The Irish language is failing.

Dughorm

briany wrote: »

Maths and English become increasingly specialised and abstract toward the end of secondary education. By the time that kicks in, most students should know whether they're interested in it and should be allowed to elect not to do it or continue on. Compulsory Maths and English should deal with making students literate, numerate, and basically able to deal with most real world scenarios they're likely to encounter related to the two subjects e.g. being able to calculate a tip, a set of fractions and having a good grasp of spelling, grammar, sentence structure, along with a decent vocabulary.

So there should be compulsory schooling for the basics of English and Maths, but none for Irish, as one cannot really be functional while being illiterate and innumerate, but one can be functional without any knowledge of Irish.

So if I read this correctly, you think there should be a mandatory life-skills English and Maths but the Shakespeare or Functions or whatever should be optional. Funnily enough, I think a conversational Irish should be mandatory and the literature should be optional. We happen to agree on more than we disagree on.

Un Croissant

I'm 25.

Not religious.

Pro Europe.

Pro minorities.*



*Which is good for tipp, seeing as he is one, and a rapidly diminishing one.

FunLover18

briany wrote: »

Maths and English become increasingly specialised and abstract toward the end of secondary education. By the time that kicks in, most students should know whether they're interested in it and should be allowed to elect not to do it or continue on. Compulsory Maths and English should deal with making students literate, numerate, and basically able to deal with most real world scenarios they're likely to encounter related to the two subjects e.g. being able to calculate a tip, a set of fractions and having a good grasp of spelling, grammar, sentence structure, along with a decent vocabulary.

So there should be compulsory schooling for the basics of English and Maths, but none for Irish, as one cannot really be functional while being illiterate and innumerate, but one can be functional without any knowledge of Irish.

Interestingly, at least to me, maths and English are usually always brought up when the subject of Irish being made optional arises and yet, as far as I can tell Irish is actually the only subject which students taking the LC are obliged to take.

Taken from the Department of Education website:

Students following the Leaving Certificate (Established) programme are required to study at least five subjects, one of which must be Irish unless an exemption applies

No mention of maths or English, so I assume these are made compulsory by schools possibly because of university requirements. I keep meaning to investigate further. I'm in two minds as whether there should be any compulsory subjects for LC.

Aineoil

I'm 49 nearly 50 (only 3 months to go now before the big birthday).

Not religious.

Pro Europe.

Pro minorities.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

FunLover18 wrote: »

Interestingly, at least to me, maths and English are usually always brought up when the subject of Irish being made optional arises and yet, as far as I can tell Irish is actually the only subject which students taking the LC are obliged to take.

Taken from the Department of Education website:



No mention of maths or English, so I assume these are made compulsory by schools possibly because of university requirements. I keep meaning to investigate further. I'm in two minds as whether there should be any compulsory subjects for LC.

That's a bit of a moot point, because there's nothing stoping a student from merely going to the exam, writing their number on the exam worksheet, handign it in and walking back out again.

I don't see the poitn of any compulsroy subject beyond the afe of 15. At that age, you should know that you're not interested in. In the case of Maths and English, if you don;t have the nessecary lifeskills at that age, somethign has gone seriously wrong and smiply carrying on will not change anything.

Enjoy Heroin Responsibly

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

That's a bit of a moot point, because there's nothing stoping a student from merely going to the exam, writing their number on the exam worksheet, handign it in and walking back out again..

One can also not turn up for the exam.

One is still required to turn up for the classes in the 2/3 years leading up to the exam though.

dr.fuzzenstein

Anyone mentioned "we're living in the British Isles" yet?
There's a cat amongst the pigeons!

briany

Enjoy Heroin Responsibly wrote: »

One can also not turn up for the exam.

One is still required to turn up for the classes in the 2/3 years leading up to the exam though.

You can not turn up for the classes, mentally, though. Stare out the window and all that.

tipparetops

PopePalpatine wrote: »

You make those sound like bad things.

I am NOT FUCKING Anglo-Irish, by the way, so your dumb stereotypes can go fuck off and die. My dad's parents are (or were, in the case of my late grandfather) fierce Sinn Féin supporters but couldn't give a toss about the Irish language as far as I could tell.

fierce sinn fein supporters, I love it.
So maybe you got the Anglo from your Moms side? :pac:

tipparetops

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

One out of four - and that was not being religious which statistically was a safe bet. Although i'm not sure what you mean by "pro minorities".

How about guessing what inspires me and what defines me and what I do by choice? Because that will tell you who I am.

So you are not religious, younger than 18 or over 30, you are against the EU and against minorities.

I thought you were not a patriot.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

tipparetops wrote: »

So you are not religious, younger than 18 or over 30, you are against the EU and against minorities.

I thought you were not a patriot.

One of those categories has been changed and another you still haven't clearly explained.

Dunno how any of that pegs me as a patriot (or not), but none of it actually tells you anything about who me any more than the languge I speak.

Un Croissant

So.. does speaking Irish make you a patriot?

Or does being religious, anti eu, under 18 or over 30, and anti minorities make you a patriot?

Or does speaking Irish make you all of the above?

It's all very confusing. Tipp?

tipparetops

Un Croissant wrote: »

So.. does speaking Irish make you a patriot?

Or does being religious, anti eu, under 18 or over 30, and anti minorities make you a patriot?

Or does speaking Irish make you all of the above?

It's all very confusing. Tipp?

I know you feel like you are helping, but you are not.
I enjoy leading posters down the path I choose for them, making them look silly.
Now i have dealt with two silly gooses, its your turn.

What you have just posted above, what language is this. Gibberish.
I cannot answer something that makes no sense.

For the clarity of all posters:
People who speak Irish are Irish Celts.
People who speak English only are Anglo Irish.

anglos have more in common with some of our northern brethren.
I think posters like you embrace that, your choice.

tipparetops

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

One of those categories has been changed and another you still haven't clearly explained.

Dunno how any of that pegs me as a patriot (or not), but none of it actually tells you anything about who me any more than the languge I speak.

I have not changed my categories, maybe you should read other posts more thoroughly.
Admit it, I was right about you some posts above.
How did I guess, most young people are like clones now, very little personality.

An Ciarraioch

tipparetops wrote: »

I know you feel like you are helping, but you are not.
I enjoy leading posters down the path I choose for them, making them look silly.
Now i have dealt with two silly gooses, its your turn.

What you have just posted above, what language is this. Gibberish.
I cannot answer something that makes no sense.

For the clarity of all posters:
People who speak Irish are Irish Celts.
People who speak English only are Anglo Irish.

anglos have more in common with some of our northern brethren.
I think posters like you embrace that, your choice.

Mmmm, by that logic, 99% of Scots are semi-English, which last month emphatically disproved. It's known that one segment of the brain governs linguistic skills, so many people are simply poor at all languages, full stop, and posters who fall into that category have said they were better at maths and science. The idea, however, that someone who enjoyed learning French, Spanish etc would baulk at going back to Irish seems more perplexing, which is why the thread is its current length.

tipparetops

An Ciarraioch wrote: »

Mmmm, by that logic, 99% of Scots are semi-English, which last month emphatically disproved. It's known that one segment of the brain governs linguistic skills, so many people are simply poor at all languages, full stop, and posters who fall into that category have said they were better at maths and science. The idea, however, that someone who enjoyed learning French, Spanish etc would baulk at going back to Irish seems more perplexing, which is why the thread is its current length.

They are as the referendum showed.

I have stated that I can understand if people cannot learn the language,
but there is posters here who are against the language and i am not taking that sh1t. Either should you.
Irish should be mandatory for your leaving cert, its not flippin rocket science.
Do you not remember what the foundation and ordinary papers were like,
be fair.
If we all take the attitude to not fight back against people like this the language will be dead.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

tipparetops wrote: »

I have not changed my categories, maybe you should read other posts more thoroughly.
Admit it, I was right about you some posts above.
How did I guess, most young people are like clones now, very little personality.

Your inital post said "Europe", the second one said "EU" - that's a different question. You STILL haven't explained what you mean by "pro minorities". Nor have you explained how any of these pegs me as a patriot or not. In any case, none of this tells you anything specifci or important about me.

To think I am shaped simply by my country of origin or the language I speak is as much a fallacy as stating it's defined by my astrological starsign.

dlouth15

tipparetops wrote: »

Irish should be mandatory for your leaving cert, its not flippin rocket science.

Of course. Because mandatory Irish in the leaving cert has been wonderfully successful over the decades in getting the public at large to speak Irish in their daily lives.

tipparetops

dlouth15 wrote: »

Of course. Because mandatory Irish in the leaving cert has been wonderfully successful over the decades in getting the public at large to speak Irish in their daily lives.

That is not the point, we all have to do things we do not like in life.
Some people would love the idea of picking any 6 subjects for their LC which is a disgrace,
everyone doing Home Ec, Art, Technology, Design etc for the easy grades.

It has not been successful but who is that down to , teachers, parents and students.
Teachers who cannot speak it, parents who do not care and students who want the easy life.

RecordStraight

tipparetops wrote: »

That is not the point, we all have to do things we do not like in life.

It kind of is the point. The current system has failed spectacularly. Yet suggestions by FG to change it caused uproar.

dlouth15

tipparetops wrote: »

That is not the point, we all have to do things we do not like in life.
Some people would love the idea of picking any 6 subjects for their LC which is a disgrace,
everyone doing Home Ec, Art, Technology, Design etc for the easy grades.

It has not been successful but who is that down to , teachers, parents and students.
Teachers who cannot speak it, parents who do not care and students who want the easy life.

Advertising slogan:

The Irish Language - because we all have to do things we do not like.

tipparetops

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Your inital post said "Europe", the second one said "EU" - that's a different question. You STILL haven't explained what you mean by "pro minorities". Nor have you explained how any of these pegs me as a patriot or not. In any case, none of this tells you anything specifci or important about me.

To think I am shaped simply by my country of origin or the language I speak is as much a fallacy as stating it's defined by my astrological starsign.

so you are saying you are not shaped by your country or your language.

Look I think its best to not post at each other anymore, you are not being honest and so there is no point.
I asked you if you were pro minorities, I assume you are and will not answer yes as by doing so you will know you have been nobbled.
Because Irish speakers are in the minority.

tipparetops

dlouth15 wrote: »

Advertising slogan:

The Irish Language - because we all have to do things we do not like.

Answer my whole post, if we are to discuss this like equals than answer all my post.

tipparetops

RecordStraight wrote: »

It kind of is the point. The current system has failed spectacularly. Yet suggestions by FG to change it caused uproar.

answer all my post or do not answer.

dlouth15

tipparetops wrote: »

Answer my whole post, if we are to discuss this like equals than answer all my post.

I can't really see your point. Your point seems to be that Irish should be compulsory because we all have to do thing we don't like in life. But surely there should be some other reason than we don't like it. You don't seem to care that it hasn't been a successful policy over the years.

tipparetops

dlouth15 wrote: »

I can't really see your point. Your point seems to be that Irish should be compulsory because we all have to do thing we don't like in life. But surely there should be some other reason than we don't like it. You don't seem to care that it hasn't been a successful policy over the years.

Your still not answering the whole post, if you answer it properly I will answer the above post.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

tipparetops wrote: »

so you are saying you are not shaped by your country or your language.

... in the same way it's not shaped by my starsign, as I said; that's correct, Yes.

Look I think its best to not post at each other anymore, you are not being honest and so there is no point.
I asked you if you were pro minorities, I assume you are and will not answer yes as by doing so you will know you have been nobbled.
Because Irish speakers are in the minority.

Again, you don't define pro-minority.

Irish speakers are a minority and I support their right to speak Irish.
Teenagers are a minority and I support their right to study what they choose to study.
Pedophiles are a minority but I do not support their right to have sex with children.

You're going to have to be more specific.

Grayson

tipparetops wrote: »

They are as the referendum showed.

I have stated that I can understand if people cannot learn the language,
but there is posters here who are against the language and i am not taking that sh1t. Either should you.
Irish should be mandatory for your leaving cert, its not flippin rocket science.
Do you not remember what the foundation and ordinary papers were like,
be fair.
If we all take the attitude to not fight back against people like this the language will be dead.

You are the reason the language will die. People don't hate languages. Why should they? It's not like I can suddenly develop a hatred of Russian. People may dislike how a language sounds but that's not hatred.

I have a friend who thinks a particular Irish (Non traditional) band are the best in the world. He's always talking about them. When he's around here having a few drinks, he puts them on. When we're in a car, he puts them on. I don't particularly like them but I live with it.

Now imagine 14 years of constantly having to listen to that music. You're forced to learn it in school. Now imagine some idiot who keeps telling you that you're not Irish and don't deserve to call yourself Irish if you don't like it. How much would you hate that band? How much would you hate you friend who kept playing the same set of songs. And would you willingly volunteer how

People don't hate Irish. People hate people like you. People who belittle them for not liking their band. People who have twisted superiority complexes. Maybe they have twisted inferiority complexes and need a reason to believe they're better than everyone else.

And by association they begin to avoid the Irish language. Why would they learn it? to talk to people like you? They don't want to talk to you in English. And your constant yammering on about how they'e not really Irish isn't going to remake them like the language any more.

tipparetops

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

... in the same way it's not shaped by my starsign, as I said; that's correct, Yes.



Again, you don't define pro-minority.

Teenagers are a minority - I support their right to study what they choose to study.

Thanks for more lies and dodging.
I declare you a hypocrite and nobbled.

dlouth15

tipparetops wrote: »

Your still not answering the whole post, if you answer it properly I will answer the above post.

What point do you feel I have not addressed?

You made two points in that post. One of which was that Irish should remain compulsory because "we all have to do things we don't like in life".

The other point was that although it was not successful that was not the fault of the system but everyone participating in the system. That is non-nonsensical. If we brought in any subject other than irish and everyone failed it when they seemed to be able to do reasonably well in other subjects we would not blame the students for that.