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Sanctity of Life (Abortion Megathread)
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eh you need to dig more into this scandal. Its not a cheap commodity. Some of the middle men brokers who exist with scant regulation charge $24,000 for some high grade cells.
That's amazing, but since it's not PP doing that then it's irrelevant.
Show evidence for your claims or you're just flapping in the wind.0 -
How is that different to any company (take your pick..) re-wording its End User Privacy Policy to reflect concerns about it? Eg. Microsoft, PayPal, Google, Apple, etc. "This new feature will be used to spy on us!" "No that was not the intent at all - to ease your concerns, we're cleaning up our policy framework" Just because Apple's privacy policy doesn't explicitly say "The Hey-Siri feature is not microphoning you while you sleep to make sure you aren't a terrorist" doesn't mean "well it doesn't say we can't, so we are"I am afraid you are outright wrong. Planned Parenthood have been caught redhanded. Their official line is that the money is only to cover costs but they still felt the need to publicly come out and change their official policy on this issue. Of course they spend millions on getting Democrats into the House of Representatives and the Senate so there isn't political will to establish transparency
In the CMP videos PP admitted nothing other than at most, that they did not have an explicitly worded policy against it, but that it was the defacto position of Planned Parenthood to only cover cost of operating the donation program. In relation to the public criticism, the push for more firm language in policy brought about that clarification to the point where no money whatsoever would be collected to avoid any criticism of loopholes/ambiguity. Nothing sinister there.0 -
How is that different to any company (take your pick..) re-wording its End User Privacy Policy to reflect concerns about it? Eg. Microsoft, PayPal, Google, Apple, etc. "This new feature will be used to spy on us!" "No that was not the intent at all - to ease your concerns, we're cleaning up our policy framework" Just because Apple's privacy policy doesn't explicitly say "The Hey-Siri feature is not microphoning you while you sleep to make sure you aren't a terrorist" doesn't mean "well it doesn't say we can't, so we are"
In the CMP videos PP admitted nothing other than at most, that they did not have an explicitly worded policy against it, but that it was the defacto position of Planned Parenthood to only cover cost of operating the donation program. In relation to the public criticism, the push for more firm language in policy brought about that clarification to the point where no money whatsoever would be collected to avoid any criticism of loopholes/ambiguity. Nothing sinister there.
You are completely ignoring the fact that the idea that money exchanged is only costs is notional in this case and doesn't make it ethical in the eyes of many. A supermarket may offer a product at a low margin or a loss but that doesn't the supermarket is donating the item to the customer. The fact their polices existed with no oversight rubs salt into the wound, but its unsurprising as PP has resisted regulation to the point of getting young mothers killed. But all this is only a side point, the real issue is a freedom of speech one. Some of tried to blame the Colorado shootings on this investigation. Some here have argued arguments identical to mine amount to hate speech and are possibly illegal in some jurisdictions and this is a clearly false claim.0 -
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You are completely ignoring the fact that the idea that money exchanged is only costs is notional in this case and doesn't make it ethical in the eyes of many. A supermarket may offer a product at a low margin or a loss but that doesn't the supermarket is donating the item to the customer. The fact their polices existed with no oversight rubs salt into the wound, but its unsurprising as PP has resisted regulation to the point of getting young mothers killed. But all this is only a side point, the real issue is a freedom of speech one. Some of tried to blame the Colorado shootings on this investigation. Some here have argued arguments identical to mine amount to hate speech and are possibly illegal in some jurisdictions and this is a clearly false claim.
Why isnt there investigations into everyone who receives money for costs of handling tissue? Nobody cares about that, they only care about shutting down planned parenthood.
If groups are going to make PP look like they are committing one of the biggest human rights violations of our time you cant be surprised when people turn to violence to stop it after attempts to end them through other means fails.0 -
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You are completely ignoring the fact that the idea that money exchanged is only costs is notional in this case and doesn't make it ethical in the eyes of many. A supermarket may offer a product at a low margin or a loss but that doesn't the supermarket is donating the item to the customer. The fact their polices existed with no oversight rubs salt into the wound, but its unsurprising as PP has resisted regulation to the point of getting young mothers killed. But all this is only a side point, the real issue is a freedom of speech one. Some of tried to blame the Colorado shootings on this investigation. Some here have argued arguments identical to mine amount to hate speech and are possibly illegal in some jurisdictions and this is a clearly false claim.
What can't be denied is that Robert Dear was by the accounts of his neighbors a mentally unwell person. "that conversations with him were “not very cognitive,” by the recount of others." I do not want to jump to the conclusion that a rational-thinking person, even one who felt that abortion was deeply immoral, would carry out such an act. But neither will I try to label him a Democrat or a Transexual for equally-irrational political reasons.
Planned Parenthood has plenty of oversight, and it gets audited regularly with regard to how its funds are used. If they were seeing a profit from selling baby parts, there would have been no need for undercover, heavily edited videos, it would have been on paper. As for a grocery store, they are giving away the item if it is below their cost. If the grocery store sold everything below cost, they would go out of business and at-cost is where a lot of charities operate.
I did a search earlier and couldn't readily find anything politically, that would have been a substantial direct/indirect causation for this kind of attack. This was the result, more than likely, of selective hearing and a lot of introverted and warped thinking on the subject. That said, Pro-Life conservatives should be quick to condemn these attacks and should have been keen to remind activists that violence was never an answer.
I disagree that the compensation was inherently immoral, it has helped to propagate medical research.The three types of cells cultured from those fetal tissues - known to scientists as HEK293, WI-38 and MRC-5 - have revolutionized the prevention and treatment of human disease.
They are used to create the vaccines we inoculate our children with to prevent rubella, mumps, measles, chicken pox, polio, rabies and hepatitis.
Before these vaccines, just one rubella epidemic killed 2,100 newborns, caused 30,000 birth defects and triggered miscarriages in 6,250 women. Polio infected 57,000 and killed 3,000 every year.
HEK293 cells have been used to synthesize human proteins such as insulin and blood-clotting factors. They allow researchers to coax adult human stem cells into becoming nerve, heart, liver and pancreatic cells. Most recently, HEK293 cells have been used to produce gene-delivery viruses that could help generate the cells that many believe hold the cures to Parkinson's, Lou Gehrig's and Huntington's disease - diseases for which there are no cures and very little offered in the way of treatment. There is also great hope to develop treatments for diseases that affect millions of people, such as cardiovascular disease and diabetes.
The lack of the cost-compensation won't impact the number of abortions, it will only impact what happens with the tissue after the fact, which will now likely go to further waste.“Every child who’s been spared the risks and misery of chickenpox, rubella, or polio can thank the Nobel Prize recipients and other scientists who used such tissue in research yielding the vaccines that protect us (and give even the unvaccinated the benefit of herd immunity).
Do you have a source for your claim in bold?
Indeed, one of the CMP videos made it out that one of the partners that Planned Parenthood works with would be probably more guilty than Planned Parenthood of profiting off of tissue transportation. Yet nobody has even brought their name up in the media, or called for an investigation.The Randy Riverbeast wrote:Why isnt there investigations into everyone who receives money for costs of handling tissue? Nobody cares about that, they only care about shutting down planned parenthood.0 -
Lest we think that lightning wouldn't strike twice, however. Many acts of violence against PP clinics are not designed to kill (though some are and have done), but to terrorize, destroy property, and disrupt the function of the clinics in a manner which does not 'contradict' Pro-Life ideology...
http://mic.com/articles/129329/a-former-planned-parenthood-employee-tweeted-this-list-of-acts-of-terrorism-she-survived?utm_source=policymicFB&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=WHFacebook&utm_content=inf_11_285_2&tse_id=INF_ca7fdb6a054741fa95c9c1c869c66654#.bkSux9DghI worked at a #PlannedParenthood clinic in Kansas for 3 years. My coworkers & I were subjected to the following acts of terrorism:
Gasoline was poured under our back door & ignited 4 times. Twice while the clinic was occupied, causing patients to be evacuated.
Butyric acid (used as a stink bomb) was poured under our doors & into ventilation system so many times I lost count. Clinic evacuated.
2 cherry bombs were left on our doorstep after hours, causing damage & clinic closure. Imagine what it's like going to work after that.
We received hundreds of phone calls, threatening to torch our clinic & to kill the "murdering whores" who worked there.
3 times someone drove by at night & shot out our windows. Picketers stood on the sidewalk & harassed employees as we swept up broken glass.
Our clinic didn't perform abortions. We did well woman exams, pregnancy tests, dispensed birth control, & treated STIs.
Our clinic offered free & low cost services in a low income neighborhood, but every day the "pro-life" movement tried to frighten us.
The goal was to make us afraid to come to work, to make us quit, to make us close the clinic. That's terrorism. That's how terrorism works.
Anyone who approves of harassing clinics is giving support to terrorism. #StandWithPP
At the same time, I volunteered at Dr. George Tiller's abortion clinic. In 1993 he was shot by a "pro-lifer." He came to work the next day.
Dr. Tiller kept coming to work after he was shot, because he was a caring man who knew how important his work was.
In 2009, Dr. Tiller was murdered in his own church, again by a "pro-lifer." The goal was to scare other doctors who perform abortions.
Abortions are still provided in Dr. Tiller's old clinic, because that's how you respond to terrorism. We can't let them win.
The terrorism continues at clinics all across America.
Another Twitter user responded with 100 citations of different violent attacks against Planned Parenthood clinics
http://www.vox.com/2015/11/29/9815138/clinic-attacks-common-twitter
obviously, it goes on, and each tweet includes a linked source.2/1977: Someone enters Cleveland's Concerned Women Clinic, throws gas on a receptionist, & sets a fire.
12/25/84: All 3 Pensacola clinics blown up as "birthday gift to Jesus" by June bombers + their wife/GF.
11/19/84: AOG's Thomas Spinks blows up 2 MD clinics, incl the 1 his pal Michael Bray blockaded on 11/17
8/1/15: New Orleans, LA Planned Parenthood construction site hit with arson attack
10/21/15: Vandal attacks Claremont, NH Planned Parenthood clinic with a hatchet
9/30/15: Thousand Oaks, CA Planned Parenthood clinic hit with arson attack, 6 weeks after vandalism
I do recall the death of Dr. Tiller, and reading articles before his death about walking past angry mobs and picket lines and needing a security detail to keep the clinic open. The man was something of a hero.0 -
More for readability's sake:
Incident 101 on the list is a current event.11/24/15: Repeat clinic vandal at Louisville clinic, 1 day after jail release on condition he stay away
9/28/15: Steven Dummer opens fire inside Rockford, IL Crusader Clinic before holing up inside for hours
9/28/15: Pullman, WA Planned Parenthood clinic hit with arson attack
3/4/14:Zachary Klundt destroys MT's All Families Healthcare after secret CPC purchase fails to close it
10/3/13: Jedediah Stout tries twice to burn a PP; later found to have also tried twice to burn a mosque
4/11/13: Benjamin Curell attacks a Bloomington, IN Planned Parenthood clinic with an ax.
4/4/13: Defensive Action Stmt signer Paul Leach video says killing of KS providers would be a blessing.
4/1/12: Francis Gerald Grady sets fire at Wisconsin PP. He said he heard voices of children in his head
3/4/12: First in unsolved series of escalating break-ins/arsons against ATL docs opposed to GA 20wk ban
1/1/12: Pensacola American Family Planning clinic destroyed via Molotov cocktail by Bobby Joe Rogers
10/14/11: Michael Hirsh—lawyer for doctor-killer Paul Hill—posts "comedy" blog "Who Will We Kill Next?" http://www.mrhirsh.com/hello-world/
7/26/11: Molotov cocktail thrown into McKinney, TX, Planned Parenthood, which doesn't even do abortions
5/26/11: Ralph Lang travels to Madison to kill providers but is arrested when his gun goes off at hotel
1/15/11: Angel Dillard sends Dr Mila Means in KS a letter—"maybe today is the day someone" carbombs her
11/24/10: Rep Tom Hackbarth, R-MN, detained in St Paul PP parking lot, with a gun & looking for his GF
9/7/10:Justin Carl Moose arrested in NC clinic bomb plot after vocal FB advocacy of antichoice violence
9/2/10: Donny Eugene Mower throws Molotov cocktail in Madera, CA PP after also vandalizing local mosque
4/3/10: Erlyndon Lo attempts to file a restraining order on cops, to let him kill Dallas clinic staff
11/2/09: AOG pal Regina Dinwiddie uses eBay to benefit Roeder & "glorify the end of a very violent man"
10/31/09: Man standing with protesters at Greensboro NC clinic arrested for carrying a gun there.
6/2009: Days after Dr Tiller's murder, Dr Carhart's daughter gets fake call saying her parents dead too
5/31/09: Scott Roeder shoots Dr. George Tiller dead at church; at trial insists "justifiable homicide"
5/30/09:Scott Roeder seen glueing locks at Kansas City clinic 1 day before killing Dr Tiller in Wichita
1/22/09: Man drives SUV into St. Paul PP on Roe v Wade anniversary because "Jesus told me to do it"
12/6/07: Two men angry that one's ex-GF planned an abortion at an ABQ clinic break in & set fire to it.
11/8/07:Judge orders Allentown PA clinic stalker John Dunkle to stop posting calls for provider murders
4/25/07: Failed Austin clinic bomber—"I never meant for anyone except for the abortionists to get hurt"
9/11/06: Man attempts suicide carbombing at Davenport IA clinic, after casing several clinics for weeks
6/8/06: Greenbelt MD man arrested for clinic bomb plot—explosion in friend's home as cops try to disarm
7/4/05: Presidential Women's Center of West Palm Beach, FL damaged in 2nd arson at the site in 2 months
7/2/04: WomanCare Center of Lake Worth, FL, is destroyed in a still-unsolved arson
8/21/03: A Brooklyn couple is sentenced to 29 months for harboring anti-abortion sniper James Kopp
2/13/03: KKK leader David Wayne Hull arrested for buying hand grenades meant for clinics.
5/16/02: Court orders removal of "true threat" Nuremburg Files provider hitlist site. It's STILL online
12/5/01: Clayton Waagner, at Kinko's to check AOG website, arrested for mass anthrax threats to clinics
2/24/01: Clinics on alert after Clayton Waagner jail escape—said killing providers was mission from god
9/30/00: Catholic priest John Earl smashes his car into a Rockford IL clinic then attacks it with an ax
5/1/99: Longtime clinic blockader and arsonist Ricky Lee McDonald sets fire to Albuquerque, NM PP
3/13/99: "Very large device" partly detonates at Asheville Femcare clinic; cops suspect Rudolph
10/23/98:Dr Barnett Slepian killed at home by sniper James Kopp, suspected in 4 similar attacks on docs
5/21/98: Five Miami clinics hit with butyric acid attacks; 3 women suffered minor injuries
5/7/98: John Brockhoeft arrested on way to P'cola Ladies Center w/ bomb, later admits OH clinic attacks
1/29/98: Ofc Robert Sanderson killed, nurse Emily Lyons maimed, in Eric Rudolph bombing of B'ham clinic
10/28/97: Shots are fired into the home of Dr. David Gandell in Rochester NY.
4/2/97: John Yankowski arrested for setting fire to the Mountain Country Women's Clinic in Bozeman, MT.
3/17/97: Man drives truck loaded w/ propane/gas into a CA clinic then sets fire when it doesn't explode
1/16/97: Eric Robert Rudolph sets 2 bombs at ATL clinic, 2nd clearly intended for federal investigators
12/18/96: Dr Calvin Jackson stabbed 15x in New Orleans—attacker captured in Baton Rouge seeking 2nd doc
7/12/96: 4 members of an anti-govt, anti-bank, white-separatist militia bomb Spokane Planned Parenthood
4/16/96: Antigovt militia member Scott Roeder pulled over in Topeka; police find bomb components in car
11/11/95: 4 OK militia members arrested in bomb plot against clinics, welfare offices, gay bars, & SPLC
8/16/1995: In Waukegan, IL, Robert Cook is arrested for an elaborate plot to start an "abortion war"
12/31/94: In Norfolk VA, John Salvi fires 23 shots into Hillcrest Clinic. No injuries; he's captured.
12/30/94: In Brookline, MA, John Salvi shoots dead receptionists at 2 diff clinics, and 5 wounded.
12/28/94:Roy McMillan in MS says murdering providers, SCOTUS justices & Pres Clinton could be justified
7/29/94: Defensive Action Stmt author Paul Hill kills Dr John Bayard Britton & his escort in Pensacola.
5/1994:Defensive Action Stmt signer Matt Trewhella of Missionaries for the Preborn urges armed militias
8/21/93: Owner of 4 FL/AL clinics Dr George Patterson shot dead. Police claim no connection to his work
8/19/93: Shelley Shannon shoots Dr. Tiller in KS: "the most holy, most righteous thing I've ever done"
3/29/93: MT clinic lost to firebomb—MT Right To Life says they "clearly understand why such acts occur"
3/1993: P'cola protester Paul Hill pens Defensive Action Statement justifying prolife murder—34 signers
3/10/93: Pensacola clinic protester Michael Griffin shoots Dr. David Gunn in the first clinic murder.
11/1992: Fireman hurt in the last of ex-protester Shelley Shannon's yearlong arson & butyric acid spree
12/28/91: First known clinic shooting. Unknown man shot counselor & landlord at Springfield MO clinic.
9/6/91: Dr LeRoy Carhart's Nebraska farm set afire in 7 places, incl house & barn. 19 horses/pets died.
11/1/87: 1st Operation Rescue blockade, in Cherry Hill NJ. 200 arrests. Another big leap in escalation.
7/27/87: Cheryl Sullenger—now Op Rescue "Senior Policy Advisor"—and 8 pals try to bomb San Diego clinic
4/1986: Blockade near STL—107 arrests—some fought cops—inspired Randall Terry to start Operation Rescue
3/26/86: Pensacola clinic invasion by KKK creeper John Burt and "martyr" Joan Andrews; 2 staff injured.
12/2/85: 4 Portland, OR abortion clinics and birth control providers are mailed letter bombs.
5/18/85: Man uses WWII amphibious vehicle painted with cobra logo to ram Sacramento Planned Parenthood.
4/11/85:Mtg of Joe Scheidler's Pro-Life Action Network. Sign: "Welcome Prolife Activists—Have A Blast!"
3/4/85: Roe v Wade author Justice Blackmun—who'd received threats from AOG—shot at thru his home window
12/25/84: All 3 Pensacola clinics blown up as "birthday gift to Jesus" by June bombers + their wife/GF.
11/19/84: AOG's Thomas Spinks blows up 2 MD clinics, incl the 1 his pal Michael Bray blockaded on 11/17
11/17/84:"Nonviolent prolife" org coopted by Michael Bray shuts Wheaton MD clinic w/blockade—46 arrests
7/7/84: Army of God sets massive bomb at Annapolis PP, 3 days after similar bomb at NAF HQ malfunctions
6/25/84: 2 young men blow up the Pensacola Ladies Center after seeing The Silent Scream at church.
6/15/84: Catholic priest Edward Markey enters a Huntsville, AL clinic to trash it & injures 2 staffers.
5/1984: Army of God's Michael Bray joins Md. "non-violent pro-life" org to get info on clinics to bomb.
2/7/84: Army of God bombers set multiple pipe bombs at Norfolk VA Hillcrest Clinic & leave "AOG" sign.
1/14/84: The first-ever Army of God clinic bombing destroys the Reproductive Care Center of Dover, DE.
12/3/83: 1st of 3 arsons of Everett WA Feminist Women's Health Ctr by future child molester Curt Beseda
3/1983: 14 picketers led by ex-KKK John Burt are Pensacola's 1st abortion-related arrests—MANY more
8/12/82: Hope Clinic owner & wife kidnapped & held 8 days, w/a "ransom" demand that Reagan end abortion
2/15/79: Man enters a Hempstead NY Bill Baird clinic screaming he'd "cleanse Bill Baird's soul by fire"
2/1977: Someone enters Cleveland's Concerned Women Clinic, throws gas on a receptionist, & sets a fire
3/1976: Joseph Stockett commits the 1st reported abortion clinic arson at a Eugene, OR PP—not his last.
My next 100 tweets will be the citations they needed—from 4 decades of antichoice violence, near-misses, threats & incitements. #is100enough
My hashtag is also my question: If 100 examples won't convince you that antichoice violence is real, how many do you need? #is100enough
I included a sampling of arsons & firebombs in my list. They're threats, they're dangerous—& often a middle step in escalation. #is100enough
So miss me with derailing on how OMG THAT BOMB DIDN'T HURT ANYONE DOESN'T COUNT.
People wonder why I have an apprehensive view of religion.0 -
Almost 40 hrs and no reply from the Pro Life brigade.....as usual they will wait a couple of days thinking the rest of us have moved on and then come back and spout the same nonsense all over again while ignoring the last few posts..........
Or they will say there is nothing to comment on as they don't condone violence and the actions of others are nothing to do with them........
Tic Toc Tic Toc Tic Toc............0 -
Some background on the Colorado Springs shooter has emerged.Robert Louis Dear — the right-wing Christian terrorist who attacked a Planned Parenthood location in Colorado Springs — was a violent, woman-hating serial offender with a history of sexual assault and domestic violence. An ex-wife said in court documents that the 57-year-old believes that “as long as he’s saved” by Jesus Christ, “he can do whatever he pleases.”
http://www.rawstory.com/2015/12/revealed-planned-parenthood-killer-believed-christs-forgiveness-meant-he-could-get-away-with-anything/0 -
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Almost 40 hrs and no reply from the Pro Life brigade.....as usual they will wait a couple of days thinking the rest of us have moved on and then come back and spout the same nonsense all over again while ignoring the last few posts..........
Or they will say there is nothing to comment on as they don't condone violence and the actions of others are nothing to do with them........
Tic Toc Tic Toc Tic Toc............
Sorry to disappoint you by replying, but killing, whether that be abortionists or babies is breaking the cardinal rule of Christianity.0 -
La Fenetre wrote: »Sorry to disappoint you by replying, but killing, whether that be abortionists or babies is breaking the cardinal rule of Christianity.
Since when?0 -
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The attacks don't fit the larger Pro-Life movement, but that said there bears a certain responsibility when politicians for instance try to compare baby parts to car parts and misrepresent the CMP videos ('we have to keep it alive to harvest its brain' crap). That kind of rhetoric will cause a loony with no purpose in life to feel like they have a calling to go out and do something reprehensible. In this case Dean additionally thought that "Jesus' forgiveness" would permit him to carry out the attack and be absolved.
As much as you want these clinics to stop performing abortions, you really would want to be careful to also point out, emphatically, that violence to do it is never justifiable.0 -
La Fenetre wrote: »33 AD
How freakin odd eh.......all I had to do was google popes who have killed! Last I remember the pope was Gods representative here on earth.....not very Christisn eh!?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_Vatican_City0 -
Anyways I have a question for the anti choice gang here.....
Say a woman is pregnant. The doctors examine her and it turns out that the pregnancy is in trouble(for whatever reason)and if the pregnancy is allowed to continue then both mother and foetus will die. You have the opportunity to save one life now, who do you chose? The mother or the foetus!!
Now before you answer please refrain from answer such as we should do our best to save both, or we should let the pregnancy follow its natural course etc etc etc.
The questions, who's life do you save in the above instance. You can pick one and only one!!
Firstly allow me to answer, I would save the life of the pregnant woman because I don't see a foetus as a living person.
Now your turn......0 -
How freakin odd eh.......all I had to do was google popes who have killed! Last I remember the pope was Gods representative here on earth.....not very Christisn eh!?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_Vatican_City
Did you read what you posted ?
"Capital punishment in Vatican City was legal between 1929 and 1969, reserved for attempted assassination of the Pope, but has never been applied there.
The Lateran Treaty of 1929 copied from the contemporaneous Italian legal code (concerning attempted assassinations of the King of Italy), providing for capital punishment for anyone who attempted to assassinate the pope within Vatican City."
Capital punishment was also legal in Britain until 1964 and Northern Ireland until 1973
Are you conflating killing of abortionists and babies by members of the public with capital punishment ?0 -
Oh I dunno.........something something cardinal rule of Christianity or some such!!La Fenetre wrote: »Did you read what you posted ?
"Capital punishment in Vatican City was legal between 1929 and 1969, reserved for attempted assassination of the Pope, but has never been applied there.
The Lateran Treaty of 1929 copied from the contemporaneous Italian legal code (concerning attempted assassinations of the King of Italy), providing for capital punishment for anyone who attempted to assassinate the pope within Vatican City."
Capital punishment was also legal in Britain until 1964 and Northern Ireland until 1973
Are you conflating killing of abortionists and babies by members of the public with capital punishment ?0 -
Anyways I have a question for the anti choice gang here.....
Say a woman is pregnant. The doctors examine her and it turns out that the pregnancy is in trouble(for whatever reason)and if the pregnancy is allowed to continue then both mother and foetus will die. You have the opportunity to save one life now, who do you chose? The mother or the foetus!!
Now before you answer please refrain from answer such as we should do our best to save both, or we should let the pregnancy follow its natural course etc etc etc.
The questions, who's life do you save in the above instance. You can pick one and only one!!
Firstly allow me to answer, I would save the life of the pregnant woman because I don't see a foetus as a living person.
Now your turn......
I recall we've already covered this ground, and some of the re-reg's have said they would choose the mother in a given ultimatum situation if the alternative was the death of both. Not satisfied with that response?
half a century ago, never implemented in any degree.Oh I dunno.........something something cardinal rule of Christianity or some such!!0 -
I think the point, which is fairly valid, is if not killing was a cardinal rule since 33AD why was there an option to put someone to death? Not sure what relevance "half a century ago"is, the key period is post 33AD. Also, that it was never implemented isn't really relevant either. If not killing was a CARDINAL value, and was such for 2000 years then why was there an option for killing?half a century ago, never implemented in any degree.
MrP0 -
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I recall we've already covered this ground, and some of the re-reg's have said they would choose the mother in a given ultimatum situation if the alternative was the death of both. Not satisfied with that response?
I just wanted clarity as the anti choice posse are forever changing the goalposts. Still though they have yet to answer my other questions buts that's par for the course for them.........ignorance is bliss!!0 -
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No wonder the anti choice brigade don't want to allow us to vote on this...........it would be a whitewash!!0
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Dude.. When you say "the anti choice posse" it's a stone throw away from the <snip> comments I scroll past on Facebook: "DemoKKKrats" "Republitards" "lame stream media" etc. as in they're said to wind people up and for not much else.0
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Pro-Life, Anti-abortionists, something less divisive than Anti-choice; if you don't want to be belittled by a label don't belittle through a label yourself.0
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Pro-Life, Anti-abortionists, something less divisive than Anti-choice; if you don't want to be belittled by a label don't belittle through a label yourself.
But they are anti choice no?
According to the dictionary a posse is...
a group of people who have a common characteristic, occupation, or purpose
I think that sums them up perfectly....
What makes you think I feel belittled by a label, what label :rolleyes:0 -
But they are anti choice no?
According to the dictionary a posse is...
a group of people who have a common characteristic, occupation, or purpose
I think that sums them up perfectly....
What makes you think I feel belittled by a label, what label :rolleyes:
You'll be happy for the pro-life brigade/posse/gang (whichever shows up first) to refer to you as the pro-death camp, or the anti-life lobby?
The deliberate use of provocative terms to describe the opposite side of a discussion adds nothing more than snarkiness... it certainly does not lend any credibility to your position, quite the opposite.0 -
What does the forum make of this?
http://imgur.com/gallery/dnhHf9A
http://nypost.com/2015/12/02/woman-carries-baby-to-term-despite-knowing-child-would-die/0 -
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What does the forum make of this?
http://imgur.com/gallery/dnhHf9A
http://nypost.com/2015/12/02/woman-carries-baby-to-term-despite-knowing-child-would-die/
I think it's great that she was afforded that choice. Same way as if she had opted for an abortion.....0
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