N5 - Ballaghaderreen to Scramoge [underway]

DumbBrunette

marno21 wrote: »

11 months for this makes me cry at how long the Galway N6 Ring Road is going to take.

Anyone know has an oral hearing been held for the N5 scheme? Or is it still due to be held before November? I thought they were mandatory for a project of this size

marno21

DumbBrunette wrote: »

Anyone know has an oral hearing been held for the N5 scheme? Or is it still due to be held before November? I thought they were mandatory for a project of this size

I don't believe there was one.

It's surprising as I thought the usual suspects would be all over this one.

Donegal Storm

Anyone know do ABP have a specific infrastructure person/team or are all planning appeals treated the same? The number of SHD applications is clearly causing issues recently with a number of appeals missing deadlines. With housing apps only going to increase in the next few years they'd want to sort themselves out or hire some extra staff

user1842

I really hope this does not go the way of the N26

newtown13

Irish Independent were reporting at the weekend that a oral hearing was due to take place in October on this one

macker16

October 10th oral hearing

spacetweek

What happened to the planning decision? Dependent on the hearing outcome?

Limerick74

Any news from today’s Oral Hearing?

user1842

It would be nice if they would update their website with the current status:

http://www.roscommoncoco.ie/en/Services/Roads/Publications-and-Information/N5-Ballaghaderreen-to-Scramoge-Road-Project/

marno21

I always find it sad when you see a story like this that involves a road that's being held up for no reason other than political incompetence

https://www.rte.ie/news/connacht/2018/1011/1002599-roscommon/

lotusm

Any news on this has anyone heard?

Trafficroad

Anyone hear anything yet????? Decision????

marno21

Decision on this was due yesterday. Delayed again?

marno21

According to this article, ABP will make their decision "sometime in the New Year".

http://www.mayonews.ie/news/32910-ballina-councillor-slams-doom-and-gloom-about-the-n26

joujoujou

lol!

Which New Year I wonder? 2019? 2020? :P

marno21

joujoujou wrote: »

lol!

Which New Year I wonder? 2019? 2020? :P

Whenever it is, 13 months to make a decision on a 35km single carriageway project is scandalously long. There wasn't that much backlash to this project. I'd be horrified to think at how long the M6 Galway project will take.

user1842

Why the hell does An Bord Pleanála lie and say:

Status: Case is due to be decided by 08/11/2018

Why even bother noting a date. They should just say, whenever we feel like it.

That is crap news for the N26 too, another exceptionally poor road for a primary route.

joujoujou

And don't forget this thread started at the end of May 2015. :eek:

More than 3 years moving papers left to right and back again plus issuing false statements and useless announcements. I wish I had a job over there.

MayoSalmon

joujoujou wrote: »

And don't forget this thread started at the end of May 2015. :eek:

More than 3 years moving papers left to right and back again plus issuing false statements and useless announcements. I wish I had a job over there.

Be lucky if the road was built by May 2025

marno21

Tender out for archaelogical consultancy services for this project

https://irl.eu-supply.com/app/rfq/publicpurchase_frameset.asp?PID=138340&B=ETENDERS_SIMPLE&PS=1&PP=ctm/Supplier/publictenders

user1842

marno21 wrote: »

Tender out for archaelogical consultancy services for this project

https://irl.eu-supply.com/app/rfq/publicpurchase_frameset.asp?PID=138340&B=ETENDERS_SIMPLE&PS=1&PP=ctm/Supplier/publictenders

Does this mean they believe the planning decision will be positive?

marno21

user1842 wrote: »

Does this mean they believe the planning decision will be positive?

I should have mentioned also that this is only a PIN (Prior Information Notice), the tender will likely be published if/when it's approved.

€6.5m for archaelogical services shows what's involved here.

dubhthach

marno21 wrote: »

Tender out for archaelogical consultancy services for this project

https://irl.eu-supply.com/app/rfq/publicpurchase_frameset.asp?PID=138340&B=ETENDERS_SIMPLE&PS=1&PP=ctm/Supplier/publictenders

that'll be some contract given the amount of archaeological sites that might be found on route, and how important the whole area was from Iron age to throughout the early and late middle ages.

marno21

user1842 wrote: »

Does this mean they believe the planning decision will be positive?

Likely because:

a) they expect it to be green lit as you say
b) there is a shortage of shovel ready road projects and this is one of the most advanced and they don't want to hang around
c) as the post above mine says, this will be a massive archaelogical job and will take time, and they don't want to hang around in getting it started.

marno21

Roscommon Council have issued a tender for consultancy services for Phases 5-7 of this scheme (advance works/tender, construction & completion/handover)

https://irl.eu-supply.com/app/rfq/publicpurchase_frameset.asp?PID=140132&B=ETENDERS_SIMPLE&PS=1&PP=ctm/Supplier/publictenders

HabibiLibnen

Does this mean it could start in late 2019 once the tendering process is complete?

marno21

HabibiLibnen wrote: »

Does this mean it could start in late 2019 once the tendering process is complete?

I'd imagine 2020 for a start as it's quite a long scheme at 33km and the advance works will take a while.

It doesn't have much competition for funding in 2020/2021.

HabibiLibnen

All of a sudden there seems to be a real acceleration in the progress of various schemes. In fairness to TII, they have been working quietly in the background on very tight budgets to see the 2 N5 projects, N22, N4 etc etc reach shovel ready status. It's good news for the regions and the sense that finally the country is back in business.

marno21

HabibiLibnen wrote: »

All of a sudden there seems to be a real acceleration in the progress of various schemes. In fairness to TII, they have been working quietly in the background on very tight budgets to see the 2 N5 projects, N22, N4 etc etc reach shovel ready status. It's good news for the regions and the sense that finally the country is back in business.

To be fair to TII, they have always done a good job given the under-resourcing.

They're going to have their work cut out to get projects shovel ready for 2020-2022 starts. All major projects currently with planning are currently at tender, all that's left is this scheme (which presumably will be approved) and the M28 which is being held up by a legal challenge.

HabibiLibnen

I'd imagine 2020 - 2022 transport budgets will be swallowed up by Metro Link and Bus Connects. Two projects years overdue. If even 5 minor schemes commenced each year during that period, it would make our road network much safer overall.

HabibiLibnen

Does anyone have any idea when a decision on this might be announced? Is it possible to contact ABP and inquire as to a scheduled date?

HabibiLibnen

I followed my own advice and contacted ABP today via email.

They didn't delay in responding. Both the CPO and full Planning Permission have been granted.

It's neither signed nor dated so presumably this isn't an official announcement but there, we have it!

marno21

Good stuff. thank you for that.

We now have ONE major project with planning permission not at tender. Our road network won't know what hit it.

RedDevil55

Midwest radio are reporting it now...

http://midwestradio.ie/index.php/news/28647-an-bord-pleanala-gives-the-green-light-to-road-development-of-the-n5-ballaghaderreen-and-scramogue

marno21

Senator Feighan says that this is a dangerous stretch of road, which is extremely busy, so this work will be welcomed to the many people who use it.

LOL

HabibiLibnen

marno21 wrote: »

LOL

It's busy relative to the appalling standard of the road that links Ballina, Westport etc to Dublin.

It's a scary road to drive on during wet weather on a Friday evening, especially with the bad bends and junctions at Frenchpark and the Athlone - Sligo road at Tulsk.

I believe Denis Naughten acquired funding for this road last year which meant once planning was approved, it would be ring fenced for progression to tender. Might this happen this year with construction to commence in 2020?

RedDevil55

It's been a positive couple of months for the road network in Mayo. N5 Westport - Turlough scheduled to start September this year. The new bridge at Cloongullane has finally got planning permission and now this scheme.

Hopefully there's no unexpected economic downturn that stops the shovels hitting the ground.

marno21

HabibiLibnen wrote: »

It's busy relative to the appalling standard of the road that links Ballina, Westport etc to Dublin.

It's a scary road to drive on during wet weather on a Friday evening, especially with the bad bends and junctions at Frenchpark and the Athlone - Sligo road at Tulsk.

I believe Denis Naughten acquired funding for this road last year which meant once planning was approved, it would be ring fenced for progression to tender. Might this happen this year with construction to commence in 2020?

I have no interest in starting an argument with you because we are on the same page but relative to the rest of the national primary network this is a quiet road. It carries approx 5k AADT per day. There are large sections of the national primary road network that are also shocking and significantly busier.

This road is where it is purely for political reasons, from the days of Kenny and Ring.

There was an archaeological services tender issues in late last year that should start this year now that it's approved. Archaeological works will take more than a year so I'd be guessing the earliest this will start is Q1 2021 or so. The fact that there is currently zero competition apart from the M28 will be a significant help in getting it to construction quick.

MayoSalmon

HabibiLibnen wrote:

It's a scary road to drive on during wet weather on a Friday evening, especially with the bad bends and junctions at Frenchpark and the Athlone - Sligo road at Tulsk.

Calm down on the dramatics like...perfectly fine stretch of road just windy is all.

Once this is done along with the N4 Mullingar to Longford the drive from Mayo to Dublin will be dare I say it joyful.

road_high

MayoSalmon wrote: »

Calm down on the dramatics like...perfectly fine stretch of road just windy is all.

Once this is done along with the N4 Mullingar to Longford the drive from Mayo to Dublin will be dare I say it joyful.

I drove the stretch from Strokestown to Tulsk lately and I was actually pleasantly surprised- had they done a few realignments and widening already to the existing N5? I didn’t think it overly bad tbh. Could they not have upgraded the existing fully rather than new green field build?
The old N9 or existing N24 were/are far worse routes for comparison sake.

HabibiLibnen

If your definition of 'a perfectly fine stretch of road' for a national primary route is circa 35 kms of no hard shoulder, poor vertical and horizontal alignments, severe bends, dozens of junctions, crossroads, private house entrances etc, well more power to you.

A simple Google search of 'accident N5 Roscommon' will prove my point. Road safety is the number one purpose of this scheme, hence the low spec single carriageway design with roundabouts at junctions.

And as you alluded to, this will benefit Mayo drivers and the Mayo economy far more than Roscommon as the N4 and M6/N61 carry the bulk of traffic while also serving the main population centres of the county.

RedDevil55

HabibiLibnen wrote: »

If your definition of 'a perfectly fine stretch of road' for a national primary route is circa 35 kms of no hard shoulder, poor vertical and horizontal alignments, severe bends, dozens of junctions, crossroads, private house entrances etc, well more power to you.

A simple Google search of 'accident N5 Roscommon' will prove my point. Road safety is the number one purpose of this scheme, hence the low spec single carriageway design with roundabouts at junctions.

And as you alluded to, this will benefit Mayo drivers and the Mayo economy far more than Roscommon as the N4 and M6/N61 carry the bulk of traffic while also serving the main population centres of the county.

Over the last year I've driven Dublin to Mayo regularly on Friday evenings. In that time I've come across 2 accidents on this stretch of road. On one of the occasions all traffic was diverted from Sramogue down to Roscommon town and back up the N61 to Tulsk.

In the same length of time I've only come across 1 minor accident on the Mullingar to Longford section of the N4, despite it carrying far more traffic.

Aontachtoir

RedDevil55 wrote: »

Hopefully there's no unexpected economic downturn that stops the shovels hitting the ground.

Suddenly, Brexit!

marno21

Aontachtoir wrote: »

Suddenly, Brexit!

Unless the Capital budget is decimated ala 2011, this will go ahead. Brexit is unlikely to yield the type of deficit created in Ireland between 2007 and 2011, unless it's absolutely catastrophic and if that's the case we'll have bigger fish to fry than upgrading the N5.

yew_tree

marno21 wrote: »

I have no interest in starting an argument with you because we are on the same page but relative to the rest of the national primary network this is a quiet road. It carries approx 5k AADT per day. There are large sections of the national primary road network that are also shocking and significantly busier.

This road is where it is purely for political reasons, from the days of Kenny and Ring.

There was an archaeological services tender issues in late last year that should start this year now that it's approved. Archaeological works will take more than a year so I'd be guessing the earliest this will start is Q1 2021 or so. The fact that there is currently zero competition apart from the M28 will be a significant help in getting it to construction quick.

It’s Mayo’s link to the east coast. I am
Biased being from and living in Mayo but it’s possible pressure was put on by the US multinationals in the county as reported in the past goods were getting damaged by road transport. You or most of the country don’t care but without these multinationals you might as well close the county.

marno21

marno21 wrote: »

LOL

You need to consider it as one long bridge. There may not be much traffic on it but we still need it to get to the other side . Now if we could get another bridge to Sligo town!!

HabibiLibnen

road_high wrote: »

I drove the stretch from Strokestown to Tulsk lately and I was actually pleasantly surprised- had they done a few realignments and widening already to the existing N5? I didn’t think it overly bad tbh. Could they not have upgraded the existing fully rather than new green field build?
The old N9 or existing N24 were/are far worse routes for comparison sake.

The section from Tulsk to Strokestown was resurfaced a few years ago, which in fairness was a big improvement. There was a section of circa 1km filter lanes and two plus one added halfway between Tulsk and Strokestown about a decade ago or more. This is the only section along the 35km route that allows for overtaking.

TII could not upgrade the existing route because it passes through Rathcroghan which is littered with Celtic archaeological sites and is a national monument. It passes through 4 towns/villages and has too many junctions.

Regardless of this, any upgrade had to involve a wide bypass of Rathcroghan and its 60 national monuments. Finally, you compared the current N5 to a now redundant N9, so a false comparison.

There's a reason why all the roads to Dublin are assigned first, anticlockwise from N1/M1 to N11/M11. These are the vital arteries to our primate capital city which, whether we like it or not, generates circa 40% of GDP.

Safe, efficient, engineered roads to Dublin have to take presidence over all other routes. The good news is most of this has already happened, but legacy sections of the N2, N3, N4, N5, N11 and indirect to Dublin N21 are all that's left.

In maybe 5 or so years, the N4 and N5 will be built to a safe (not necessarily efficient) standard and hopefully all that will remain, in terms of road safety on routes to Dublin, will be the Slane bypass.

road_high

I was on the best part of the road so, fair enough! There is indeed a decent t climbing lane out in. We need more of thiose, NRA seem very averse to them. I think they’re great

BelfastVanMan

road_high wrote: »

I was on the best part of the road so, fair enough! There is indeed a decent t climbing lane out in. We need more of thiose, NRA seem very averse to them. I think they’re great

That 2+1 bit you are talking about is going to be a very high standard of R or L road, when this N5 project is finished.

user1842

This is great news. I would agree it is not the busiest section of our primary network but it is an extremely dangerous section of road. In reality the 100kph speed limit is far too high on some of the sections.

I am not sure why so many roundabouts are needed on the proposed new road though.