple of weeks ago my dependence on back bags, front rests, big fancy bipods really showed through when i took it all away. I was rocking, shaky, couldn't hold even the most average of groups and found myself way out of my comfort zone.

So my "job" over the next few weeks/months is to start working on and developing my free handed and partially supported (bipod only) shooting.

Have to say, it takes a brave man to post groups like that.

Like I said, you guys have manners.

But I can take criticism, where it's due.

If I can hold MOA in the field, I'm happy - not exactly MOA above, just bad shooting and I knew I was not following my protocols when I was squeezing them off, but I just kept hoping (i.e. wasting ammo).

lefthooker

yubabill1 wrote: »

You guys obviously have manners, so I'll say the obvious - those were crap groups.

Will break out the bench and the rock when the weather improves.

Will watch out for hard primers, hedz.

Credit for saying it as it is, I couldn't be happy with that group at all. I like shots to be touching at the very lest at 100 yds.

There's a lot of talk of how great the Fiocchi 50gr vmax are for the price but they just won't group in some barrels and twists. There's a 1in9 on my Steyr and it just will not group anything under 55gr with any consistency. My rounds of choice are now Hornady 55gr SP and Vmax, and 75gr TAP. No problem getting touching groups if I'm in tune.

The group below is 75gr @ 125yds. The 4th shot kinda takes away from the group.

Cass

yubabill1 wrote: »

Have to say, it takes a brave man to post groups like that.

lefthooker wrote: »

Credit for saying it as it is,

If everyone on the internet were to be believed there are no bad shooters and every gun is capable of a one hole group.

It takes time, patience, and a whole lotta bullets/rounds to find what gives you the best performance from your rifle. Some will no doubt be crap, some better and then that one (maybe two) that will sing through the gun.

Of course the rifle/bullet combo is only half the battle. If the shooter is average or less the rig will make up for only some of the shortcomings. But it's alwyas easier to blame the rig than admit you, as a shooter cannot do it. Had a lad some three years ago that was going to sell his Steyr not a couple of weeks after buying it. Swore blind it would not group. My mate, my Father and myself all took three shots from it. The biggest was my own at 15mm at 100 yards. The chap could not get below 1.5 inch (40mm or so).

FISMA.

Cass wrote: »

Last week i zeroed my .223 on the Fiocchi 50gr hp.
...
Turns out my rifle is 1:9

Neither 50 nor 55gr would be my first choice for a 1:9 twist.

I would start with a 68gr bullet and work from there.

Cass

You're spot on lad, but for some reason i had it in my head the rifle was 1:12 and my thinking was even if it's faster some rifles can do as well with the lighter bullets as the heavies. However you're right and i intend to try out some of the heavier rounds. If they work, and i don't see why they wouldn't, i'll stick with them.

yubabill1

Cass wrote: »

If everyone on the internet were to be believed there are no bad shooters and every gun is capable of a one hole group.

It takes time, patience, and a whole lotta bullets/rounds to find what gives you the best performance from your rifle. Some will no doubt be crap, some better and then that one (maybe two) that will sing through the gun.

Of course the rifle/bullet combo is only half the battle. If the shooter is average or less the rig will make up for only some of the shortcomings. But it's alwyas easier to blame the rig than admit you, as a shooter cannot do it. Had a lad some three years ago that was going to sell his Steyr not a couple of weeks after buying it. Swore blind it would not group. My mate, my Father and myself all took three shots from it. The biggest was my own at 15mm at 100 yards. The chap could not get below 1.5 inch (40mm or so).

Very true.

My rig will shoot a lot better than I can, even though it's set up for quick and dirty shooting.

90% of my shots are below 100-120 yds and I don't have any ambition to punch paper.

Won't beat Lefthooker's group, but if they go into 3/4" or so, I'll be very happy (prefer 1/2" of course).

Will post when I get them. If I get something the same results as Cass, I'll know the rifle doesn't perform with them.

FISMA.

yubabill1 wrote: »

Two hurried groups with 50gr HPs.
Not my best, but good enough from improvised field position.

Looks grand to me. It always amazes me how many snipers I meet on line. Then when I see them at the range, they are having a bad day!:)

I think people forget that hunters shoot off hand, sticks, trees, and just about anything else.

All you need for hunting is accuracy, which you have. Accuracy puts food on the table, precision wins matches.

I like to use the cheap stuff to stay in practice and then the expensive rounds to hone skills close to game day.

There's not much you can do about powder and primers, so try sourcing some ammo that has good bullets. Here are some of my favourite bullet - ammo manufacturer off the shelf combo's.

Sierra (Match or Game Kings) bullets - Federal Ammo
Nosler Partion's - Sellier & Bellot
Barnes - Federal Ammo
Berger VLD's - HSM ammo

and of course, hornady Amax.

yubabill1

FISMA. wrote: »

Looks grand to me. It always amazes me how many snipers I meet on line. Then when I see them at the range, they are having a bad day!:)

Thanks for the kind comments, FISMA.

I've been at this game long enough to know that those groups are not great and I'm not too worried.

Good info about the ammo, got good results with MatchKings a few years ago, but too rich for me. Haven't tried the others.

I usually buy at the cheap end - there's even a decent group I posted here a couple of years ago with Tulammo, but as you and Cass say - you would think there are no bad shooters on the net.

I'm not going to make up any excuses, I've got an accurate rifle and a reasonable scope (certainly for hunting, of course I've used the likes of Leupold MkIV, so I know the value of top-spec glass) so I expect to join the web sniper class with my next offering.

hedzball

FISMA. wrote: »

Neither 50 nor 55gr would be my first choice for a 1:9 twist.

I would start with a 68gr bullet and work from there.

1in9 would and should handle them all day..

ive 1in8 shot 40s into a clover at 100yards..




'hdz

yubabill1

hedzball wrote: »

1in9 would and should handle them all day..

ive 1in8 shot 40s into a clover at 100yards..
'hdz

I found that intriguing following an earlier post by hdz and got hold of a very few Remy 45gr HP's - one hole at 50yds from my T3 1:8.

yubabill1

Couldn't sleep. Get decision today on critical funding.

Scrubbed the bore -well due - and shot this group off my jacket as before.

This is as good as I can shoot in the field, so I quit while I was ahead. I reckon the Tikka likes the Fiocchi batch I bought.

Group is approx 14mm centre to centre, no wind, 100 ydsapprox as before.

Cass

Review of the Fiocchi with some other rounds here.

yubabill1

Cass wrote: »

Review of the Fiocchi with some other rounds here.

The VTR-15 can hold its own with a half-decent bolt.

Well may you wear it.:D

Cass

At 100 yards i'm delighted with the Remmy. She definitely can hold her own against a decent bolt action. Its at longer distances where the bolt action comes into it's own.

I did not retrieve the targets (not getting soaked) but the following were the averages at the set distances for each gun.

Howa

• @ 200 yards smallest group was 17 mm (or 0.6 inch).
• @ 300 yards smallest group was 44 mm (or 1.73 inch).

Remmy

• @ 200 yards smallest group was 27 mm (10.6 inch).
• @ 300 yards smallest group was 64 mm (2.51 inch).

The above are best approximations. I used an 80 power spotting scope and had the same target on the table in front of me. I judged the bullet impact point on the actual target (at the distance) and recorded it on the target i had on the table in front of me. I then measured from the two furthest holes and subtracted the bullet diameter.

The above are also the best groupings i got. They may improve depending on conditions. However, and in keeping with the theme of the thread the Fiocchi 50 gr HP (hollow points) performed the worse out of both rifles and at all the distances. My opinion on them is in calm, good conditions they are perfectly fine. However in anything above an 8 mph wind and especially if it's coming from the side they tend to not only be blown off in the direction of the wind (obviously) but also climb slightly.

The FMJ (Full metal Jackets) while not ideal, were used for one purpose. To see how a non HP would act in anticipation of using the V-max or some other ballistic tipped round/bullet.

I'm having a little trouble sourcing them in local dealers and even online they are scare. I know one or two dealers that i've been told have them (Hornady or Fiocchi) but distance is an issue.

For the moment i've both rifles zeroed on the best performing round each had on the day. For the Howa it was the Remington 45 gr HP UMC. For the Remmy R-15 it was the American Eagle 55 gr FMJ.

Once i get a chance to test some BT rounds i'll post it here.

yubabill1

Saw fiocchi VMax in outdoor sports Mullingar on 20th July - bought 2 boxes of the 50grHP's here.

Cass

Just after checking their website. They have them alright.

Bit of a drive, but next time i'm over at the range i'll travel on and drop in to get a box or two. I need one bullet type that'll perform in both rifles. Don't mind if the Howa outperforms the Remmy (to be expected to some degree) but if i can get the one round to do both then it solves all types of headaches for me and gives me a staple round to use regardless of gun, conditions, etc.

Plus i'm reckoning that they'll perform better than their HP brethren simply because of the bullet type.

yubabill1

Cass wrote: »

Just after checking their website. They have them alright.

Bit of a drive, but next time i'm over at the range i'll travel on and drop in to get a box or two. I need one bullet type that'll perform in both rifles. Don't mind if the Howa outperforms the Remmy (to be expected to some degree) but if i can get the one round to do both then it solves all types of headaches for me and gives me a staple round to use regardless of gun, conditions, etc.

Plus i'm reckoning that they'll perform better than their HP brethren simply because of the bullet type.

outdoor will sell over the net and don't charge postage for orders over 75.00, I think.

Not sure if the 50gr VMax will get every bit of performance out of the 1:9 Remy at longer ranges?

Griffin Hawe had a box of 69gr Matchkings a few weeks ago - at 2.00 a pop, imagine they could still be there.

Cass

yubabill1 wrote: »

outdoor will sell over the net and don't charge postage for orders over 75.00, I think.

Good to know. Although postage of €5 is still decent enough. Saves on €20 worth of fuel.

Not sure if the 50gr VMax will get every bit of performance out of the 1:9 Remy at longer ranges?

It may not get the best out of the Remmy but with 55gr FMJ (IOW not HP) doing good enough for both hunting and comps (group/performance wise) i cannot imagine the 50gr being any worse.

In fact, as shown above, the 45 HP in Remmy were better than the 50 gr Fiocchi in the rifle. Perhaps the faster speed was a bit better in the faster twist (which kinda goes against the popular thinking) but they did regardless.

Griffin Hawe had a box of 69gr Matchkings a few weeks ago - at 2.00 a pop, imagine they could still be there.

I'm definitely going to try the heavies at some point. Problem is with everything from 55gr down being more popular it's hard to nail down both a supplier and consistent supplier.

It's an ongoing process, however for the purpose of this thread i think i'm going to give the Fiocchi 50 gr HP a miss from now on. Too inconsistent and prone to bad deflection from wind. I mean when are you going to get good to perfect conditions for every time you want to go out?

yubabill1

Cass wrote: »

Good to know. Although postage of €5 is still decent enough. Saves on €20 worth of fuel.


It may not get the best out of the Remmy but with 55gr FMJ (IOW not HP) doing good enough for both hunting and comps (group/performance wise) i cannot imagine the 50gr being any worse.

In fact, as shown above, the 45 HP in Remmy were better than the 50 gr Fiocchi in the rifle. Perhaps the faster speed was a bit better in the faster twist (which kinda goes against the popular thinking) but they did regardless.

I'm definitely going to try the heavies at some point. Problem is with everything from 55gr down being more popular it's hard to nail down both a supplier and consistent supplier.

It's an ongoing process, however for the purpose of this thread I think i'm going to give the Fiocchi 50 gr HP a miss from now on. Too inconsistent and prone to bad deflection from wind. I mean when are you going to get good to perfect conditions for every time you want to go out?

I suppose a lot of signposts are pointing to taking a look at the good old 55gr VMax Hornady if something is needed that might suit both rifles.

Agree surprising results with lighter rounds. Can't figure that one, but certainly seems to be a phenomenon.

The heavy Matchkings are too rich for me - I've a mortgage and young kids.

The Fiocchi 50grHP's are a bit of a curate's egg, alright. Only for hunting and only if your rifle likes them and as you say, watch the wind: They're probably an old design - haven't pulled one to see, but from your wind experience most likely flat base, I imagine.

Going green - you must be having a ball with the R-15.

Cass

yubabill1 wrote: »

I suppose a lot of signposts are pointing to taking a look at the good old 55gr VMax Hornady if something is needed that might suit both rifles.

Looking that way. I've been told the 50gr Fiocchi V-max are Hornady bullets but how true that is i don't know.

Agree surprising results with lighter rounds. Can't figure that one, but certainly seems to be a phenomenon.

I've seen it with my CZ Kevlar (1: twist) that shot lighter rounds as well if not better than the heavies it "should" shoot well.

Of course we use weight of a bullet when discussing the best round for a twist rate when in fact it's more based on bearing surface length. However given that a caliber bullet can only have a set diameter it stands to reason that a heavier bullet will be longer hence longer bearing surface.

An example in .3008 would be the Lapua 155 gr. Although they are 155 gr they have almost the same bearing surface length as the Sierra/Berger 175 gr. They are also marginally shorter than Sierra 190gr so the Lapua 155 gr can work very well in faster twist rated rifles than they should. I've used them to great success in a 1:10 twist rifle when they are really designed for 1:13 or 1:12.

The heavy Matchkings are too rich for me - I've a mortgage and young kids

I know the feeling. I've a Jack Russell to support and a Red Bull addiction that i cannot shake.

The Fiocchi are hard to ignore for pure value for money. However no point in going for something that simply doesn't work and more importantly makes you doubt your and the rifles ability to accurately hit the mark from the first to last shot.

The Fiocchi 50grHP's are a bit of a curate's egg, alright. Only for hunting and only if your rifle likes them and as you say, watch the wind: They're probably an old design - haven't pulled one to see, but from your wind experience most likely flat base, I imagine.

Possibly.

Going green - you must be having a ball with the R-15.

I'm loving it alright. Bit of a mix up with the grant letter that is now sorted so while i'm disappointed i haven't received the grant yet it is on the way. Cannot wait to get the rifle home and properly check it out. I'm still new to the semi auto scene so doing a lot of reading of both online advice and the owner manual so i don't mess things up.

dodderangler

This Is the damage on a cub with American eagle boat tail 55grain at over 100 yards

Cass

Hollow point or FMJ?