Overreacting or the right thing to do.

kjl

kjl wrote: »

Warning content is a little disturbing.

Yes it's a person being shot until he is dead.

I don't blame the officers for reacting in this way, but I find this thread interesting because nobody seems to be perturbed at watching a man shot dead.

Maybe I'm too prudish about such things, or maybe I don't play enough video games, but I couldn't watch someone do that to a dog.

I fully understand why the police discharged their guns, but it's the humdrum online reaction to seeing a man die in this way that I find most unpleasant of all.

ohnonotgmail

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Yes it's a person being shot until he is dead.

I don't blame the officers for reacting in this way, but I find this thread interesting because nobody seems to be perturbed at watching a man shot dead.

Maybe I'm too prudish about such things, or maybe I don't play enough video games, but I couldn't watch someone do that to a dog.

I fully understand why the police discharged their guns, but it's the humdrum online reaction to seeing a man die in this way that I find most unpleasant of all.

well you dont actually see anything do you? no gunshot wounds, no blood, no closeups.

2Mad2BeMad

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

well you dont actually see anything do you? no gunshot wounds, no blood, no closeups.

i saw blood from the wound?
poor fecker got shot so many times theirs more holes in him then their is "him" left

idiot to be honest
real or fake gun, it looked real

although I don't get why they needed to shoot him nearly 10 times, 2 shots would of been enough to get him on the ground, and possible could of saved his life but they continued to shoot even as he stumbled to the ground, i think maybe 1 more shot while his back was facing them on the ground

either way

america is ****ed up in its way of policing but I've heard of such mad crimes over their I can see why their like that.

ohnonotgmail

i think it is interesting that because we have video of what happened the response has been (mostly) reasonable and agrees that the police were justified. I wonder what the response would be if we did not have video. Considerably more condemnation of the police i would imagine. The sooner they all start wearing bodycams the better.

ohnonotgmail

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

well you dont actually see anything do you? no gunshot wounds, no blood, no closeups.

It's not gore, or lack of it, that I reacted to. I just find it disquieting to unexpectedly see a person shot, fall over, and their life evaporate.

I've no doubt most people consider such a reaction a bit precious; until now, I didn't think it was unusual to react to a fatal shooting of a human in that way.

ScumLord

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

It's not gore, or lack of it, that I reacted to. I just find it disquieting to unexpectedly see a person shot, fall over, and their life evaporate.

What else was a video about American cops going to be about? You should have been expecting a shooting really.

Sierra 117

2Mad2BeMad wrote: »

although I don't get why they needed to shoot him nearly 10 times, 2 shots would of been enough to get him on the ground, and possible could of saved his life but they continued to shoot even as he stumbled to the ground, i think maybe 1 more shot while his back was facing them on the ground

Because those two shots you fire might miss. And even if they don't, two shots aren't guaranteed to put someone down.

frozenfrozen

I'm sure some james bond type would have been able to shoot the gun directly out of his hand, but in the real world it's bang bang bang bang bang bang bang until the person trying to kill you is no longer a threat. He was holding the gun until the second to last shot.

ScumLord

frozenfrozen wrote: »

I'm sure some james bond type would have been able to shoot the gun directly out of his hand,

Depends on which James Bond shows up. 1960s Bond would have shot the gun out of his hand and spanked a woman's arse. Modern James bond would shot the guy in the head and get airlifted out by a woman flying a helicopter.

Aimead

Looks justified to me, but I do have one concern though. When they were leading the man through the restaurant one of the cops has an exchange that goes something like this: “You want to know what page we’re on? Get outside! That’s what page we’re on.”

I might have gotten that slightly wrong, and I really don’t intend to re-watch what is, essentially, a snuff video to correct it. Does anyone else find that sort of comment and tone extremely unhelpful in a situation like this? That sort of approach will only lead to escalating the situation rather than de-escalating it.

I have noticed that there is a world of difference between US cops and the Gardai in terms of attitude. In my experience the actions and behaviours of the Gardai serve to calm the situation, where by contrast US cops tend to inflame situations for no justifiable reason (I’ve had “go back home to Ireland” yelled at me).

While it could never be argued that the above exchanged caused the shooting to happen, it is something that stood out for me. All that said, in the moment where the ‘gun’ was pulled out the cops were fully justified.

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

I wonder what the response would be if we did not have video. Considerably more condemnation of the police i would imagine. The sooner they all start wearing bodycams the better.

Given some of the videos I have seen I would like to reverse this a little, and ask how many killings were recorded as justified without video?

end of the road

Raging_Ninja wrote: »

Watched it. Seems like a 100% legit and reasonable use of force. Fraction of a second to react. People complaining about an hysterical reaction are talking through their hats.

they aren't. they are telling the truth.

end of the road

Canis Lupus wrote: »

And captain 'predictable response' has arrived. This is such a cut and dry case of justified shooting and yet you still can't be happy. It's such a shame the guy wasn't black so you could harp on about that as well :rolleyes:

no, a case of typical hysterical over reaction as per usual with murika

DEFTLEFTHAND

Looks like it could be a case of 'suicide by cop'. People do genuinely use this as a suicide method.

end of the road

Sierra 117 wrote: »

It was definitely the right thing to do. The man pulled out a gun. Real gun or no, you don't do that. The police were completely justified in shooting him.

it was definitely the wrong thing to do. he pulled out a bb gun. differences can easily be told if your of a high standard which other police forces require. the police were completely unjustified in murdering him, so now hopefully they will shove off to another job.

DEFTLEFTHAND

end of the road wrote: »

it was definitely the wrong thing to do. he pulled out a bb gun. differences can easily be told if your of a high standard which other police forces require. the police were completely unjustified in murdering him, so now hopefully they will shove off to another job.

You'd imagine even for a person well versed in firearms that it is very difficult to identify a weapon in a split second at night. Their training tells them to shoot in such a situation. The dead man would also have known that.

It wasn't me!

I'm very well versed in firearms. The differences are not at all apparent in low light in a split second high stress situation. Some are utterly realistic even in good light and would require an examination to differentiate. In any case, it's reasonable to expect that anyone pointing what appears to be a weapon at you represents a threat. If there's an apparent gun pointed at you you do not have time to debate with yourself about whether it's real.

mynamejeff

end of the road wrote: »

it was definitely the wrong thing to do. he pulled out a bb gun. differences can easily be told if your of a high standard which other police forces require. the police were completely unjustified in murdering him, so now hopefully they will shove off to another job.

what standerd of training allows you to spot the difference between a bb gun and a live fire arm in the dark in a couple of tenths of a second ?

once again EODR you are talking complete nonsense.

from the second that man reached for a supposed fire arm he was dead . no other armed police force in the world would have reacted differently.

you obviously have some problem with authority or are just a nasty little under bridge dwelling troll

MadDog76

The officers should have searched him immediately upon finding him in the bathroom .......... but wtf was he thinking pulling that out and pointing it at them!!??!! I would have shot him too.

B.A._Baracus

Of course it's sad that a life ended. I mean he did only steal a beer. But he made a very foolish mistake and he ultimately paid for it.

Cops were in the right. But from the looks of it he either (A,) wanted to die or (B,) which is more likely that he just watched one two many movies. Like the way you see someone get the drop on the cops and they throw their guns to the ground. But thats fantasy. This is reality.

mynamejeff

MadDog76 wrote: »

The officers should have searched him immediately upon finding him in the bathroom .......... but wtf was he thinking pulling that out and pointing it at them!!??!! I would have shot him too.

and have him draw the gun in the toilet? on the slippy tiles were there was less room to move and more innocents if he started firing? might be more than on one them in the restaurant . when he pulls it outside the male cop grabs him and throws him away from him and his partner so there's greater separation and less chance of some one else getting hurt. also if you watch them walking him out , one in front one behind. the one in front keeps turning around to keep and eye on him and moves knifes on a table out of reach as he passes.

not a good situation for anyone but the only possible error was the one extra shot the female cop fires however its fairly understandable and excusable in the circumstances.

salamanca22

The officers are 100% in the right here in my opinion. The perp drew what looked like a real firearm and pointed it in the direction of the officers. The officers then made a decision to apply lethal force, the officer drew his gun amazingly fast and if he did not draw as fast as he did and the perp really did have a gun then it was goodnight for the officer.

This is definitely, in my eyes a case of suicide by cop though, the guy was going through a divorce and was homeless sleeping on his brothers couch. He had to have been severely depressed. This way out though is really just so selfish, those cops will now have the emotional strain of having killed a person. They will have to go through therapy and may never be the same again.

Also, that male cop when going through the restaurant, when he moves the cutlery out of reach, what a pro.

Cops have already been found not at fault.

MadDog76

mynamejeff wrote: »

and have him draw the gun in the toilet? on the slippy tiles were there was less room to move and more innocents if he started firing? might be more than on one them in the restaurant . when he pulls it outside the male cop grabs him and throws him away from him and his partner so there's greater separation and less chance of some one else getting hurt. also if you watch them walking him out , one in front one behind. the one in front keeps turning around to keep and eye on him and moves knifes on a table out of reach as he passes.

not a good situation for anyone but the only possible error was the one extra shot the female cop fires however its fairly understandable and excusable in the circumstances.

So it was better to have him walking behind an officer through a crowded restaurant with a loaded handgun which he could have pulled out at any time during his journey from the bathroom to the front door and start blasting away wildly!?!! :rolleyes:

mynamejeff

MadDog76 wrote: »

So it was better to have him walking behind an officer through a crowded restaurant with a loaded handgun which he could have pulled out at any time during his journey from the bathroom to the front door and start blasting away wildly!?!! :rolleyes:

with the officer in front keeping a eye on him (as can plainly be seen) and the female cop directly behind him with her hand on her gun ( given the speed which she draws it at) controlling the environment of the exit (moving the possible weapons. being outside removes the potential for some accomplish or other person interfering with the arrest ( cops aren't popular in america right now). As well as this there is the legal ramifications of searching someone before arrest ,reasonable cause etc that could get the cop in trouble.

hynesie08

end of the road wrote: »

it was definitely the wrong thing to do. he pulled out a bb gun. differences can easily be told if your of a high standard which other police forces require. the police were completely unjustified in murdering him, so now hopefully they will shove off to another job.

Yes there are, when they're on a table in front of you. But how are you supposed to when someone is pulling it on you? "oh I noticed as he raised the gun towards me that the serial number started with ez6, which a real 45 wouldn't..." cop on.

Both officers should be commended for the way they managed to control the situation, not get **** on because they didn't notice the barrel was .37 of an inch shorter than it should be.

Raging_Ninja

MadDog76 wrote: »

So it was better to have him walking behind an officer through a crowded restaurant with a loaded handgun which he could have pulled out at any time during his journey from the bathroom to the front door and start blasting away wildly!?!! :rolleyes:

They mightn't have had probable cause to search him.

SummerRebel

They should have unloaded another clip into him. Total idiot.

MadDog76

mynamejeff wrote: »

with the officer in front keeping a eye on him (as can plainly be seen) and the female cop directly behind him with her hand on her gun ( given the speed which she draws it at) controlling the environment of the exit (moving the possible weapons. being outside removes the potential for some accomplish or other person interfering with the arrest ( cops aren't popular in america right now). As well as this there is the legal ramifications of searching someone before arrest ,reasonable cause etc that could get the cop in trouble.

That's all b******s!

"Keeping an eye on him" while walking in front of him!!!

The truth is, they didn't perceive him as a threat which resulted in him getting the drop on them outside .......... if they had searched him inside the bathroom where he was contained (no where to run like he tried to outside) then he would be alive today ........ he's dead because all three of the individuals involved made bad decisions.

agent graves

their actions were totally justified but fcuk me there was no need for the amount of shots.. they were even unloading into him when he was'nt moving on the ground..

MadDog76

Raging_Ninja wrote: »

They mightn't have had probable cause to search him.

Reasonable grounds to believe he had committed a crime?

They had probable cause ...........

Raging_Ninja

MadDog76 wrote: »

That's all b******s!

"Keeping an eye on him" while walking in front of him!!!

The truth is, they didn't perceive him as a threat which resulted in him getting the drop on them outside .......... if they had searched him inside the bathroom where he was contained (no where to run like he tried to outside) then he would be alive today ........ he's dead because all three of the individuals involved made bad decisions.

They can only search him without a warrant when arresting him. He wasn't under arrest, so searching him would have been a breach of his rights.

http://atkinsonlawoffices.com/uncategorized/when-can-a-police-officer-search-i-e-frisk-me/

The United States Supreme Court has held that a police officer must have additional reasonable articulable suspicion that the individual to be searched is armed with a dangerous weapon and is presently dangerous. In other words, not only must the officer have a reasonable articulable suspicion that the individual is armed with a weapon, but must also have a reasonable articulable suspicion that the individual may use that weapon.

The US Supreme Court struck down the NY stop & frisk policy as unconstitutional.