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Sanctity of Life (Abortion Megathread)

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    #2492
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 51,738 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    La Fenetre wrote: »
    Well again, that depends on if the child is alive or dead. Were they poisoned and / or dismembered beforehand or did they die naturally ?

    Is there a reason you're avoiding answer the question?

    If the foetus is dead, then there's no illegality regarding removing the foetus from the womb.

    So, what is gained by denying an abortion only to make the woman deliver the child stillborn?

    If you can read this, you're too close!



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    #2493
    Kev W
    Registered Users Posts: 2,536 ✭✭✭Kev W


    Delirium wrote: »
    Is there a reason you're avoiding answer the question?

    If the foetus is dead, then there's no illegality regarding removing the foetus from the womb.

    So, what is gained by denying an abortion only to make the woman deliver the child stillborn?

    And smug sense of satisfaction that someone was needlessly made to suffer.


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    #2494
    La Fenetre
    Registered Users Posts: 736 ✭✭✭La Fenetre


    Delirium wrote: »
    Is there a reason you're avoiding answer the question?

    If the foetus is dead, then there's no illegality regarding removing the foetus from the womb.

    So, what is gained by denying an abortion only to make the woman deliver the child stillborn?

    Because you still haven't provided the details I asked for. Were they poisoned and / or dismembered beforehand or did they die naturally ?


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    #2495
    La Fenetre
    Registered Users Posts: 736 ✭✭✭La Fenetre


    Kev W wrote: »
    And smug sense of satisfaction that someone was needlessly made to suffer.

    Was the child dead beforehand ? If it was it didn't suffer, so your smugness would be premature.


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    #2496
    Kev W
    Registered Users Posts: 2,536 ✭✭✭Kev W


    La Fenetre wrote: »
    Because you still haven't provided the details I asked for. Were they poisoned and / or dismembered beforehand or did they die naturally ?

    Those details were provided in the post you're quoting.


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    #2497
    Kev W
    Registered Users Posts: 2,536 ✭✭✭Kev W


    La Fenetre wrote: »
    Was the child dead beforehand ? If it was it didn't suffer, so your smugness would be premature.

    I was referring to the suffering of the woman, which I'm not terribly surprised you had failed to consider.


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    #2498
    La Fenetre
    Registered Users Posts: 736 ✭✭✭La Fenetre


    Kev W wrote: »
    I was referring to the suffering of the woman, which I'm not terribly surprised you had failed to consider.

    I'm not the one refusing to consider both of them.


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    #2499
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 51,738 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    La Fenetre wrote: »
    Because you still haven't provided the details I asked for. Were they poisoned and / or dismembered beforehand or did they die naturally ?

    This is seriously beginning to look like you don't understand what an abortion is if you consider one option is to "die naturally".:confused:

    If you can read this, you're too close!



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    #2500
    La Fenetre
    Registered Users Posts: 736 ✭✭✭La Fenetre


    Delirium wrote: »
    This is seriously beginning to look like you don't understand what an abortion is if you consider one option is to "die naturally".:confused:

    I'm asking because I'm not sure you understand, so I'll ask again : Were they poisoned and / or dismembered beforehand or did they die naturally ?


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    #2501
    Kev W
    Registered Users Posts: 2,536 ✭✭✭Kev W


    La Fenetre wrote: »
    I'm not the one refusing to consider both of them.

    No, you're the one refusing to consider the woman. Also refusing to answer a direct question.


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    #2502
    La Fenetre
    Registered Users Posts: 736 ✭✭✭La Fenetre


    Kev W wrote: »
    No, you're the one refusing to consider the woman. Also refusing to answer a direct question.

    There are two lives involved and affected not one, you cannot ignore one of them, while claiming to respect someone's life.


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    #2503
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    La Fenetre wrote: »
    I'm asking because I'm not sure you understand, so I'll ask again : Were they poisoned and / or dismembered beforehand or did they die naturally ?

    Do you understand the question? You are being asked about a fatal abnormalities. There is no ' poisoning or dismemberment', the labour is induced, the baby is then allowed pass away. It is far more dignified than allowing everyone involved to wait and endure additional suffering.


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    #2504
    Kev W
    Registered Users Posts: 2,536 ✭✭✭Kev W


    La Fenetre wrote: »
    I'm asking because I'm not sure you understand, so I'll ask again : Were they poisoned and / or dismembered beforehand or did they die naturally ?

    Tell you what, since you obviously have a different answer depending on which it is, why not give us both? Then we can move on instead of all this tedious back and forth.


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    #2505
    Kev W
    Registered Users Posts: 2,536 ✭✭✭Kev W


    La Fenetre wrote: »
    There are two lives involved and affected not one, you cannot ignore one of them, while claiming to respect someone's life.

    And yet you wish to do exactly that.


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    #2506
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 51,738 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    La Fenetre wrote: »
    I'm asking because I'm not sure you understand, so I'll ask again : Were they poisoned and / or dismembered beforehand or did they die naturally ?

    this is getting silly.

    For the sake of moving this along, they didn't die naturally (i.e. they were aborted), are there any abortion methods you would allow?

    If you can read this, you're too close!



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    #2507
    La Fenetre
    Registered Users Posts: 736 ✭✭✭La Fenetre


    Delirium wrote: »

    For the sake of moving this along, they didn't die naturally (i.e. they were aborted), are there any abortion methods you would allow?

    I don't know, what methods of killing are ok in your view ?


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    #2508
    robdonn
    Registered Users Posts: 1,107 ✭✭✭robdonn


    La Fenetre wrote: »
    I don't know, what methods of killing are ok in your view ?

    Right, no more talking to the brick wall. This is beyond tedious.


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    #2509
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 51,738 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    La Fenetre wrote: »
    I don't know, what methods of killing are ok in your view ?

    Unbelievable, can't answer a simple question.

    One would think that not putting a woman through 5 weeks of additional anguish was a simple choice, but sadly that seems not to be the case :(

    If you can read this, you're too close!



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    #2510
    La Fenetre
    Registered Users Posts: 736 ✭✭✭La Fenetre


    Delirium wrote: »
    For the sake of moving this along, they didn't die naturally (i.e. they were aborted), are there any abortion methods you would allow?

    To which I answered I don't know, and asked what methods of killing are ok in your view ?

    To which you replied :
    Delirium wrote: »
    Unbelievable, can't answer a simple question.


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    #2511
    robp
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,934 ✭✭✭robp


    eviltwin wrote: »
    In cases of ffa there is no such procedures but don't let the truth get in the way of the usual emotional rubbish

    How exactly does abortion not involve dismemberment? If its just 'a ball of cells' why does it bother you? Pro abortion people are rarely comfortable with the grisly details of what abortion involves.


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    #2512
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 51,738 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    robp wrote: »
    How exactly does abortion not involve dismemberment? If its just 'a ball of cells' why does it bother you? Pro abortion people are rarely comfortable with the grisly details of what abortion involves.

    Two examples that don't involve dismemberment are the abortion pill and aspiration (which accounts for about 91% of abortions in UK for example). So dismemberment isn't involved in the majority of the abortions preformed there.

    If you can read this, you're too close!



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    #2513
    robp
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,934 ✭✭✭robp


    La Fenetre wrote: »
    To which I answered I don't know, and asked what methods of killing are ok in your view ?

    To which you replied :

    The really honest pro choice people will knowledge that abortion is killing but I have yet to hear an explanation on why killing is ok before birth. Even Column O'Gorman fudges this basic question. I'd love to get a solid answer on why are human rights are inapplicable before the child has passed through a vagina.


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    #2514
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    robp wrote: »
    How exactly does abortion not involve dismemberment? If its just 'a ball of cells' why does it bother you? Pro abortion people are rarely comfortable with the grisly details of what abortion involves.

    We were discussing fatal abnormalities. There is no dismemberment. Maybe ask the women in TFMR Ireland who actually experienced it and see how many of them gave birth to dismembered babies.


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    #2515
    robp
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,934 ✭✭✭robp


    eviltwin wrote: »
    We were discussing fatal abnormalities. There is no dismemberment. Maybe ask the women in TFMR Ireland who actually experienced it and see how many of them gave birth to dismembered babies.

    Abortion involves dismemberment, regardless of whether a healthy or sick baby is involved.


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    #2516
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 51,738 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    robp wrote: »
    Abortion involves dismemberment, regardless of whether a healthy or sick baby is involved.

    That's factually wrong as a blanket statement, as explained above, the type of abortion that may involve dismemberment is used for pregnancies at 13 weeks or later. That is the minority of abortions in most countries where it's legal.

    If you can read this, you're too close!



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    #2517
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    robp wrote: »
    Abortion involves dismemberment, regardless of whether a healthy or sick baby is involved.

    You know little about it. It does not involve dismemberment in the cases of ffa. If you would like to show your evidence to back up your claims please do.


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    #2518
    robp
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,934 ✭✭✭robp


    eviltwin wrote: »
    You know little about it. It does not involve dismemberment in the cases of ffa. If you would like to show your evidence to back up your claims please do.

    The method of abortion chosen depends on the preferences of the abortionist and how developed the baby is. The health status of the baby doesn't influence the choice. Its a ridiculous thing to argue over. You are making the assertion in the first place so you aught to provide evidence.


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    #2519
    Kev W
    Registered Users Posts: 2,536 ✭✭✭Kev W


    robp wrote: »
    The method of abortion chosen depends on the preferences of the abortionist and how developed the baby is. The health status of the baby doesn't influence the choice. Its a ridiculous thing to argue over. You are making the assertion in the first place so you aught to provide evidence.

    YOU made the assertion that abortion always involves dismemberment. YOU should provide evidence.


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    #2520
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 51,738 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    robp wrote: »
    The method of abortion chosen depends on the preferences of the abortionist and how developed the baby is. The health status of the baby doesn't influence the choice. Its a ridiculous thing to argue over. You are making the assertion in the first place so you aught to provide evidence.

    How does the abortion pill dismember a foetus?

    If you can read this, you're too close!



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    #2521
    robp
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,934 ✭✭✭robp


    Kev W wrote: »
    YOU made the assertion that abortion always involves dismemberment. YOU should provide evidence.

    Legal abortion regimes always involve dismemberment, not every procedure every regime. But why does matter if its just a ball of cells?


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