Leaf Thread

stesaurus

Kind of pointless without knowing the state of charge. The i3 was at 3/4 bars, looks like they were trying to use the range prediction at 100km but that would have depended on previous driving so who knows what charge they actually had.
Also no mention of turtle mode in the Leaf, surely that would have kicked in before going flat dead.

Another Top Gear style entertainment challenge

samih

As I said don't speak Norwegian so don't know how they tested. The video was just to point out that driven under harsh conditions and/or at high speed the Leaf "fuel" consumption seem to suffer way more than ICE would.

All this IMO.

PS. 12000 km covered on the Leaf since mid-August.

So drive the ICe car with the same amount of fuel and you'd get what 4 kms ?

In what matters, that being real life driving the Leaf has a little bit more range than the I3 for all it's fancy carbon, however the I3 is on paper more efficient due to the lighter weight.

I still think the test is BS and rigged in favour of the German cars.

Villain

Some blinkers Mad_Lad

stesaurus

[Deleted User] wrote: »

In what matters, that being real life driving the Leaf has a little bit more range than the I3 for all it's fancy carbon, however the I3 is on paper more efficient due to the lighter weight.

What does that statement even mean? There's nothing 'on paper' about it. The i3 has a smaller battery and manages to get about the same range with better performance so yeah it's more efficient.

s.welstead

s.welstead wrote: »

What does that statement even mean? There's nothing 'on paper' about it. The i3 has a smaller battery and manages to get about the same range with better performance so yeah it's more efficient.

Suppose it is more efficient, but not a lot more, considering it has just about 3 Kwh less usable, for all that fancy very expensive carbon.

I see the flaw in the test looking back.

If you look at the leaf pic it didn't start with a 100% charge, it started at about 80% but they base their test by both cars showing 100 kms left in the tank which is meaningless because it depends on how the cars are driven by how the computer calculates the range.

What they should have done is start showing the % remaining in the battery itself or start from a 100% charge. The test is flawed !

Villain

Driving an EV at that kind of speed is flawed, they perform awfully compared to ICE.

I remember first time I took my 142 Leaf on the motorway and drove to 125kmh, it was rather sad to see how quick the battery dropped.

It can be seen as a positive by some that driving and EV makes you more aware of your speed and power consumption but for most it's just a reason to laugh at EVs!

BoatMad

Taking an EV as a complete system , measuring energy stored versus energy consumed , EV s have sweet spots of efficiency just like ICE, even f the sweet spot band is wider in a BEV.

Hence the leaf will be an awful lot less efficient are very high speeds, then at low ( lower ) speeds. Available discharge rate in Li , is lower at high current , heat loss in motor , frictional and aerodynamic loss ( most of which are square law relationships ) all sap efficiency

Ultimately , these issues will be solved , just like there are in an ice by having power reserves. Hence BEVs Are going to need not only an ability to get 500 km from a charge, but to do that 500km at speed.

As I said before consumer will consume all available battery capacity almost irrespective of amount. Humans tend not to be self limiting !

BoatMad

It can be seen as a positive by some that driving and EV makes you more aware of your speed and power consumption but for most it's just a reason to laugh at EVs

No , it's s reason to laugh at say the leaf. Being blown off the road by a tesla P85D at speed, is no laughing matter . It just makes you realise how puny your ice really is and electric motors are the ds bs as far as sport car performance. It's the batteries that suck.

BEVs will usher in an era of fantastic sports cars. Better then any petrol ones to date.

Villain

BoatMad wrote: »

No , it's s reason to laugh at say the leaf. Being blown off the road by a tesla P85D at speed, is no laughing matter . It just makes you realise how puny your ice really is and electric motors are the ds bs as far as sport car performance. It's the batteries that suck.

BEVs will usher in an era of fantastic sports cars. Better then any petrol ones to date.

It will be very interesting to see the day an EV can compete in a WRC event, the stages can be long and road sections too

BoatMad

Villain wrote: »

It will be very interesting to see the day an EV can compete in a WRC event, the stages can be long and road sections too

Electric cars will ultimately never be allowed to compete with ice. Ice simply hasn't the capability of delivering that power in a small package

The electric motor is far superior to a ice . It's the power storage that's the issue.

The magic in ice is the fuel , the engine is a heap of 19th engineering bag of bolts.

Follow the rise of the electric road racing bike to see what's possible. These days no ice bike can compete with its acceleration and speed

In the early days of hill climbing events , the Stanley Steam car was banned from entering as , like an electric motor , a steam engine develops nearly max torque at zero revs. Once we see sufficient battery capacity , you'll never drive an ICE again.

The point being that the ICE car won't travel more than 4 Km for the same amount of fuel as the EV, probably less at those speeds too.

And the test not starting with a fully charged battery is a complete Joke !

Starting with a range of 100 Km on the Guess'O'Meter and not 100% charge is madness because the 3 cars would probably report 100 kms at different Kwh. Ridiculous !

cros13

I suspect the i3 may have limited motor power output during the "test" too. It's varies motor power based on data from the BMS.

Sustained high speed in the i3 regularly causes the car to limit power and in some cases it's not obvious that it's done that.

Does the I3 not tell you the power consumed by the motor like the Leaf ?

cros13

Deleted User wrote: »

Does the I3 not tell you the power consumed by the motor like the Leaf ?

It has a numerical instantaneous output display on the dash that you need to go through a bunch of menus to even turn on. You'd then need to have driven the car enough to know what limited power output in each situation looks like.

In many power limiting situations (but not all) segments of the power meter gray out but you'd need to be paying attention to notice that especially since parts of the same display gray out above your set eco pro mode spped limit as well without any power limiting being involved.

Even if it were limiting the power I expect it wouldn't matter for most driving. Haven't heard of this in the I3 yet.

cros13

Deleted User wrote: »

Even if it were limiting the power I expect it wouldn't matter for most driving. Haven't heard of this in the I3 yet.

I have had power limiting a couple of times. Usually after extended periods over 150km/h or after a period of extremely aggressive driving.

Usually you back off a bit and it restores full power within a couple of seconds.

cros13

cros13 wrote: »

I have had power limiting a couple of times. Usually after extended periods over 150km/h or after a period of extremely aggressive driving.

Usually you back off a bit and it restores full power within a couple of seconds.

Hardly voltage sag ? why would they limit the power ? no reason if the electrics are up to the job.

cros13

Deleted User wrote: »

Hardly voltage sag ? why would they limit the power ? no reason if the electrics are up to the job.

There's a wide variety of reasons including thermal limits on other parts of the drivetrain.

Villain

Racing a EV based on current specs available is just silly whether the battery is 100% or 80%, it will just make them look silly.

You would be far better off comparing torque, there the EV's have a fighting chance

cros13

cros13 wrote: »

There's a wide variety of reasons including thermal limits on other parts of the drivetrain.

Shouldn't have to limit power under normal conditions, even sustained high speeds.

cros13

Deleted User wrote: »

Shouldn't have to limit power under normal conditions, even sustained high speeds.

I've hit similar limits on the Leaf.

You're just not driving fast enough Mad_Lad.

I drive plenty fast since range isn't an issue at 100-120-130 kph over 135 kms !

peposhi

http://www.ecars.bg/blogs/elektromobili-1/1226-nissan-leaf-30-kwh-bateria-225-km-probeg

30kw battery Leaf test drive in France... Not bad at all

Pretty good, I wonder what speed though ?

Travelling the wicklow mountains proved to me that long steep hills don't impact range all that much, though I wouldn't be doing 70 mph on those roads either but still I was pleasantly surprised.

BoatMad

cros13 wrote: »

I have had power limiting a couple of times. Usually after extended periods over 150km/h or after a period of extremely aggressive driving.

Usually you back off a bit and it restores full power within a couple of seconds.

the leaf never lasts long enough at that speed to get hot anyway !:D

mylesm

Deleted User wrote: »

No I never underestimate the power of fools !

That's why I said that the electrician can check it out on the day and decide then whether to install the 16 or 32 amp and the customer should be notified to begin with that it will depend on an assessment done on the day.

I believe something can be installed that will cut the power to the EV if it senses too much power being drawn, will keep the shower going. Or vice versa , whichever you deem the more important device to keep going.

In houses where There are 2 Electric Showers which would carry a risk of blowing Main ESB Fuse if both were on at same time we simply fit a Priority Unit which only allows the first one on to be used and only when it is off can the other be switched on very common
mylesm

mylesm

mylesm wrote: »

In houses where There are 2 Electric Showers which would carry a risk of blowing Main ESB Fuse if both were on at same time we simply fit a Priority Unit which only allows the first one on to be used and only when it is off can the other be switched on very common
mylesm

This is why I say most home charge point installations should have no issue charging at 6.6 Kw because most people won't really be showering after Midnight when most people charge. I am sure the same priority unit could be fitted before the Leaf EVSE ?

Even if not then there this can be assessed by the Electrician before the installation or even the purchase of the car.

There are quiet a lot of people with gas/oil and solid fuel heating that have electric showers and I think this is a mad waste of energy, I have a pumped shower only that uses the hot water in the tank.

No excuse for "it can't be done" or "Irish homes aren't properly wired" or "can't be done, this is Ireland"