Controversial Plans for First Feis in Israel

Irish Praetorian

Oh this is rich, Feis being held in Belarus, Russia, China....nah that's fine...Israel....GET THE PLACARDS!!! :mad:

Son Of A Vidic

pmasterson95 wrote: »

Ah now boards doesnt like Israel. In fact criticising Israel is part of the hipster bible...

Posted @ 12:51PM? Embassy on an early lunch?:pac:

Herb Powell

Irish Praetorian wrote: »

Oh this is rich, Feis being held in Belarus, Russia, China....nah that's fine...Israel....GET THE PLACARDS!!! :mad:

A fine argument you have there. Please tell me more about how people have to seen being against every possible human rights violation under the sun before their grievances about the much more highly publicised, "western"-funded, systematic bullshhit occuring in Israel can be considered valid.

Irish Praetorian

Herb Powell wrote: »

A fine argument you have there. Please tell me more about how people have to seen being against every possible human rights violation under the sun before their grievances about the much more highly publicised, "western"-funded, systematic bullshhit occuring in Israel can be considered valid.

By all means - its called trying to avoid hypocrisy. You see, when you hold one set of people to one standard, and another to a different standard, it begs a very simple question - what are those standards in the first place and why should one group obey them if another group is permitted a free pass?

Carlos Orange

Irish Praetorian wrote: »

By all means - its called trying to avoid hypocrisy. You see, when you hold one set of people to one standard, and another to a different standard, it begs a very simple question - what are those standards in the first place and why should one group obey them if another group is permitted a free pass?

Does that mean you think the EU should have the same sort of sanctions against Israel that is does Russia?

darkpagandeath

TommyKnocker wrote: »

I would ask why you find it bizarre?

This is exactly the kind of action that was used to help end apartheid in South Africa.

I would support the BDS movement and the call to boycott Israel until they start to behave like the "democracy" they claim to be and treat all people equally. I fail to see anything bizarre about that.

Irish dancing helped stop apartheid....... Oh dear god... :pac::pac::pac:

Irish Praetorian

psinno wrote: »

Does that mean you think the EU should have the same sort of sanctions against Israel that is does Russia?

By all means, but then again, those sanctions would also need to apply to quite a few other states in the world if we were to avoid being hypocrites. At present, Russian actions however, appear to occupy a rather unique sphere.

wes

Irish Praetorian wrote: »

At present, Russian actions however, appear to occupy a rather unique sphere.

Expanding outside ones borders, is hardly unique, and Israel btw has been at it for the last few decades, so Russia is not at all unique.

If we are to follow your logic, the EU must drop sanctions against Russia, for expanding outside there border, and Iran over there nuclear program, as there not sanctioning every country the world over for similar transgressions. Sure we should drop sanctions against all Palestinians terrorist groups, as we aren't sanctioning Israel while we are it, can't be seen to be hypocrites.

Not a NSA agent

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

Posted @ 12:51PM? Embassy on an early lunch?:pac:

Thats far to subtle for the Israeli embassy. They would say something about how everyone on boards hates Jews and then delete the post so they could pretend it never happened.

pmasterson95

Not a NSA agent wrote: »

Thats far to subtle for the Israeli embassy. They would say something about how everyone on boards hates Jews and then delete the post so they could pretend it never happened.

And you think boards doesn't? You must be new here

Buona Fortuna

I don't dance.

Don't ask me.

Herb Powell

Irish Praetorian wrote: »

By all means, but then again, those sanctions would also need to apply to quite a few other states in the world if we were to avoid being hypocrites. At present, Russian actions however, appear to occupy a rather unique sphere.

Why does it always come down to this, though? It's a bullshhit argument, to derail any discussion.

It is no defence, in a court of law, to ask why others may or may not be punished for things they may or may not have done.

If all you can do is point and say "Look over there!" it does nothing for your point.

Irish Praetorian

wes wrote: »

Expanding outside ones borders, is hardly unique, and Israel btw has been at it for the last few decades, so Russia is not at all unique.

If we are to follow your logic, the EU must drop sanctions against Russia, for expanding outside there border, and Iran over there nuclear program, as there not sanctioning every country the world over for similar transgressions. Sure we should drop sanctions against all Palestinians terrorist groups, as we aren't sanctioning Israel while we are it, can't be seen to be hypocrites.

Well I'm not about to disagree with the dropping sanctions over Iran bit, particularly in light of recent events such as the election of Rouhani and rather positive moves on the part of the Iranians.

In regards regarding organizations as terrorist groups, well it varies on the circumstances doesn't it - I can't really begrudge any group that tries to resist an occupation, but then again, I don't think you resist occupation by blowing up a Jewish centre in another continent.

Russia on the other hand is a pretty unique case, expanding in other countries, annexing their territories and devolving into a petty dictatorship. In the same time-scale, the UN has had enormous difficulty so much as recognising that Palestine might actually be a state let alone a state with set borders.

Irish Praetorian

Herb Powell wrote: »

Why does it always come down to this, though? It's a bullshhit argument, to derail any discussion.

It is no defence, in a court of law, to ask why others may or may not be punished for things they may or may not have done.

If all you can do is point and say "Look over there!" it does nothing for your point.

No it's not a bull**** argument its a perfectly reasonable point - if you want to enforce your version of justice against only some people, then people have a right to ask, why am I being punished while he is not? If a member of the gardai arrested you for having a tail light out while ten cars driving past you didn't have any license plates on them, the very least you might do is go 'wtf'?

wes

Irish Praetorian wrote: »

Russia on the other hand is a pretty unique case, expanding in other countries, annexing their territories and devolving into a petty dictatorship. In the same time-scale, the UN has had enormous difficulty so much as recognising that Palestine might actually be a state let alone a state with set borders.

UN resolution 242 is rather clear on it actually, the occupied territories do not belong to Israel, and the ICJ's advisory opinion on the Israeli wall built on Palestinian land also back this up. Israel is no different than Russia, there both expanding outside there borders, and both using bull**** excuses to justify it.

So again by you logic, we should drop sanctions on Russia.

Herb Powell

Irish Praetorian wrote: »

No it's not a bull**** argument its a perfectly reasonable point - if you want to enforce your version of justice against only some people, then people have a right to ask, why am I being punished while he is not? If a member of the gardai arrested you for having a tail light out while ten cars driving past you didn't have any license plates on them, the very least you might do is go 'wtf'?

In that situation, you'd be unlucky. And I think that's the point. The Gardaí cannot catch everyone for every single thing, especially if they're dealing with someone at the time. It does not mean that having no tail light is suddenly ok.

steddyeddy

[Deleted User] wrote: »

What happens to Irish dancers in Tel Aviv that makes it dangerous for them and their families? Know a few who have been there and they thought it was a great spot.

Irish aren't always very warmly received in Israel.

Irish Praetorian

wes wrote: »

UN resolution 242 is rather clear on it actually, the occupied territories do not belong to Israel, and the ICJ's advisory opinion on the Israeli wall built on Palestinian land also back this up. Israel is no different than Russia, there both expanding outside there borders, and both using bull**** excuses to justify it.

So again by you logic, we should drop sanctions on Russia.

Here's another Security Council Resolution calling on Turkey to stop occupying Northern Cyprus - lets see how far that got.

Having said that, I don't want to mislead you and give the impression that I give much of a damn about what the UN says or think that its some kind of benevolent association with only impartiality and justice in mind - I suspect you already know that the reality is far different.

Carlos Orange

Irish Praetorian wrote: »

Russia on the other hand is a pretty unique case, expanding in other countries, annexing their territories and devolving into a petty dictatorship.

Not sure unique means what you think it does.

Irish Praetorian

Herb Powell wrote: »

In that situation, you'd be unlucky. And I think that's the point. The Gardaí cannot catch everyone for every single thing, especially if they're dealing with someone at the time. It does not mean that having no tail light is suddenly ok.

I never said it was OK, I said you would be entitled to ask wtf, and if such a case came to court and those 10 drivers were on your jury, you might doubly ask wtf.

Justice, done on the principle of getting only the popular targets that we are all happy to see hang (whatever the crime) is no justice at all.

wes

Irish Praetorian wrote: »

Here's another Security Council Resolution calling on Turkey to stop occupying Northern Cyprus - lets see how far that got.

Northern Cyprus is not part of Turkey either, again what there doing is not all that different than Russia either.

Irish Praetorian wrote: »

Having said that, I don't want to mislead you and give the impression that I give much of a damn about what the UN says or think that its some kind of benevolent association with only impartiality and justice in mind - I suspect you already know that the reality is far different.

The UN is the best we have, despite its failings, the fact reamain, Ukraine not part of Russia, Norther Cyprus not part of Turkey, and the Palestinians territories not part of Israel.

So again by your own logic we should drop sanctions on Russia as we aren't sanctioning Israel.

Just a little Samba

Irish Praetorian wrote: »

No it's not a bull**** argument its a perfectly reasonable point - if you want to enforce your version of justice against only some people, then people have a right to ask, why am I being punished while he is not? If a member of the gardai arrested you for having a tail light out while ten cars driving past you didn't have any license plates on them, the very least you might do is go 'wtf'?

It's whataboutery, plain and simple.

steddyeddy

steddyeddy wrote: »

Irish aren't always very warmly received in Israel.

And Israelis may not always be warmly received in Ireland. But by and large the history between us and Israel seems to have been pretty good, the whole Chaim Herzog link and so on.

I just think if parents of kids who like Irish dancing want to go there, let them. Portraying it as some endorsement of Israeli policy is trying to imply a motive that I suspect they really don't have, and they should not be pressurised.

Just a little Samba

Deleted User wrote: »

And Israelis may not always be warmly received in Ireland. But by and large the history between us and Israel seems to have been pretty good, the whole Chaim Herzog link and so on.

I just think if parents of kids who like Irish dancing want to go there, let them. Portraying it as some endorsement of Israeli policy is trying to imply a motive that I suspect they really don't have, and they should not be pressurised.

And if a rugby team wants to play in apartheid South Africa who are we to tell them not to? Am I right?

Irish Praetorian

psinno wrote: »

Not sure unique means what you think it does.

My point being, Israeli acquisitions follow the pattern of defensive wars and an inability to obtain a decent peace with the owner. Contrast the Golan Heights for example with the Sinai Peninsula.

wes wrote: »

Northern Cyprus is not part of Turkey either, again what there doing is not all that different than Russia either.

Secessionist activities includes setting up puppet states, or do you believe the Israeli-Palestine matter would be entirely resolved if Israel simply pulled out and a 'Jewish State of Palestine' took over?

The UN is the best we have, despite its failings, the fact reamain, Ukraine not part of Russia, Norther Cyprus not part of Turkey, and the Palestinians territories not part of Israel.

So again by your own logic we should drop sanctions on Russia as we aren't sanctioning Israel.

The UN is a disgraceful sham, a case of the lunatics running the asylum, a case of such absurdity that it can call for sanctions of Israel almost unceasingly, but cannot so much as muster up the wherewithal to sanction Syria.

And again I would stress the difference between the two, Russia has occupied another sovereign state less than a year ago, Israel has occupied some territories (that by rights ought to be a Palestinian state) for a fifty year period. Also I will remind you, Russia is not under any kind of UN sanction, simply what the EU and US dream up.

endacl

osarusan wrote: »

Does it have to be a politicised event?

Can it not just be a dancing and music event?

Indeed. Or a positive, and uniting one. Others have done similar, and were slated at the time, yet are now feted for their contribution to cultural progress and unity.

Irish Praetorian

Just a little Samba wrote: »

It's whataboutery, plain and simple.

It's applying double standards, no less and don't expect to not be called on it.

tradhead

Deleted User wrote: »

I just think if parents of kids who like Irish dancing want to go there, let them. Portraying it as some endorsement of Israeli policy is trying to imply a motive that I suspect they really don't have, and they should not be pressurised.

I don't think it's so much an endorsement of Israeli policy as indifference to it, for reasons that I really can't get my head around. There's been a huge amount of media coverage of the happenings in Israel and Palestine over the last year so regardless of motivation (as someone already pointed out, it's possible there is a monetary incentive to holding a feis there), I can't imagine that it would be something any intelligent person would enter into lightly.

endacl

keeponhurling wrote: »

Nobody's saying that this Feis will make any difference to Palestine,.

However, if Israel are constantly being boycotted for all types of events, then this would put pressure on them to reconsider their actions.
As said above, similar to South Africa, if everyone plays their part etc. it will start to put pressure on.

Mebollix. Israel are immune to criticism.

Just a little Samba

Irish Praetorian wrote: »

It's applying double standards, no less and don't expect to not be called on it.

No, it's whataboutery and lets call a spade a spade.