Speed checks frequency increasing 10 fold - conspiracy?

veryangryman

Reading an interview with a national figure about the way the country's recovery is but a figment of the imagination. Some substance with points about jobless figures being massaged with Job-bridge and high suicide rates etc.

Anyway one point really hit me. The current amount of revenue generators nicknamed "flash for cash" on the roads. I'm noticing same myself up and down the country. Mainly on Motorways too.

I appreciate that there are limits to be obeyed etc, but lads isn't this such an easy target/revenue collector. And where was this frequency during the first 3 years of this government? Why the sudden crackdown?

I was wondering where the catch was when PAYE and USC rates went down this year. :mad:

Is there anyone who knows their local cops well enough to see what the latest instructions are? It appears that ALOT of their time is being spent on chasing cars. In the case of the Motorways, its pretty hypocritical where they use them too given recent soundings from AGS. The 2 spots on the M6 that i've seen cops with hairdryers have zero reported casualties since they opened. Something is up.

whiskeyman

If you speed, you could get fined.

Not really a conspiracy...

One eyed Jack

Ha! I only clicked into this thread because I thought it was about spell checks and the number of grammar pedants on the internet increasing ten fold...

Nothing to see here folks, move along, move along...

veryangryman

whiskeyman wrote: »

If you speed, you could get fined.

Not really a conspiracy...

And about the 10 fold frequency of checks?

Bongalongherb

They don't give a sh!t about life, it's just a scam to get as much money from you as possible. If it was ever about life, then you would think the government would do something of help in regards to the very high suicide rate in this country.

It's all about the money.

kneemos

veryangryman wrote: »

And about the 10 fold frequency of checks?

You just made that up dude.

deise08

Would you believe i was just thinking something myself there this morning.
There's a stretch where a van would be once every month, two months.
Its been there three times already this week.
I drive it every day, in to and out of work. I've never seen it there so often.

5starpool

I've noticed them a lot more recently too. Has it not been privatised though, so the governement don't receive most of the money?

PARlance

Op, I think you're probably overreacting 5 fold

Mr Rhode Island Red

BUT WAIT!!!!

Garda has 5 letters,
Five is a number,
6 is also a number,
Do you know what else is a number??? Two.
Two is also a number,
Number has six letters
The word "six" has 3 letters,
Three is an odd number,
But what does this have to do with The Illuminati? I hear you ask...
LET'S FIND OUT!!!
Garda has five letters
The number 5 is an odd number and so is the number 3
There are 3 sides on a triangle
There are also 3 edges on a Dorito
A Dorito is shaped like a triangle.
Some Gardaí enjoy eating Doritos

Gardai equals ILLOOMYNUTTY CONFURMED!!!!!

keithclancy

There's hardly any speed checks in Ireland, even then its a big luminous van at the side of the road covered in yellow stickers.

The speed controls have a 10 percent tolerance while your speedo in the car also has a 10% tolerance.

I would say if you get caught then you were driving too fast anyway.

If it was a revenue generation thing would it make sense to have penalty points ... wouldn't they want you to stay on the road so they could 'tax' you some more ?

Captain Chaos

keithclancy wrote: »

The speed controls have a 10 percent tolerance.

Not true at all. People have been done for 1kph over the limit and it wasn't a 10kph limit either.:pac:

veryangryman

Captain Chaos wrote: »

Not true at all. People have been done for 1kph over the limit and it wasn't a 10kph limit either.:pac:

Perhaps it's more personal discretion of the guard. Most do give a roughly ten percent lee

keithclancy

Captain Chaos wrote: »

Not true at all. People have been done for 1kph over the limit and it wasn't a 10kph limit either.:pac:

You can get done for 1 km/h over the limit in any country, with a 10% tolerance.

oceanman

they don't give a toss about deaths on the road.....why would they? its just about revenue. the motorist has always been an easy target..

Aongus Von Bismarck

One of the things I like about living here in Germany is the lack of speed limits on certain sections of the rural Autobahn motorway network. Nothing better than testing the wonderful engineering prowess and performance of a good BMW while hitting the road early on a Saturday morning to go hiking in the mountains. Listening to a good podcast on the sound system, knocking off the cruise control, applying a sport mode configuration and really letting go.

Arrive at your destination, having a good solid hearty breakfast, and hitting those slopes for a few hours in nature. Wonderful.

ectoraige

veryangryman wrote: »

I appreciate that there are limits to be obeyed etc, but lads isn't this such an easy target/revenue collector.

I don't suppose pointing out that the GoSafe scheme costs more to run than it collects in fines would help change your outlook?

AlekSmart

Aongus Von Bismarck wrote: »

One of the things I like about living here in Germany is the lack of speed limits on certain sections of the rural Autobahn motorway network. Nothing better than testing the wonderful engineering prowess and performance of a good BMW while hitting the road early on a Saturday morning to go hiking in the mountains. Listening to a good podcast on the sound system, knocking off the cruise control, applying a sport mode configuration and really letting go.

Arrive at your destination, having a good solid hearty breakfast, and hitting those slopes for a few hours in nature. Wonderful.

Ah wouldya g'wan oua dah...EVERYBODY knows them Germans are no Craic at all...."Livin to work" n all dat....das rite innit ....innit....?

WE Irish on the other hand really know how to push the boat out !!!!

http://rsa.ie/en/Utility/News/2015/Statement-from-Ms-Liz-ODonnell-Chairperson-Road-Safety-Authority/

The RSA notes the release of figures indicating that the number of Gardaí in the Traffic Corps has fallen from 1,200 in 2009 to approximately :eek: 750 :eek: in 2014. This drop in Traffic Corps numbers is a very worrying trend.

A very worrying trend?...not since Emperor Hirohito described the Hiroshima Bombing as "The course of the War taking a turn,not necessarily to Japan's advantage" has there been such an understatement !!!

Grandeeod

Aongus Von Bismarck wrote: »

One of the things I like about living here in Germany is the lack of speed limits on certain sections of the rural Autobahn motorway network. Nothing better than testing the wonderful engineering prowess and performance of a good BMW while hitting the road early on a Saturday morning to go hiking in the mountains. Listening to a good podcast on the sound system, knocking off the cruise control, applying a sport mode configuration and really letting go.

Arrive at your destination, having a good solid hearty breakfast, and hitting those slopes for a few hours in nature. Wonderful.

Indeed! I often enjoyed lashing down an autobahn here and there, before sloping off to a more rural place like Guttersloh, to enjoy a real hearty breakfast in an amazing cafe. However, I found banging down the GC1 or TF1 in the Canary Islands much more fun because the people tended to be less fecking anal than Germany! I also drove a real state of the art Seat Alhambra at full tilt and it tended to be a smooth ride as I passed German tourists in a VW Polo!

Valetta

Bongalongherb wrote: »

They don't give a sh!t about life, it's just a scam to get as much money from you as possible. If it was ever about life, then you would think the government would do something of help in regards to the very high suicide rate in this country.

It's all about the money.

oceanman wrote: »

they don't give a toss about deaths on the road.....why would they? its just about revenue. the motorist has always been an easy target..

Bit harsh.

veryangryman

ectoraige wrote: »

I don't suppose pointing out that the GoSafe scheme costs more to run than it collects in fines would help change your outlook?

Not with where they are putting in the vast vast majority of the checks. It maximises their income to do it on Dual Carriageways/Motorways.

If they didn't care bout making money, why not do it where fatal accidents are happening. As i said earlier, i have never heard of a fatal collision on M6 east of the Shannon

anncoates

Seems like a excellent fiscal policy.

Generate wealth based on a form of income collection that people can completely avoid by simply observing the law.

What could go wrong?

_Brian

5starpool wrote: »

I've noticed them a lot more recently too. Has it not been privatised though, so the governement don't receive most of the money?

The few regular positions round here are quieter now than ever.. Where I would usually see vans parked weekly, now I'd say its three weeks since they have been there.. I can think of four locations I pass near daily and the vans are less evident there..

jimgoose

Aongus Von Bismarck wrote: »

One of the things I like about living here in Germany is the lack of speed limits on certain sections of the rural Autobahn...

I wholeheartedly agree with all this, except the "hiking in the mountains" bit because I'm a lazy sod! I believe that certain sections of the German body-politik are doing their best to speed-limit the entire autobahn network, so enjoy it while it's there - the Black Autobahn mightn't last, unfortunately.

The Backwards Man

I met three postmen on my trip to town this morning. Last week I only met one. Ergo, there's three times as many postmen on the road.

sbsquarepants

deise08 wrote: »

Would you believe i was just thinking something myself there this morning.
There's a stretch where a van would be once every month, two months.
Its been there three times already this week.
I drive it every day, in to and out of work. I've never seen it there so often.

Passed one 3 times this week, on a 250m stretch of dual carriageway between traffic lights, fenced on both sides, no pedestrians (there's a pedestrian bridge) straight as an arrow - you'd basically have to try to crash.
These vans are all about getting the cash in and absolutely nothing to do with saving lives.

jimgoose

The Backwards Man wrote: »

I met three postmen on my trip to town this morning. Last week I only met one. Ergo, there's three times as many postmen on the road.

Obviously. I haven't seen any spherical cows yet, but at this rate it's only a matter of time. :pac:

veryangryman

anncoates wrote: »

Seems like a excellent fiscal policy.

Generate wealth based on a form of income collection that people can completely avoid by simply observing the law.

What could go wrong?

Foreign Regs
Garda time used up

Thats 2 off the top of my head

Ed_Stephens

The cost of an accident is huge and more when someone is killed, not to mention the human cost, see those big insurance premium hikes?

But sure a few k over the limit is grand and I was only only on the phone for a minute etc etc etc.

I don't know how much speed fines get in but if I needed more money easily I would jus raise motor tax again. Easy.

Ed_Stephens

The cost of an accident is huge and more when someone is killed, not to mention the human cost, see those big insurance premium hikes?

But sure a few k over the limit is grand and I was only only on the phone for a minute etc etc etc.

I don't know how much speed fines get in but if I needed more money easily I would jus raise motor tax again. Easy.

hardCopy

I'd guess they just have more man-hours to spend on traffic enforcement as the first batch of new recruits have come on stream. Overtime was slashed massively a few years ago and seems to be back now.

eamonnq

Why don't they just put cameras on the bus lanes and fine everyone that uses them illegally ?

crc

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Passed one 3 times this week, on a 250m stretch of dual carriageway between traffic lights

So it wasn't a motorway. In which case several other classes of vulnerable road users could have been using the road at the same time (specifically cyclists, low-cc motorcyclists, farm vehicles - all of which are entitled to use non-Motorway roads); no excuse to exceed the posted speed limit. Public roads are not private playgrounds for petrol heads. Try Mondello.

anncoates

veryangryman wrote: »

Foreign Regs
Garda time used up

Thats 2 off the top of my head

If I only I could avoid paying USC and property tax by not driving like a cnut.

veryangryman

anncoates wrote: »

If I only I could avoid paying USC and property tax by not driving like a cnut.

Ah the holier than thou brigade. How are you today? Sorry for being such a lunatic on the Dual Carriageways. Turns out there's hundreds of thousands of us there. If i were you, id grab my bulletproof jacket and hide under a tree - its not safe out there for you.

anncoates

veryangryman wrote: »

Ah the holier than thou brigade. How are you today? .

Grand, cheers.

Having a spot of lunch between meetings and soaking up some rays.

You?

sbsquarepants

crc wrote: »

So it wasn't a motorway. In which case several other classes of vulnerable road users could have been using the road at the same time (specifically cyclists, low-cc motorcyclists, farm vehicles - all of which are entitled to use non-Motorway roads); no excuse to exceed the posted speed limit. Public roads are not private playgrounds for petrol heads. Try Mondello.

I'm certainly not a petrol head. I drive this stretch twice every day on my way to and from work - you'd be blessed to get through without having to stop at every set of lights, you'd never, ever get through 2 in a row. There is no dangerous speeding on this road per se - it's more or less impossible. In maybe 3 or 4 kms of dual carriageway there's about a dozen sets of traffic lights.
What you do get however are loads of perfectly safe drivers momentarily going faster than an extremely low speed limit as they travel in 2 or 3 hundred metre bursts - in other words fine fodder.
That's not an isolated case everyone is aware of dozens and dozens of these "traps"

TheDoc

At a lazy guess it would appear to me that there is more presence of the traffic corp on the roads operating checkpoints and speedchecks, and there is more of those speedvans operating.

However they operate in areas that are not known "incident spots" and instead I see them on routes and roads where there is a fluctuating speed limit (ie Road goes from 100 to 80 for like 200 yards then back to 100) and on busy roads with unusual speed limits.

There is one frequently at the intersection on the Malahide road, at the traffic lights by Kinsealy. If coming from Malahide as you come around the Castle the limit is 60kmph, and then it changes to 50kmph for a "residential "zone, as there is some houses sporadically on the sides of the road. It's a frequently known spot that everyone crawls down to snails pace, but no one is actually clear on the speed limit of that area, as there is no signposting. Its like an urban myth that developed.

The same van typically moves further up the road around near the Applegreen on your way to Coolock.

On my way home from work I used to take the offramp to join the N2 before going onto the M50. The road is 100kmph and then dips to 80kmph for 200 yards, before going back to 100kmph. Van is frequently at the point where the speed dips. It's a three lane duel carriageway, that then goes four lanes, I've never seen an incident at this section, but they are always there.

Obviously you would never get confirmation or concrete facts that would highlight any sort of dodgy behavior, but I get the distinct impression that speed vans and checkpoints are being setup with high emphasis on revenue generation, rather then accident prevention.

I know a few roads around Fingal that are notoriously dangerous, that never once have I seen a checkpoint or speedvan, or even Garda holding camera, but yet I've had a checkpoint exiting my housing estate, I've gone through a checkpoint mounted outside Woodies in Swords, and a rake of other stupid illogical places.

TheDoc

Ed_Stephens wrote: »

I don't know how much speed fines get in but if I needed more money easily I would jus raise motor tax again. Easy.

There is no public outrage over someone getting a ticket or a fine, and there is no political points to be lost from doing so either.

However there is tangible political effects from increasing motor tax. I wouldn't say they are in dire need of the money, it is just a handy little earner that no one really tracks, monitors or follows.

It's like the USC in some regards, a temporary measure brought in by the last government, is still there with the new one despite their claims it would be removed, because its a handy little earner. It's easier for a government to defend a tax once it is in place as opposed to introducing a brand new one.

TheDoc

5starpool wrote: »

I've noticed them a lot more recently too. Has it not been privatised though, so the governement don't receive most of the money?

A number of speedvans have been introduced by a private entity, but I believe its a tender, in that they pay a fee to the government in order to operate.

You will spot them mostly in areas of fluctuating speed limits and confusing sign posting areas, along with busy stretches of roads, since their only interested is revenue generation.

They have no obligation or contractual obligation to provide analysis that their placement is making the road safer, and as such are never present on well known dangerous roads or bends.

ectoraige

TheDoc wrote: »

A number of speedvans have been introduced by a private entity, but I believe its a tender, in that they pay a fee to the government in order to operate.

You will spot them mostly in areas of fluctuating speed limits and confusing sign posting areas, along with busy stretches of roads, since their only interested is revenue generation.

They have no obligation or contractual obligation to provide analysis that their placement is making the road safer, and as such are never present on well known dangerous roads or bends.

Wow, that's some claim. Who is this private entity, and do you have any proof, or is this just some random thought that popped into your head?

TheDoc

ectoraige wrote: »

Wow, that's some claim. Who is this private entity, and do you have any proof, or is this just some random thought that popped into your head?

Are you for real? It's been a headline issues since 2013.

GoSafe vans are present all around the country, and have been involved in a number of high profile cases regarding their operation and regulation and questions over their actual impact.

The Guardaí outsourced certain hours of speeding monitoring and put it out to tender (due to the Guarda recruitment freeze) and GoSafe won the contract. They have a five year contract and operate both their own vans along with actual Guardaí ones I believe.

Their contract is due to expire shortly, where I'd imagine another tender will be put out to the private sector.

Go Safe signed an €80m contract with An Garda Síochána in 2009 to operate a fleet of vans which work alongside the vans operated by gardaí themselves.

They came really to the fore in December last year when a Monaghen judge dismissed all cases regarding GoSafe vans, and indicated he would not prosecute any driver brought up on charges linking from a GoSafe Van. He said their purposefully placement in zones with quickly fluctuating speed limits brought the law into disrepute, and there was massive issues with the chain of evidence and how summonses were brought about.

Justice Minister confirmed a report was requested from the Guardaí on the GoSafe vans operation to highlight any issues, never actually heard if anything came out of that.

Guy:Incognito

Captain Chaos wrote: »

Not true at all. People have been done for 1kph over the limit and it wasn't a 10kph limit either.:pac:

Have they? Has anyone ever shown proof of that?
Considering the huge amount of **** posted everyday, I'm frankly amazed I havnt seen a photo of the fine on Facebook.

TheDoc

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Have they? Has anyone ever shown proof of that?

Yes.

Unlike the UK, where they have a 10% tolerance, there is no tolerance built into the law here, nor by the operations by Guardaí monitoring traffic speeds by handheld camera, by stationary camera, Guardaí operated vans or the GoSafe vans.

I'd imagine there is probably situations where a Guardaí operating a handheld or stationary camera will oversee a 1kmph limit, but the fixed cameras don't allow tolerances afaik. If so, it's not written down anywhere and must be an unwritten rule.

My mother received a fine and penalty points a few years ago, with the notice indicating she was doing 62kmph in a 60kmph zone near Finglas. My Da is usually good and filing stuff like that away, will ask him over the weekend if he still has it and I'll share a picture.

Guy:Incognito

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Passed one 3 times this week, on a 250m stretch of dual carriageway between traffic lights, fenced on both sides, no pedestrians (there's a pedestrian bridge) straight as an arrow - you'd basically have to try to crash.
These vans are all about getting the cash in and absolutely nothing to do with saving lives.

Must be why theres never any crashes on the M50.

TheDoc

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Must be why theres never any crashes on the M50.

In fairness M50 crashes (being a daily commuter and dealing with the chaos every second day) is down to poor driving and awareness in my view. You can see it yourself, people totally unaware of how to safely drive on the M50.

Moving lanes without checking mirrors and indicating when they are half way into the next lane, tailgating, impatience, you name it. The M50 is the perfect test case for bad driving, all they need is to plonk a roundabout on it and it would anarchy.

I've seen one speedvan in two years of doing the daily commute, one. I've noticed more Garda Corps SUV's and Cars going up and down it lately, but have literally seen first hand how they seem to not spot or catch clear incidents of speeding or wreckless driving.

Although unsure if it's a "urban myth" but heard from some people before, that Guardaí are reluctant to write you up for speeding unless they have clocked you on a camera, as its left open to interpretation. They would be acting on "suspicion of speeding" which is only actually verifiable by a speeding camera.

Can anyone debunk that myth? I remember going through town doing 60 and stopping at a red light. Guarda car pulled up beside me and rolled down the window and asked what I was playing at doing 60. Replied I was under the impression the speed limit was 60 as it was the last speed sign I had seen.

Called me a clown and where was I from that a residential area was 60kmph (wasn't residential) and when I said I'd been driving that route a year and never saw a 50kmph sign ever, he just told me to slow down and drove off. Kinda reinforced my thoughts that the myth was maybe true, as he only seemed certain I was over the limit when I admitted it. (And I've still never checked what the limit on that road is)

veryangryman

Before we go into a tangent and treat the M50 as an example of ANY Motorway in the country..

Im talking about M6, M8, stretches of Motorway where the traffic count is such that it isn't even a fraction as dangerous to go a little over the limit. If/when accidents are happening every other day on these roads then yeah ill say "well done gardai, a productive job done".

M50 of course needs to be policed as much if not more. 100,000 odd vehicles per day in some sections, narrower lanes than other motorways. Yes completely agree with rules on that.

View

The law on this is straight forward. You are required to drive within the speed limit (irrespective of how right or wrong you personally believe it to be on any given stretch of road).

If you choose not to, then you are - basically - volunteering to pay speeding fines.

That's your prerogative, of course, but don't expect those who choose to avoid speeding fines by observing the speed limits to be upset that you are stupid enough to volunteer to pay speeding fines that you could easily avoid.

veryangryman

View wrote: »

The law on this is straight forward. You are required to drive within the speed limit (irrespective of how right or wrong you personally believe it to be on any given stretch of road).

If you choose not to, then you are - basically - volunteering to pay speeding fines.

That's your prerogative, of course, but don't expect those who choose to avoid speeding fines by observing the speed limits to be upset that you are stupid enough to volunteer to pay speeding fines that you could easily avoid.

I would agree to this if there was a speed check on every single stretch of road and a history of regular speed checks. There isnt, so i dont.

And as for volunteering, my "volunteer" efforts are ignored if there is no gosafe van or hairdryer. Like in football where a player is offside when the ref says he is and under no other condition.

heybaby

The inconsistency with which speed traps are deployed nationwide has always bugged me, not least because drivers speed up once beyond them but also because it facilitates the "garda are just shooting fish in a barrel " argument.

As has previously been mentioned, don't speed and you won't get fined. However I believe garda holding speed guns are utterly useless as far as the changing the national pastime of speeding is concerned. It's also a total waste of vital manpower. At some point economies of scale and a tad bit of common sense will enable tamper proof GPS monitors to be installed in all cars which will track everything the driver does. This, I believe will be 1000 times more effective than the current wholly inadequate system. The beauty will be that there will be no way out of it.

Until technology saves drivers from themselves it'll be up to drivers to stick to common sense and slow down.

TheDoc

View wrote: »

The law on this is straight forward. You are required to drive within the speed limit (irrespective of how right or wrong you personally believe it to be on any given stretch of road).

If you choose not to, then you are - basically - volunteering to pay speeding fines.

That's your prerogative, of course, but don't expect those who choose to avoid speeding fines by observing the speed limits to be upset that you are stupid enough to volunteer to pay speeding fines that you could easily avoid.

I absolutely love this attitude.

I could take you out around some roads where I live and literally guarantee you would break the speed limit on about five of them of the top of my head. As in absolutely guarantee you would break it.

Through no intention of your own, through no malaise or poor driving on your part, but through the simple fact that there are fluctuating limits where I live not sign posted, and on one road, the governing speed limit is actually signposted, about 2000 yards previously, when you exit a dual carriageway.

So the Fingal council recently confirmed after residents raised queries about getting sign posting. If left to your own judgement you'd assume the limit was 80kmph, if you were cautious you might think it 60kmph, but you need to go back two stretches of road to find the signpost that governs it, where it states 50kmph.

Nothing is as simply black and white as you seem to like to think it is.

Not every instance of breaking a speed limit is a case of bad driving or intention on breaking the limit, thinking so would be silly.