Eye of the Tiger Beer.

HelenAnne

Singer wrote: »

TL;DR I made a complete bollox of the half marathon.


Miles 1-3: 7'00, 6'43, 6'39

I started in the first wave, behind the 1:30 pacers. My vague strategy was to keep the 1:30 pacers in sight and see how things go.


Chip time: 1:36:02

That's a brilliant time, well done! I'm sure you don't want any advice from someone who finished a whole minute behind you, but I'm just chipping in on the running slow / pacing thing, because I, too, have been the 'running my long runs too hard / heading out too fast in a race' person.

When I was training for DCM 2013 I just ran my long runs whatever pace my clubmates who were doing the same distance that Sunday were doing them, so some were hard and fast (for me) and (luckily - but more by chance than planning) some were slow if I was running with slower friends. I didn't think it would make any difference in the marathon as I'd done fine in the rest of the race series (similar to you: sub 35, Sub 45, Sub 73, 1.37.xx), and I'd done a few 20-mile runs yada, yada, yada. Set out with the 3.40 pacers on the day (THANK GOD I didn't listen to clubmates telling me to aim for 3.30!!!) and died a death after 19 miles, crawling in in 3.54.

So what I learned was: run the long runs slow AND start the marathon slower than my hoped-for time and aim to run negative splits. The reason I'm sticking my oar in is that you and I took the opposite tack with the pacers on Saturday and ended up with similar-ish times, but I'd say my experience was more comfortable (I started with the 1.40s and finished in 1.37, you started with the 1.30s and finished in 1.36).

You were saying you don't want the slowing down thing to happen in the marathon (try to avoid it, it's awful!!), so do you think starting at a slightly slower pace than you'd planned, running within yourself for 19 or 20 miles, and then just trying to hold that pace for the last 6 or 7 miles would work? I think it could get you a quicker time than trying to hang on to a faster pace group.

Again, really well done on your time on Saturday. Sorry for sticking my 2 cents in, I just feel like the Ghost of Christmas Past reading your log and wanted to come in as a spooky apparition to give you the benefit of my 'experience'!

Singer

HelenAnne wrote: »

Again, really well done on your time on Saturday. Sorry for sticking my 2 cents in, I just feel like the Ghost of Christmas Past reading your log and wanted to come in as a spooky apparition to give you the benefit of my 'experience'!

HelenAnne wrote: »

You were saying you don't want the slowing down thing to happen in the marathon (try to avoid it, it's awful!!), so do you think starting at a slightly slower pace than you'd planned, running within yourself for 19 or 20 miles, and then just trying to hold that pace for the last 6 or 7 miles would work? I think it could get you a quicker time than trying to hang on to a faster pace group.

Coincidentally I was reading through this thread today...
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=88958765&postcount=76

I think there's not much there that supports going for 3:3x given my HM time and having a good time at the marathon - it's probably doable but with a good chance of blowing up and things getting grim. I think the my race plan is looking like start off around 8:40/mi (3:47ish), and speed up if feeling good after 18/20 mi for < 3:45.

I'll be keeping my remaining LSRs and easy runs at ~ 9:10/mi (maybe some faster miles at the end of the LSRs), hopefully some of the damage can be repaired

Thanks for the post, really appreciated!

Dubgal72

That was a perfect post, thanks Helen! Thanks to Singer too for finally letting me breathe a sigh of relief

Singer

Date|Distance|Pace|Notes
22nd September|6.75 miles|9'04|Out to Malahide and back... again.
23rd September|13.5 miles|8'14|Out to Portmarnock and back. 10 miles done at what I thought was around the fast side of PMP, but ended up being close to 8'00, so stuck with it. Some post-HM frustration was taken out in this run
24th September|9 miles|9'09|Run commute from city centre to Swords. Pretty sore shoulder at the end. Hit 1000 miles for the year in this run.
26th September|20 miles|8'57|LSR report on Novices thread. Pretty happy with this, niggles aside. The 4 fast miles at the end were relatively comfortable.
27th September|4.75 miles|9'42|Nice and slow recovery run around Swords. Felt very good for a day after an LSR.


Weekly total: 54 miles.

Next week: Last week before taper!:eek: *exciting* I'll probably do another 20 mile LSR, and maybe a longer & slower (actually PMP) mid-week run. Also visiting a physio for the first time - my shoulder is giving me a bit of pain during runs, and I have a slight burning/throbbing sensation on my left foot that I'm a little paranoid about due to an injury back on March.

menoscemo

Singer wrote: »

Date|Distance|Pace|Notes
22nd September|6.75 miles|9'04|Out to Malahide and back... again.
23rd September|13.5 miles|8'14|Out to Portmarnock and back. 10 miles done at what I thought was around the fast side of PMP, but ended up being close to 8'00, so stuck with it. Some post-HM frustration was taken out in this run
24th September|9 miles|9'09|Run commute from city centre to Swords. Pretty sore shoulder at the end. Hit 1000 miles for the year in this run.
26th September|20 miles|8'57|LSR report on Novices thread. Pretty happy with this, niggles aside. The 4 fast miles at the end were relatively comfortable.
27th September|4.75 miles|9'42|Nice and slow recovery run around Swords. Felt very good for a day after an LSR.


Weekly total: 54 miles.

That's a great week of training Singer. Excellent variation in paces between fast and slow depending on the sessions, much better than previous weeks . You are definitely doing well. I reckon 3;30 is a definite possibility.

Singer

menoscemo wrote: »

That's a great week of training Singer. Excellent variation in paces between fast and slow depending on the sessions, much better than previous weeks . You are definitely doing well. I reckon 3;30 is a definite possibility.

Thanks! I think I'm happy enough to leave 3:30 on the table, finish strong on the day and maybe even enjoy it

Dubgal72

menoscemo wrote: »

That's a great week of training Singer. Excellent variation in paces between fast and slow depending on the sessions, much better than previous weeks . You are definitely doing well. I reckon 3;30 is a definite possibility.

And we were doing so well with him :pac: I agree, I think he is capable of it but too much to go wrong if he can't pull it off on the day and I'll still argue that endurance is his achilles heel. If he starts off with the 3:40 pacing group, he should get 3:3x
Another cycle of training however......

Singer

Updated "plan" for the remaining weeks, includes actual mileage ran compared to the "plan" posted last month. Basically following the structure of the boards plan, with additional milage.

Dubgal72

Singer wrote: »

Updated "plan" for the remaining weeks, includes actual mileage ran compared to the "plan" posted last month. Basically following the structure of the boards plan, with additional milage.

Here's your lsr progression to date....but first:

Singer wrote: »

This week was lame aside from a good Fingal 10k

Date|Distance|Pace|Notes
15th July|6.66 miles|7'53|First day feeling good in a while, went out for a nice fast run!
16th July|5.75 miles|???|Ran naked aside from clothes. Didn't bring phone or anything. Not too fast, not too slow.
18th July|3.75 miles|8'07|A few short miles with strides.
19th July|6.21371 miles|7'00|Fingal 10k. Race report.


Weekly total: 22.4 miles

Next week: Back to the good old boards plan!

What happened to the good old boards plan, did it smell?!

Date|Length| Pace
13 June|13.2|8:33
14 June|13.2|9:31
21 June|19|9:32
22 June|13.1|9:18
27 June|Race|5m
12 July|13.2|9:28
19 July|Race|10k
25 July|18|8:56
1 Aug|17.5|8:43
8 Aug|14.2 novice run|9:59
16 Aug|20|9:09
22 Aug|Race|FD10
29 Aug|20.1|8:40
6 Sept|20|8:31
13 Sept|22|8:51
19 Sept|Race|13.1
26 Sept|20|8:57
3 Oct|22|planned


Just looking at the recent lsrs laid out there, i'm not sure a 22 is going to benefit you hugely. I'm thinking there's too much danger of stagnation. There is also the question of your foot/metatarsal...
Anyone with more expertise here please?

Singer

Dubgal72 wrote: »

Here's your lsr progression to date....but first:


What happened to the good old boards plan, did it smell?!

Just not enough milage!

Dubgal72 wrote: »

Just looking at the recent lsrs laid out there, i'm not sure a 22 is going to benefit you hugely. I'm thinking there's too much danger of stagnation. There is also the question of your foot/metatarsal...

The foot problem kind of went away once I booked a physio appointment Physio checked it out anyway, no problems.

Anyway, I did some deep soul-searching (and reading of the various P&D plans), and only the most ludicrous plan has a 22 miler at this stage. The rest have 20, so I'll just do that...

Dubgal72

Good news about foot!

That'll still give you 8 intense weeks on the trot but sure tis done now :rolleyes:

Do you want a hand with taper plans? We can concoct a plan especially for you and take in your need to run?!

Singer

Dubgal72 wrote: »

Good news about foot!

That'll still give you 8 intense weeks on the trot but sure tis done now :rolleyes:

Do you want a hand with taper plans? We can concoct a plan especially for you and take in your need to run?!

Oh definitely! I winged the plan above based on peak milage being around 50something, and doing a 20-25%, 40% and 60% (actually looks more like 70%) reduction in mileage for the 3 taper weeks. I wasn't sure whether to replace strides with MP running, it's a bit of an intensity drop.

Dubgal72

Have a look at this B, do any of the sessions appeal? We could work them into the boards schedule.

Singer

Date|Distance|Pace|Notes
29th September|9 miles|9'09|Extended route out to Malahide via Airside.
30th September|13.5 miles|7'52|Intended to be MP, ended up being a bit faster. Out to Portmarnock and back.
1st October|0.0 miles|0'00|The kids had colds and had been seriously disrupting sleep. I started coming down with the cold and was tired from the previous night's efforts so decided not to bother going out running and had a steak and wine with the wife instead
2nd October|5.4 miles|8'57|Opportunistic run from Beaumont to city centre in the afternoon. Was pretty much all downhill so easier effort than the pace suggests. Then went to the pub after work...
3rd October|20 miles|9'18|LSR, report on Novices thread. Pretty miserable due to hangover and cold in full on mode. Pace when running was around 9'00-9'10 but was liberally pausing to drink, dawdled at traffic lights etc. Last few miles felt worthwhile, but didn't feel as drained afterwards compared to other recent LSRs, so not really sure this was a quality session.
4th October|4.25 miles|9'25|Stroll around Swords.


Weekly total: 52.15 miles
September total: 207.8 miles
Next week: At least 20% less overall running, 100% less hungover running and 0% faster than MP running

Singer

Dubgal72 wrote: »

Have a look at this B, do any of the sessions appeal? We could work them into the boards schedule.

Yeh, I think replacing the strides over the next two weeks with the sessions described there sounds good! I'll do them so - many thanks!

Updated plan:

Singer

For fun, here's a dump of my total monthly milage:

Month| Distance| Notes
July 2013| 14.6 mi |There were some previous miles badly tracked by an iPod Nano pedometer that I discarded
August 2013 |8.3 mi|
September 2013 |1.7 mi|
October 2013| |6.9 mi|
March 2014| 25.1 mi|
April 2014| 13.9 mi |
May 2014| 16.1 mi |
June 2014| 6.8 mi |Chest infection.
July 2014| 31.6 mi |
August 2014| 54 mi|
September 2014| 59.3 mi|
October 2014| 23 mi |Non-running related medical condition
November 2014| 26.8 mi |Non-running related medical condition
December 2014| 34.3 mi |
January 2015| 68.3 mi |Plenty of gym work as well.
February 2015| 65.9 mi |As above.
March 2015| 36.7 mi |Injured foot after the Docklands 5k
April 2015 |53.2 mi |Injured foot for the start of the month.
May 2015 |124.7 mi |
June 2015| 146.1 mi |
July 2015| 145.3 mi |
August 2015 |206.3 mi |
September 2015 |207.2 mi |


And races:
Date| Race Distance| Time| Pace| VDOT| VDOT diff
July 20th 2014| Fingal 10k |10k |55:54| 8'59/mi |35.1| -
August 23rd 2014| Frank Duffy 10 Mile |10mi |1:30:12 |9'01/mi |36.3 |+1.2
September 20th 2014| Dublin Half Marathon |13.1mi |1:59:19 |9'06/mi |36.7 |+0.4|
February 1st 2015| Trim AC 10 Mile |10mi |1:18:21 |7'50/mi |42.8| +6.1
March 15th 2015| MSB St Patrick's Day 5k |5k |23:27 |7'32/mi |41.3| -1.5
June 18th 2015| Docklands 5k |5k |21:13 |6'49/mi |46.5| +4.2|
June 27th 2015| Irish Runner 5 Mile |5mi |35:52 |7'10/mi |45.1 |-1.4
July 19th 2015| Fingal 10k |10k |43:34 |7'00/mi |47 |+1.9
August 23rd 2015| Frank Duffy 10 Mile |10mi |1:10:30 |7'03/mi |48.4 |+1.4
September 19th 2015| Dublin Half Marathon| 13.1mi |1:36:03 |7'19/mi |47.3 |-1.1

Singer

Taper time... Who are these other people in my home? What is this big screen in the sitting room? How come I'm not feeling tired in work all day anymore?

Date|Distance|Pace|Notes
6th October|6.75 miles|8'47|Swords to Malahide... yawn. Despite dozing on the coach before leaving at 9, it felt effortless and generally great!
7th October|9 miles|7'37|PMP run... if I was targeting 3.20? (To be clear - I am not targeting 3.20 ). 6 miles done at 7.30, and a few less fast miles.
8th October|7 miles|8'47|Run commute home... I stopped at 7 miles and got the bus from the airport back to Swords. Disciplined stuff :cool:
10th October|16 miles|8'29|Report on novices thread. Pushed a bit too hard at the end here? I got a stitch, my shoulder started getting at me and my left leg stiffened when I sped up, and I just didn't want to keep pushing so hard. Slowed down and things got a good bit better.


Weekly total: 38.8 miles

This week: As in the spreadsheet screenshot above (no more than 30 miles)

Dubgal72

Hi singer, you have 5m @ pace in the last week. Would you consider reducing it to three and throwing in some strides on another run, either the day before the marathon or two days before? I'm not sure two days rest in a row will suit you, what do you think?

Singer

Dubgal72 wrote: »

Hi singer, you have 5m @ pace in the last week. Would you consider reducing it to three and throwing in some strides on another run, either the day before the marathon or two days before? I'm not sure two days rest in a row will suit you, what do you think?

Makes sense!

I think I should be ok with the rest - I'll see how the 2 days off go over today & tomorrow Worst case I'll do 3 or 4 miles if my head is wrecked.

Singer

Date|Distance|Pace|Notes
13th October|4 miles|8'56|4 mile loop around Airside.
15th October|9 miles|7'48|Run commute home, a good one for once! My shoulder didn't get too sore with the bag. City centre to Swords, faster miles at the end.
16th October|4 miles|8'28|Should have been slower here... Tore off for a fast first mile, then slowed down. 4 mile loop around Airside.
17th October|13.25 miles|8'31|LSR report on the novices thread.


Weekly distance: 30.2 miles (D'oh!)

Next week: Serious amounts of not running



Might swap around Thursday & Friday and break up the rest days, but not gonna do any more than above.

jake1970

Singer wrote: »

Makes sense!

I think I should be ok with the rest - I'll see how the 2 days off go over today & tomorrow Worst case I'll do 3 or 4 miles if my head is wrecked.

How did the 2 days off work out for you? I would agree with Dubgal that 2 days off before the marathon with the mileage you have been doing might not suit, i know my head would be wrecked if i had 2 days off.

Singer

jake1970 wrote: »

How did the 2 days off work out for you? I would agree with Dubgal that 2 days off before the marathon with the mileage you have been doing might not suit, i know my head would be wrecked if i had 2 days off.

Ha

It's actually been totally fine. I usually run around 9 at night, so I've just been winding down watching TV, generally taking it easy and getting to bed early. I could get used to this not-running lark.... nah

Singer

Quietest week since starting the log for some reason

Date|Distance|Pace|Notes
19th October|4 miles|9'07|Slow loop around Airside.
21st October|6.5 miles|8'20|3 miles at 8'00. Out to Malahide and back.
22nd October|3.33 miles|9'01|Slow miles around Rivervalley and back.
25th October|2.35 miles|8'16|A couple of nervous miles. Wasn't watching pace.


Weekly distance: 16.2 miles

Next week: Just the marathon.

718 miles in 18 weeks. Hopefully that's enough

dintbo

Best of luck tomorrow Singer!

Dubgal72

Singer, you are going to have a really great run. You are going to say to me afterwards, 'see, I was right!'

Just START SLOW. PLEASE START SLOW!! Start at 3:38 pace and work your way down if it is all comfortable. Any pinch, any pinch at all, rein the pace back.

Singer

dintbo wrote: »

Best of luck tomorrow Singer!

Thanks! Maybe see you after?

Singer

Dubgal72 wrote: »

Singer, you are going to have a really great run. You are going to say to me afterwards, 'see, I was right!'

Just START SLOW. PLEASE START SLOW!! Start at 3:38 pace and work your way down if it is all comfortable. Any pinch, any pinch at all, rein the pace back.

Yes boss! Sure I won't be able to show my face around mile 22 if I don't

tipping

Best of luck tomorrow.

jake1970

Best of luck tomorrow

yaboya1

Best of luck tomorrow Singer.
Once you don't start off too fast, you should run an excellent debut.
Enjoy!

Singer

tipping wrote: »

Best of luck tomorrow.

Thanks!

jake1970 wrote: »

Best of luck tomorrow

And thanks again! Hopefully I'll be into McGrattan's 13 minutes after you arrive

yaboya1 wrote: »

Best of luck tomorrow Singer.
Once you don't start off too fast, you should run an excellent debut.
Enjoy!

Cheers!

Singer

Singer wrote: »

Here's this year's goals in rough order of importance:

1. Complete the DCM.
2. Race all the DCM Race Series.
3. Same as 1., but < 4:00:00
4. Fingal 10k < 45:00
5. Half-marathon < 1:45:00
6. Irish Runner 5m < 37:30
7. Frank Duffy 10m < 1:17:30

1. Done.
2. Done.
3. Done. 3:32:03
4: Done. 43:34
5: Done. 1:36:03
6: Done. 35:52
7: Done. 1:10:30 (my best race, even though I reckoned it was the least important!)

:D:D:pac::pac::pac::):):):cool:;)

Rest of 2015:

5K < 20

2016:

???

Ososlo

Congratulations! What a time for your first marathon!!!!
Absolutely delighted for you Singer!

Dubgal72

I know, he's got great things ahead, hasn't he Os?! And behind too by that record there You rock!

dintbo

Fantastic stuff Singer. Well done .

tipping

Great stuff, delighted to see all the hard work paid off.

annapr

Fantastic time for you B, really well done again !!!

Murph_D

Terrific debut, B, well done indeed.

Bungy Girl

Impressive debut, lots more to come there I suspect. You're going to have 'SLOOOOOW DOOOOWWWN' ringing in your ears for the rest of your days though

Singer

dintbo wrote: »

Fantastic stuff Singer. Well done .

Thanks

tipping wrote: »

Great stuff, delighted to see all the hard work paid off.

Thank you!

annapr wrote: »

Fantastic time for you B, really well done again !!!

Muchas gracias!

Murph_D wrote: »

Terrific debut, B, well done indeed.

Cheers!

Bungy Girl wrote: »

Impressive debut, lots more to come there I suspect. You're going to have 'SLOOOOOW DOOOOWWWN' ringing in your ears for the rest of your days though

Ta

Maybe the lesson learned here is that I'm a serial sandbagger

hego

Well done Singer, great running! It was really impressive how consistent your training was over the last few months, and you reaped the rewards on race day. Well done as well to my clubmate dubgal for keeping you on the straight and narrow :-)

Singer

hego wrote: »

Well done Singer, great running! It was really impressive how consistent your training was over the last few months, and you reaped the rewards on race day. Well done as well to my clubmate dubgal for keeping you on the straight and narrow :-)

Thanks!

Haha, awesome I guess Dublin's only so big...

annapr

Loved the report, B... but can't believe you were actually tracking yourself on your phone!! and reading texts

... also you fainted in McGrattan's?? how did I miss that drama!?

jake1970

Well done yesterday B, great report.

Singer

annapr wrote: »

Loved the report, B... but can't believe you were actually tracking yourself on your phone!! and reading texts

... also you fainted in McGrattan's?? how did I miss that drama!?

I was away chatting to DG at the pool tables, then I went off to join the table at the back... and didn't quite make it. It has made for a great marathon war story to tell people though - "Yeh, really happy with my time... though I lost 3kg and feinted in the pub!!!". :pac:

jake1970 wrote: »

Well done yesterday B, great report.

Thanks! Great report from you too

Singer

Date|Distance|Pace|Notes
26th October|26.2 miles|8'06|:)
30th October|4 miles|9'32|Legs no longer sore, so got back out Felt like a lot of effort for the pace. Left hamstring is stiff.
1st November|4.5 miles|9'09|This felt a lot easier, though still a bit tight on the left hamstring


Weekly total: 34.7 miles
October total: 145 miles

For posterity...
Initial Marathon Reaction: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=97513235
Marathon Race Report: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=97520120
Clearlier questions: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=97537001

Next week and beyond:
Following a recovery plan from "Advanced Marathoning", so more recovery miles for a couple of weeks, then some strides get thrown in and eventually a medium length run. Then Jingle Bells, and then probably a 5k plan from "Faster Road Running" to target the MSB 5k.

Dubgal72

And when are you joining a running club????

Singer

Dubgal72 wrote: »

And when are you joining a running club????

I've been thinking about this a bit since our chat

So my local club... it looks my times would be their best in all of this year's race series & marathon. :cool: :rolleyes: :pac:

So I'll probably drop into Clonliffe Harriers post-Jingle Bells and see what's what (or maybe do their 5k at xmas if it's on this year and chat to them then)

Singer

Life was doing some disrupting this week, but managed to get out 4 times anyway. Wayyy faster than required :rolleyes::o (where have I heard that before? ). I got a flu jab on Monday, and felt like crap for a few days. Ironically feeling lethargic before a run usually spurs me on to go out fast. My left hamstring was present at the start of my 10 mile but went away after a couple of miles... though it feels a little achey now :eek:

Date|Distance|Pace|Notes
3rd November|5 miles|7'50|Yellow Walls and back. Felt tired at the end.
5th November|6.5 miles|7'46|Again feeling grotty going out, ended up running a progression run (8'43,7'58,8'02,7'45,7'23,6'48).
7th November|5.25 miles|8'40|Up through Rivervalley, Airside and Holywell.
8th November|10 miles|8'23|Getting a little cold out there (went out at 8.20pm)... Out and back to the Omni. Plagued by light-less cyclists on the path, at least 5 of them heading straight for me at different times. Overcame some tummy grumbles, and felt really good in the second half. Was on track for 8'3x, sped up for the two last miles (8'00, 7'18).


Weekly total: 26.7 miles

Next week: Over in London for a couple of nights for work, so will bring along my running shoes for some sightseeing.

Singer

Damn hamstring is sore this morning and making walking slow and a little bit painful Dr. Google reckons it could be a type-1 tear.

No running for a few weeks so. Not sure I can get to a physio in the next couple of days but we'll see.