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PC Gaming Forum [2015 Review & Update]
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26-06-2015 1:05pm#1Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 4,600 CMod ✭✭✭✭Join Date:Posts: 3897
Dear PCG'ers,
As you may or may not know, there has been quite a lot of discussion regarding the future of PCG given it unexpectedly broke its own boundaries and blossomed into something bigger than was originally intended. This isn't considered a bad thing by any means, yet our allowance of general gaming discussions here on PCG (when we already have a general gaming discussion board) required some review after being left unchecked for quite some time.
We're pleased to announce that PCG will be allowed to continue on the path it is going, though out of respect for our sister-forums and gaming areas here on boards, there have been some minor changes you should be aware of.
The Charter has been updated - and a new thread regarding "Non-PC Specifics" has been created. Considering PCG houses many 'general discussions' despite technically belonging on the Gaming (General) board, we encourage you to consider all options before creating a thread. While we won't be clamping down on general game topics in PCG (provided they are in a PC light to begin with), we will definitely be more vigilant when it comes to other off-topic threads.
Outside of that - thank you to everyone who has taken part in PCG since its creation. You've made it blossom beyond expectations and we hope you're enjoying the forum! If you have any public feedback regarding PCG in general, feel free to post your thoughts here
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For now, much like the General Gaming board, PCG will no longer house any discussions, thread titles or implications of 'Master Race', even in jest. We are not in competition here, so be mindful.
Sorry, but just to clarify, is this a piss-take?
Seriously.
Sure, it can be well annoying on unrelated forums where they mightn't be amenable to the joke and all that, but on a PC-centric board, who on earth is going to care?
If someone's going off on some rant about how they hate consoles and all that, it's probably off-topic anyway, and there's already Boards-wide policy in place for dealing with that.
If you're getting offended by sarcastic naming conventions on a board you don't post on, you seriously need to have a word with yourself.0 -
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This forum has gone to the dogs. There's just far too much nannyism and oversight now to the point where constructive debate and critique is stifled for fear of upsetting someone on the internetz (serious business). God forbid someone reads that a complete stranger disliked their favourite video game, walks outside and throws themselves off a bridge....I know it's not the ordinary mods fault because this crap is being set from above but it's clear no discussion towards it's merits are being brought up. For those real gamers out there that want to discuss positive issues AS WELL AS, MOST IMPORTANTLY, THE NEGATIVES...then I'll see you on Neogaf or Reddit. 0
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This forum has gone to the dogs. There's just far too much nannyism and oversight now to the point where constructive debate and critique is stifled for fear of upsetting someone on the internetz (serious business). God forbid someone reads that a complete stranger disliked their favourite video game, walks outside and throws themselves off a bridge....I know it's not the ordinary mods fault because this crap is being set from above but it's clear no discussion towards it's merits are being brought up.
For those real gamers out there that want to discuss positive issues AS WELL AS, MOST IMPORTANTLY, THE NEGATIVES...then I'll see you on Neogaf or Reddit.
Anyway this whole forum's smelling of butthurt and over-moderation.0 -
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The fact people are getting up in arms over it should indicate that it can easily be taken equally as serious in the other direction. Those who visit shouldn't have to see PCMR/CMR or any other titles or comments on either PCG, G(G), or any console forum - it should be applied everywhere, hence it is not an attack on PCG. You may not think it (and I certainly didn't, personally) but it 'can' offend and it 'can' derail threads or cause less traffic - and so it is going to stop, seeing as such attitudes are also held in the forum of which should have rightly housed a lot of our threads until we reaffirmed PCG's position.
There's no "getting up in arms over".
You're just wrong.
Stop being wrong and then nobody will want to tell you you're being wrong.
Those who visit shouldn't have to see PCMR/CMR or any other titles or comments on either PCG,
Why?it should be applied everywhere,
Why?but it 'can' offend and it 'can' derail threads or cause less traffic
In some contexts? Yes.
Like in a forum for a different gaming platform.
Here? No. Not having that. Even your choice of words is strange - "offend" rather than "irritate". Going OT is irritating, not offensive.
Like I said, going off topic is already against the rules.
Saying, "it's against the rules to go off topic and it's also against the rules to go off topic about a specific thing" doesn't make any sense. It's redundant.
It also doesn't follow from that that the way they've gone off topic ought to be banned.
Talking about cheese burgers can drag a thread off topic, but their mention isn't being banned.
The biggest thing about this is that it's just weird.
My impression is that people like light-touch moderation in general and if there's no particular problem, then wading in and throwing new rules around leaves a bad taste.
As far as I can tell we've a healthy community going here. What is the specific need for change? Tweaking the prevalence of multi-platform threads that oughtn't have a PC-specific thread? Yeah, maybe. I haven't noticed it as a problem but I would imagine that it's possible.
Any platform specific forum is going to be a bit insular but that's neither a strength or a weakness. It merely is.0 -
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There's no "getting up in arms over".
You're just wrong.
Stop being wrong and then nobody will want to tell you you're being wrong.
Why?
Why?
In some contexts? Yes.
Like in a forum for a different gaming platform.
Here? No. Not having that. Even your choice of words is strange - "offend" rather than "irritate". Going OT is irritating, not offensive.
Like I said, going off topic is already against the rules.
Saying, "it's against the rules to go off topic and it's also against the rules to go off topic about a specific thing" doesn't make any sense. It's redundant.
It also doesn't follow from that that the way they've gone off topic ought to be banned.
Talking about cheese burgers can drag a thread off topic, but their mention isn't being banned.
The biggest thing about this is that it's just weird.
My impression is that people like light-touch moderation in general and if there's no particular problem, then wading in and throwing new rules around leaves a bad taste.
As far as I can tell we've a healthy community going here. What is the specific need for change? Tweaking the prevalence of multi-platform threads that oughtn't have a PC-specific thread? Yeah, maybe. I haven't noticed it as a problem but I would imagine that it's possible.
Any platform specific forum is going to be a bit insular but that's neither a strength or a weakness. It merely is.
You're going to get an infraction for this. Sad.
Anyway, it's as clear as day that there is a complete chasm between what the users (the lifeblood) of this whole forum expects and what the mods want as seen in that the only people thanking the OP's post are mods and the only people thanking your post are actual normal users.
At the end of the day the only people left to discuss video games will be the mods if this continues.0 -
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It's a feedback thread - all 2cents welcome
While I felt the same, it also harps back to the issue we had before regarding lolcats or yorema. It's silly fare that is equally as silly if taken seriously but they became so norm and publicly acceptable that it was thrown around casually and started to grate on literally everyone.
Not saying the same could or would happen with PCMR related stuff - but on the whole, the Gaming Category is vast and should be pretty open armed. Some people did express offense and some of them can (and do) visit both forums in question - and those were the verbal knowns. There are many, many, quiet unknowns to take into consideration, too. Keeping the PCMR out of titles is a small but welcoming step - the rest can be monitored case by case.
Wait, so somebody came in here.....didn't like the term PCMR and reported it?
That equates me walking into my neighbours house right now and reporting them because I don't approve of the discussion they're having.....0 -
Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 30,019 CMod ✭✭✭✭
Join Date:Posts: 28726
We laid out the reasons we're imposing a similar ban on this in Gaming (General) here. Sadly, the way we see it used there is most often in a trolling manner, and that tends to lead threads astray and kick off the same old tired, go nowhere format wars. So we're just saying any of that sort of nonsense, be it from PC or console gamers, is not welcome, and frankly I have no doubt it will lead to a friendlier forum for everyone, no question whatsoever. And we've had very little disagreement on the issue from users there (or here, it seems)
I definitely think the case is different for PC Gaming forum, though, so I'd have total trust in RopeDrink and Kiith to take all of your feedback on board and come up with something that is right for this forum
I think the phrase's use will inevitably differ in the different contexts of this forum and over yonder.
Just to give my own personal opinion on the issue: It's only in the last few months I've gotten a proper gaming PC, and it is a beast. But while I certainly now find myself with more of an interest in PC-specific forums, here and elsewhere, I have to confess the attitudes one encounters often turn me right off. And, fair or not, I think the whole PCMR gag has become a sort of shorthand for a lot of that. I don't find it offensive or anything like that (although do tend to avoid likening myself to the Nazis wherever possible): I just find it tired and irritating. While undoubtedly it's often used tongue in cheek, I tend to find there's almost always some degree of earnestness in there as well, and it can be tricky to separate the two. It creates a sort of elitism, accidental or otherwise, that can IMO be a barrier to entry. I totally see the argument that it's mostly totally harmless too, and obviously all communities can and should have their own in-jokes. But above all else I think it just annoys me the same way any joke I heard dozens of times a week would start to grate pretty quickly. It's less the joke that I'd take umbrage with, and more its incessant overuse.
Anyway, that's just my 2c on the subject as somebody who plays a lot of games on PC and consoles alike. Again, total faith in the mods here in taking both sides of the argument on board and coming up with a reasoned solution.0 -
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dreamers75 wrote: »Forcing everyone into the games forum to increase traffic was a stupid idea, i assume this is the moderators realising this was a stupid idea about 2 years later.
It wasn't to increase traffic it was to increase the quality of discussion on games which after the sub forums were created took a nose dive. It's imo the best thing we've done for the forums. And there's been plenty of fanboy bull****, go look at the cesspit of the PS4 vs Xbox thread that had to be put down to save us all from idiocy.
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Sorry, but just to clarify, is this a piss-take?
Seriously.
Sure, it can be well annoying on unrelated forums where they mightn't be amenable to the joke and all that, but on a PC-centric board, who on earth is going to care?
If someone's going off on some rant about how they hate consoles and all that, it's probably off-topic anyway, and there's already Boards-wide policy in place for dealing with that.
If you're getting offended by sarcastic naming conventions on a board you don't post on, you seriously need to have a word with yourself.
Agree with this seem ott, especially as I consider the gaming general forum as console domain and have for some time and this as a pc gamer section.
Similar type of tactic used in radio to calm stuff down when stuff was bad but to apply such a heavy hand here is bloody ridiculous, we must be a terrible bunch.
As someone who has most current and last generation of consoles and hand helds , I am at a loss how the argument of barrier to entry can be put across. Really are we so overly sensitive now ?0 -
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Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 30,019 CMod ✭✭✭✭ Join Date:Posts: 28726
I still don't like the negative connotation the likes of Johnny has taken onto himself to associate with us pc gamers.
To be fair, my particularly negative response to it has probably built up elsewhere. Places like Reddit's PC section, which I have stumbled into from time to time when looking for some information, are absolute cesspits for it and can be incredibly hostile. I've seen a few examples of it in the games cat here over the years (I'd still stand by that all the forums in this category are among the friendliest gaming forums I've ever encountered), but safe to say nowhere near on the level as one would see elsewhere online. Still, as a result of all that when I see the likes of PCMR used in thread titles here, that makes me involuntarily cringe nonetheless - just don't see the need for it whatsoever, and certainly well past the point of seeing the humour in it. That's just my personal response to it, fully understand others don't see it that way. Also don't want to tar everybody with the same brush either - I definitely don't think everyone who uses the odd PCMR jokes go around comment sections waging flame wars on 'console peasants'.
And, just to clarify, I've seen seriously obnoxious carry on from console users too (still wake up in cold sweats thinking about the PS4 vs Xbox One thread - some of the carry on there made a few PCMR jokes seem like a very welcome alternative). Take a look at comment sections on the likes of the Playstation Blog and it's a hive of idiocy. Maybe its just me, but when I see people being so utterly obsessed and defensive of consumer hardware of any sort - console, PC, phones, whatever - it strikes me as childish and unnecessary at best, and honestly gets in the way of talking about games like all of us want to. Hardware divisions will always be there by their very nature, but I don't think they need to get in the way and split communities quite as much as they do a lot of time.
And can't stress enough that this is nothing about being offended by it, it's just about being bored by it. As you yourself said, my main objection (outside the cases where its used as a straight-up trolling tool) is "it's old and quite boring" 0 -
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Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 30,019 CMod ✭✭✭✭ Join Date:Posts: 28726
Entirely subjective.
Yes, I'm just giving my opinion as a non-mod of this forum just as you are I make no apologies whatsoever for what we're doing over in Gaming (General) - the community there requested a change (to a legitimate problem), we responded, and there seems to be very few if any objections to it. What the mods here do is entirely their own prerogative, and I have no say whatsoever in it. I'm just offering feedback as a poster who would often have an interest in the topics discussed here. What I say here has no more weight than what you say. Frankly, I seem to be in a considerable minority.
I'm also not saying that anybody here is verbally berating anyone (I have seen it elsewhere on this site, but honestly can't say I've seen it in this forum bar a handful of sincere 'console peasant' comments), and I don't want to blame anyone here for crimes committed elsewhere. Apologies if anybody took that from my posts, was not intended. I just personally find it a turn off when I see PCMR jokes in thread titles and the like. That's just me, and yes hands up its carried over from biases developed elsewhere. I'm not denying that for a second.If you become bored of the Steam Sale threads that pop up every 6 months would you vote to ban or censor those?
No, because I think it's a fundamentally different thing than a PCMR joke - a meme (with IMO elitist under/overtones) vs a topic of discussion.I fear you are right Johnny when you mention that you are bored by the joke, but is it right for someone else to decide whether and when others should be bored by a joke?
Again, just giving feedback. I trust the mods here to take all of your feedback on board and make the decision they feel is right for this community as well as the wider games category. That's as bluntly as I can put it, really, and that's my opinion offered.0 -
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You could ask people about their own triggers and they simply wouldn't apply to everyone. I have a few very sensitive triggers, some of which others would find laughable - but hey, they can still get me to feel like someone said the most offensive thing ever or throw me into a rage while others giggle at how trivial it is to them, or the 'overreaction' in their eyes. Not saying that is the case here - but it's not the right question (why does it?).
One thing to remember about 'any' offensive content, especially that of which had never been in highlighted in any rules - is that so few people use report functions even against rule breaking material, meaning a lot probably feel that however offended they may be or however such comments effect their perspective on a forum attitude or discussion, it's futile to report. There is also an obscene amount of lurkers who will never make their feelings known regardless. A lot of others expressed concerns elsewhere.
Previous to (and during) talks it was obvious it had been a problem before in sister forums and quite a lot of people had very different takes on the term(s). Ultimately, it's not an attack on PCG or a claim that it was a problem to begin with or that there is something wrong with what we've been doing - it's more a small compromise for the bigger picture to smooth the tone across the gaming map. I still believe most people here won't miss anything at all and above all, I'm extremely glad PCG can still be left to its own devices. I feel we have something great here and of all the things that could have happened, we drew an extremely long straw.
We can debate in circles all day about the why's and what's but I cannot think of any legitimate reason why PCMR, fanboy or any other such comments are of any benefit during a public discussion when we already know we're on PCG of which is all about PC's anyways. I'm a hardcore PC player who hasn't owned a console since the PSX in my teens AND very competitive minded at that - yet I have never used such a term nor would it cross my mind to do so. Again, one size doesn't fit all of course.
This has already been updated in the charter. It's preferably to avoid setting such a tone through forum titles (overall forum image), whereas we can encourage those who may stumble on something they feel offensive discussion wise to report it for a review. Outright banning it wasn't really the intention - the intention behind the changes is to solidify PCG away from G(G) but also be open to the fact a lot of threads/posts/users from there (and elsewhere) can (and will) be dropped here along the way, hence similarities are inevitable.
Tbh man, this just says to me that the forum charter is already set in stone and wont ever be changed to suit the community, as Calhoun says "if feedback had been sought from the community before hand and we had been engaged i wouldn't have so much a problem"
+1 for that
That's exactly why I've been vocal on this too.
I'm an ordinary regular poster here before I'm a mod anywhere, and that type of censorship, and it is a silly little thing i agree, but that silly little thing being censored for little other reason than it's offending some of the gaming mods has the beginnings of a larger problem, unnecessary censorship of the PCG forum. Sounds dramatic doesn't it? And yet, that's what it's effectively become instead of a solution to a real problem.
before you dismiss this as grumpy old bollocktalk, I know exactly how much of a headache being a mod can be, trust me CT's is no picnic either. But ye know what? PCMR wasn't an issue before it was made an issue by banning it.
Anyway, i'll leave it there.
-Annoyed but calm Dgn
Edit: Additional - Before "i leave it there"
Consider how awesome the regular posters are here that they actually post about how they want this community to be free from censorship and yet within tolerable levels of discussion. 0 -
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