Couple of issues with rifle

dodderangler

Some of you will know my gun and I had a empty shell stuck in it a while back but put it down to cheap ammo.
Switched over to Remington 55gr and was grand.
3 week ago I got two boxes and headed out. First shot and it jammed.
So I got it out and gave the gun a good clean inside barrel and things were grand after that.
2 week ago I got a bipod. Dogs boll0x an all but other day I noticed the barrel had started to become loose. It's a floating barrel on it. Quite shaky and now no matter what bullets I use the gun won't eject the shells without a good smack of my palm and out of 20 bullets at least 6 were getting stuck.
So my issues are basically why are my casings not ejecting and why has my barrel suddenly become loose.

Buggs

If the barrel has come loose it needs tightening. Probably a job for a gunsmith or similar. I wouldn't fire it untill it tight.
when you took out the stuck case, did you put the gun in a vice?
Is the extractor picking up the case at all? Did you try cleaning the bolt face with a toothbrush or the like.

dodderangler

If the shell is stuck it won't grip it to pull it. But when it does grip them I have to actually give the bolt a smack with palm of my hand to pull it back and the empty casing flies out. So it no longer does the bolt just lift up and pull back. It lifts up but then I've to give it a smack with my palm.

Buggs

Are you using UMC ammo? if so try different bullet federal or hornady etc. The remmy's might not suit the gun. But as I said i wouldn't fire it until it is tightened.

Cass

First thing - STOP SHOOTING THE RIFLE.


Have you got pictures of the empty case(s)?

If the barrel is loose then the headspace is changed and the case has room to expand beyond the dimensions of the chamber. Frankly, and worse case scenario, it could lead to catastrophic failure. The reason i want pictures of the case(s) is to check for deformity in the head of the case.

When/if a barrel comes loose it basically (and i'm keeping this in as simple terms as possible) screws out of the action. The chamber of the gun (where the bullet sits into) is actually cut into the barrel. So if the barrel is unscrewing it's moving forward, away from the action/receiver. The distances are tiny, but in gun terms they are huge. So when you cycle the bolt it pushes the round into the chamber. If the distance is just right the firing pin can still give enough of a strike to fire the round, but the ejector claw cannot latch onto the case. Not enough to properly grasp it. Hence the reason you're not getting the empties ejected.

The other issue with all this, and the reason i said to stop firing the gun IMMEDIATELY, is the distance the barrel has "moved forward" must come from somewhere else. This somewhere else is the action. So this allows room for the head of the case to expand without limitation as the chamber is not longer "containing" the round. I have had this happen to me once. You can see in the pictures below the how unlucky and lucky i was. Unlucky that it happened, but lucky that the bolt and action held so i only got hit with some debris from the gas port on the side of the action and not a bolt through the head.

DO NOT attempt to fix this yourself. Stop shooting the gun and get to s gunsmith. I mean a real one and not some "expert" in a shop. Dom Byrne, Enda Walsh, etc. Someone that knows their sh*t and has the experience and tools to both measure and resolve this problem. Document everything and then go back to the dealer and explain what has happened. Also contact, or have them do it, Savage. If this is the problem i'ts a lethally dangerous one and needs to be highlighted.

gearoidol

+1 on what cass said above ,please take his advice,enda and the lads are not crazy money and its the only way of sorting it , in terms of both accuracy and more importantly safety.

juice1304

+1 on what cass has said, If the barrel has come loose some how which it shouldn't because savage use a barrel nut etc.. If you have an issue though get it looked at like he has said someone who has real experience with this and as said not someone in a shop. If there is a headspace issue it could be somewhat of a pipebomb quite literally.

Pkiernan

Headspace needs checking.

Schrodingers

As said DO NOT FIRE A SINGLE ROUND till it has been inspected

Is the barrel loose from the action or is the barrel and action loose in the stock ie are the action screws loose?

You have cleaned the barrel but have you cleaned any possible carbon from the chamber?

Take the rifle to a gunsmith and have them check the head space and borescope the chamber/barrel.

If there is no carbon in the chamber have them measure the chamber (not just go/no go check) and compare it to sammi spec tolerance for a .223 rem, if it is out of tolerance contact Savage directly and inform them of the problem with supplied chamber measurements/print, as much of an issue it is to you there maybe someone who can reload and end up seriously injured if there is a manufacturing problem with rifles of the same batch as your own

Can you post any pictures of the brass you fired??

Its possible that the chamber was cut undersized and the brass doesnt have enough space to expand upon firing hence why it is hard to eject.

Does the recoil seem excessive compared to other .223s?

deeksofdoom

If that's a new rifle you need to be going back to the dealer with it.

Cass

Any update on this?

tikkahunter

Get yourself back there because word is he is not going to be around much longer.If it comes to that milbro bring the axis into the country you might have some joy from them.

dodderangler

Cass wrote: »

Any update on this?

Apologies on this. I havint been out so havint really been thinking of it. I am leaving it in tomoro to be fixed. I won't be taking it back until it is in working order.
I just really havint had the time to take it anywhere with work and the gf pregnancy I'm a busy beaver right now.
The empty shells are indeed misshaped after a shot cass. The end edges of the casing are slightly bent after the shot.

tikkahunter

dodderangler wrote: »

Apologies on this. I havint been out so havint really been thinking of it. I am leaving it in tomoro to be fixed. I won't be taking it back until it is in working order.
I just really havint had the time to take it anywhere with work and the gf pregnancy I'm a busy beaver right now.
The empty shells are indeed misshaped after a shot cass. The end edges of the casing are slightly bent after the shot.

Did you drop it back to the shop or to a gun Smith?

dodderangler

tikkahunter wrote: »

Did you drop it back to the shop or to a gun Smith?

It's going to the shop and they can send it to a gunsmith or fix it but I only have it 4 months so it shouldn't have to be me sending it to a gunsmith.
I know I sound very blunt but I paid a lot of money for it so I shouldn't be the one to put more into it when I have it only 4 months.

tikkahunter

dodderangler wrote: »

It's going to the shop and they can send it to a gunsmith or fix it but I only have it 4 months so it shouldn't have to be me sending it to a gunsmith.
I know I sound very blunt but I paid a lot of money for it so I shouldn't be the one to put more into it when I have it only 4 months.

You defo shouldn't have to fork out yourself, I am just asking as I have heard it won't be around much longer, so it would be just something I would keep my eye on

dodderangler

tikkahunter wrote: »

You defo shouldn't have to fork out yourself, I am just asking as I have heard it won't be around much longer, so it would be just something I would keep my eye on

Really? Seems to always have it's fair share of customers in there whenever I go in. And the cafe there always has a good few people in it aswell.

lanber man

dodderangler wrote: »

Really? Seems to always have it's fair share of customers in there whenever I go in. And the cafe there always has a good few people in it aswell.

Was there today and they couldn't give me €6.01 change. Was told the location just isn't great for business. It'll take a lot of coffees to pay for an rfd and all the other gear they have

tikkahunter

dodderangler wrote: »

Really? Seems to always have it's fair share of customers in there whenever I go in. And the cafe there always has a good few people in it aswell.

Its what the word is ,overheads are probably mental, so i would put the pressure on to get that gun sorted for yourself.

tikkahunter

lanber man wrote: »

Was there today and they couldn't give me €6.01 change. Was told the location just isn't great for business. It'll take a lot of coffees to pay for an rfd and all the other gear they have

**** things must be really bad

hexosan

tikkahunter wrote: »

You defo shouldn't have to fork out yourself, I am just asking as I have heard it won't be around much longer, so it would be just something I would keep my eye on

Are we talking days, weeks or months here

tikkahunter

hexosan wrote: »

Are we talking days, weeks or months here

Just heard soon , but you know yourself could have just started out by one of them saying to a customer that they were not going to good and the story got legs, but the fact they couldn't give that lad 6 euro change today is fairly damning.

lanber man

tikkahunter wrote: »

Just heard soon , but you know yourself could have just started out by one of them saying to a customer that they were not going to good and the story got legs, but the fact they couldn't give that lad 6 euro change today is fairly damning.

Can happen in any business I'm sure it wasn't that they hadn't got 6 quid between them but it's just not a great way to be going on

dodderangler

Two empty casings
You can see the damage on the sides of them after they ejected

ruger1894c

Are they steel cases if so this is the cases heating and expanding in the chamber has happend in my mates 223..switched back to brass cases no issues
theres no pressure issues as such no flattening of primer or no cratering on fireing pin impact..
id try a few brass cases and see if there is any change..

Cass

The photo tells me it's one of two things. Both are very serious and require you to stop shooting both the rifle and that ammo immediately.

Over pressure. The flattening of the primer, the small indentation of the firing pin, and the bending of the rim are all signs of over pressure. When the firing pin strikes the primer if there is over pressure from the load being too high the case is pushed back up, hard, against the bolt face. This has the effect of flattening the primer against the bolt face. It's visible from the lack of a gap between the primer and the primer pocket.

Also the indentation created by the firing pin. The smaller it is the higher the pressure as the pressure can "pop" the firing pin crater back out). On it's own it's a sign of over pressure, but combined with the flattened primer, the hard extractions, etc. all point to the wrong ammo.

The bend in the rim can also be caused by this over pressure. As the case is pushed back against the bolt face the extractor can cause either an indentation or bending of the rim in severe cases. Below is a picture of an extractor mark on a case. You won't find one on yours because the pressure is so high the rim is breaking rather than having an impression/indentation left on it.



You mentioned in another thread that you were having issues extracting the empties. Well combine that problem with the above and the rifle is screaming to you that something is wrong.

Poorly cut chamber. Another cause for the bend on the rim is a poor cut chamber. There is always the possibility that this rifle slipped through quality control and the chamber is rough or poorly cut leaving a burr or some imperfection in it that is causing this.

However given all the other signs above i'd be more inclined to look at the ammo first, but cannot stress enough to have the chamber checked by a proper gunsmith even if using other ammo.

Deaf git

If you haven't already gone back to the shop-
Undo the action screws and lift out action and barrel. If there is any looseness between barrel & receiver it needs a gunsmith. I emphasise GUNSMITH, not some goby shiite with mole grips and vice.
Next have a look at the tip of the extractor claw on the face of the bolt, it should be nicely ground to an angle to allow the claw slide over the lip of the cartridge as the bolt closes. If you have an undamaged case try loading and ejecting it. Does it get sticky on extraction? Is the unfired case damaged?
I'm not familiar with your gun but some makers stamp the last few digits of the serial number on the bolt. If there are numbers compare to the serial number. You wouldn't be the last guy to leave a shop with mismatched bolt & rifle.
Don't fire this rifle until you are sure all is right, having a few thousands psi so close to hands & face demands respect.

Nekarsulm

I suppose it's highly unlikely, but you haven't been sold 5.56 ammo by any chance?

tikkahunter

Nekarsulm wrote: »

I suppose it's highly unlikely, but you haven't been sold 5.56 ammo by any chance?

The cheap stuff the lad was sold was really 5.56 and not .223 .Looks like it's done the gun a mischief from jamming up on him the last time .Dodder I would look for all the details of what checks and work where done on the gun and who done it and verify with that person before you take it back,as you said you paid a lot for it and for to have problems early doors is bad news.Looks like the case is swelled up in the chamber and the bolt is doing that damage Tring to drag it out.

Cass

From post 5 to 9.

Nekarsulm

Cass wrote: »

From post 5 to 9.

Must reread thread before typing!
Tried ch ambering an empty 5.56 in a tikka I have, and it would have taken force to put it the last 8 mm. Was some of the blanks the Army leave scattered around the Curragh.

juice1304

Nekarsulm wrote: »

Must reread thread before typing!
Tried ch ambering an empty 5.56 in a tikka I have, and it would have taken force to put it the last 8 mm. Was some of the blanks the Army leave scattered around the Curragh.

That also would have been because it was already fired and so fire formed to the chamber of the rifle it was fired from.

EWQuinn

Loose barrel, also known as the mother of all headspace problems. I'm sure its a decent company so hope it works out for you.

Or, maybe I better say, I hope its backed by a decent warranty and sure hope it works out, u shouldn't have to pay. The stuff I'm seeing in the OP pics normally happens with gas guns, is this a bolt gun??

Pressure signs are really hard to judge but the hard ejection and the case rim damage is, well, kind of a dead give away for pressure and/or chamber problem. Yeah could be an ammo problem, but a loose barrel is a major fail and tops it all off - mucho danger no shoot.

Anyway, best of luck!

J.R.

dodderangler wrote: »

Really? Seems to always have it's fair share of customers in there whenever I go in. And the cafe there always has a good few people in it aswell.

Did this shop you bought the rifle in ever sort out the problem for you?