New Party: The Social Democrats.

Thomas_.

A new Party in Ireland has been launched and they call hemselves "Social Democrats".

I came across this article where I´ve noticed anything about them just recently.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/new-political-party-of-high-profile-tds-called-social-democrats-686567.html

Apparently, this Party has just three members (yet) and I wonder whether they will become some serious competitor to the Irish Labour Party.

http://www.thejournal.ie/social-democrats-2217319-Jul2015/

They already have also launched their own Website:

http://www.socialdemocrats.ie/

What do others think about them?

Loafing Oaf

You have to see developments like this in the context of a likely scenario after the next election where FG and Labour will be 12-15 seats short of an OM but there is no obvious alternative government. So they will be looking to put together some sort of alliance that will bring them up to 80 seats, and if you're a TD with real policy ideas, you're more likely to have influence on the government if you band together with 2 or 3 like-minded souls than if you're negotiating as a sole trader...

Bannasidhe

I am watching them with interest.
As someone who could be best described as a 'soft socialist' - I believe in small government which runs the services to maintain a society where every citizen is treated equally which protects all citizens which, humans being humans, requires the State to produce legislation to ensure they are protected - I find myself without a political party to vote for...

I admire much of the work done by the likes of Daly and Wallace when it comes to highlighting abuses in the system (e.g. penalty points) but, like the Socialist Party/AAA TDs, I find them a bit strident and preachy.

Sinn Fein - I have spent a long time having internal (talking to myself again) and external discussions as to why I have an aversion to Sinn Fein and whether this is based on genuine concerns or the result of a decades long campaign against them by the establishment. Two 'straws' have seriously dented the camel's back when it comes to SF - 1. the ink fiasco - they should have offered to pay for the ink not fall back in the same old what TDs are entitled to justifications so beloved of the other political parties. 2. The whole sexual abuse scandal - S.F. closed ranks and put party image first. I have had enough of the welfare of political parties being put first.

Independents - in the last G.E. the only independent I was seriously considering voting for was Diarmuid O Flynn... until it emerged he would vote against any attempt to legalise abortion. Although Diarmuid and I had a cordial exchange of emails, I felt that given his public anti-abortion statements I could not vote for him and he respected that.

FF/FG/LP can simply feck right off.
Renua - rewhoah?

As I can't vote for the SNP perhaps the Social Democrats is the place for me.

Thomas_.

Bannasidhe wrote: »

I am watching them with interest.
As someone who could be best described as a 'soft socialist' - I believe in small government which runs the services to maintain a society where every citizen is treated equally which protects all citizens which, humans being humans, requires the State to produce legislation to ensure they are protected - I find myself without a political party to vote for...

I admire much of the work done by the likes of Daly and Wallace when it comes to highlighting abuses in the system (e.g. penalty points) but, like the Socialist Party/AAA TDs, I find them a bit strident and preachy.

Sinn Fein - I have spent a long time having internal (talking to myself again) and external discussions as to why I have an aversion to Sinn Fein and whether this is based on genuine concerns or the result of a decades long campaign against them by the establishment. Two 'straws' have seriously dented the camel's back when it comes to SF - 1. the ink fiasco - they should have offered to pay for the ink not fall back in the same old what TDs are entitled to justifications so beloved of the other political parties. 2. The whole sexual abuse scandal - S.F. closed ranks and put party image first. I have had enough of the welfare of political parties being put first.

Independents - in the last G.E. the only independent I was seriously considering voting for was Diarmuid O Flynn... until it emerged he would vote against any attempt to legalise abortion. Although Diarmuid and I had a cordial exchange of emails, I felt that given his public anti-abortion statements I could not vote for him and he respected that.

FF/FG/LP can simply feck right off.
Renua - rewhoah?

As I can't vote for the SNP perhaps the Social Democrats is the place for me.

Thanks for that interesting post from you and your frank comments about what you think of SF.

Having read some parts on this Social Democrats website, I´m not so sure whether they really like to be left of the centre or more centre based. The outset of this party appears to me to be of less ideological basis but more pragmatic, putting the citizen in the focus to gain support and votes.

I´m not much familiar with the three TDs who founded that Party and so I can´t say anything about them. What strikes me is that just one of the three is a former Labour TD. It also seems to me that they like to build up an alternative to the parties of the establishment, maybe also drawing some voters and votes from those who either voted or are inclined to vote for SF.

I´ll be looking for the first and further reactions from the Labour Party on that new party because of the name they chose to give themselves and the Agenda they seek to give themselves. As this is a brand new party with just three members, there are plenty of chances to bring on some of ones own ideas to them and get involved with them. But if someone chooses to join them, it´ll be hard work to build it up and I rather doubt a Swift success, given the time left before the next GE in the Republic of Ireland which is, if I´m not wrong, next year. So those three TDs, if they don´t have the backings of their constituency, might lose their seats in the Dáil and it might be a long way until they get in again, depending on how this new party is developing.

I think that your last line re FF/FG/LAB sums it up and mirrors what many people expressed on internet forums in the past couple of years.

Thomas_.

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

You have to see developments like this in the context of a likely scenario after the next election where FG and Labour will be 12-15 seats short of an OM but there is no obvious alternative government. So they will be looking to put together some sort of alliance that will bring them up to 80 seats, and if you're a TD with real policy ideas, you're more likely to have influence on the government if you band together with 2 or 3 like-minded souls than if you're negotiating as a sole trader...

Yes, I wouldn´t reckon with this new Party gaining plenty of seats in the Dáil, but if those three would manage to get re-elected, that would be something, depending on the backing of their voters in their constituencies.

5rtytry56

Can't see their website yet. Where is it? Who are they again?

Kristopherus

Thomas_. wrote: »

Thanks for that interesting post from you and your frank comments about what you think of SF.

Having read some parts on this Social Democrats website, I´m not so sure whether they really like to be left of the centre or more centre based. The outset of this party appears to me to be of less ideological basis but more pragmatic, putting the citizen in the focus to gain support and votes.

I´m not much familiar with the three TDs who founded that Party and so I can´t say anything about them. What strikes me is that just one of the three is a former Labour TD. It also seems to me that they like to build up an alternative to the parties of the establishment, maybe also drawing some voters and votes from those who either voted or are inclined to vote for SF.

I´ll be looking for the first and further reactions from the Labour Party on that new party because of the name they chose to give themselves and the Agenda they seek to give themselves. As this is a brand new party with just three members, there are plenty of chances to bring on some of ones own ideas to them and get involved with them. But if someone chooses to join them, it´ll be hard work to build it up and I rather doubt a Swift success, given the time left before the next GE in the Republic of Ireland which is, if I´m not wrong, next year. So those three TDs, if they don´t have the backings of their constituency, might lose their seats in the Dáil and it might be a long way until they get in again, depending on how this new party is developing.

I think that your last line re FF/FG/LAB sums it up and mirrors what many people expressed on internet forums in the past couple of years.

Well the 3 Amigos have been extremely active as independents, and quite impressive, too. imo.. I would put them way ahead of Renua in terms of re-electability.

BaronVon

Catherine Murphy got my number 1 in every GE she's run in, and County Council before that. My only concern was that, as an independent, she never had any serious political clout in the Dail. That now changes.

I was always impressed by Stephen Donnelly, so I'm delighted Murphy is teaming up with him. Not so enamoured with Shortall. I imagine they will get a few other current TD's to join before the GE, hopefully someone like Michael McNamara will jump ship from Labour.

Murphy would have my number 1 anyway, but at least now I'll feel my vote will have a lot more potential to enact actual change!

I don't like Shortall due to her minimum alcohol pricing stance, but respect the other two. Donnelly should retain my vote

Thomas_.

5rtytry56 wrote: »

Can't see their website yet. Where is it? Who are they again?

I´ve given the link to their Website as the third one in my opening post, but to save you the bother, I´ll give it to you again:

http://www.socialdemocrats.ie/

edanto

I'm delighted to see it. Last time out, I canvassed for one of them (Donnelly), and since he just about got over the line on maybe the 30th count (by less than 150 votes), he's been a source of hope in the Dail. Hundreds of people have been asking him to start a party, so I'm glad they've taken the leap.

I think their Ideas page lays out exactly what they stand for. Left and Right are tired terms that are no longer useful. It's clear to see how they would do things differently if they are in government. And I hope they have some ideas about how not to get chewed up and spat out like the PDs, Greens & Labour.

That said, they probably don't want to be a small party, they probably want to be a large party. I genuinely trust them to be honest with us about what they can and can't do, and to make decisions in a way that represents their supporters.

With the party funding rules heavily biased in favour of the existing parties, the key to their success will have to be something like crowdfunding, thousands of small donations to build a fund. I'm sure the current lot will be doing everything possible in terms of mudslinging to shut down that funding.

touts

I like Donnelly and much of what he has talked about since he was elected but jesus he's getting his ass kicked by Pat Kenny at the moment because he is clearly not comfortable talking from the socialist waffle sheet Shorthall and Murphy handed him for interviews.

Thomas_.

edanto wrote: »

I'm delighted to see it. Last time out, I canvassed for one of them (Donnelly), and since he just about got over the line on maybe the 30th count (by less than 150 votes), he's been a source of hope in the Dail. Hundreds of people have been asking him to start a party, so I'm glad they've taken the leap.

I think their Ideas page lays out exactly what they stand for. Left and Right are tired terms that are no longer useful. It's clear to see how they would do things differently if they are in government. And I hope they have some ideas about how not to get chewed up and spat out like the PDs, Greens & Labour.

That said, they probably don't want to be a small party, they probably want to be a large party. I genuinely trust them to be honest with us about what they can and can't do, and to make decisions in a way that represents their supporters.

With the party funding rules heavily biased in favour of the existing parties, the key to their success will have to be something like crowdfunding, thousands of small donations to build a fund. I'm sure the current lot will be doing everything possible in terms of mudslinging to shut down that funding.

This is certainly what they will have to endure in the near future.

Zamboni

Stephen Donnelly is pretty much the most competent and articulate member of the Dail.

I'll certainly be keeping an eye on this party with an open mind.

zoobizoo

Donnelly is an economics graduate and has a Masters in Economics from Harvard (I think). Compare that to some of the others running in Wicklow... I put him number 1 based on his CV. I certainly wouldn't be voting SF locally as I like my politicians to have some level of education.

Shortall - I admire her because she was the only TD who wanted to tackle the alcohol issue head on without kotowing to the drinks industry. She looked at the research and based her plans on that research, particularly when it came to the marketing of booze and its effect on the habits of young people. Reilly and Varadkar have ignored the international and national research on this.

FreudianSlippers

I'm not sure I agree with their stance that Irish Water should be managed by the government. I'm agnostic on the idea of water charges if they can provide costings on how to pay for it without increasing taxes. In general, I'm interested in their tax policy I suppose.

How ominous, the inability of the party to make such a basic decision as to a leader.

If they can't even select a leader with conviction, I can't see them operating with any gumption in a coalition government.

Utterly indistinguishable from Labour in substance. The two parties will fuse together after most of the Labour Party is wiped out.

landofthetree

zoobizoo wrote: »

Donnelly is an economics graduate and has a Masters in Economics from Harvard (I think). Compare that to some of the others running in Wicklow... I put him number 1 based on his CV. I certainly wouldn't be voting SF locally as I like my politicians to have some level of education.

Shortall - I admire her because she was the only TD who wanted to tackle the alcohol issue head on without kotowing to the drinks industry. She looked at the research and based her plans on that research, particularly when it came to the marketing of booze and its effect on the habits of young people. Reilly and Varadkar have ignored the international and national research on this.

He is a mechanical engineering graduate from UCD. He has a masters' degree in Public Administration in International Development from Harvard.

landofthetree

I predict a 5 party coalition after the next election supported by indos!

FG/LAB/Renua/Greens/SD will be the 5 parties.

Cr4pSnip3r

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

How ominous, the inability of the party to make such a basic decision as to a leader.

If they can't even select a leader with conviction, I can't see them operating with any gumption in a coalition government.

Utterly indistinguishable from Labour in substance. The two parties will fuse together after most of the Labour Party is wiped out.

I was waiting for a comment like this! Usually new threads about politics are chalk full of this kind of worthless ****e, so it's good to see it take a little longer this time.

humberklog

At least the news of this new party didn't immediately make me sigh heavily with disappointment.

And that is positive.

Thomas_.

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

How ominous, the inability of the party to make such a basic decision as to a leader.

If they can't even select a leader with conviction, I can't see them operating with any gumption in a coalition government.

Utterly indistinguishable from Labour in substance. The two parties will fuse together after most of the Labour Party is wiped out.

It´s better to have people like these three than to have the likes of Syriza.

1800

So the Labour Party Lite have joined the circus. More Indos who just deserted a sinking ship, who are clearly no different from the rest. That parasite O Riordan will probably jump aboard when he gets the chance. Abolish the water charges and repel the 8th, yawn.

Just a bunch of posh Clare Dalys. Think we've more than enough socially liberal parties in this state.

Thomas_.

1800 wrote: »

So the Labour Party Lite have joined the circus. More Indos who just deserted a sinking ship, who are clearly no different from the rest. That parasite O Riordan will probably jump aboard when he gets the chance. Abolish the water charges and repel the 8th, yawn.

Just a bunch of posh Clare Dalys. Think we've more than enough socially liberal parties in this state.

Why not give them a chance?

1800

Thomas_. wrote: »

Why not give them a chance?

Why should I when agree with very little of what the stand for. Donnelly and Muprhy have been decent Independents so far but Shortalls minimum alcohol pricing policy which is now coming into law is idiotic. She jumped ship when she couldnt get her way but she is no different to anyone else in the Labour Party now, a lying opportunist.

Also what sort of political party has 3 members 8 months before an election? It doesnt matter what most people think because they wont b in our constituencies. Hear Shortall now on about equality, progress and the Nordic model. More total bollocks no different to any of the left wing parties we have.

dRNk SAnTA

With Catherine Murphy and Stephen Donnelly on board, this party have gone straight to #1 for me.

Roisin Shorthall isn't my cup of tea, but I don't doubt that she's in politics for the right reasons.

I'm hoping Social Democrats stay true to the broad principals of open government, evidence led decision making, and fairness in society.

BoJack Horseman

So it is an official party then!

With a former Workers Party & Labour party membership it will try to gain reelection amongst the already very crowded left wing of voters.

Donnelly must fear reelection more than I thought to abandon independence.

K-9

Cr4pSnip3r wrote: »

I was waiting for a comment like this! Usually new threads about politics are chalk full of this kind of worthless ****e, so it's good to see it take a little longer this time.

Mod:

The post raises valid points, you mightn't agree with them but wondering why they don't have a leader is reasonable, even if they are against personality politics or whatever. Either give a decent response or don't bother at all.

1800 wrote: »

So the Labour Party Lite have joined the circus. More Indos who just deserted a sinking ship, who are clearly no different from the rest. That parasite O Riordan will probably jump aboard when he gets the chance. Abolish the water charges and repel the 8th, yawn.

Just a bunch of posh Clare Dalys. Think we've more than enough socially liberal parties in this state.

1800 wrote: »

Why should I when agree with very little of what the stand for. Donnelly and Muprhy have been decent Independents so far but Shortalls minimum alcohol pricing policy which is now coming into law is idiotic. She jumped ship when she couldnt get her way but she is no different to anyone else in the Labour Party now, a lying opportunist.

Also what sort of political party has 3 members 8 months before an election? It doesnt matter what most people think because they wont b in our constituencies. Hear Shortall now on about equality, progress and the Nordic model. More total bollocks no different to any of the left wing parties we have.

So much for having less personality politics!

Can we all try and up the standard a bit please.

Thomas_.

Thomas_. wrote: »

It´s better to have people like these three than to have the likes of Syriza.

"Vote for us, at least we're not Syriza"?

Yes the Social Democrats are preferable over Syriza, who are themselves preferable over the Golden Dawn, who would be preferable to the Colonels' Junta, who were preferable over Pincochet, who would have been preferable over Ivan the Terrible, who was preferable over Pol Pot and Hitler!

You can always make the case that a political party is better than another political party in another country, but it's a completely redundant observation since it has no electoral relevance. There are about ten political parties represented in the Dail already, none of which are Syriza.

K-9

PS:

Personal posts attacking others will get deleted promptly (and replies to the deleted posts), so not much point wasting your time making them. Repeat offenders will get bans. Thanks.

The cafe is available for those more interested in that type of thing!

1800

Even if you agree with all they stand for, surely its obvious a party with 3 members 8 months from an election can have no relevance? Where or what is the change here?

1800

K-9 wrote: »

PS:

Personal posts attacking others will get deleted promptly, so not much point wasting your time making them. Repeat offenders will get bans. Thanks.

The cafe is available for those more interested in that type of thing!

Was my last post really worth deleting? I dont think there was anything personal in there. If people want to pretend this is change and high five each other without opposition thats fine, Im out.

K-9

1800 wrote: »

Was my last post really worth deleting? I dont think there was anything personal in there. If people want to pretend this is change and high five each other without opposition thats fine, Im out.

You probably missed my edit, if a post is deleted we generally delete replies to the deleted post, because if we didn't, there's no point deleting the post in the first place! Or something like that.

Any more queries, pm me rather than raising modding issues on thread.

Thomas_.

1800 wrote: »

Why should I when agree with very little of what the stand for. Donnelly and Muprhy have been decent Independents so far but Shortalls minimum alcohol pricing policy which is now coming into law is idiotic. She jumped ship when she couldnt get her way but she is no different to anyone else in the Labour Party now, a lying opportunist.

Well, as I said, I know very Little about the past of These three People who founded this new party. So, my approach and dealing with it comes from a more neutral angle. As for being an Opportunist, isn´t that what makes many of the average politicians? Without taking an opportunity, one can just go upwards rather the hard way and politics, wherever you look, is some sort of a hard business in many ways. Personally, I wouldn´t take up the efforts most of the TDs have to in order to Keep their seat and get things done. Although most of them are just a part in the bigger picture, they invest much time and energy to serve their People. That is said in fairness and in general terms.

If one TD leaves the Party through which list he or she got elected, well, such things doesn´t go down well among their "former" fellow Party comerades, but I would pay some Attention on the reasonings that brought them to leave the Party. Some fundamental disagreements might be the reason for, some couldn´t follow the Party line because it wasn´t what they stood for and what they could cope with. Plenty of reasons for such a step and of course, one can´t exclude the simple opportunism to make a change for the benefit of oneself. But whether the benefit kicks in after such a step remains to be seen in the light of the next election. That puts such things to the test and parts the personality from the party. So, if one gets re-elected after leaving the party and he gets elected because of his personality than it is indeed a benefit for the candidate himself showing that he made the right decision if the party he was a member of before is on a steady decline in the votes, like the Irish Labour Party appears to be.

Also what sort of political party has 3 members 8 months before an election? It doesnt matter what most people think because they wont b in our constituencies. Hear Shortall now on about equality, progress and the Nordic model. More total bollocks no different to any of the left wing parties we have.

Many things start in small numbers and it´s up the those who started it how they can gain supporters and fellow members to expand and also what kind of policy they are offering the electorate. In a political environment such as it is in the present time in Ireland, where a certain amount of people are fed up with the establishment parties and are looking for something new, more genuine, more closer to the people and - that´s also some point - have no track of any sort linking them with and to corruption, a new party might stand a chance to get a go in elections. Small in numbers now, but they can grow and that they can at the expense of the establishment parties which have often disappointed their voters.

In a democracy, many things are possible as far as they get the backing from the electorate.

Thomas_.

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

"Vote for us, at least we're not Syriza"?

Yes the Social Democrats are preferable over Syriza, who are themselves preferable over the Golden Dawn, who would be preferable to the Colonels' Junta, who were preferable over Pincochet, who would have been preferable over Ivan the Terrible, who was preferable over Pol Pot and Hitler!

You can always make the case that a political party is better than another political party in another country, but it's a completely redundant observation since it has no electoral relevance. There are about ten political parties represented in the Dail already, none of which are Syriza.

My remark on Syriza to bring it into this as an example for a new far-left Party was to Show that there is one way to start a new Party with amateurs and another new Party with already serving TDs who have a knowledge how politics works.

FreudianSlippers

1800 wrote: »

So the Labour Party Lite have joined the circus. More Indos who just deserted a sinking ship, who are clearly no different from the rest. That parasite O Riordan will probably jump aboard when he gets the chance. Abolish the water charges and repel the 8th, yawn.

Just a bunch of posh Clare Dalys. Think we've more than enough socially liberal parties in this state.

I'm no fan of the Labour party, but I'd vote for these guys ahead of Renua any day.

Thomas_.

1800 wrote: »

Even if you agree with all they stand for, surely its obvious a party with 3 members 8 months from an election can have no relevance? Where or what is the change here?

In this time of the internet and other facilities like Facebook and twitter, 8 months are a short time indeed, but if one gets it the right way, one can use this time to bring something forward.

efb

This is a party I could vote for.
3 principled politicians

Sam Russell

efb wrote: »

This is a party I could vote for.
3 principled politicians

That is nearly all of the principled politicians in the Dail, and all in one party!

Thomas_.

Sam Russell wrote: »

That is nearly all of the principled politicians in the Dail, and all in one party!

If that is really the case, I could only say "God save Ireland" to that.

Patser

Thomas_. wrote: »

It´s better to have people like these three than to have the likes of Syriza.

Catherine Murphy is one of Ireland's biggest cheerleaders for Syriza, it's just that Paul Murphy and Sinn Fein's profile masks hers.

https://mobile.twitter.com/CathMurphyTD/status/616930139058925569

In.Comparison Donnelly has been a breath of fresh air in the Dáil. A truly smart, literate independent mind.

Do it's a strange mix to see him in with a dogmatic veteran Workers Party/democratic left ex-member

Bannasidhe

Patser wrote: »

Catherine Murphy is one of Ireland's biggest cheerleaders for Syriza, it's just that Paul Murphy and Sinn Fein's profile masks hers.

https://mobile.twitter.com/CathMurphyTD/status/616930139058925569

In.Comparison Donnelly has been a breath of fresh air in the Dáil. A truly smart, literate independent mind.

Do it's a strange mix to see him in with a dogmatic veteran Workers Party/democratic left ex-member

Leaving aside long gone political parties or to but it another way - looking forward not endlessly backwards - is it really so strange to see Donnelly in a mix with a veteran politician who actually refused to play the crony game and left what could have been a very cushy number with a huge pension just for keeping her mouth shut?

It would be great if we could discuss this new political party without resorting to the same tired old kneejerk anti-left/anti-right rhetoric .. is that too much to ask for?

BoJack Horseman

Bannasidhe wrote: »

is it really so strange to see Donnelly in a mix with a veteran politician who actually refused to play the crony game and left what could have been a very cushy number with a huge pension just for keeping her mouth shut?

Shortall & Murphy are decades long politicos.
Do you think they are missing out on a pension somewhere?

Donnelly, being a generic 'government is always wrong' backbencher can fit in with anybody.

Bannasidhe

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Shortall & Murphy are decades long politicos.
Do you think they are missing out on a pension somewhere?

Donnelly, being a generic 'government is always wrong' backbencher can fit in with anybody.

I don't care.

I care about what they are trying to do now and in the future because I sure don't like what any of the main parties are up too and don't trust any of them.

Benny_Cake

Patser wrote: »

Do it's a strange mix to see him in with a dogmatic veteran Workers Party/democratic left ex-member

If Catherine Murphy was that dogmatic she would probably still be in the Workers Party (they still exist, believe it or not). She's been a rare enough breed, an independent who actually has an interest in what happens outside her constituency. Looking at Donnelly and Shortfall, I get a similar impression.

There will be plenty of Labour voters looking for a new home at the next election so they should certainly sweep up a few of those. I live in Murphy's constituency so I'd have probably given her a high preference anyway.

Bannasidhe

Bannasidhe wrote: »

It would be great if we could discuss this new political party without resorting to the same tired old kneejerk anti-left/anti-right rhetoric .. is that too much to ask for?

Nobody is doing that. This thread is probably surprising for its complete absence of ideological flag-waving.

Personally, I'm skeptical of the effectiveness of the new party, because their natural constituency mostly overlaps with Labour. They might as well have called themselves Provisional Labour, or Continuity Labour.

The Labour Party was everyone's friend before it entered government, because it could advance wishy-washy social objectives which it soon found were unable to be implemented. Any moderate left-wing party will face this problem, and will be doomed to seething unpopularity when voters feel abandoned.

If the Social Democrats enter a coalition government, they will fare precisely as badly as every other social democratic party that has entered coalition as a junior partner in Britain and Ireland: near-wipeout.

The only thing that distinguishes the SDs from Labour is that the SDs haven't had an opportunity to be unpopular yet.

I'm saying this as a left voter, by the way.

Bannasidhe

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Nobody is doing that. This thread is probably surprising for its complete absence of ideological flag-waving.

Personally, I'm skeptical of the effectiveness of the new party, because their natural constituency mostly overlaps with Labour. They might as well have called themselves Provisional Labour, or Continuity Labour.

The Labour Party was everyone's friend before it entered government, because it could advance wishy-washy social objectives which it soon found were unable to be implemented. Any moderate left-wing party will face this problem, and will be doomed to seething unpopularity when voters feel abandoned.

If the Social Democrats enter a coalition government, they will fare precisely as badly as every other social democratic party that has entered coalition as a junior partner in Britain and Ireland: near-wipeout.

The only thing that distinguishes the SDs from Labour is that the SDs haven't had an opportunity to be unpopular yet.

I'm saying this as a left voter, by the way.

Labour long abandoned it's constituency - and I say this as an ex-party member - it followed the same path as the UK Labour Party (which I was also once a member of...back when they still had a red flag not a thornless rose) and moved from distinctly left of centre to nudging right of centre.

Before going into government the party was deeply divided and everything opponents to forming a coalition feared has come to pass - indeed, it is worse then feared given it is the LP who are cheer leading for IW and brought in cuts to LPA without providing the promised childcare support. The LP is hemorrhaging membership along with voters.

There is a gap - whether or not the Social Democrats can fill that gap remains to be seen.

Up until now only SF seemed to provide a possible home for those voters but, like myself, many ex-Labourites are not entirely comfortable with SF.

Patser

Benny_Cake wrote: »

If Catherine Murphy was that dogmatic she would probably still be in the Workers Party (they still exist, believe it or not). She's been a rare enough breed, an independent who actually has an interest in what happens outside her constituency. Looking at Donnelly and Shortfall, I get a similar impression.

There will be plenty of Labour voters looking for a new home at the next election so they should certainly sweep up a few of those. I live in Murphy's constituency so I'd have probably given her a high preference anyway.

Don't get me wrong, I'm.curious about this new party too, and will be willing to see what they say will differentiate them from Labour, Sinn Fein etc. Also curious to see do they run other candidates in other constituencies, especially new bloods.

But just to call you up on.one thing. I live in Murphy's constituency now and she's most vocal here about the closing of Maynooth University's swimming pool. She may have interests outside her constituency but her focus is often local issues. (for example her demands about the university's pool, ignores the open to public pool in the Glenroyal hotel)

Sam Russell

The Labour party is a coalition between trade unionists and socialists. The new party will presumably not be pro trade unions (per se).

Good luck to them.

Annasopra

I just don't think Donnelly is genuinely left wing and feel that he is just going along with his because he perceives left wing politics to be more popular and make him more electable.

I mean the guy was elected in 2011 partly based on the fact that he was in talks with Shane Ross at the time.

Sam Russell

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

I just don't think Donnelly is genuinely left wing and feel that he is just going along with his because he perceives left wing politics to be more popular and make him more electable.

I mean the guy was elected in 2011 partly based on the fact that he was in talks with Shane Ross at the time.

Does that not say more about Shane Ross than Steven Donnelly?