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8th Amendment

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Comments

  • #1832
    Black Menorca
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,572 ✭✭✭Black Menorca


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I don't have any to hand. It was a thought experiment, recall the question you answered earlier in this post

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=96010494&postcount=1825

    I'm just adding the two elements of the questions together to create the full statement.

    Without the evidence to back you up, I see no reason to fault the 8th.


  • #1833
    Milana Sticky Klutz
    Posts: 24,798 ✭✭✭✭ Milana Sticky Klutz


    Black Menorca wrote: »
    Without the evidence to back you up, I see no reason to fault the 8th.

    The question has the conditional built in. Note the term 'if' at the beginning of the question to which you answered no to.


  • #1834
    Black Menorca
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,572 ✭✭✭Black Menorca


    Deleted User wrote: »
    The question has the conditional built in. Note the term 'if' at the beginning of the question to which you answered no to.

    Come back to me with evidence and we'll get into it.


  • #1835
    Milana Sticky Klutz
    Posts: 24,798 ✭✭✭✭ Milana Sticky Klutz


    Black Menorca wrote: »
    Come back to me with evidence and we'll get into it.

    That's not a thought experiment.


  • #1836
    Black Menorca
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,572 ✭✭✭Black Menorca


    Deleted User wrote: »
    That's not a thought experiment.

    Spot on.


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  • #1837
    SpaceTime
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,085 ✭✭✭SpaceTime


    Not replying to this thread anymore - round & round in circles and it just makes me feel more and more like packing my stuff & grabbing a plane somewhere a little less bound by dogma.


  • #1838
    am946745
    Closed Accounts Posts: 676 ✭✭✭am946745


    SpaceTime wrote: »
    Not replying to this thread anymore - round & round in circles and it just makes me feel more and more like packing my stuff & grabbing a plane somewhere a little less bound by dogma.

    Being pro-life is not a dogmatic stance, its a reasonable stance.


  • #1839
    Black Menorca
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,572 ✭✭✭Black Menorca


    SpaceTime wrote: »
    Not replying to this thread anymore - round & round in circles and it just makes me feel more and more like packing my stuff & grabbing a plane somewhere a little less bound by dogma.

    There's a big world out there to be seen. Happy trails, if you decide to go.


  • #1840
    Black Menorca
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,572 ✭✭✭Black Menorca


    am946745 wrote: »
    Being pro-life is not a dogmatic stance, its a reasonable stance.

    I thought he/she was talking about the abortion lobby's dogma.


  • #1841
    anothernight
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,539 ✭✭✭anothernight


    SpaceTime wrote: »
    Not replying to this thread anymore - round & round in circles and it just makes me feel more and more like packing my stuff & grabbing a plane somewhere a little less bound by dogma.

    You won't regret it. :p

    I grew up in a country where abortion has been legal for decades, but my family were pro-life for religious reasons. Then we moved to Ireland... and saw why our opinion on the matter was wrong. Ironic eh?

    Nothing quite like having your very religious mother say "it's illegal even in cases of rape? That's barbaric."


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  • #1842
    volchitsa
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,214 ✭✭✭✭volchitsa


    Black Menorca wrote: »
    Terminations happen in Irish hospitals when and where necessary, when the mother's like is under direct physical threat.
    So should terminations of mothers happen when the fetus' life is under direct physical threat?
    Seeing as you claim they have equal rights, that is.

    Here's a real-life example where the father was asked to choose which of the two to save - but of course in Ireland the father can't actually choose, since it's the constitution that decides. I'd say both would likely die while the lawyers were being consulted - yet another reason to get rid of the 8th.
    http://doc2doc.bmj.com/forums/open-clinical_medical-ethics_should-saved-mother-child

    "If a woman cannot stand in a public space and say, without fear of consequences, that men cannot be women, then women have no rights at all." Helen Joyce



  • #1843
    Black Menorca
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,572 ✭✭✭Black Menorca


    volchitsa wrote: »
    So should terminations of mothers happen when the fetus' life is under direct physical threat?
    Seeing as you claim they have equal rights, that is.

    Here's a real-life example where the father was asked to choose which of the two to save - but of course in Ireland the father can't actually choose, since it's the constitution that decides. I'd say both would likely die while the lawyers were being consulted - yet another reason to get rid of the 8th.
    http://doc2doc.bmj.com/forums/open-clinical_medical-ethics_should-saved-mother-child

    Really, give us a real, documented example instead of a third hand account on Q & A forum.

    seriously.


  • #1844
    volchitsa
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,214 ✭✭✭✭volchitsa


    Black Menorca wrote: »
    Really, give us a real, documented example instead of a third hand account on Q & A forum.

    seriously.
    The question was about whether you think it should potentially happen, not what you think about individual cases. That was just to give an example of the kind of situation that might arise.

    But that's grand. It's clear as day that you obviously realize you can't reply honestly without destroying the entire basis of your own argument. I've finished with you for now. :D

    "If a woman cannot stand in a public space and say, without fear of consequences, that men cannot be women, then women have no rights at all." Helen Joyce



  • #1845
    Black Menorca
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,572 ✭✭✭Black Menorca


    volchitsa wrote: »
    The question was about whether you think it should potentially happen, not what you think about individual cases. That was just to give an example of the kind of situation that might arise.

    But that's grand. It's clear as day that you obviously realize you can't reply honestly without destroying the entire basis of your own argument. I've finished with you for now. :D

    Sound.

    The 8th Stands, for now. And I will defend it if it comes under attack. :)


  • #1846
    PopePalpatine
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,176 ✭✭✭✭PopePalpatine


    I can't help but think that involves re-visiting the events of 6th July 1994 in Buswell's Hotel, and hoping that the van doesn't get caught this time.
    Black Menorca wrote: »
    I thought he/she was talking about the abortion lobby's dogma.

    20571795.jpg


  • #1847
    Black Menorca
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,572 ✭✭✭Black Menorca


    That one went way over my head.


  • #1848
    pmasterson95
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,074 ✭✭✭pmasterson95


    Black Menorca wrote: »
    That one went way over my head.

    That does happen quite a lot to you I have noticed.


  • #1849
    Milana Sticky Klutz
    Posts: 24,798 ✭✭✭✭ Milana Sticky Klutz


    Black Menorca wrote: »
    Come back to me with evidence and we'll get into it.
    Deleted User wrote: »
    That's not a thought experiment.
    Black Menorca wrote: »
    Spot on.

    The point of thought experiments is that we don't actually need to see people suffer, we don't have to record and see pain for us to understand it can occur. Using logic and reasoning, we can reach decisions without the need for actual disaster.

    Russia 1975
    General: "If we do fire a nuclear warhead at the USA, do you not think there will be an almost apocalyptic war, with devastating consequences for the planet?"
    Politician: "Come back to me with evidence and we'll get into it".

    Isn't really an acceptable (or humane) way to attempt to understand things.

    Just as several cases were predicted (X,Y) long before they occurred, we can test the conditions of the 8th that may bring about situations that were unintended. You seem to be refusing to do this though?


  • #1850
    Gael23
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,108 ✭✭✭✭Gael23


    eire4 wrote: »
    I would say yes we will and can see it happening within the lifetime of the next government if said government proves stable enough.

    Thats the problem. I think the next government will be as unstable as this of the 80s and fall in a matter of months.


  • #1851
    Loafing Oaf
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,224 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    Gael23 wrote: »
    Thats the problem. I think the next government will be as unstable as this of the 80s and fall in a matter of months.

    If the government is FG + Lab + Inds/minor parties you'd have to think they'd be keen to get the referendum out of the way as soon as possible though. I don't see why it couldn't be held within six months of a GE, which means it could be less than a year away if the election happens in October/November this year...


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  • #1852
    Black Menorca
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,572 ✭✭✭Black Menorca


    Best chance for maintaining the 8th would be an FG/FF grand coalition.


  • #1853
    eire4
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,970 ✭✭✭eire4


    Gael23 wrote: »
    Thats the problem. I think the next government will be as unstable as this of the 80s and fall in a matter of months.





    I think there is indeed a chance you may well be correct. I could see us having multiple general elections over a short period of time like we did in the early 80's. Hopefully not though as without a stable government I don't see a referendum being called.


  • #1854
    am946745
    Closed Accounts Posts: 676 ✭✭✭am946745


    Look what happens when you have on demand abortion.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3136010/Pregnant-woman-sacked-fundraising-firm-refusing-boss-s-demands-abortion.html


  • #1855
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,964 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    am946745 wrote: »
    Look what happens when you Work for a ****

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3136010/Pregnant-woman-sacked-fundraising-firm-refusing-boss-s-demands-abortion.html

    FYP


  • #1856
    pmasterson95
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,074 ✭✭✭pmasterson95


    am946745 wrote: »
    Look what happens when you have on demand abortion.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3136010/Pregnant-woman-sacked-fundraising-firm-refusing-boss-s-demands-abortion.html
    You can get 12k from a prick. Is getting 12k bad now?


  • #1857
    PopePalpatine
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,176 ✭✭✭✭PopePalpatine


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    FYP

    Which one, Paul Dacre or the asshole in this article?


  • #1858
    Not a NSA agent
    Closed Accounts Posts: 781 ✭✭✭Not a NSA agent


    am946745 wrote: »
    Look what happens when you have on demand abortion.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3136010/Pregnant-woman-sacked-fundraising-firm-refusing-boss-s-demands-abortion.html

    She didnt have an abortion and there was a tribunal over it.

    But if she wanted to have an abortion you are happy for her not to have that choice. All of a sudden being forced into something is bad.

    We dont have abortion on demand but my girlfriends boss can still do the same thing, remember you just take a weekend trip away?


  • #1859
    Black Menorca
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,572 ✭✭✭Black Menorca


    am946745 wrote: »
    Look what happens when you have on demand abortion.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3136010/Pregnant-woman-sacked-fundraising-firm-refusing-boss-s-demands-abortion.html

    Scary stuff.


  • #1860
    swampgas
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,622 ✭✭✭swampgas


    Black Menorca wrote: »
    Scary stuff.

    Why? She didn't have an abortion, because she had a choice.

    Does allowing women to make their own decisions scare you that much?

    Obviously you prefer the constitution to take away women's autonomy as soon as they become pregnant, because women can't be trusted to decide for themselves? So much better if Black Menorca and pals decide for them instead ...


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  • #1861
    pmasterson95
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,074 ✭✭✭pmasterson95


    Black Menorca wrote: »
    Scary stuff.

    Absolutely terrifying. That woman was in a situation where she had the choice to not listen to her boss and keep her baby. That woman should never have been given a choice. Absolute disgrace. Allowing a woman to decide to keep her baby. Women shouldnt be allowed think independently. Its there god given duty to birth babies they should never think they have a choice, its what they must do


This discussion has been closed.
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