Almost 100,000 cars in Ireland don’t get driven at all

Bigus

From the journal

A drop from 330,000 declarations annually .

A lot of ten owner cars out there now :rolleyes:

A lot of time saved in Garda station stamping I'd say,
330,000 declarations at say 3 mins = 1833 man hours saved, no wonder there's no cars and bikes being robbed.

http://www.thejournal.ie/motor-tax-loads-of-cars-off-the-road-2228629-Jul2015/

ironclaw

There's a massive difference between the number that are declared off the road and the number that are actually not being driven. You don't see many cars lying up around Dublin so unless the folks down the country are hoarding up cars, I'd actually be slightly worried there are that many 'off the road' There should be some burden of proof that a car is genuinely off the road for the period stated e.g. NCT mileage readings etc.

Atlantic Dawn

They should place ANPR on all motorways and on the roads in to major cities to police off the road declarations and issue a hefty fine if people are caught.

Pov06

No surprise really.

Take a look at a few cars in a nearby shopping centre car park... You'd be surprised to see so many cars with out of date tax/NCT/insurance.

cmssjone

Pov06 wrote:

Take a look at a few cars in a nearby shopping centre car park... You'd be surprised to see so many cars with out of date tax/NCT/insurance.

When I walk my dog I quite often check out the cars for out of date tax etc. I had a shock at the amount the first time I did it and was surprised by the high levels in even so called affluent areas. If a private company was formed to give fixed penalty notices to these people they would very quickly make a fortune!

ironclaw

cmssjone wrote: »

If a private company was formed to give fixed penalty notices to these people they would very quickly make a fortune!

GoSafe could easily be equipped to this but that would take the type of thinking that is far beyond the realm of anything our public service can deliver.

Atlantic Dawn

I hadn't noticed as many in the last 6 months or so with no tax, last year there seemed to be much more. I suppose when the fines are so small and the policing of it so sheite it's worth the risk if you want to get around on the cheap.

Pov06

cmssjone wrote: »

If a private company was formed to give fixed penalty notices to these people they would very quickly make a fortune!

I agree this would be good but at the same time I've had cars parked up at my house with no discs when they are off the road or being fixed up.

It would be very unfair if a private company were given rights to just go and fine me for things like this.

It would probably work if they were limited to shopping centres as I can't see people abandoning cars there.

carzony

The amount of cars with no nct is shocking, In a way I don't blame people for that given the lack of enforcment/stupid waiting times.

no reason to let the tax/insurance slide though...

macplaxton

ironclaw wrote: »

so unless the folks down the country are hoarding up cars

That'll be me then.

Sh1tbag OToole

ironclaw wrote: »

There's a massive difference between the number that are declared off the road and the number that are actually not being driven. You don't see many cars lying up around Dublin so unless the folks down the country are hoarding up cars, I'd actually be slightly worried there are that many 'off the road' There should be some burden of proof that a car is genuinely off the road for the period stated e.g. NCT mileage readings etc.

At least in the country we have the space to hoard cars. In Dublin every car-shaped bit of ground has an owner trying to extract maximum market value out of it and comes with an angry lad shouting "Ya khaant paark heoir bud!"

Its just too frikken expensive to store a few classic cars in Dublin. A 1-car garage could make 800 a month in rent if you converted it to a living space and packed it with students. Anyone looking to store cars pretty much has to go outside of Dublin

macplaxton

For the record, I've five cars declared off-road (2 over 30 years, 3 under 30) and three taxed (1 over 30 years, 2 under 30).

I know a few people that don't just have a single old car, they inevitably are hoarders collectors.

dgt

Have 3 declared off the road myself, each car is a resto/project and don't see the road.

Anyone hear of anyone getting caught declared off the road?

bmm

Does this figure include 2nd hand cars for sale by dealers and privately.

hi5

I have four cars declared off the road, all vintage, some would say scrap:(

edburg

I have one car that's declared off road every winter myself.

I knew of a hoard, presume it still there, 40 cars plus that have not seen road in God knows how many years, ages vary from 50's through to late 90's. Man used to run 1 70's car under classic tax.

There a chap down road that has a handful classics which I doubt there declared seeing as they been stacked up awaiting resto. Could be wrong though.

jmrc

Wonder does this include all registered vehicles or just Cars....
are tractors included> just wondering

The declaration system stopped revenue loss so, fair play.

Sh1tbag OToole

I'm actually surprised there aren't more cars being declared off the road. I reckon there are still loads of cars sitting around since before 2013 when Pig Phil brought in the new system and the owner will have to be changed at some point to escape several 1000's worth of tax from the time it was sitting in the shed

If you ever look around an underground carpark under a block of flats there are usually several cars with layers of dust on them. I see loads of cars back home sitting in people's yards that aren't being used

kuro2k

Augeo wrote: »

The declaration system stopped revenue loss so, fair play.

I think it has actually cost the government, so many high tax cars that used to be taxed for 6 / 9 months have either been exported or are off the road full time now.

I have a 96 3 litre Toyota 4x4 with passenger tax parked up, government used to get appox 1k from me when I taxed it for 9 month of the year, they have got nothing from me since the new rule came in...

I know I'm not the only one

carzony

kuro2k wrote: »

I have a 96 3 litre Toyota 4x4 with passenger tax parked up, government used to get appox 1k from me when I taxed it for 9 month of the year, they have got nothing from me since the new rule came in...

I know I'm not the only one

Your not:D My neighbour has a 97 toyota pick up he uses to get to work and back but refuses to pay the tax since it's so high.

He just takes a chance on it. 3 years so far and not even a checkpoint has he seen :eek: His luck may well run out but look at the savings so far.

kuro2k

carzony wrote: »

Your not:D My neighbour has a 97 toyota pick up he uses to get to work and back but refuses to pay the tax since it's so high.

He just takes a chance on it. 3 years so far and not even a checkpoint has he seen :eek: His luck may well run out but look at the savings so far.

That's a different situation, I haven't driven mine since the new rule came in

selectamatic

You should really look into getting it commercialised or "converted" into a crew cab! It's the only way to keep older 4x4's like your one and it's not that hard to do. people will tell ya that you need to be registered for vat etc.. but farmers can do it as long as they have a herd number so there might be a few more exceptions. It's a grey area in the law and even if it's slightly bending the rules it's not enforced! Now I wouldn't be a fan of the so called crew cab conversions, they're actually not conversions just take out back seats if a 7/8 seater and leave the other 5 and fill up some paperwork but I ceertainly wouldn't see anything wrong with taking all back seats out and using as a 2 seater commercial

Red Kev

I've three off the road. One a basket case, one currently being stripped, the other is my former daily driver that I don't use at the moment as the oul fella can't get in or out of it. Should be back on the road early next year.

dgt wrote: »

Have 3 declared off the road myself, each car is a resto/project and don't see the road.

Anyone hear of anyone getting caught declared off the road?

I've read of a few in the papers and a mate who is a solicitor told me that he's come across plenty. (Roscommon-Sligo area). A few people have been banned, especially if it has no NCT. Apart from that the minimum fine seems to be around €400-500 for no tax, no NCT, usually no insurance and driving a car that's registered as off the road.

Bigus

So if there's 100k officially off the road there's probably another 100k to 200 that arent taxed, inc a good portion of the 56 k for sale on done deal alone .
Lots of people wouldn't declare their yoke off road if they bought a newer car without trading in .

Like kuro2k above I always used to tax a big yoke for 3 months every year and leave it sit for 7 chancing 2 months free plus I'd have regular car taxed too.
So a net loss to exchequer in my case now big stuff all gone to uk with no revenue.

Red Kev

There are also a huge amount of ordinary people who were on a 3 month on, three month off thing with the tax. It was abused massively. These people are now taxing their cars 12 months of the year.

I think myself the government are making more money out of it, either way I think it's a good thing.

billy few mates

My car has been off the road fully taxed and insured for the last six months while I'm currently living abroad. Under the old scheme I would have left it un-taxed and declared it of the road when I get back. Under the current scheme I pay it in case I decide to come back and need to drive it.
It's done about 200 miles since it's last service in February, the service history is going to look dodgy when I have it serviced again next year with possibly less than 1000 miles since it's last one...

CiniO

Red Kev wrote: »

There are also a huge amount of ordinary people who were on a 3 month on, three month off thing with the tax. It was abused massively. These people are now taxing their cars 12 months of the year.

Some of them are, some of they aren't.
People either don't tax or don't declare the car and keep driving then change ownership.
Or just simply declare it off the road and keep driving.
Chances for road check in some regions are equal to none, so there is no risk.

No system will help if there is no enforcement.
If average driver encountered a checkpoint at least once every few months, then every car would be taxed, ncted and insured.
And once people know they won't meet a checkpoint or chances of encountering one are about the same as meeting aliens on the way home, then they just take a chance...

porsche boy

Well I have two off road at the minute. 2 years for one to be over 30, 10 years for the other... taxing either of them at present is not an option based purely on the tax rates so, I have two rather lovely, rather large garden ornaments which I regularly wash/clean and run. Quite a nice way to spend an afternoon actually.

visual

The tax on older cars is very unjust and the hoops you have to jump through to declare vehicle off the road are harsh.

Of course they are losing revenue when most scramble to get cheaper car tax.

Taking money out of circulation in taxes don't help when country is in recession.

Making it difficult to declare car of road results in cars going untaxed

But judging by the I'm all right jack punish the other guy mentally we are ruled by idiots imposing poorly thought out regulations.

NickDunne

visual wrote: »

The tax on older cars is very unjust and the hoops you have to jump through to declare vehicle off the road are harsh.


Making it difficult to declare car of road results in cars going untaxed

Sorry, what hoops??

I recently bought a car but its sitting up at the moment. Printed off form RF150, filled in details and an option of 3 sections(depending on circumstances i.e. just imported or bought 2nd hand). Sent it off and received the receipt the same week. Done.

Sh1tbag OToole

NickDunne wrote: »

Sorry, what hoops??

I recently bought a car but its sitting up at the moment. Printed off form RF150, filled in details and an option of 3 sections(depending on circumstances i.e. just imported or bought 2nd hand). Sent it off and received the receipt the same week. Done.

It's a bit of a nuisance, you have to do it every year when many cars are just sitting unused years without end and this aspect of it serves no purpose other than to catch people out ryanair-style for not reading the fine print. I tried to declare one off road and because there was more than a months tax on it I couldnt. The old system was definitely a lot more user friendly

ironclaw

Sh1tbag OToole wrote: »

The old system was definitely a lot more user friendly

Unfortunately we live in a country where getting one over "the gubber'ment" in an overall self defeating social cycle is a national past time.

Whilst I agree you should be able to declare a car off the road for a long period e.g. 12 month installments, I feel the overall process is fair.

Seweryn

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

They should place ANPR on all motorways and on the roads in to major cities to police off the road declarations and issue a hefty fine if people are caught.

Would it not be better to forget the motor tax and put all taxes into fuels?

kuro2k

kuro2k wrote: »

I think it has actually cost the government, so many high tax cars that used to be taxed for 6 / 9 months have either been exported or are off the road full time now.

I have a 96 3 litre Toyota 4x4 with passenger tax parked up, government used to get appox 1k from me when I taxed it for 9 month of the year, they have got nothing from me since the new rule came in...

I know I'm not the only one

Considering the amount of declarations has fallen from 300k to 100k I think it's safe to assume that at least 100k (half) of that drop are now paying motor tax rather than going with the false declaration route.

No doubt some folk are like yourself.

hi5

Seweryn wrote: »

Would it not be better to forget the motor tax and put all taxes into fuels?

Fuel prices needs to be closely aligned with Northern Ireland, otherwise you would have massive fuel tourism/smuggling.

Seweryn

hi5 wrote: »

Fuel prices needs to be closely aligned with Northern Ireland, otherwise you would have massive fuel tourism/smuggling.

Same as it happens at borders all over continental Europe?

Lurching

I thought the newer Garda cars have the automatic plate scanners nowadays?
Surely it pops up on their screens to say whether Tax or NCT is valid?

If not, what else is this system for?

kuro2k

Seweryn wrote: »

Would it not be better to forget the motor tax and put all taxes into fuels?

You mean like in the past when the government abolished motor tax and put it on the cost of fuel only to reintroduce it a couple of years later?

We are already paying the motor tax via fuel prices!!

Seweryn

kuro2k wrote: »

We are already paying the motor tax via fuel prices!!

Let's leave it at that so. No point in having a separate bill for motor tax you are using your car or not.

marco_polo

Could be there are a few thousand people like my auld lad, he has about 3 complete bangers around the back, no intentions of restoring them or anything like that just it'd kill him to throw anything away :rolleyes:

5ub

marco_polo wrote: »

Could be there are a few thousand people like my auld lad, he has about 3 complete bangers around the back, no intentions of restoring them or anything like that just hates to throw anything away :rolleyes:

Same here, we have a Nissan Sunny here that was once the grandfathers, and a one or two other yokes that were picked up years ago but they haven't seen the light of day in years.

Sh1tbag OToole

Seweryn wrote: »

Let's leave it at that so. No point in having a separate bill for motor tax you are using your car or not.

Only if we can also have cheaper tax-free 'green petrol' to throw into my outboard

galwaytt

Lurching wrote: »

I thought the newer Garda cars have the automatic plate scanners nowadays?
Surely it pops up on their screens to say whether Tax or NCT is valid?

If not, what else is this system for?

Ha ! - you wish. But no, they don't. AMHIK :P

galwaytt

marco_polo wrote: »

Could be there are a few thousand people like my auld lad, he has about 3 complete bangers around the back, no intentions of restoring them or anything like that just it'd kill him to throw anything away :rolleyes:

Exactly, I know someone with (at the last count...) 22 cars like that. And we're not talking wrecks so. 540i, LS430, S320 various 7-series etc. None will ever see the road. Asked why he bought one particular car, he replied "I always wanted to see what the inside of a V8 looked like" !!

Sh1tbag OToole

ironclaw wrote: »

Unfortunately we live in a country where getting one over "the gubber'ment" in an overall self defeating social cycle is a national past time.

Whilst I agree you should be able to declare a car off the road for a long period e.g. 12 month installments, I feel the overall process is fair.

Why does it need to be done in installments? It should be good enough to say 'this car is off the road until I tax it again'.

The government gets ones over on us all the time to help banks in big prosperous European nations get their return on investment. Property tax, water tax, usc, broadcast charge (shelved till after next election) and nearly all these were instigated by Pig Phil who is living the good life on the Algarva, probably bumbling around some posh hotel with two pint glasses in his hand as we speak, back to the table full of business tycoons who earn an awful lot doing almost nothing

Streetwalker

Poor people can not afford a new car or the motor tax on their old cars. It is what it is.

ironclaw

Sh1tbag OToole wrote: »

Why does it need to be done in installments? It should be good enough to say 'this car is off the road until I tax it again'.

Because you are making the crucial mistake that people are honest. They are not. If they can get away with saving a few euro's here and there, at the expense of society, they will.

For instance, I travel a lot. Why can't I log in online and pause my car tax? I buy my 365 days and if I'm out of the country for 6 weeks, I can credit those forward to 2016. No problem in implementing that. We have the technology in the world today to do to his, we could even have an App. But that doesn't suit the public service as if you were to implement this, you'd probably put a few hundred out of the job. It would also take 15 years and a tribunal to set up. I'm fairly sure a private company could go from scratch to ANPR on every road in 12 months, a full end to end fair tax system. Same goes for insurance.

Its not in the interest of the State or any business for someone to be on extended credit. Hence, you impose a limit and a tight renewal date.

I fully agree with you however. I should be able to say 'Its off the road' and thats it.

turbocab

Seweryn wrote: »

Would it not be better to forget the motor tax and put all taxes into fuels?

yeh makes the best sense,fool proof pay as you use the fuel dont pay when you dont ,what could be fairer,

Sh1tbag OToole

ironclaw wrote: »

Because you are making the crucial mistake that people are honest. They are not. If they can get away with saving a few euro's here and there, at the expense of society, they will.

For instance, I travel a lot. Why can't I log in online and pause my car tax? I buy my 365 days and if I'm out of the country for 6 weeks, I can credit those forward to 2016. No problem in implementing that. We have the technology in the world today to do to his, we could even have an App. But that doesn't suit the public service as if you were to implement this, you'd probably put a few hundred out of the job. It would also take 15 years and a tribunal to set up. I'm fairly sure a private company could go from scratch to ANPR on every road in 12 months, a full end to end fair tax system. Same goes for insurance.

Its not in the interest of the State or any business for someone to be on extended credit. Hence, you impose a limit and a tight renewal date.

I fully agree with you however. I should be able to say 'Its off the road' and thats it.

Some people are honest, some not. Yet the government just tars everyone with the same brush. Sure it's easier for them to milk some more money from the honest folk to cover up the shortfall than to find the actual wrongdoers

unkel

Red Kev wrote: »

There are also a huge amount of ordinary people who were on a 3 month on, three month off thing with the tax. It was abused massively. These people are now taxing their cars 12 months of the year.

Dunno about that. A lot of those people are now on 3 month on, 6 month (or more) off and then "keep it in the family": change ownership to a friend / wife / family member so the back tax is written off automatically

Those people are now paying even less tax than before