French ATC strike July 2nd & 3rd 2015

BrokenMan

Looks like the french air traffic controllers are striking again. Can't see anything in the news but there's a notice on the main unions website. http://www.sncta.fr/
Luckily we are just avoiding in but it's getting beyond a joke. Last strike was only in April. Hopefully it gets sorted out.

pcasso

Does anyone know how much this effected Aer lingus last time out>
Due to fly back from Lyon with them on the 3rd.

BrokenMan

It's hard to know. Under french law at least 50% of flights must be allowed. Usually the day before the airlines are told how many flights to cancel. It's up to them then which ones they drop.

pcasso

BrokenMan wrote: »

It's hard to know. Under french law at least 50% of flights must be allowed. Usually the day before the airlines are told how many flights to cancel. It's up to them then which ones they drop.

Cheers.
I might make some contingency plans to stay another night if I have to.

CelticRambler

BrokenMan wrote: »

... it's getting beyond a joke. Last strike was only in April. Hopefully it gets sorted out.

Unlikely it'll be "sorted out" - the unions in France are inventing more and more ridiculous reasons to justify keeping things the way they were thirty years ago. This morning, it was a wild-cat strike in Calais blocking the port and the Channel Tunnel by a bunch of ship workers who can't get their heads 'round the fact that their demands have bankrupted three companies and no-one wants to employ them any more.

My son is due to fly in that morning. As his flight is operating ex Dublin and one of the first of the day, hopefully it won't be one of those cancelled.

Cosmo Kramer

Would it be safe enough to assume that a flight from Glasgow to Tenerife could route around French airspace easily enough on one of these days? It usually routes down over Dublin, then Waterford, and out to sea. Would a slight diversion to the west be enough to keep it away from French ATC issues?

BrokenMan

After getting worse. Other unions involved now and the strike starts on June 30th until July 3rd. One group for the first 2 days and a other the second 2 days. This is looking messy and coordinated.
From a personal point I've been caught up now in it. Flying to reus on the 1st.
It's a bloody disgrace that one overpaid and over privileged group of workers can basically hold the holiday plans of anyone travelling to southern europe to ransom.

BrokenMan

Cosmo Kramer wrote: »

Would it be safe enough to assume that a flight from Glasgow to Tenerife could route around French airspace easily enough on one of these days? It usually routes down over Dublin, then Waterford, and out to sea. Would a slight diversion to the west be enough to keep it away from French ATC issues?

It's not as simple.as just moving to the right. There are specific air corridors. It's possible to move to one the avoids french airspace but as far as I have read it depends on the willingness of the airline and the training of the crew as it's more over water. The lads in aircraft and aviation can give a getter answer.

Cosmo Kramer

How is this not getting more media air time - if it happens it will cause huge disruption for much of next week?

pcasso

Going to France on the 30th and returning home on the third.
I got caught in one of these the last time we went to France two years ago.
I am beginning to think that it is me that is been targeted.
:mad:

CelticRambler

Shoulda tried getting to/from Paris yesterday ... civil war because the taxi-drivers don't like Uber, so they blocked the airports, smashed and burnt the UBER cars (only about 70), made people walk along the motorway with their cases. Expect more of the same - the unions in France are like cornered rats at the moment, but ordinary people have had enough too and they're fighting back (literally fighting in many cases, like yesterday).

In case you missed it, the government launched a new multi-million euro charm offensive two weeks ago to persuade the world that France is a really welcoming country ...

whippet

I don't f'in believe this .. I am flying to Barca with the family early on the morning of the 3rd with AerLingus to board a cruise ship. I am assuming this will affect the majority of spanish bound fights too

pcasso

I rang Aer lingus who we fly with and they said they didn't anticipate our flight being effected.
Not sure how they would know that unless they have a contingency plan made already.
Perhaps it was just something to ease a customer's concerns.
Made me feel a little bit better I suppose.

BrokenMan

At least one of the unions striking on June 30 and July 1 have called it off. Hopefully the other one has as well. No news yet unfortunately for July 2nd and 3rd. Can't get at their website for some reason. Fingers crossed.

Jamie2k9

Aer Lingus should see minimal impact, they usually end up cancelling a Paris flights (of which there are up to 5 daily). At most I expect would be delays.

pcasso

BrokenMan wrote: »

At least one of the unions striking on June 30 and July 1 have called it off. Hopefully the other one has as well. No news yet unfortunately for July 2nd and 3rd. Can't get at their website for some reason. Fingers crossed.

Thanks for keeping the updates coming.
I am struggling to find any information about this at all, despite going through google.fr and imputing my searches via French.
Hopefully as the last poster said there will be minimum disruption for all.
I think this http://www.sncta.fr/ is the website for the union striking on July 2th and 3rd.

BrokenMan

pcasso wrote: »

I think this http://www.sncta.fr/ is the website for the union striking on July 2th and 3rd.

Yes that's the one. Was down earlier but back now. No good news on it unfortunately.

CelticRambler

This site gives a summary of all current and up-coming strikes in France: http://www.cestlagreve.fr/

Wildcat strikes, by their nature, won't be included.

BrokenMan

CelticRambler wrote: »

This site gives a summary of all current and up-coming strikes in France: http://www.cestlagreve.fr/

Wildcat strikes, by their nature, won't be included.

thanks. Interesting site. Hard to believe there's so many ongoing. Seems to be a national past time.

April 73

Due to fly to Nantes on the 2nd July. Feeling nervous now.

pcasso

Still hardly a whisper of this in the media with less than twenty four hours to go.
I find that amazing and unnerving.

whiskeyman

For Ryanair passengers, no concrete updates yet:

http://www.ryanair.com/ie/travel-updates/

Curb Your Enthusiasm

I am flying from Cork to Paris on the 3rd - should I be worried?

rainbow kirby

Any chance of knock-on effects lasting into Saturday? Flying LHR-CDG on Saturday morning.

whippet

according to this site it isn't going ahead (if my pigeon french is reliable)

http://www.cestlagreve.fr/greve/controleurs-aeriens-juillet-2015/

Leroy42

Is that not saying that the 30th and 1st is cancelled but the 2 & 3rd will go ahead. I think the original strike was planned for 2&3, then another two days (30 & 1st) were added but seem to have been removed, so the original 2 & 3rd are now the two days of strike action

CelticRambler

Leroy is correct.

There are multiple unions involved this action, and no coordination between them, so each will do what they think is in their own members' interest. Under French right-to-strike law, the unions are obliged to indicate their intention to encourage their members to strike during a certain period, but the individuals concerned are not required to confirm their participation until just before the action commences. There is no way for Ryanair (or anyone else) to know how many ATC staff will show up for work on the 2nd, and consequently no way of knowing how many aircraft can be handled during the two strike days.

Leroy42

In past strikes, what was the effect on Irish airlines? Is all France travel off and other countries get delayed etc? Due to fly to Lyon on Thursday so not looking hopeful at the moment

whiskeyman

For anyone with holidays booked, how does this play out if flights are affected?
Are you put on the next scheduled flight once the strike is over at no additional cost?
Or can the 'missed' flight be scheduled once the strike is over?

whippet

am I not reading this correctly?

"La grève n'aura lieu que les 2 et 3 juillet 2015."

my translation would say 'the strike will not take place on the 2 and 3rd july 2015'

pcasso

Leroy42 wrote: »

In past strikes, what was the effect on Irish airlines? Is all France travel off and other countries get delayed etc? Due to fly to Lyon on Thursday so not looking hopeful at the moment

Reading reports from the most recent strike in early april, Aer Lingus were barely effected at all with only the Dublin Paris route being effected by cancellations.
Ryanair seemed to have suffered more cancellations.
I have no idea though how much this will mimic the upcoming strike.
FWIW when I rang Aer Linus on Friday they said they didn't expect the Lyon flight to be effected as we fly home from there on Friday.

BrokenMan

whippet wrote: »

am I not reading this correctly?

"La grève n'aura lieu que les 2 et 3 juillet 2015."

my translation would say 'the strike will not take place on the 2 and 3rd july 2015'

The translation does appear correct but there is nothing on the unions website to confim this. Reading the full note via google translate I'd say there is a mistype and it should be the strike will now take place July 2nd to 3rd.

BrokenMan

Been reading up a little bit on this and the main bone of contention appears to be to do with a new proposal the french government have to submit to Europe on the 2nd. its to do with the Single Skies policy that the EU are trying to bring in to streamline air traffic control in Europe. The unions aren't happy with whats being proposed.

If I was to make a bet it would be that an agreement will be reached. I'm just basing that on the date the strike is called for being the same date the proposal has to be submitted to Europe.

grimm2005

whiskeyman wrote: »

For anyone with holidays booked, how does this play out if flights are affected?
Are you put on the next scheduled flight once the strike is over at no additional cost?
Or can the 'missed' flight be scheduled once the strike is over?

I was effected by strike action in December when I was over in Brussels. Basically Ryanair emailed me a couple of days before saying there is likely to be disruption and that I could either wait it out and hope it doesn't happen or I could book myself free of charge on any flight within 7 days either side of my original flight. I ended up booking a flight home a day earlier.

CelticRambler

whippet wrote: »

am I not reading this correctly?

"La grève n'aura lieu que les 2 et 3 juillet 2015."

my translation would say 'the strike will not take place on the 2 and 3rd july 2015'

The strike will only take place on the 2nd and 3rd of July.

@BrokenMan - yes, that's the official position, but it is also as you observed earlier: striking in France is a national past-time and any change is opposed by either the Left or the Right, regardless of whether it might actually be good for the country. (Which is why France's economy is in pretty much the same state as Greece, but that's a topic for another thread)

whippet

CelticRambler wrote: »

The strike will only take place on the 2nd and 3rd of July.

apologies .. I was taking the n'aura as a negative !

d'oh ... so back to crossing fingers

Curb Your Enthusiasm

I rang AerLingus and they told me the strike will not affect my Cork to Paris flight on the 3rd. Hopefully this is true!

CelticRambler

That level of certainty is a bit puzzling, unless they have some special arrangement in place, or the timing of the flight falls just outside the strike period. The unions depend on being unpredictable for their "success" - the previously mentioned Calais shipworkers have launched another wildcat strike again (yesterday and today, maybe longer). P&O is paralysed and several hundred people are stuck in the ferry terminal; the M20 in Kent and the A16 in France have been turned into lorry-parks. The industrial relations climate here at the moment is not good, so I don't know how Aer Lingus can be so sure they won't be affected ...

But like you, my son's flight gets in on Thursday morning. It's one of the first intra-European flights of the day, on a 'plane based in Dublin, so I'm hoping there won't have been enough time for the disruption build up.

Louche Lad

Negotiations have broken down so looks like strike is on: http://www.franceinfo.fr/actu/economie/article/greve-des-controleurs-aeriens-de-jeudi-et-vendredi-confirmee-699018

Curb Your Enthusiasm

Louche Lad wrote: »

Negotiations have broken down so looks like strike is on: http://www.franceinfo.fr/actu/economie/article/greve-des-controleurs-aeriens-de-jeudi-et-vendredi-confirmee-699018

no flights to CDG then? My flight leaves Cork on the 3rd!!

ifElseThen

April 73 wrote: »

Due to fly to Nantes on the 2nd July. Feeling nervous now.

We are due on that flight too. Hopefully it'll be delays at the most!

Ponster

Louche Lad wrote: »

Negotiations have broken down so looks like strike is on: http://www.franceinfo.fr/actu/economie/article/greve-des-controleurs-aeriens-de-jeudi-et-vendredi-confirmee-699018

Is this the final word on the matter? Or are talks still going on today? Due to fly tomorrow for four days and I'm holding off telling the kids they might not be going to Disney after all

Curb Your Enthusiasm

Ponster wrote: »

Is this the final word on the matter? Or are talks still going on today? Due to fly tomorrow for four days and I'm holding off telling the kids they might not be going to Disney after all

I rang Aer Lingus again this morning, and they told me not to worry. The guy said at most there would be a few delays. He said Head Office had sent them a memo this morning stating this.

Leroy42

Slightly OT, but Aerlingus online are totally useless on this. Ryanair has it on their website and you can contact them on twitter with your flight number to check out delays etc.

Apart from calling them, Aerlingus seem to have nothing mentioned at all.

Ponster

About 50% of flights were delayed/cancelled last time so I'm not sure about there being little impact unless they know something that the media doesn't.

Air France expect to know this afternoon which of their flights will be impacted.

CelticRambler

Ponster wrote: »

Is this the final word on the matter? Or are talks still going on today? Due to fly tomorrow for four days and I'm holding off telling the kids they might not be going to Disney after all

Off topic, but relevant to children and Paris: be advised that France is experiencing a heatwave at the moment, with temperatures currently around 35°C in the shade, forecast to reach 40°C in the next few days. The Ile de France (where Disney is) is also subject to a new alert for violent electrical storms tomorrow.

To put things in context, the lowest overnight temperatures here at the moment are the highest forecast for Ireland in the coming week (or in any summer!)

Back on topic, no that's not the final word: there's a European ATC teleconference scheduled for 2pm Irish time when slots will be allocated. Still don't understand how Aer Lingus already know the outcome of those discussions! :pac:

jack_edson

Half of my family are getting to France via the ferry and have been completely messed up, we are flying and have the stress of not being sure what is happening. I feel your pain Ponster, it's a bit of a joke. The kids won't understand.


IT looks like the ATC strike may be resolved but France has jumped way down my list of holiday destinations.

BrokenMan

Strike has been called off.

whiskeyman

BrokenMan wrote: »

Strike has been called off.

source??

CelticRambler

French news? But the information is correct. Threat of strike was lifted about 45 minutes ago.
http://www.lemonde.fr/economie/article/2015/07/01/le-principal-syndicat-de-controleurs-aeriens-leve-son-preavis-de-greve_4666129_3234.html

And to stop it happening again:
http://www.keepeuropesskiesopen.com/ (brought to you by Ryanair)

whiskeyman

CelticRambler wrote: »

French news? But the information is correct. Threat of strike was lifted about 45 minutes ago.
http://www.lemonde.fr/economie/article/2015/07/01/le-principal-syndicat-de-controleurs-aeriens-leve-son-preavis-de-greve_4666129_3234.html

And to stop it happening again:
http://www.keepeuropesskiesopen.com/ (brought to you by Ryanair)

Brilliant!
That's a lot of hassle avoided so...