Anybody else here struggling with Japanese Knotweed?

recedite

Uriel. wrote: »

the Minister must decide to do so and give public notice of it.

This seems bizarre. Is there any particular reason why the regulation has not been given the go-ahead? Or is it just that the Minister forgot all about it.

my3cents

recedite wrote: »

This seems bizarre. Is there any particular reason why the regulation has not been given the go-ahead? Or is it just that the Minister forgot all about it.

Perhaps it's been pointed out the mess councils that have been making spreading JK through laziness and ignorance for years would cost a fortune to clean up if the regulations were enacted.

Uriel.

my3cents wrote: »

Perhaps it's been pointed out the mess councils that have been making spreading JK through laziness and ignorance for years would cost a fortune to clean up if the regulations were enacted.

Regulation 50 is about sale, trade and importation, so no the clean up cost is unrelated to this.

Uriel.

recedite wrote: »

This seems bizarre. Is there any particular reason why the regulation has not been given the go-ahead? Or is it just that the Minister forgot all about it.

Honestly, I don't know. Maybe it has something to do with the new EU laws on non-native species.

recedite

Also, I have just looked over the list and I think it may be overly zealous.
Spanish bluebells on it... these are the usual garden bluebells. Half the people in the country have them growing in their garden and probably every garden centre sells them.
As for fish.. carp, rudd, dace. Anglers and those who depend on tourism seem to like to see a selection of fish in the rivers and lakes. I have no objection to these.
There is no point having a law that people will ignore.

Uriel.

recedite wrote: »

Also, I have just looked over the list and I think it may be overly zealous.
Spanish bluebells on it... these are the usual garden bluebells. Half the people in the country have them growing in their garden and probably every garden centre sells them.
As for fish.. carp, rudd, dace. Anglers and those who depend on tourism seem to like to see a selection of fish in the rivers and lakes. I have no objection to these.
There is no point having a law that people will ignore.

The on in relation to carp has been subsequently amended and now excludes koi

And yes, I agree with you about the pointlessness of laws that are not enforced.

my3cents

Uriel. wrote: »

Honestly, I don't know. Maybe it has something to do with the new EU laws on non-native species.

I stand to be corrected again but from the JK point of view I wonder if its anything to do with land sales?

There are massive issues in the UK getting mortgage or selling property if JK is present.

Is it possible that selling land with JK on it is "exposing it for sale"? Bit of a stretch but just a odd thought I had.

Uriel.

my3cents wrote: »

I stand to be corrected again but from the JK point of view I wonder if its anything to do with land sales?

There are massive issues in the UK getting mortgage or selling property if JK is present.

Is it possible that selling land with JK on it is "exposing it for sale"? Bit of a stretch but just a odd thought I had.

highly doubt it... can't imagine the Government interfering with the housing market in such a way to be honest and I don't think that that was the intention of the legislation.

In my view, such an interpretation would never hold up in court, but as I say I couldn't see the government taking that view of the legislation in the first place.

People in that situation are not selling or offering for sale the JK, rather it is the property itself.

As I said, at guess, I suspect the delay is in relation to new EU Regulations - it seems that the Government were doing Risk Assessments on traded species - see here and maybe it all ties in with that.

Uriel.

actually I came across this article from 2013 which indicates that the national parks and wildlife needed to do risk assessments before banning the trade of species... that ties in with the previous link to the risk assessment project.

Before the 2011 regulation to ban the trading or keeping of problem species comes into effect, the government will first tender for an impact assessment on regulation 50. Consultation with the horticulture and pet and aquarium trades is also planned, a spokesman said, adding that this could take “some months to complete.

I guess they need to have a definitive evidence before interfering with legitimate business

lazybones32

my3cents wrote: »

There are massive issues in the UK getting mortgage or selling property if JK is present.

Was talking to a fellow horticulturalist recently and he said that a person probably won't get house insurance - and may have trouble selling the house - if there is JK in close proximity.

I rang the CC about 2 weeks ago to report a few patches of JK (some new 'blow-ins' and significant mini jungles). I was told to ring this dept., ring that dept., ring this man and when I finally got the man with responsibility (in the Roads dept.) he was out so my name and ph. no. was taken with the guarantee that I'd be contacted. Thank God I didn't hold my breath or depend on the call being returned.

recedite

You can see the list of the risk assessments here. Most seem to have been completed in 2014, I'm guessing the whole thing has been kicked to touch since then because people didn't know what the response should be.

The very first one on the list I know well, I eat it on sandwiches and people around my area have been eating it for as long as anyone can remember. Also it makes a nice garlic pesto thing if blended with pine nuts or peanut butter.
So here it is listed as an Irish wildflower on a different website, complete with its name as gaeilge. So that's a bit of a surprise to find its now suspected of being an invasive species threatening the whole country.

Then we have the carp, which the risk assessment admits was introduced hundreds of years ago (By monks AFAIK) Never been a problem. As for those other fish; the canals are full of them. Anglers are pulling them out all the time, and loving it.

Rhododendron... well what can you say. Everybody knows the basic variety is invasive down in Killarney and such places. It has already happened. You are not going to stop that by banning garden centres from selling garden rhododendrons.

Bluebells. An interesting one. I started looking at these about 2 years ago, and discovered that all bluebells growing in my garden and in the neighbours were Spanish hybrids, whereas in the woods nearby they were the native type. So I dug up all ours and composted them, then gathered some native ones and planted them instead, where they are growing well. Lets not think about the legal implications of this, but I'm glad to say that the intention of the EU directive has been successfully implemented in one small corner of Ireland. The problem for the native ones is that they hybridise with the garden ones, which are usually Spanish hybrids. But to be fair, the hybrid flowers are bigger and more showy, so I can't really see many people getting rid of them. The distribution map of the hybrid bluebells is complete nonsense. It shows them as being quite rare and the nearest sighting to me is about 50km away. Which is obviously down to under-reporting. After all, who is going to report a bluebell sighting to the authorities?

The likes of Zebra Mussels and most of those aquatic plants are examples of species which got established before anyone took much notice. Japanese Knotweed too I suppose. I think in the end, we are just going to get used to them. A piece of paper banning trade and intentional transport of them is not going to have much effect.

magicbastarder

random aside, mr middleton are having their autumn warehouse sale tomorrow. i sent a message on facebook asking would they have any wild garlic bulbs in stock. immediate response was "No we do not , its too much a weed", followed by "it's a danger in any garden unless you have 20 acres".
ah well.

Uriel.

Well the EU is going to start making us manage some of the invasive alien species now in any event. Considering the damage some of them cause I'm not surprised that they are being targeted. The problem of course is the lack of a genuine and coherent eradication plan to accompany the restrictions... Bodies on the ground, incentive schemes, carrot and stick are the only ways to deal with the problem. Won't hold my breath though.

lazybones32

Uriel. wrote: »

Well the EU is going to start making us manage some of the invasive alien species now in any event.

Dunno about that... Killarney NP would be viable as an UNESCO World Heritage site but it has never been opened for inspection because of the rhodo scourge. If the inspectors were to evaluate it, they would be highly critical of the Govt. (current and previous) for allowing our oldest and largest woodland to be consumed by rhodo and for not doing enough to correct the situation.

They still sub-contract groups to cut and paint the rhodo but nowhere near enough to even manage the plant. I know a guy whose outfit do a certain no. of acres but trying to judge, say, 4 acres on the side of a hill, or among the woodlands isn't easy. They show you they show you the map and the area you're being paid to treat but it's very hard to judge on the site.
Another system used was getting people to volunteer 2 weeks in Summer, to cut it down. The State would put you up in a hostel and maybe give you some food but when austerity came, the program was shut down. For a Country where environment is so important in the tourist trade, they don't seem to give a shi'ite.

Uriel.

lazybones32 wrote: »

Dunno about that... Killarney NP would be viable as an UNESCO World Heritage site but it has never been opened for inspection because of the rhodo scourge. If the inspectors were to evaluate it, they would be highly critical of the Govt. (current and previous) for allowing our oldest and largest woodland to be consumed by rhodo and for not doing enough to correct the situation.

They still sub-contract groups to cut and paint the rhodo but nowhere near enough to even manage the plant. I know a guy whose outfit do a certain no. of acres but trying to judge, say, 4 acres on the side of a hill, or among the woodlands isn't easy. They show you they show you the map and the area you're being paid to treat but it's very hard to judge on the site.
Another system used was getting people to volunteer 2 weeks in Summer, to cut it down. The State would put you up in a hostel and maybe give you some food but when austerity came, the program was shut down. For a Country where environment is so important in the tourist trade, they don't seem to give a shi'ite.

Tbh it's been very clear for a very long time that successive governments don't give two fiddlers about the environment... And this government has been the worst for awhile.

Spirogyra

One year one, being spraying it with 'Round-Up' which is controlling it. But it requires constant maintenance and eradication is a distant dream. What is noteworthy though is that it seems to have 'morphed' into a smaller, almost 'bush-like' shape, rather than tall and straight... It's wasteland but at least it's away from the house.

Markcheese

I burnt off the crowns in early spring..(after several doses of roundup the year before) Which left a flat surface and battered the plant a good bit more.. Mightn't suit where you are though..

Nekarsulm

Last year I sprayed few small patches along the roadside, between the home farm and an out farm, about 5 miles away.
The smallest two clumps have disappeared completely, and the bigger growth is very well reduced, but now I can see that it had spread through the hedge and is now confined to the farmers side of the hedge.

My problem this year is the constant wet weather, the time to spray has almost passed, and I've not got a chance to hit it on a dry day.

There are 3 biggish growths in Cavan town itself, that I'm going to spray on Saturday if its a dry day. Been eyeing them up all summer.

Cavan Co.Co. are useless. Last year I mapped every patch of knotweed along the road from Cootehill to Cavan town. That's about 18 miles, and I got the young lassie to note the co-ordinates on the Sat Nav, as a bit of practice for her.
Emailed the Council with the details, because they have a dedicated contact person for invasive species.
Absolutely nothing was done last year, nor this year to date.

NIMAN

Question: Can you burn it to kill it?

kylith

You can burn it but it won't kill it.

my3cents

NIMAN wrote: »

Question: Can you burn it to kill it?

Some people claim you can but I don't believe a word of it. The roots go so deep in most cases that you could burn for a week on the surface and there would still be more than enough living root for the weed to grow back.

Another issue with the wilder kill claims is that is is possible to knock back JK for a year so you can go a whole season without seeing it then it returns with a vengeance. I've seen that a few times with glyphosate application.

Edit> However you can burn the stems and roots if you cut them or dig them up to get rid of them. Not always effective if not done right as charred bits of root will still regrow so they have to be completely burnt which is not easy.

nedsgarden

I have taken to digging it out, put it in a barrel and it seems to grow away, put some in a barrel full of water and 3+ weeks later - still green - it's under the water ..

just not the year for spraying, serious dose of a plant .

Spirogyra

Danger in digging it up that you might spread it ....

nedsgarden

Spirogyra wrote: »

Danger in digging it up that you might spread it ....

I can find the thick black stems under the ground easy enough, i had a patch had a digger man in who spread it. Diggerman was a last minute event, not his fault, but i will do anything now to stop it, 2.3 hours every sat - hopefully.

Spirogyra

The Council widened the road here about 15 years ago and it was never here before then. Apparently Councils are widely responsible for spreading it. 'Contaminated' Equipment, take's only a tiny fragment on a wheel or a 'trailer' etc to spread it. I had no idea at the time, what it was or how 'dangerous ' it was, so 'took no action'.

my3cents

nedsgarden wrote: »

I have taken to digging it out, put it in a barrel and it seems to grow away, put some in a barrel full of water and 3+ weeks later - still green - it's under the water ..

just not the year for spraying, serious dose of a plant .

It will wash down streams, into rivers out to sea and across the channel then root were it gets washed up. I keeps on turning up in different places on our beach - I just keep spraying them as they grow. No chance anyone from the council will be walking half a mile along a beach to get to a clump of JK.

looksee

When you think that most digger contractors would not recognise JK, or be particularly bothered if they did, it makes you realise that you are in danger of introducing it if you get in a digger to do work on a new build etc. Other than asking the contractor had they been in contact with JK, which I doubt they would take seriously, there doesn't seem to be much you can do about it.

Outkast_IRE

There is a road between Glounthane and Glanmire in Cork near me. The council erected signage at the roadside to warn hedgecutters of Knotweed in the specific locations with the signs.

Last month the hedgecutters - Council employed i suppose cam along and cut all the hedges including the patches with the signs, and knocked most of the signs in the process.

If i was living adjacent to them i would be taking legal advise as they are spreading it themselves.

Markcheese

Outkast_IRE wrote:

Last month the hedgecutters - Council employed i suppose cam along and cut all the hedges including the patches with the signs, and knocked most of the signs in the process.

I think I know where you mean, wasn't that dead stuff..? It'd only be the green plant (and the rhizome root thingy) that should spread it..
Mind you bloody stupid to chop it anyway... Especially when it had warning signs..

Outkast_IRE

Markcheese wrote: »

I think I know where you mean, wasn't that dead stuff..? It'd only be the green plant (and the rhizome root thingy) that should spread it..
Mind you bloody stupid to chop it anyway... Especially when it had warning signs..

Dont think it was all dead, it was treated at some point i would say, but probably needed a follow on.