When will the Lunar landings be accepted?

Reg'stoy

Was following the annual twitter lunar landings are fake tweets to Prof Brian Cox and Al Murray the comedian, such is the eclectic nature of my twitter account.

To be honest I had thought that this CT had been firmly debunked, but no; some people for (to me) unbelievable reasons still claim that the landings never happened. From the radiation would have killed them once they ventured beyond a certain point, to incorrect shadows been cast, to no stars in the pictures and my favorite how Stanley Kubrick's widow admitted that he had confessed on his death bed to been involved in the filming of the fake landing TV feed.

Brian Cox and Buzz Aldrin sum it up nicely in this tweet



So considering it's been over two years since it was discussed here, do any CT regulars think they all were faked, some were faked or they didn't happen as we are been led to believe.

The same feeds claiming they are fake seem to be young earth creationists because to accept that we can travel to other worlds might involve us finding non terrestrial life particularly on Mars which would mean no more earth created in six days. Hence the Mars landings are also faked.

Overheal

Edward Snowden left the NSA having had priviledged/administrative access to everything on the NSA's servers - regardless of position or rank, he could see everything because his job required him to. This went on for several years actually. In the 2 years he's been on the run, he hasn't revealed anything about such CTs. If such a conspiracy existed then either it still represents a risk to national security (snowden has mentioned he knows a lot more than he is revealing, names of operatives, operations, etc because of risk to the life of others and national security) or, the NSA has no knowledge of it - which given their data acquisition capabilities, seems unlikely.

ancapailldorcha

I'm quite happy to accept the landings as fact. It's a fairly odd thing for the US government to spend resources faking and then cleaning up.

ScumLord

Plus they brought back moon rock which they handed out as gifts to other nations, we even got a bit. It would probably be pretty straightforward for any nation that got a bit of moon rock to show that the rock definitely wasn't from the moon. Plenty moon rocks got stolen and put into private collectors hands. It wouldn't surprise me if the deniers had gotten a bit and proved themselves wrong by now. Of course there are plenty of these people making good money off the ejits that buy into their stories. It really wouldn't surprise me to find out most the people pushing these theories now full well they're bunkum and keep the thing going for profit.

Reg'stoy

Yeah totally agree with you ScumLord; profit.

The same reason according to the latest infinite monkey cage podcast that young Earth creationist totally ignore the overwhelming evidence that the planet is older than 6000 thousand years. They also mentioned that there is a creation museum in the States and they have a model of a dinosaur with a saddle beside models of humans

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AoDkVYgs0h0

Seeing as it is the Conspiracy Theory forum and considering there would be a time delay from say a manned Mars mission; with today's technology, how easy would it be to fake the actual landing seeing as it would be one way with no one to parade in front of the press on their return.

degrassinoel

Capricorn 1 was a great film, and this theory is older than the film - i believe NASA landed men on the moon.

Have to say though, some of the theories do have some valid points, specifically on lighting and reflections on some of the stills taken from the moon's surface. Plus NASA don't always give the whole truth and nothing but the truth, which is understandable also.

It's a shame the way this theory has to show up on the anniversary of what should be celebrated as a fete of massive human endeavor.

Consider that foundation technology behind the Saturn 5 rocket was effectively formed throughout world war 2 by nazi Germany in Peenemunde - the spoils of war (operation paperclip and it's Soviet counterpart) afforded two great nations the ability to leave our planet albeit with a small crew, both space agencies have had massive failures and spectacular losses in both assets and lives - to dismiss the moon landings as fake, flies in the face of all of those people since the time the first V1 rocket flew against a target to the space shuttle Challenger in 2003 who've lost and given their lives knowingly or not to the exploration of space.

ScumLord

That family guy video leads to some hebe jebe crazy. It's funny how often god comes up in these videos. They're attempts at using science to disprove science is downright laughable.

Bigus

It was said quieter wisely on boards before , " if a U.S. president can't even cover up a BJ from an intern in a blue dress( involving only 2 parties) how the hell could any conspiracy work" ?

As a general observation CT s seem to be overwhelmingly to do with USA and its government.

Myth busters did a good job on proving it very hard to re create the moon footage with gravity.

ScumLord

Bigus wrote: »

As a general observation CT s seem to be overwhelmingly to do with USA and its government.

All these conspiracy theories are basically coming out of westboro baptist church type loonies. Just about every conspiracy theory video either ends up descending into a Christian rapture fantasy where the devil is coming to take over the world or is so loaded with Christian viewpoints and wording that it's very clear what the message is.

The point of all these conspiracy theories is to discredit scientific progress. They want to to get people with a belief in god to turn away from what scientists are saying and promote their own minority Christian viewpoint and it's alarming how successful they are with such barmey theories. They've seen how scientific progress in things like medicine is basically taking away peoples dependence on god.

There's a picture on facebook at the moment of a car crash scene with paramedics on the scene with the tag "look closely" and someones photoshopped angels into it standing over the paramedics. As if the angels are the real heroes, not the paramedics that showed up in a helicopter. It's not like if the angels were there and the paramedics weren't that the people in the crash would survive.

weisses

Could it be they actually went to the Moon but to make it look better they shot some footage on earth ? ... Just thinking out loud

pueblo

Overheal wrote: »

Edward Snowden left the NSA having had priviledged/administrative access to everything on the NSA's servers - regardless of position or rank, he could see everything because his job required him to. This went on for several years actually. In the 2 years he's been on the run, he hasn't revealed anything about such CTs. If such a conspiracy existed then either it still represents a risk to national security (snowden has mentioned he knows a lot more than he is revealing, names of operatives, operations, etc because of risk to the life of others and national security) or, the NSA has no knowledge of it - which given their data acquisition capabilities, seems unlikely.

Ah yes...ex CIA officer Ed Snowden....I know I would certainly trust whatever he told me without question...:rolleyes:

pueblo

ScumLord wrote: »

All these conspiracy theories are basically coming out of westboro baptist church type loonies. Just about every conspiracy theory video either ends up descending into a Christian rapture fantasy where the devil is coming to take over the world or is so loaded with Christian viewpoints and wording that it's very clear what the message is.

The point of all these conspiracy theories is to discredit scientific progress. They want to to get people with a belief in god to turn away from what scientists are saying and promote their own minority Christian viewpoint and it's alarming how successful they are with such barmey theories. They've seen how scientific progress in things like medicine is basically taking away peoples dependence on god.

There's a picture on facebook at the moment of a car crash scene with paramedics on the scene with the tag "look closely" and someones photoshopped angels into it standing over the paramedics. As if the angels are the real heroes, not the paramedics that showed up in a helicopter. It's not like if the angels were there and the paramedics weren't that the people in the crash would survive.

Ironic you see it like that when in fact the 'new religion', infallible and full of dogma, is Science..

Science: the religion that must not be questioned

"The problem is that we (not the royal we, but the great unwashed lay public who won't know the difference between an eppendorf tube and an entrenching tool) are told, very often, and by people who ought to know better, that science is a one-way street of ever-advancing progress, a zero-sum game in which facts are accumulated and ignorance dispelled. In reality, the more we discover, the more we realise we don't know. Science is not so much about knowledge as doubt."

http://www.theguardian.com/science/occams-corner/2013/sep/19/science-religion-not-be-questioned

SpaceTime

I'm pretty sure the lunar landings were observable by telescope by amateur astronomers.

It's not that hard to prove they happened.

Also the soviets were highly motivated and equipped to show up any scams !! You can be damn sure they were watching very closely with telescopes and other instruments.

NomadicGray

SpaceTime wrote: »

I'm pretty sure the lunar landings were observable by telescope by amateur astronomers.

No, not true.

Landings still happened though, but you'd need one hell of a telescope to see it from here. I think they left behind a mirror for nasa to bounce a laser off though

SpaceTime

NomadicGray wrote: »

No, not true.

Landings still happened though, but you'd need one hell of a telescope to see it from here. I think they left behind a mirror for nasa to bounce a laser off though

There were plenty of big telescopes around in that era!

SpaceTime

Seems they were absolutely observed by radio telescope with more than a few nations picking up the signals from the crew.

pueblo

SpaceTime wrote: »

Seems they were absolutely observed by radio telescope with more than a few nations picking up the signals from the crew.

Link?

Guy:Incognito

NomadicGray wrote: »

I think they left behind a mirror for nasa to bounce a laser off though

CCTV footage from NASA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-e5CtbbZL-k

BBDBB

I tend to agree with the prevailing view that they weren't faked. However to answer the original question there are a few factors that will mean that there will always be some who will insist it was faked
1) as time passes events become blurred as the facts get short cutted
2) CTs are self perpetuating as those motivated to disprove something present the evidence in a manner that supports their theory
3) if social media & message boards has taught me anything it's that you could swear on a stack of bibles, take lie detector tests and hand someone a bit of moon rock and there are folk who would still say it was faked. It's just the way people are

degrassinoel

ScumLord wrote: »

All these conspiracy theories are basically coming out of westboro baptist church type loonies.

That's not fair really, granted there are some headers that dream up these theories, but ye cant make a sweeping statement like that about every Ctheorist.

Just about every conspiracy theory video either ends up descending into a Christian rapture fantasy where the devil is coming to take over the world or is so loaded with Christian viewpoints and wording that it's very clear what the message is.

The point of all these conspiracy theories is to discredit scientific progress. They want to to get people with a belief in god to turn away from what scientists are saying and promote their own minority Christian viewpoint and it's alarming how successful they are with such barmey theories. They've seen how scientific progress in things like medicine is basically taking away peoples dependence on god.

Yeah i've noticed those ones too, they're generally rubbish and at best clutching at straws or riding on the backs of other theories that have more weight. Aliens are demons is a common one.. very meh, fairies are elves..

There's a picture on facebook at the moment of a car crash scene with paramedics on the scene with the tag "look closely" and someones photoshopped angels into it standing over the paramedics. As if the angels are the real heroes, not the paramedics that showed up in a helicopter. It's not like if the angels were there and the paramedics weren't that the people in the crash would survive.

clickbait - cant stand ****e like that and FB is rife with it

Dohnjoe

pueblo wrote: »

Ironic you see it like that when in fact the 'new religion', infallible and full of dogma, is Science..

Science: the religion that must not be questioned

I would have thought scientific methods and theories have always been questioned - that's pretty much the point of it. No one stood up one day and said "plate tectonics!" and it was somehow infallible from that point on. It was just another theory, among many, and in fact was largely ignored and dismissed early on. It's only when a lot of measurement, tests, experimentation, consensus, peer review and so on eliminated the other theories, did it rise to become the strongest theory.

Most popular conspiracy theories are the complete opposite of this, starting with the belief in the conspiracy and working backwards from there. Questioning to suit an agenda, rather than seek the truth.

pueblo

Dohnjoe wrote: »

No one stood up one day and said "plate tectonics!" and it was somehow infallible from that point on. It was just another theory, among many, and in fact was largely ignored and dismissed early on.

And so many conspiracy theories are just that, 'theories among many (others)'until proven or disproven.

Most popular conspiracy theories are the complete opposite of this, starting with the belief in the conspiracy and working backwards from there. Questioning to suit an agenda, rather than seek the truth.

Most conspiracy theories are not the opposite of this as you state, they start with something that does not fit, something that does not add up in the official narrative and work forwards from there.

In this regard conspiracy theorists are more scientific than the general population as they question what they are told as opposed to just blindly accepting the official line verbatim.

SpaceTime

When you throw hundreds of billions of R&D and the entire U.S. Military-industrial complex, top scientists and also get serious public support you can achieve almost anything.

What's happened since then is space tech has stagnated. Commercial companies are really only interested in satellites and without the space race prerogative, there's no motivation to fund it like that.

NASA isn't very well funded anymore and ESA in Europe really scrapes around for crumbs while the USSR no longer exists and you're really only looking at the legacy of a huge space programme.

So we're stuck to the odd probe mission and a far more academically driven agenda for space exploration.

Manned missions are also incredibly risky. There was every possibility they could have been totally disastrous.

That's why we're very much less likely to see anything like the lunar landings for a long time.

We have the technology and far better materials and vastly better communications, computers and electronics - we don't have the motivation to get the finances & resources together to do it though.

Dohnjoe

pueblo wrote: »

And so many conspiracy theories are just that, 'theories among many (others)'until proven or disproven.

Well in name only. I wouldn't say the theory of plate tectonics is on the same level as the theory of Bigfoot, although I am sure some would

Most conspiracy theories are not the opposite of this as you state, they start with something that does not fit, something that does not add up in the official narrative and work forwards from there.

There are always discrepancies that don't "add up" in any large event (e.g a terrorist attack), conflicting early news reports, witnesses giving differing accounts, grieving relatives acting "strange", coincidences, gaps in information, etc.

Someone who has, let's say, conspiratorial beliefs will naturally gravitate towards these to discredit the accepted version of events and coincidentally replace with their own vague personal conspiracy narrative

It's a pretty simple technique, personally I could highlight dozens of holes and discrepancies regarding the Boston Bombing. However I, nor it seems any of the thousands of conspiracy theorists have yet to put forward a single solid alternative theory with suspects/dates/times that stands up to even the most basic scrutiny

Within science it's the equivalent of those who attack the theory of evolution only to promote their theory that the world is 6,000 years old and created by a supernatural being

ScumLord

degrassinoel wrote: »

That's not fair really, granted there are some headers that dream up these theories, but ye cant make a sweeping statement like that about every Ctheorist.

Probably, but there seems to be a growing list of "conspiracies" that focus on attacking science and even law and order. There's certainly an active Christian movement that's attempting to discredit science and government by attacking some of our greatest achievements like vaccines and space travel. Americans are experts at exporting their culture so this has spread, but I find it bizarre when people from around the world just buy into this propaganda even though from outside the US it is even more obvious that the theories are mostly nonsense.

The Christians have to be stopped, or they'll have us banging rocks together to light a fire within the decade!! :pac:

degrassinoel

I dunno now, ye probably wont be the last person in the world to say that

If there's a religious agenda to a theory i tend to become disinterested as it's almost guaranteed to be dull read, unless it's about the vatican's statement on alien life, which was very interesting reading

Just as there is a multiplicity of creatures on earth, there can be other beings, even intelligent, created by God. This is not in contrast with our faith because we can’t put limits on God’s creative freedom… “Why can’t we speak of a ‘brother extraterrestrial’? It would still be part of creation…

source

Reasonably sure that science has religion on the ropes these days, and that statement is an embrace of both science and religion which isnt a bad thing imo.

pueblo

ScumLord wrote: »

The Christians have to be stopped, or they'll have us banging rocks together to light a fire within the decade!! :pac:

Em let's see....so you are saying 'the Christians' will be the cause of some apocalyptic disaster that will destroy the world? :rolleyes:

Please do explain how that would play out?

If we ever get to a serious SHTF scenario is it not much more likely to be from the use of nuclear weapons (thanks science)? or perhaps from some screwed up accident with the Large Hadron Collider (thanks science)?? or from extreme climate change as a result of pollutants in the atmosphere (thanks science)?

It seems you have your own personal axe to grind with 'the Christians', which is fine except you sound just as deluded (if not more so) as the very conspiracy theorists you deride when you claim that 'the Christians' will somehow cause the downfall of humanity!

ScumLord

pueblo wrote: »

Em let's see....so you are saying 'the Christians' will be the cause of some apocalyptic disaster that will destroy the world? :rolleyes:

That's not what I'm saying at all. I phrased it badly too, I should have said "if the Christians get their way".. This little guy :pac: at the end was to highlight I was joking.

The fundamentalist Christians in the US, the likes of the WBC would have us abandon scientific and political progress to implement something along the lines of a Christian version of sharia law. I don't think they'll ever achieve this but I think there are many people around the world that don't realise that these anti science theories are coming out of religious fear mongering.

pueblo

This seems a little strange...

NASA hoax ISS Actornaut Chris Cassidy accidentally admits they are filming in the USA

King Mob

pueblo wrote: »

This seems a little strange...

NASA hoax ISS Actornaut Chris Cassidy accidentally admits they are filming in the USA

What's strange about it? An astronaut having a brain fart during an interview?

Is the more reasonable and likely explanation that NASA is faking all space exploration (and covering up any major evidence for this) and then going to the effort of setting up a fake interview (which the editor of the video claims no one will watch) complete with special effects to fake the astronauts hair in zero g, but then let such a major screw up still go out?

pueblo

King Mob wrote: »

What's strange about it? An astronaut having a brain fart during an interview?

Is the more reasonable and likely explanation that NASA is faking all space exploration (and covering up any major evidence for this) and then going to the effort of setting up a fake interview (which the editor of the video claims no one will watch) complete with special effects to fake the astronauts hair in zero g, but then let such a major screw up still go out?

I don't know this, but I am presuming this was a live 'satellite' link up interview and as such they didn't have the chance to edit out his blunder.