Non book reader and want book information/questions thread - No direct spoilers

Duffman'05

Yes/No question:

Given everything that has happened up to and including the finale of season 6, are there still any major potential spoilers that us non-book readers need to be fearful of encountering?

amos13

Duffman'05 wrote:

Given everything that has happened up to and including the finale of season 6, are there still any major potential spoilers that us non-book readers need to be fearful of encountering?

There is one quite big storyline in the books which hasn't been incorporated into the show yet. I doubt it will be, as I can't see how it would work at this point but you just don't know. My advice is thus: you now have 10 months without GoT which is ample time to read up on five brilliant books and learn about all the sidestories and clues to what has already happened/ what is coming.

EagererBeaver

I think it's pretty much guaranteed that storyline won't be happening.

awec

At this point book readers are in the dark as much as non book readers. Every storyline that exists in the TV show is now well beyond and/or pretty different from the current book story (or at least what I can remember of it).

amos13

EagererBeaver wrote:

I think it's pretty much guaranteed that storyline won't be happening.

The FAe storyline? Yeah I'm pretty sure it won't but with two seasons to go I still wouldn't mention it to the non bookies

EagererBeaver

amos13 wrote: »

The FAe storyline? Yeah I'm pretty sure it won't but with two seasons to go I still wouldn't mention it to the non bookies

Yeah. Mummer's dragon and all that.

Vojera

Does the Iron Bank ever come a-knocking in the books? They featured quite heavily for a few episodes (Stannis getting a loan, Olenna telling Tywin that the Iron Bank would get their money back eventually), but they haven't been mentioned since.

Daith

Vojera wrote: »

Does the Iron Bank ever come a-knocking in the books? They featured quite heavily for a few episodes (Stannis getting a loan, Olenna telling Tywin that the Iron Bank would get their money back eventually), but they haven't been mentioned since.

In the books a member of the Iron Bank is with Stannis so yes they seem to have a role to play

EagererBeaver

Daith wrote: »

In the books a member of the Iron Bank is with Stannis so yes they seem to have a role to play

they also stop funding the crown altogether, which indirectly leads to the surge of sparrows. Cersei arms the Faith Militant initially to wipe out the crown's debt to the Faith

Idu

With R+L=J confirmed on the show what would Jon's official second name be assuming R+L didn't marry(they might have)? Would it be sand for where he was born or still Stark because of who his mother is? I'm not a book reader but I am aware of a good bit of off show backstory so I'm confused as to why the assumption now is that Jon is an "official" Targaryen when he could just be a bastard by another name

wp_rathead

Still Snow afaik as a bastard rared in The North

amos13

Idu wrote:

With R+L=J confirmed on the show what would Jon's official second name be assuming R+L didn't marry(they might have)? Would it be sand for where he was born or still Stark because of who his mother is? I'm not a book reader but I am aware of a good bit of off show backstory so I'm confused as to why the assumption now is that Jon is an "official" Targaryen when he could just be a bastard by another name

Still Snow. He can't take his mother's name and he was raised in the North.

There's a reason why people assume he's Targaryen but you haven't explicitly asked for that...do you want an answer?

Idu

Sorry I meant Snow not Stark. I was wondering did the bastard names go by area of birth or house location of the mother. So would he be Sand(for Dorne, location of Tower of Joy) or Snow(for his mother)

I know why people think he's Targaryen but does his claim as a male bastard outrank Dany's I guess is what I'm asking? I'm basing this on the assumption that R+L didn't marry.

Maybe I'm missing something else so if I am please say

Sleepy

The backstory for the Targaryens in both the books and the Lore DVD extras has shown that they've frequently had bigamous relationships. It seems a bit of a Chekov's gun to show that it's possible Rhaegar and Lyanna were married.

amos13

No his claim wouldn't outrank Danys but that doesn't mean anything anymore since his claim as King in the north doesn't outrank Sansa but he still is.

We now have two possible situations with two foreshadowing:
R+L did marry, and considering the kingsguard were guarding him it's most likely they were, or
They didn't marry but he will be proclaimed king by his followers anyway as has just happened in the North.

Sleepy

His claim would outrank Dany's if Rhaegar and Lyana were married. The son of the crown prince comes before his siblings in the line of succession.

Conall Cernach

Aegon 1 did not have any legitimate claim to any throne of Westeros but he did have 3 dragons.

amos13

Sleepy wrote:

His claim would outrank Dany's if Rhaegar and Lyana were married. The son of the crown prince comes before his siblings in the line of succession.

We know that, we were discussing his claim if they weren't married.

BoJack Horseman

Do the books anoint Danny in the way the TV show does?

It's something I find perplexing...

Weren't the Targaryns tyrants?
They are essentially invaders of Westeros....
Annihilating whole cities with their dragons & subjugating all natives to their command.
Fast forward to the show and we have the pretty obviously nuts Danerys, inbred spawn of the also insane & inbred Aerys.

She isn't coming to Westeros as a liberator.
She is going there as a conqueror.
And in Westeros there seems to be zero desire evident for them to be back under the thumb of a dragon riding warrior-queen.

So.... Was it ever elaborated on in the books why erstwhile intelligent people like Varys & Tyrion are dead set on her conquering Westeros, when it doesn't seem to be to the benefit of Westeros?

The show is bigging her up as some sort of hero.... but she just seems like another mad conqueror..... does GRRM's writing share this?

Washington Irving

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Do the books anoint Danny in the way the TV show does?

It's something I find perplexing...

Weren't the Targaryns tyrants?
They are essentially invaders of Westeros....
Annihilating whole cities with their dragons & subjugating all natives to their command.
Fast forward to the show and we have the pretty obviously nuts Danerys, inbred spawn of the also insane & inbred Aerys.

She isn't coming to Westeros as a liberator.
She is going there as a conqueror.
And in Westeros there seems to be zero desire evident for them to be back under the thumb of a dragon riding warrior-queen.

So.... Was it ever elaborated on in the books why erstwhile intelligent people like Varys & Tyrion are dead set on her conquering Westeros, when it doesn't seem to be to the benefit of Westeros?

The show is bigging her up as some sort of hero.... but she just seems like another mad conqueror..... does GRRM's writing share this?

There are aspects of her character that do point to potential 'mad conqueror', but for the most part Varys and Tyrion (neither have actually met her yet in the books) would see her as a preferable ruler to the current Lannister/Tyrell shltshow, especially if she had the right councillors alongside her...

The Targaryen dynasty did get away with things like intermarriage/polygamy because of their power (after the death of the first king, Aegon the Conqueror, there was a crushed uprising from the Faith Militant as his son, Aenys I, was born out of incest) but generally the seven kingdoms prospered under their reign and nobody had any major qualms (or at least not enough force to rebel) until the Mad King. Just going from character POVs, the Targaryens seem to be looked at with reverence more so than being seen as foreign oppressors.

amos13

BoJack Horseman wrote:

Do the books anoint Danny in the way the TV show does?

Varys and Tyrion have never met her in the books. They throw their support behind someone else...who hasn't been brought into the show. Targaryans in the books are said to be 50% good, 50% bad. "When a targaryan is born, the gods flip a coin...". But Dany has mad queen glimpses and tendencies. She wants to be good but does so much bad sh1t in the quest to be good. (Eg. She crucified all the masters even though some of them were known to be good people who treated their "slaves" well and paid them). In any event, the realm generally prospered under targaryans, but has been in complete turmoil since they were overthrown, so it would stand to reason that people would support their return to power.

Tenger

The Targs could be compared to The Normans in England. Invaders in 1066, "foreign conquerers" for the next 100 years....200 years later seen as part of the nations history and revered.
The 7 Kingdoms had peace and stability under Targarygen rule for c.300 years. (Apart from the odd inter-royal family civil war and minor lord skirmish)
However that power had waned so much so that the last Targ king was even captured 20-25 before the TV show in a commoner revolt...The Defiance of Duskendale (perhaps partially to blame for his madness)
Roberts rebellions takes place approx 17-18 years before the show.